019. Zelda Wynn Valdes: Mermaid Silhouette Master (w/ Tobi Ashiru)

Summary

Episode 019: Zelda Wynn Valdez – Mermaid Silhouette Master

Podcast: Women Designers You Should Know
Host: Amber Asay
Guest: Toby Ashiru
Release Date: October 1, 2024

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Introduction

In Episode 019 of Women Designers You Should Know, host Amber Asay delves into the illustrious career of Zelda Wynn Valdez, a pioneering African American fashion designer renowned for her iconic silhouettes and groundbreaking contributions to American fashion. Joined by guest Toby Ashiru, an architectural designer with a keen interest in the intersection of fashion and design, the episode unpacks Zelda's legacy, her influence on beauty standards, and her role in mentoring future generations of designers.

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Early Life and Career Beginnings

Zelda Wynn Valdez was born in 1901 in Chambersburg, Pennsylvania [00:10]. Growing up in a racially segregated society, she developed an early passion for fashion by practicing tailoring on her grandmother's dresses. Despite limited opportunities for black women in high fashion at the time, Zelda's determination led her to New York City in the 1920s, where she broke barriers as the first black woman to work as a saleswoman and tailor in an upscale boutique [05:00].

Notable Quote: "I have a way of fitting women beautifully." – Zelda Wynn Valdez [10:50]

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Launching Her Own Boutique: Chaise Zelda

In 1948, Zelda took a significant leap by opening her own boutique, Chaise Zelda, in Harlem—a cultural hub for African Americans [09:21]. Located on Broadway and West 158th Street, her boutique quickly became a sanctuary where women of color could access glamorous, custom-designed clothing. Zelda's client list boasted legendary figures such as Josephine Baker, Dorothy Dandridge, Marian Anderson, and Ella Fitzgerald [10:33].

Notable Insight: Zelda's ability to build a loyal clientele was partly due to her early work in luxury boutiques, where she cultivated relationships with future stars before they achieved widespread fame [07:05].

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Signature Design Aesthetic and Iconic Silhouettes

Zelda was celebrated for her form-fitting designs that emphasized the female silhouette without veering into vulgarity. Her preferred fabrics, like silk chiffon and chic bougie, allowed her creations to drape elegantly, enhancing the movement and grace of her clients on stage [11:03]. This meticulous attention to proportion and fabric manipulation made her gowns not only visually stunning but also wearable masterpieces.

Notable Quote: "I don't just fit the body, I fit the person." – Zelda Wynn Valdez [13:10]

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The Playboy Bunny Controversy

One of Zelda's most famous contributions—and sources of controversy—was her role in refining the Playboy Bunny costume [15:14]. Initially conceptualized by Ilsa Torrens, Zelda transformed the prototype into the now-iconic ensemble featuring a corset, satin ears, a bow tie, fishnets, and high heels [17:09]. Despite contributing significantly to the final design, debates continue over the extent of her credit compared to Torrens' original concept [17:38].

Notable Quote: "I had no idea it would be something people would talk about decades later. I just did my job." – Zelda Wynn Valdez [21:08]

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Mentorship and Later Career

Beyond her design prowess, Zelda was a dedicated mentor. She served as the President of the National Association of Fashion and Accessory Designers, an organization geared towards supporting black designers [22:37]. In the 1970s, she collaborated with the Dance Theater of Harlem, designing costumes that highlighted the dancers' movements and embodied the company's vision of black beauty [24:10].

Notable Insight: Zelda's mentorship extended her influence, shaping the careers of numerous African American designers and ensuring her legacy lived on through their successes [23:19].

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Legacy and Preservation

Zelda Wynn Valdez passed away in 2001 at the age of 100, but her impact on fashion remains enduring [28:06]. Despite her significant contributions, there is a pressing need for better archival practices to preserve her extensive body of work. Toby Ashiru highlights the scarcity of documented archives and advocates for exhibitions and publications that can showcase Zelda's original designs and hand drawings [28:35].

