← Women & ADHD
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- [00:00]
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- [00:27]
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- [01:28]
Sarah Collins
When I started the journey of trying to look for what was wrong with me, I did. I went for, you know, brain scans, I went for MRIs, I went for, you know, looking for tumors, but there was nothing there. You know, I think we look in the wrong places.
- [01:53]
Katie Weber
Hello and welcome to the Women and ADHD Podcast. I'm your host, Katie Weber. I was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 45 and it completely turned my world upside down. I've been looking back at so much of my life, school, jobs, my relationships, all of it with this new lens, and it has been nothing short of overwhelming. I quickly discovered I was not the only woman to have this experience. And now I interview other women who, like me, discovered in adulthood they have ADHD and are finally feeling like they understand who they are and how to best lean into their strengths, both professionally and personally. Well, hello there and welcome back. I'm so glad you've decided to join me. Here we are at episode 187 in which I interview Sarah Collins Sarah is an activist and entrepreneur. Having grown up in apartheid South Africa, Sarah has spent much of her life passionate about social justice and improving the welfare of others, especially regarding gender equality and environmental sustainability. In 2008, Sarah founded Wonderbag, a portable non electric slow cooker designed to retain heat and continue cooking food after being brought to a boil. This product has enormous versatility, especially for communities in crisis where electricity and fuel are either scarce or non existent. Wonderbag has won dozens of environmental and leadership achievements over the years and was voted one of the world's top 50 genius companies by Time magazine in 2018. Sarah and I talk about the ups and downs of being a neurodivergent entrepreneur, as well as how neurodiversity intersects with innovation and has potential to spark humanitarian change. We also talk about the very real hidden costs of being an ADHD entrepreneur, like masking and burnout and the constant pressure to appear as if you have it all together. I absolutely loved Sarah's alternative name for adhd, and I'm pretty sure you will too, so make sure to stay tuned for that. Also, the Wonderbag company is offering an exclusive coupon for listeners of The Women and ADHD podcast. If you head to wonderbagworld.com, you can use the code WomenADHD20 for 20% off your purchase. And of course, that link is in the show notes. Now, Sarah is a coaching client of mine and we talk about the difference coaching has made in her life since her diagnosis. If you're ready to make that step in your own life, make sure to head over to womenandadhd.com coaching where you can book a free introductory consult with me to find out if my coaching is the right fit for you. Okay, this was a wonderful conversation. I can't wait for you to hear it. So without further ado, here is my interview with Sarah.
- [04:38]
All right, well, before we begin, Sarah, let me just give you a heartfelt thank you for agreeing to be on this podcast. As we were just chatting before I hit record, I can't believe I've convinced you to be on this podcast, and I think you can't believe you've agreed to be on it. But here we go. For whatever reasons that we have been brought into each other's life, I am internally grateful. So let's get started then. I'd love to hear and have you share what was going on in your life when you first kind of realized that you might have adhd, you might be neurodivergent. Like, what are, what were some of those Things that you first started thinking to yourself, I should look into this.
- [05:22]
Sarah Collins
Well, it's a hard question that even though it maybe shouldn't be, but, I mean, maybe many people say this, but, you know, for me, from when I was young, everything was off and I really struggled to understand things and things that people thought were simple or was straightforward. I never felt that way. And I also have to carry it by saying that I was an alcoholic or am an alcoholic. I've been 20 years sober. And I think that there was so much confusion in my life about what was anxiety, what was depression, what was alcoholism, what was bad behavior, what were character defects, you know, what were all of these things that kind of. I was labeled with or had or felt or whatever. And then you throw sort of all these trauma analysis into it as well. I mean, so I couldn't figure out what was wrong with me. And I was just doing so many things and traveling and. But things just weren't gelling and I was getting confused as to what was going on. And then in typical fashion, you know, it worked for me to sort of move around from country to country and to try and find my tribe, try and find some set, you know, some way to settle. And then I think really what hit me was Covid when there was this massive shift and everybody started talking about, you know, in the shutdowns, I became much busier and I became, you know, I was sort of sitting on. On zoom calls all day and. And my business was very busy, but there was. I was lonely and I was wondering where my friends are. And I was starting to think about all of these things. And I suppose I'm embarrassed to admit this, but one of the things that has followed me around in my business and one of the things I suppose has been one of my biggest shame things, is the turnover of staff that I've always had since I started my business. And I started making bad people decisions because I didn't want to let anyone down. And so I would keep people that I knew weren't wrong, or I would hire people that I knew were wrong because I didn't want to admit that I'd made a mistake. So this shame started to really build up in me, and I couldn't work out if it was the narrative of my youth where I'd