Notable Quote: "I made clothes for women to feel like queens." – Zelda Wynn Valdez [33:29]

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Conclusion

Zelda Wynn Valdez's career is a testament to her resilience, creativity, and unwavering commitment to empowering women through fashion. From dressing some of the most iconic women of the 20th century to mentoring future generations of designers, Zelda's legacy is one of beauty, boldness, and breaking barriers. As Amber Asay and Toby Ashiru conclude the episode, they emphasize the importance of recognizing and preserving the contributions of trailblazing women like Zelda.

Final Thought: Zelda's story underscores the necessity of archiving and celebrating the work of influential designers to ensure their legacies inspire future generations.

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Notable Quotes Recap:

• "I have a way of fitting women beautifully." – Zelda Wynn Valdez [10:50]
• "I don't just fit the body, I fit the person." – Zelda Wynn Valdez [13:10]
• "I had no idea it would be something people would talk about decades later. I just did my job." – Zelda Wynn Valdez [21:08]
• "I made clothes for women to feel like queens." – Zelda Wynn Valdez [33:29]

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This episode not only highlights Zelda Wynn Valdez's significant contributions to fashion but also sheds light on the broader challenges and triumphs of black women in the design industry. For listeners passionate about design history and the stories of unsung heroines, this episode offers a rich and inspiring narrative.

Transcript

[Amber A.C.]

Hello and welcome back to Women Designers. You should know where we unveil the female geniuses behind your favorite designs. I'm your host, Amber A.C. and today we're diving into the dazzling world of fashion legend Zelda Wynn Valdez. Now, you might know Zelda as the designer who dressed some of the most iconic women of the 20th century. Josephine Baker, Ella Fitzgerald, Aretha Franklin, Eartha Kitt, Joyce Bryant, Diane Carroll, Dorothy Dandridge, and Mae West. But her story goes beyond just glamorous gowns. There's so much more to explore from her groundbreaking work as a pioneer in fashion to her influence on shaping beauty standards in America. Before we get started, I do want to make a quick correction. After recording, I realized we had previously mentioned Zelda was born in 1905, but she's actually born in 1901. A small but important detail when talking about someone so pivotal in shaping American fashion. So she actually lived to be 100 years old and not 96 like we talk about in the recording. I'm excited to have Toby Ashiru joining me today. Toby is not only a gifted architectural designer, but also brings a fresh perspective on how the worlds of fashion and design intersect. Together, we're going to peel back the layers of Zelda's incredible career, starting with how she became one of the first black women to own a boutique on Broadway, to her bold approach to design that celebrated femininity and sensuel in a way that defied convention at the time. And there's a lot more. Did you know Zelda played a key role in designing costumes for the Dance Theater of Harlem later in her career? Or that there's some real intrigue and controversy surrounding the creation of one of her most famous designs, the Playboy Bunny costume? So there's a lot to unpack there. Before we jump in, I want to take a moment to mention that I now have a donation link for anyone who'd like to support the podcast. If you've been enjoying these deep dives into design history and to help us contribute producing these stories, you can make a small one time donation or even set up a monthly contribution. You can [e-mail] WomenDesigners pod or I'll link that in the show notes as well. Every bit helps to keep this podcast going and also supports the incredible team behind the scenes who help with research and editing. Thank you so much for your support. All right, with that said, let's get into the remarkable life and legacy of Zelda Wynn Vald.

[Toby Ashiru]

Welcome back to the podcast, Toby Hi.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

So excited to be back. You know, I love Zotto Wynn Valdez. My cat is named after her. So thank you for bringing me back to chat about one of my faves.

[Toby Ashiru]

Yeah.

[Amber A.C.]

And for the listeners who don't know.

[Toby Ashiru]

Toby was a guest on episode nine.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Where we talk all about Norma Merrick's cleric. And that one's such a good one.

[Toby Ashiru]

So if you haven't listened to that one, you should definitely check that one out. But today, we're going to dive into.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

All things Zelda Wynn Valdez.

[Toby Ashiru]

So I'm curious about your cat, though. So is she named Zelda Win Valdez, or do you just call her Zelda?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

So her full name is Zelda Basquiat. So emerging of my favorite artist, but it's not Zelda Wynn Valdez, but it is named after her Zelda, because some people think it's the name the game Zelda, which I've never played. So I was like, I didn't know there was a game. I was using this as an opportunity to teach you about one of my favorite designers, Zelda Win.

[Toby Ashiru]

Well, now you have to tell me.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Who Basquiat is named as a Basquiat, like the painter Jean Michel Basquiat. I almost said Basquiat.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I need to know his work more.

[Toby Ashiru]

But, yes, this meme sounds familiar.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

You have to. I know that there was opposite of the Broad Museum, opposite of the Walt Disney Concert Hall. There was an exhibit there just all featuring his work. I know that that's coming to a close, if it hasn't already, so you should check it out if it's still open. But there's definitely some of his pieces at the Broad Museum as part of their permanent collection. So definitely check it out.

[Toby Ashiru]

Yeah. Yeah, that's really cool. And died at a very young age, too.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I had a significant amount of time creating work in la, so that was really cool. I'm like, oh, you were here too, in Venice? Yeah.

[Toby Ashiru]

Okay. Well, here's in honor of the cat Zelda. We're now going to talk about the real Zelda. And so, for those who don't know, Zelda Wynn Valdez is a fashion legend.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

But she might not be as well.

[Toby Ashiru]

Known as some of her contemporaries, but.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Her influence on American culture is undeniable. Not only did she design for some of the most iconic women of the 20th century, but her creations helped define sensuality and glamour in ways that are still felt today. We'll explore her fascinating life, her unique approach to fashion, and a bit of controversy around one of her most famous.

[Toby Ashiru]

Creations, the Playboy bunny suit. So let's go way back to her early life. She was born in 1905 in Chambersburg, Pennsylvania, and she came from a working.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Class family in a racially segregated world.

[Toby Ashiru]

Of course, 1905, like turn of the century, she didn't have the traditional access to the world of high fashion. But she didn't let that stop her.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

From a young age, she was drawn to the art of making clothes. She once practiced her tailoring skills on her grandmother's dresses, proving she was destined for something big. As she got older, she developed her skills further, attending a local design school. But like many black women in America at the time, opportunities were limited. Her perseverance took her to New York City, where she eventually found her place.

[Toby Ashiru]

In fashion, creating a style all her own.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

In the 1920s, Zelda moved to New York City, where she began working in luxury boutiques. She became the first black woman to work as a saleswoman and tailor in an upscale shop. This was very groundbreaking at the time, but it wasn't without its challenges. Zotto was often underappreciated or overlooked in the predominantly white fashion world. She kept going. Though driven by her passion and believing her own talent, Zelda's attention to detail and ability to make her clients feel beautiful quickly set her apart. Her confidence grew as she began to build a clientele that included everyday women and later, high profile figures.

[Toby Ashiru]

I love that.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Remind me, didn't you want to at.

[Toby Ashiru]

Some point go into fashion design?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Yes. And it was really, for me having. I did a art project in high school trying to discover more black female fashion designers. That paved the way and quickly found Zelda, which was interesting because obviously I found her for a very specific reason. And then I went through life thinking, like, everybody? And I was like, do you know, you know, this thing that she created? And we're gonna get into it. But it was very exciting for me because a lot of people don't actually know how many doors she opened for other African American designers in la, in New York, especially in New York. Like, I don't even think she showed it like Fashion Week. But all this to say that she was very influential. And a lot of groundbreaking things that she did open the doors for other designers down the line, even outside of fashion. So shout out to Zelda one day, I'll still make it back to fashion design circle back.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Starting my studio, Nice People was a thrilling yet challenging journey. But having a mentor by my side was transformative. I received invaluable advice on how to run my business. And now that I'm seven years into my successful, award winning studio. I'm excited to offer that same support to you. I've now hit 51 on one sessions and I'm here to help empower your creative journey. Join me for personalized mentor calls on intro co Amber AC and now back to the show.