always been told I was useless and I was this and I was that. And so I was really trying to figure out because I thought I was a good person. And, you know, I work in sort of the justice space and the humanitarian space. And I, and I never felt I'd done anything wrong. I felt like I was a good person and I cared deeply about people and yet constantly I was upsetting people, letting people down, and I really could not figure that out. And, and then I started to wonder if I was going mad, you know, like if there was a, like maybe I was schizophrenic or something because there was this thing and that thing. And yet everything I did was with good intentions. And I think one of the pivotal things for me was my nephew because I could start to see a lot of myself in him. So then I started to think, well, hang on a minute, this isn't that I'm some evil person with this, this sort of double personality and stuff like that, because I started seeing it in other people. And also interestingly for me, in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous, I started to hear a lot of people talking about some of the things that I thought were fantastic as character defects. And so there was all these sort of nuggets coming at me. And then I had a particularly bad year in. I'm trying to now work out the years 2021, 2022, my business was really getting exploding, but I was having a massive turnover of stuff and people were really angry with me and I was getting a lot of criticism and, and I thought, you know what, I can't carry on like this. And you know, I started trying to explain myself better, but. And I just started to see my behavior and how when people would come towards me at work, if I wasn't expecting it, I would start to lash out. And it was like, this is not right. And obviously I've had a lot of therapy in my life. In fact, I've probably spent more money on therapy than anything else in my life. And nobody had ever said anything about ADHD or neurodivergence. So I went to see somebody who was, I read about in the neurodivergence space, which I didn't really understand at that stage. And so when I met them, they said, well, I think we should do a diagnosis. And of course I was a blue blooded ADHD neurodivergent. Da da da da da da. You know, so that's what brought me to.
- [11:12]
Katie Weber
It was desperation actually, and somebody finally being able to connect those dots for you, which I feel like I've spoken about that on my podcast too. If it wasn't for the fact that my therapist knew enough about adhd, how much longer would I have gone through my life feeling like you said, what is Wrong with me. You so perfectly articulated, by the way, that feeling where, you know, our actions don't reflect our intentions, right? And so that feeling of like, why is everybody walking around in eggshells? Why am I having such a difficult time with interpersonal relationships? But also like, I am angry, right? And I am feeling a lot of rage. I think rage is one of those things that a lot of us connect to, right? That feeling of like, why am I going from 0 to 100 so quickly? And how are we supposed to know that that has anything to do with adhd? I mean, when, you know, when we're thinking ADHD is just a little boy who can't sit still.
- [12:10]
Sarah Collins
And that's where I have this big issue. And you know, another thing that was really plaguing me and had been for a long time was how I was able to show up in the world in sort of turning a switch on and being able to speak on stage, to run meetings brilliantly. And when I was on, I was on. But then the minute the curtains closed, I would collapse and I would feel this dread and this guilt and all the stuff I said wrong. And you know, there was this complete low, which was so weird. So these highs and these really big lows and I really started properly self knowing, you know, and really not understanding it. And I think, you know, you talk about therapists and I mean, as I say, I probably spend more money than God's got sheep on therapists through my life. And nobody had ever identified this until I went to a place that had a sign outside saying neurodivergent clinic. By that stage I was suspecting I was autistic, but I didn't know what that meant. But I talk about this, I share about this feeling of behind closed doors I was this absolutely terrible person and yet I shone in the world. And I think that's been the greatest, greatest joy for me has been bringing. Once I was. Once I obviously was diagnosed and started working with it and all of that was to bring those two things together.
- [13:55]
Katie Weber
Yeah, when you say bring those two things together, you mean just understand that you can be both or what do you mean by that?
- [14:05]
Sarah Collins
So I think that with an interest based brain, I now understand this complete switch on where everything else disappears and when I shine. And I've been able to decipher between that masking, what is masking and what is just feeling low and feeling tired and feeling overwhelmed. Because as we will know, anybody listening to this podcast who's adhd, and I hate that term by the way, but who's one who's neurodivergent and menopausal is how much we do during the day, you know, and that our morning start at 4, 4:30 and we can almost live a whole like week, two weeks, month in a day. But if you can't, if you can't sort of break that up and it all becomes one big mishmash, then it really. That's what kept taking me out and that's what was causing the burnout. And Katie, don't get me wrong, I haven't got it right yet at all. I don't think you ever get it right in from my experience. So to answer your question, what is bringing those things together? It's understanding that there's this, there's this, there's this, there's that and understanding the routines and the things you need to put in place in order to nurture all those aspects of. And none of them are shame based, they're all just you. But that's what I was meaning by, by bringing them together.