[Toby Ashiru]

Yeah, I mean, it's so interesting too that there's kind of this recurring theme with some of the women that we talk about where you see from a very early age that there's something there that is really drawing them to design and to a specific industry, too. And so it's really interesting to read through her early days and her childhood and growing up and how she really was basically, as it says, was destined, destined to do this and to really be within the fashion world and to really seek it out. And she was very passionate about it, and that drove her to keep working on her skills and to really make this a career. And so then in 1948, Zelda took.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

A massive leap and opened her own.

[Toby Ashiru]

Boutique in Harlem called Chaise Zelda. And doing the math real quick, she was in her 40s when she did this. So I don't think that that's the biggest leap because she was already in the 20s and in the 30s, which.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Would be her 20s and her 30s, because she was born basically at 1900.

[Toby Ashiru]

That she was starting to get her footing in the world, getting her own clients, all of this. And so it's not like she went.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

From nothing to opening her own boutique.

[Toby Ashiru]

She, at this point, already had a clientele.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

But this decision was bold, particularly as an African American woman in a largely white dominated industry. But Harlem in the late forties was the cultural heartbeat of black America. Zelda's boutique was not just a business. It was a place where women of color could find glamour designed specifically for them. Her boutique was located on Broadway and West 158th Street, a high profile area that signaled she was playing in the big leagues.

[Toby Ashiru]

And her clients, they were a who's.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Who of black female entertainment royalty.

[Toby Ashiru]

So there was Josephine Baker, Dorothy Dandridge.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Marian Anderson, and later Ella Fitzgerald. She even designed wedding dresses for some.

[Toby Ashiru]

Of these iconic women.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Zala once said, I have a way of fitting women beautifully. And her clients would certainly agree. She made sure every stitch was in place, creating gowns that celebrated the female.

[Toby Ashiru]

Form with grace and elegance.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

What I find so beautiful about her work as well is when we like, in putting into context the fact that she was in her 40s when she started her boutique, somebody might be like, how does she get like high profile clients. And this is a guess, but it's a calculated guess that she was part of me serving these clients, these people when she was working at the upscale boutique. So before they became the new school of like black American Harlem and Hollywood as well. So a lot of designers think about, like, how do you work with the big people? A lot of times it's you end up working with them before they're these superstars. And so it's really cool to see how that also set her apart. I'm sure her relations with the people and how she was making them feel beautiful. But then her approach to design, she designed for real women. Her designs were often form fitting, emphasizing curves and celebrating sensuality. She understood that clothing was more than just fabric. It was about making women feel confident, powerful and beautiful. And what I feel like also, you know, as a designer in the way we design, we understand like evoking those emotions out of like the brands that we create. And just all these little moments resonates with the customer. It resonates with the client. It's just so beautiful. Like they're all. It's all applicable. And I find that so cool.

[Toby Ashiru]

I was just thinking about Ann Lowe.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

And we covered her story a few episodes ago too.

[Toby Ashiru]

And I feel like what sets Zelda apart is she designed for the stage. And that's kind of like with Ann.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Low, she was designing for these events and dresses that you could dance in.

[Toby Ashiru]

And that were really 360 and things like that. You're really focused on the back of.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

The dress because they're dancing with someone.

[Toby Ashiru]

But then with Zelda, her work is so for a person who's going to.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Be standing the whole time, so it's.

[Toby Ashiru]

Like very, very tight. Like you're going to squeeze this person, the singer into this dress, but then also it's going to look really good.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Under lighting and on a stage and.

[Toby Ashiru]

Creates a perfect silhouette for the stage too. And I just love that about Zelda's work.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Same, same. And I really love to like her silhouettes were body conscious and glamorous, but never vulgar. She once said, I don't just fit the body, I fit the person. Which is also very forward thinking for like the body positivity movement that we see now. Like, her designs were not restricted to sizing in any way. It was for this specific. Built for the body, which I wish. Yeah, fat smash it. Her understanding of proportion, fabric and the way the gown moved with the body helped her design dresses that were not only visually stunning, but also wearable works of art. Her favorite fabric to work with, silk chiffon in chic bougie. Because of how it moved, it draped against the body. She understood how to manipulate the material to bring out the best in both the dress and the woman wearing it.

[Toby Ashiru]

That's so great. And I almost forgot to preface our entire conversation with this, but I posted a reel about Zelda Wind Valdez. I believe it was way back in.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

It was before you started the podcast.

[Toby Ashiru]

It was. It was earlier this year. Now I'm blanking on what month that was, but it had about 800,000 views.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

46,000 likes, and 600 comments. And so it was definitely one of.

[Toby Ashiru]

The top reels that went viral and created a lot of buzz. A lot of people loved seeing her.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Work and had either heard about her and have admired her all these years.

[Toby Ashiru]

Too, or she was completely new to them. I love all the conversations around her. All the comments were commenting about how they want to know more, how they want a documentary, they want a Netflix special, they want a biopic. And I totally agree because this next part of her story is really intriguing and I think really paves the way for some kind of an iconic movie moment.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

But she worked on the Playboy Bunny.

[Amber A.C.]

Suit, and it was kind of a.

[Toby Ashiru]

Controversial story too, and still is today. It's funny because trying to really figure out history and set history straight from.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

The 60s is really hard to do.

[Toby Ashiru]

Today because you have to have all sorts of records and really showing who did what and being able to figure out how all of that is laid out. And so, of course, this is Zelda's.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Most iconic contribution to fashion. And the way that this went was Hugh Hefner approached Zelda in the early 60s, asking her to design a signature costume for his Playboy club waitresses. Zelda was already well known for her.

[Toby Ashiru]

Sultry body hugging designs, so it made.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Sense that Hefner would come to her.

[Toby Ashiru]

For this job because again, she's about 60 at this point. She's created so many dresses. And it might have been a word of mouth thing that he received her name, but as is often the case with trailblazing women, there's a twist to the story.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

The creation of the Bunny suit wasn't without controversy. A woman named Ilsa Torrens, the mother of one of the original Playboy Bunnies, had created a rough version of the.

[Toby Ashiru]

Bunny costume as a prototype.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

And so this prototype that she created.

[Toby Ashiru]

Was kind of like a swimsuit is how I've heard it described. And Hefner saw it and liked the idea and I think the idea came from one of the original Playboy bunnies as well. And so that's why she had her mom create this idea of it being a bunny costume, and so he liked it.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

But it was Zelda who refined the design into what we know today, the.

[Toby Ashiru]

Corset, the satin ears, the bow tie.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

The fishnets, and the high heels.

[Toby Ashiru]

So she refined it even further, and you can see it in the corset, especially, and in the way that it hugs the body.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Similar to a lot of her dresses, too.

[Toby Ashiru]

So it's pretty obvious that Zelda had created this or that it was her work.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

But there's been some debate over who really deserves credit for the final design.

[Toby Ashiru]

Was it Ilsa Torrens who came up with the first draft, or Zelda Wynn.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Valdez, who transformed it into the iconic, polished look that defined an era? It's a conversation that speaks to a larger issue in design history.

[Toby Ashiru]

Who really gets the credit for groundbreaking work. And so it's kind of one of.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Those things where Zelda didn't necessarily come.

[Toby Ashiru]

Up with the concept, but she made it how we see it today. And so I don't think it would have really hit the ground like it does today or really moved people and.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Made its waves that it has today.