- [15:45]
Katie Weber
Gotcha. Yeah. I always say don't trust anybody who says that they've mastered their adhd. But you know, it's funny because I think a lot of the time I certainly experienced this in the past before I was diagnosed. Like I would use those days where I had all rockets firing and plate spinning and I loved that version of myself. So I would use that version of myself as evidence for why I should always be that version of my. And so I think it was because, you know, I loved, I got off on people saying, how do you do all these things? Right? Like it was such a huge part of my identity. And so it was really difficult to say, well I also am the person who can't get off the couch, you know, who wears the same clothes for three days in a row and doesn't shower. Like all of the fact that I was also that person and had so much shame around that I felt like I didn't want that person to exist. And now I feel like they live in harmony a little bit more where, you know, rather than feeling like I always have to be on recognizing that with, with one comes the other, that they need each other.
- [16:50]
Sarah Collins
Yeah, 100% hear you, Katie. And I think that, you know, for me, I always say nobody gets off a comfortable sofa, so why is anybody going to change unless it becomes unlivable. And you know, my highs, which I thrived on, the lows were getting lower, the highs were getting higher and the two were missing completely. And then there's all these people in between trying to figure out which one you are. And I think you only really seek help or seek clarification when it's too much. Also, one of the things I'm very passionate about is the stigma around it, because I think more people would want to understand themselves better if you didn't have to be labeled. So there's a difference between being labeled and stigmatized. If there was better language around understanding the way our brains work and the difference how we process things differently. And I think it was that understanding that has also made me feel really passionate about trying to get people to understand that. It's the processing of the brain. Why should we be judged and ostracized? You know, and why is there so much shame around it? And for me, that's a big thing. And now, as I've got, more comfortable and when I say comfortable, comfortable with who I am and being able to balance those things more, not being comfortable in the world and getting it all right, that's not what I'm saying at all, because that's never going to happen. It's. It's. It's about, you know, sort of using the challenges and our resilience and everything else. But I think it's also made me realize that, you know, those of us that have got to this point, we have an opportunity to change the narrative and to share our stories. And, you know, one of the things that always happens is that people talk about how fantastic it is and how great the journey is, and, you know, how I become a coach in ADHD or in business or, you know, a coach of this or that. I mean, I couldn't coach a couch. The point being is that it's an everyday thing for me. And if anybody thinks there's a silver bullet or if anybody thinks there's a pill, or if anybody thinks there's the perfect anything, then you must go and really think about the diagnosis again, because there isn't. That life is full of challenges. And I think our generation didn't get that memo. Well, I certainly didn't in South Africa, in apartheid South Africa, where everything was perfect and we were living in this absolutely horrific injustice regime, which I started to feel as a young girl, that life was not fair and that life was tough. And, you know, I often think, why didn't we get that before we came out, you know, and got told actually what life was? And so I think it's that acceptance that we're not going to feel joy all the time and we're not going to be that successful person all that time. And, you know, I think about, you know, the person who we just hide away from the world. You know, I have to close my bedroom door when I'm traveling because I don't want anyone to see what it looks like, you know, and it's that recuperating side of ourselves or the realness of ourselves that we don't want to show other people. But actually, that's what we do need to show, because that's life. And I think that in the world that we live in today, in such an uncertain world, in such a leaderless world, and in a world devoid of humanity and the humanness of people, I think showing the truth and the realness rather than the success, that is the Googled success. Do you know what I'm saying?
- [21:08]
Katie Weber
Absolutely. And I think what goes hand in hand with that is the irony of the stigma against adhd, which is you can't possibly have ADHD because you did well in school or you run businesses or, you know, all the reasons why so many of us weren't diagnosed, because oftentimes we say, well, you can't possibly have it because of all these wonderful things you've done. Now, I realize that those are most like. Like those are the people that I immediately think they must have adhd. Right. If you, if you're an entrepreneur and you run a business, you probably have adhd. But there, there is all of the stuff that comes with it. So, yes, all of the substance abuse, all of the stuff that we, so many of us, eating disorders, so many of us deal with these things in the shadows, but it's so true. Like, they, they. It's like they both have to exist. And so you need to look for that and assume that if somebody is running a business, if somebody is phenomenal, if somebody is that person that you think, wow, I don't know how you do all of that in one day, then that person is also probably compensating or deeply struggling or not. I mean, hopefully, ideally, you get to a place of self acceptance and self trust and all of that. I actually want to get back to what you had said about aa, because, you know, substance abuse is something that is, you know, many. We talk about a lot on the podcast. Many of us have, you know, troubled past, whatever you want to call it. But, you know, you mentioned that one of the things that you struggled with with AA is that this idea that there were character defects that you needed to get over or that you needed to rise above, and that Those were things that you sort of looked at in yourself as being great characteristics about yourself. Can you tell me more about that?
- [22:53]
Sarah Collins
Yeah, I mean, I think I must just say that I think AA is one of the most extraordinary organizations, if not the most extraordinary organization in the world because it is one alcoholic talking to another. And as you and I have learned in our relationship is one ADHD person talking to another. We get each other, we laugh at the same things. And in AA it gives people the space. And AA is responsible for getting more people sober than anything else in the world. And I wouldn't be sitting here today if it wasn't for Alcoholics Anonymous. And, and I'm still a member of it, and I still go and people say, really, after 20 years, do you still crave a drink? And I'm like, it's not about that. It's about the com. It's about the community and it's about the rituals and it's about the routines and it's about seeing like minded people. But I think over the years what I've come to be able to understand is what works for me and what doesn't. So a lot of it is talking about character defects. And you know, a lot of the madness is what makes us who we are, you know, and, and madness. I do that in inverted commas because I would like to be able to quote now out of aa, but of course I can't remember, so I can't quote. But there's a lot of contradictory things and there's a lot of. There's sort of this way about AA that is you have to stay in the program to stay sober and you have to accept these character defects and you have to accept to do this and you have to do that. And I understand those rituals and routines are absolutely essential to set up a good foundation for sobriety and for mental health going forward. But I wasn't prepared to constantly be a defected character because I wasn't affected. I was different and I was unique and what's the word they now call me with gray head, that you're eccentric. You know, now I can be eccentric and people stand up on the bus and give me their seat. And it was those very things that made me a success. And what I also said to myself quite a long time ago was I would hire a sober alcoholic any day or an alcoholic in recovery over somebody else. But I didn't understand what I was saying at the time. What I was saying is I would hire a neurodivergent person because I believe 80, 99% if not 100% of people in AA are neurodivergent. That means our alternative brain processing system works. And that's the world that I think is the future. And the world has been created by predominantly white male neurotypical people. That's what the framework, shall we put it, you know, the framework of marriage or the framework of society. Look, I tried marriage for six weeks, it didn't suit me. You know, these kind of things don't work for all of us. So the mavericks you talk about, the successes. So Steve Jobs, for example, I'll use him. He was a maverick. People hated or loved him. He was clearly neurodivergent to the extreme. But he changed the world. And I think those are the people that can and do. But it's not easy. And I can tell you that as a business owner and as somebody who is seen as a success and who has brought something into the world that wasn't there before and it's been a magical 16 years. No, it hasn't been magical. It's been bloody tough and difficult. And only if I was a neurodivergent would I actually have survived it. And so the Google side of it looks fantastic. But you know, it takes these different ways of thinking and that I call it magic. I don't know what it is, but those rapid fire connections and that we risk takers, I mean totally risk takers, you know, because we don't see the consequences at the time. We may have them later, but that's what it is. Is it easy to live with a person like that? Good heavens no.
- [27:46]
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- [28:13]
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- [28:37]
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- [28:40]
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- [28:41]
Sarah Collins
Taxes and fees extra Seamt mobile dollar.
- [28:45]
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- [30:00]
Katie Weber
I jump first, think later. People will say you're brave. And I'm like, I'm not brave. It's like you said. I just never occurred to me to think about whether I should or shouldn't do this until it was too late. And you know, sometimes it goes great, sometimes it's a flop and it's all of those things.
- [30:19]
Sarah Collins
Interesting, Katie, you said a flop, but I don't think that I actually think another look back and I actually, I mean, I look back and I was cringing at some things this morning when you were when I was thinking about what do I regret and oh, I could die at some of the things I did. But I think that what I've learned on this journey is, is that everything is information. So if you can take does that sound like somebody you know? If you could take that flop, you talk about that pancake flop and learn from it. And that's what I'm loving is learning from those flops. And you know something so funny, but I developed this product called a Wonder Bag. And I mean, 16 years ago I had no idea that I was ADHD. All I know is that my friends used to say to me, how many more inventions do we have to have? How many more earthworm farms do we have to try out? How many more this or how many more that? And when I took them the wonder bag, I said, this will be the last. And my interest based brain kicked into this product and I only connected last week that it is the biggest hack for cooking for people like us. It's amazing, but I've never connected those dots. So actually so many of the things that I do and have been doing for the past years, like knitting for example. I'm an obsessive knitter. Everyone says what do you make? Oh, nothing. But you're knitting on to my, I don't know, squares this, that they, somebody you know, I'm going to make them into a huge blanket, probably cover the house one day. But then I've now learned that that actually brings the left and the right brain together and it calms your nervous system down. So it's funny how these things that you didn't know were sort of ADHD hacks. We're going to learn a new term for ADHD and we're going to get that out to all the universities so we can lose that terminology. But, and you know, all these life hacks and when you take that magic of our personality with that huge downside of the depression, the burnout, the, the hatred of yourself, the low self esteem, all of that, and you able to kind of balance it a bit more, then you can start to have fun with it. And that magic I talk about, I love that magic because I love what's the universe going to bring next. And I think that we were just, I was just struggling so much for so long that that magic never used to appear anymore. And so, and it's not there every day either, let me tell you. But it certainly, yeah, I think the greatest gift I ever did myself was, was to go and ask somebody and have a look at my brain tap. And yeah, it's, it's been amazing.