[Toby Ashiru]

If she didn't really perfect it and refine it and make it something so iconic.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I agree. And I think also, like, ideas are living, breeding organisms, and there's so many times where you see something come to Virginia, like, I had that idea too, actually. Like, almost exactly. But it's always been the person who brings it into fruition is the real game changer. And I think it's not a thing of winner takes all. For me. I think it's kind of like somebody could have the idea, and then that idea somebody else can bring in and make that scene become this garden, you know, something even Dover than what the first. The person who had the original concept did. So I think it's also interesting, too, because part of the Playboy Bunny outfit, we always think of it as the outfit. So we think about the tie, we think about the corset, but we think about all the other elements and not just the suit itself. So in that case, it seems fair for Zelda to have the credit for the costume as a whole outfit instead of not just the bodysuit part of it.

[Toby Ashiru]

And I think in later years, they've brought Zelda's name to the forefront even more.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

But this is also a patented suit.

[Toby Ashiru]

And Playboy, of course, owns the patent or the trademark for this suit. And of course, that makes sense because.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

This is probably a work for hire.

[Toby Ashiru]

Situation, and they probably first created that patent decades ago.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

And so even though her name's not.

[Toby Ashiru]

On that, I would say that she probably should be attributed quite a bit. And, you know, it would be great if a movie did come out for Playboy to have kind of a stamp of approval on it or be part of that production in some form.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

And that's so true. Did the work for hire idea, like, if it was in the contract that whatever I create for you belongs to you. It's your intellectual property. That's where it is. Some words you can use that word. And nobody back then, maybe Q, because Q has been positioned as a visionary, but nobody really had an idea that it would be still such a legendary mainstay in the cultural zeitgeist.

[Toby Ashiru]

So, yeah, in fact, the logo was.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Designed by art Paul in 1953 for the second issue of Playboy magazine.

[Toby Ashiru]

It became an iconic representation of the Playboy brand.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

And then the bunny suit was introduced.

[Toby Ashiru]

Later in 1960 as part of the club. So that makes sense now that it came from this larger identity initially that started about 10 years prior to this club.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Interesting.

[Toby Ashiru]

That's so cool. And then one quote I had to call out that Zelda said too, she was so humble about the creation of the Playboy bunny suit.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

She said, I had no idea it.

[Toby Ashiru]

Would be something people would talk about decades later. I just did my job. So her legacy in shaping that, that.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Iconic look is undeniable.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I love it. Even she knows. She's like, hey, I just did the job, though I was paid to be. Who knew it would be so iconic? I love it.

[Toby Ashiru]

She's a natural. Like, everything she creates is iconic.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

And she's like, I really do this. I create iconic things for breakfast.

[Toby Ashiru]

She makes it look so easy. But really, like, a lot of people couldn't do what she does.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Literally, this is what she deserves. The doc, the biopic, Netflix, spin up, everything, for sure. One of the greatest measures of Zelda's success was her longstanding relationship with some of the biggest names in entertainment. Ella Fitzgerald, the Queen of Jazz, was one of Zelda's most loyal clients. Zelda designed her gowns for over a decade, ensuring that they were as captivating as Ella's voice. Each dress flowed with Ella's body as she performed, enhancing rather than constricting her movement. Zelda also dressed Marian Anderson, the first African American to perform at the Metropolitan Opera. It was a groundbreaking moment in American history. And Zelda's gown for Anderson was Nothing short of breathtaking. These women trusted Zelda, not just because of their technical skill, but because she made them feel seen and celebrated.

[Toby Ashiru]

Yeah. In fact, her influence went beyond just her creations.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

In the later years of her life, she turned her attention to mentoring. She served as the president of the national association of Fashion and accessory Designers, an organization that uplifted and supported black designers during a time when they were still largely excluded from mainstream fashion circles.

[Toby Ashiru]

As far as I know, that organization has since closed.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

But she still had such an influence. With her mentoring, she helped shape the next generation of African American designers, encouraging them to believe in themselves and push past the limitations imposed by society. She helped pave the way for others, just as she had done for herself.

[Toby Ashiru]

And that's why it's so interesting to hear these things and to see what.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

She did to stand up for herself.

[Toby Ashiru]

Her story is pretty old.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

It's really hard to know and understand her everyday interactions with her clients and with the fashion industry and ways that.