- [33:44]
Katie Weber
Oh yeah, tell me more about that. So you had a, a brain scan?
- [33:49]
Sarah Collins
No. Brain type. Like the functioning of your brain.
- [33:53]
Katie Weber
Oh, okay, sorry.
- [33:54]
Sarah Collins
I thought, I know I did have a brain scan. I had all of those things because I thought there was something clinically wrong with me. And you know, one of the things, and this goes back over time, time. So I've filled out many questionnaires in different places and, and one of the things that they asked is do you have long term friends And I went to boarding school and have been very gifted and grateful that I've had lifelong friends and friends that have been with me for 30 years or 35, 40 years now longer. And I'm we going, I'm going away with them all for a week in two months time. So we're all still together as friends. And I was always so proud I could take that because I thought that will keep me out of the mental institution, you know, and because that was the main questions was if you have long term friends, it means you're not a lunatic. Basically that was the old fashioned language. And you know, also When I was 18, I was diagnosed by our GP as depressed and this and that. And he said to my dad, your daughter needs help. And my dad said, absolute rubbish, nothing wrong with her, she drinks too much, nothing wrong with her. And the doctor said to my dad, but if Sarah had cancer, would you help her? And he said, of course I would. And he could not accept in those days that mental health was an issue, you know, or no, was a real thing. So that made our inner voices constantly suppressing, suppressing, suppressing. So when I started the journey of trying to look for, for what was wrong with me, I did, I went for, you know, brain scans, I went for MRIs, I went for, you know, looking for tumors, but there was nothing there. You know, I think we look in the wrong places.
- [36:05]
Katie Weber
Yeah, it's still, it amazes me that having that question for so much of our life and neurodivergence, ADHD just never came up. Like it is tremendous to me how far we have come in such a short time in terms of having this language that you've talked about, right, like the, that we can say like, oh, like, you know, now I think about all those knitters who, all the women who were knitting in the PTA meetings, they all had adhd, right? Like, you know, absolutely all of those ways in which we intuitively developed hacks for our nervous system and nobody had any clue.
- [36:45]
Sarah Collins
But I do think a huge contributor to, you know, I think that mental health, adhd, add, dyspraxia, dyslexia, all the things that I've got, you know, and you know, they've been around forever. But first of all, you know, you stayed in your communities and you knitted or you did whatever, and, and things were so much smaller. But I, I think that social media, and I'm speaking purely for myself, I'm 54 years old, so I'm old and I didn't grow up with technology and for me, I think this has exacerbated bringing this out so much. So there's two ways to look at it. One is that a lot has happened in a short space of time around the language and making it accessible to more people. However, I also do think that one of our biggest and my biggest challenge, and I'm getting much better at it, is learning to manage technology around me, not managing to use it better, but to switch it off.
- [37:55]
Katie Weber
Yeah, I think that, you know, just, I see it so much with the younger generation, but sort of between me and my children, I guess it's younger millennials or older gens or gen. Gen Z. Older Gen Z. I can't remember now, but, you know, really, really struggling with social media and mental health. And I think it's going to be a defining part of their generations. Much like the defining part of Gen X or generation is kind of bringing mental health to the fore and looking after, reparenting ourselves because our parents, their generation was the like, suck it up generation and, you know, don't come home until the street lights are on or all the ways in which we were abandoned, you know, emotionally by our parents. And so, yeah, anyway, that's a whole other tangent. I want to actually get back to your childhood a little bit. Just the social justice element, because I think that's a big thing with ADHD and neurodivergence, is really feeling intense, intense empathy. And, you know, you grew up in a very, very difficult time. What's the euphemism of apartheid South Africa. And you actually ended up going into politics in your 20s, right?
- [39:15]
Sarah Collins
Well, actually, I spent my first night in jail when I was 15. You see, and these are all the things we don't know that are part of our great different way about our brain functioning is I acutely felt social injustice from the minute I can remember. I just did not understand why black people and white people were different. I did not understand why boys were more important than girls. I could not fathom this thing out. And what was interesting is the rest of our household, I've got three siblings, they weren't fazed by it or not from what I could observe, but I was vehemently like, this has to change. And yeah, I became political very young. And I think it was also my parents got divorced when we were young. And so as the oldest sister, I sort of set up and I suppose took a lot of the responsibilities of, of the female of the house. But then I started taking on the responsibilities of the world. You know, I had to Save South Africa from apartheid. And, and so, yeah, I started, I went to jail. I started challenging everything from a. You know, the ANC were banned, their books were banned. I would hide the ANC books that I'd got in London in our private girls school library so that no one could find them because nobody thought there would be anyway, you know, all of these things and, and this has defined my life. And you know, one of the things that my brothers used to always say to me is, why are you so sensitive? You take everything so personally. And I did, and I do, and I feel things. So, and I had this deep empathy, particularly around children. And, you know, I never wanted another little girl to feel how I did and to be ostracized and to feel so alienated for whatever reasons. And so still today, I mean, that's what drives me. That's what drives my activism at this current time in Gaza. It drives my activism as a humanitarian across the world. And it's driven the deep determination to equalize the status quo. And that's why I started a business based on humanitarian principles, because I believe that every woman has the right to be able to provide food and for their daughters to go to their children to go to school. And so as we do, we take on the biggest challenges in the world, which 16 years ago and still is today, is that half of humanity eat off open fires. And those are people living in rural areas most affected by climate change. And so, you know, my job and my business has taken me to the forefront of conflict zones, of all sorts of things. But what I've learned through my ADHD or alternative brain processing system is that I manage brilliantly in a crisis. I mean, Katie, what do, how do you manage in a crisis?
- [42:46]
Katie Weber
Yeah, it's. I feel like it's when we're all just absolutely every. It's the only time my brain is quiet is when you zone in. Right? Yeah.
- [42:54]
Sarah Collins
And isn't it so funny that I've been gifted enough or lucky enough or whatever to, to be able to use those skills in my, in my workplace. And so, yeah, so I think definitely my childhood defined who I am today. And you know, that deep sensitivity we have and the feeling of social injustice and inequality and those things that we feel so deeply can also be catalysts for social impact businesses, which I think the next generations are going to be at the forefront of. But then on the other hand, something that I've spoken to you about previously is the rapid fire connections that we make when we're connecting. And magic's happening, we kind of figuring out a strategy. It also happens the other way though. So we feel that intensity of all this negativity and it just completely can be overwhelming. And there are times when I just, I break, I break because I don't, I don't understand how things can be in the world that they are. Do you know what I'm saying? So a lot of what's happening in the world is an assault to our senses.
- [44:30]
Katie Weber
Yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, it's natural for us to question convention at every turn. Right. I think that that's something I've certainly seen over the course of my life, even from when I was a child, always questioning, but why? Why are we doing it? Why would we do, why would we do this? It makes no sense. Right. And so, yes, so then you would rise up against injustice on anyone. And I've often talked like I remember talking about the too muchness of the world in terms of how it deeply, deeply affects us in terms of our ability to, to process and self care. Like it's, you know, there were times where people would never have any idea what I was talking about with the. Too much. Oh, right. And, and, and because one, like you said, because one thing becomes all the things very, very quickly. And I think wealth said.
- [45:19]
Sarah Collins
Yeah.
- [45:20]
Katie Weber
During the early days of my diagnosis, as I was deep into hyperfocus ADHD research mode, I kept searching for some kind of all in one everything you ever needed to know about ADHD in Women handbook that I could reference and keep at my fingertips. But I never really found anything that suited me. That's why I've taken everything I've learned about ADHD in women and adults who are socialized as girls. And I've gathered it into a concise, easy to access, access self guided and self paced course so you can feel like you've got everything you need at your fingertips.
- [45:50]
It's called hey, it's ADHD and it.
- [45:53]
Has everything you need to start loving your brain and living a more fulfilling, gratifying life. I built this course to be helpful wherever you are on your ADHD journey. I am so excited to finally be able to offer this course and I truly hope this will help you develop a deeper understanding of your ADHD brain and, and how to embrace it as you build yourself a toolkit for your own life. So head over to womenandadhd.com and click on the hey it's ADHD course tab for more information and to get started.
- [46:22]
Because you've been so involved in Gaza and because you have been really standing up and you know, doing such amazing things with Wonderbag and with carbon credits and all of the things that you've been working on. Now since your diagnosis, how do you take care of yourself? How do you regulate in that? Not saying it works every time because nobody's mastered it, but, but what have you learned to do?
- [46:48]
Sarah Collins
Well, I think, you know, I spent my life feeling like I was being chased by a lion. And having worked and lived in the bush and actually be chased by a lion on horseback, that adrenaline that you get from that being chased is what I've had all the time. So these imaginary voices in my head or whatever they are, are constantly telling me I'm not good enough. You haven't done your emails. This has to happen and that has to happen and this and, and, and then you get in such a spin and so you are constantly on overdrive. And I was constantly feeling that. I just was never on top of thing. Much intra was always too over full. Well, it was. I didn't even have an intro because everything was lying all over the place. And so I just constantly felt on my back foot all the time. And I think what I've learned is that the world's not going to end if I don't answer an email today. And strangely enough, as disorganized and as sort of all over the shows I come across cross, I have very, very rigid routines. So I have to give myself time in the morning where, you know, nobody can disturb me and, and I do my, my ritual, you know, of my morning pages or whatever I do. Cold water swimming has been a huge thing for me. And I actually want to mention this because I've lived in chronic pain my entire life and that took up, I think, half of the energy. So the lion was chasing me on the one side, the pain was biting me from the other side. You don't have much wiggle room for other stuff, you know, so you constantly reeling and those two things have gone quiet and that's open space for me. And, and I really put my pain down to three things. One is sugar. Second is and I do break the sugar. And within three days I do know that my pain is sore. Cold water swimming. I haven't had a hot shower since 2020 and never ever I will have a warm bath because that's soothing and nurturing for me and I need that. But when I shower, it's only cold and I'm always looking for cold water to swim in. And the third big thing is finding somebody who Is like, you. Like me. So another ADHD person that I have an hour with every week, and it is absolutely golden and it's sealed in a tight box because I have a safe space that I can go to and, and share. And, you know, I suppose it's the AA of adhd, if you want to put it that way. So you have forgotten the question now, of course. But, you know, this thing of going on and on, people must think we're mad. And you know, also another thing is interrupting. It drives me mad when people interrupt these days because I want to say, have you had a diagnosis?
- [50:25]
Katie Weber
Well, for me, the, the most difficult thing is when people ask me, like, do you have an episode where you talk about burnout? And I'm like, well, all of them. But like, you know, like, I. I can never decide what to call these conversations because we, we jump around so much and everything is, you know, I feel like we're going on that wall with all the red string everywhere, right. Like everything is connected. And so we're jumping around so much that I'm sort of like, I don't know, we probably talk about all the things every episode, so good luck to you. But I did want to come back to that. You know, the line that we talk about often, which is when you, when you first came to me, you said, I think I'm approaching burnout. And do you remember what I said to you?
- [51:09]
Sarah Collins
You've gone into burnout long ago. That even half an hour eaten you. But, you know, I haven't had burnout like that since.
- [51:23]
Katie Weber
It's true. And, and I think even with the recent chronic pain flare up too, that, I mean, it had been more than a year of that. Right? I mean, of. Of really just understanding how important regulation is and, you know, that your life is never not going to be chaotic. But it's how you respond. It's how you treat yourself in those moments. Right. Like, I don't have to get back to these people. What's the worst that's going to happen? Right. What do I. Yeah.
- [51:51]
Sarah Collins
And I also think you save a lot of time not being in burnout. Burnout takes a lot of time, you know, because, you know, even today. And I was. Had planned my day meticulously for this meeting. And you know, and, and I had meeting. Anyway, it all got messed up with different time zones. I did half my makeup, I went out to a meeting, and I was with my accountant, and he was talking. I couldn't hear what he was saying, and I could feel my heart pounding. And I could feel I was having an anxiety attack. And the effort the poor man had to drive me home in the end. But the effort to come down from that panic attack and the effort it takes to come out of burnout, you know, we saving all that time to put into constructive routine of rest, play, knitting, staring out the window, you know, realizing we can't figure it all out now, so we'll wait till tomorrow. You know, I'm like a very relaxed, chilled person these days sometimes.
- [53:09]
Katie Weber
Well, on that note, I. You gave me a little hint into how you might name rename adhd, and I think I'd love it. Can you tell me if you could come up with a better name for.
- [53:20]
Sarah Collins
This superpower alternative brain processing system?
- [53:29]
Katie Weber
I love it. I really love that.
- [53:31]
Sarah Collins
And I think I'm gonna say, they say, what are you. I mean, what do you have? Or whatever. I'm gonna say, I have an alternative brain processing system. How cool is that?
- [53:43]
Katie Weber
It is. It's really great. There's no stigma attached. I love the fact that it's got a little bit of the, like, you know, data from Star Trek, right? Like a little bit of that. Like, I live among you humans because I often feel that way, right, Where I'm like, what. What do humans. What would a human do in this situation? So, Right. It's like we have alternate. We have alternative.
- [54:09]
Sarah Collins
Alternative systems. You know, it was interesting because on Friday I was at a meeting with people that have been particularly difficult to work with, and. And I. I wasn't sure how to deal with the meeting, and they were late for the meeting and they were rude to start with. And I said, you know, explain something to you. I don't really do rudeness anymore. And also, I don't like the way you speak to me. And I don't like the way you turn up 20 minutes late. And I don't think I want to do business with you. So I'm going to give you an offer and maybe we can go our own ways. And they looked at me and they said, that's so unprofessional. I said, really? What does unprofessional mean? I don't understand that word. I only understand truth and honesty. And you cannot believe how now we're best friends. They want to do another deal with me, and we're all going out for lunch next week and everything. And I just took away the bullshit, you know, and, you know, so I think that's what we have to do is have alternative processing systems, because the. The processing systems that we are forced into work for us.
- [55:23]
Katie Weber
Yeah. And somebody needs to question convention. Right? It's. What's that famous quote about tradition is the oppressor's excuse. I think that that person was definitely neurodivergent. Who said that? Do you know? Do you remember who said that?
- [55:40]
Sarah Collins
No, I don't. But one of the things I do know, Katie, is that the neurotypical world is going to have to change because, because where I look all around me now, the people making impact, the people moving the dial are not the people that are going to drive this transition. I mean you call us the Gen X, I think I call us Gen T, the generation of transition because you know, we having to transition across a whole thing and, and set new pathways, neuro pathways for generations to come. And I think that's our responsibility actually.
- [56:21]
Katie Weber
Oh my goodness. Oh, well, this has been phenomenal, Sarah, as I knew it would be. Thank you so much for finally agreeing to sit down, sit down with me.
- [56:32]
Sarah Collins
And I'd made, I said I'm never gonna do this. But I'm really excited, Katie, because I really am proudly joining the neurodivergent community and I, I'm enjoying speaking about it publicly, I'm enjoying sharing it with partners who just are so horrified and then suddenly it dawns on them, ah, now they understand. And it's just, it's really fun to be able to share that side of it and, and I think also to be able to forgive ourselves, you know, I think that's a huge part of this, of, of forgiving imperfection and, and yeah, I'm really excited. I'm excited for this journey I'm on and I know it's only just begun 18 months ago, whatever. And yeah, I can't thank you enough Katie, for being so amazing and bridging so many worlds, you know, and making sense of the non sense.
- [57:32]
Katie Weber
Oh, I like that. Before we go, I want to remember to just go back to Wonder Bag because I know Wonder Bag is your, your brainchild. You've. It's been 16 years. That's incredible. Where can people are now? In North America. Can you purchase Wonder Bags? You used to be able to.
- [57:51]
Sarah Collins
You can, yeah. You can, yes. So it's, it's basically a portable slow cooker. So you bring your food to the boil, you put it inside the bag and continues to cook for eight to 12 hours. Now if you me, I bring my rice to the boil and I go downstairs stairs and then I go for a swim and when I come back there's a catastrophe. In the kitchen or even my boiled eggs. Now, anything I put on the stove, I bring to the boil and I put it in the bag and I never have to worry about it again. And I've had a hugely dysfunctional relationship with food. And I mean, I'm not trying to punt the business, but I just know that a Wonder bag will be an amazing game changer for people who have heard us because then they're part of us. And for anybody, really, you can go onto our website, which is Wonderbag World, and then I think, Katie, I have emailed a code to you to offer 20% off to your listeners and their friends, of course. Can't remember the code. Oh, woman ADHD 20, right?
- [59:11]
Katie Weber
Yes. Women ADHD 20. I'll put that code in the show notes. Thank you, that's very generous. It's such an incredible invention and service and to be able to see it not only, you know, to extend beyond Africa into places like Gaza now and, you know, to see that connection of the social justice with invention, I think is just phenomenal and, you know, screams adhd. Now that you actually know what ADHD is. Right?
- [59:40]
Sarah Collins
Isn't it funny? And you know, when Time magazine listed me as one of the top 50 genius companies in the world in 2018, everyone was like, you are used. You hope this at business. You, you can't finish it. And now it's like that ADHD genius. That's what they were talking about. Not your sort of clink, clink$, which is what everybody thinks success is about. Anyway, this has been amazing. Katie, thank you for the opportunity and thank you for being my partner on this journey. It's amazing.
- [60:18]
Katie Weber
Well, thank you for your. Your curiosity and your insight and your vulnerability and I am. And sharing your realness and all the things and, you know, giving a voice and spreading the word and doing all the amazing things you do. So thank you, Sarah.
- [60:36]
Sarah Collins
Take, take, take.
- [60:41]
Katie Weber
There you have it. Thank you for listening and I really hope you enjoyed this episode of the Women and ADHD podcast. If you'd like to find out more about me and my coaching programs, head over to womenandadhd.com if you're a woman who was diagnosed with ADHD and you'd like to apply to be a guest on this podcast, visit womeninadhd.com podcastguest and you can find that link in the episode show notes. Also, you know, we ADHDers crave feedback and I would really appreciate hearing from you, the listener. Please take a moment to leave me a review on Apple Podcasts or on audible.
- [61:13]
And if that feels like too much.
- [61:14]
And I totally get it, please just take a few seconds right now to give me a five star rating or share this episode on your own social media to help reach more women who maybe have yet to discover and lean into this gift of neurodivergency and they may be struggling and they don't even know why.
- [61:31]
I'll see you next week when I.
- [61:32]
Interview another amazing woman who discovered she's not lazy or crazy or broken, but she has ADHD and she's now on the path to understanding her neurodivergent mind and finally using this gift to her advantage. Take care till then.
- [61:51]
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Katie Weber
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