[Toby Ashiru]

She was able to stand up for herself in ways that she's trying to.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Mentor for others, too.

[Toby Ashiru]

So I bet that there was some sort of a sense of confidence, even though she's very humble about what she did.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

And making sure to pass the baton forward is also something that I really love to see in. Across the span of her career, one of the most impressive and inspiring chapters in Zelda Wayne Bades career came into her life when she began working with the Dance theater in Harlem in the 1970s, Arthur Mitchell, Co founder of the Dance Theater in Harlem, approached Zade to design costumes for this company. He recognized her skill in creating garments that both fit and celebrated the bodies of black women. This collaboration was perfect for Zade, as her work had always been about emphasizing elegance, movement, and beauty. Over the course of her time at the Dance Theater of Harlem, she designed costumes for a variety of productions, including their version of Firebird, where her intricate designs elevated the dance's grace and power. Like, that is so cool. Especially what you said earlier about designing in 360. This is like the ultimate test of all the lessons that she had, like, learned from the everyday woman to the entertainer to the Hollywood super actress, and then to now bring it all together and, like, it's one thing for somebody to stand and hold it pretty, you know, look pretty in what she's creating. It's another thing that's a pretty dance, and it still has all the core elements of what made her design so famous. Arthur Mitchell once said, her costumes for the Dance Theater of Harlem transformed our performances into Something otherworldly. She made us look like the vision of black beauty we were striving to represent. And just. Oh, that's so beautiful. Yeah. Zotto worked with the ballet company for over two decades while continuing to design costumes for them into her 80s. Her work helped bring a heightened level of sophistication and glamour to their performances, once again showcasing her deep understanding of fabric, movement and the human form.

[Toby Ashiru]

Again, the fact that she was so.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Good at creating for entertainment and for.

[Toby Ashiru]

The stage is just so interesting and such a niche part of her work, too. And I wouldn't say she was necessarily.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Creating costumes through her whole career.

[Toby Ashiru]

She was really creating these beautiful aesthetics and designs that really fit the entertainer.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

And the stage and also seemed to act as an extension of whatever character the person wearing it was trying to embody. So if they were a dancer, it's gonna make it easier. If they dance it down, they sing is going to make it easier. But then to sing, then obviously I play. Boy, if you got to look cute, it's going to make it easier to stand and look cute.

[Toby Ashiru]

Yeah. It's kind of frustrating because there aren't.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

That many images of her work out there. If we're talking about a 60 year.

[Toby Ashiru]

Career here, because she was working on these well into her 80s, then where.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Is all that work?

[Toby Ashiru]

Where are all of those costumes, those ballet costumes?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Where are the archives?

[Toby Ashiru]

Yeah. Like, it's so limited, and I wish that we could see more of that.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

And that more of that could even be on display because. And a book, of course, with images.

[Toby Ashiru]

Of all of those works, because it kind of feels like her work is fairly limited or the archive is not really as full as her actual work.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

And it seems like a lot of times people then only lean towards the Playboy Bunny costume because that's one of the things that was probably well archived, like, even the evolution of that design, too. But. Yeah. Where's the photos? Where are the pizzas?

[Toby Ashiru]

Yeah. In fact, there is only a handful of books that are out there about her. There's one called Dazzling the Story of.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Fashion Designer Zelda Wind Valdez.

[Toby Ashiru]

Actually, it's a picture book from this year, so it's very recent.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I love that. That's. Yeah, I'm looking at it now. I'm like, oh, and it's a children's book I'm gonna give to my friends with tape.

[Toby Ashiru]

Okay.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I think that's the only book that.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Is the only book that's also kind of crazy. Wow.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

In her later years, she continued to work quietly influencing the fashion industry.

[Toby Ashiru]

From behind the scenes.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

She lived to be 96 years old.

[Toby Ashiru]

And she passed away in 2001.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

But her impact on fashion has never faded. From the gowns she made for the biggest stars of her era to her role in shaping iconic pieces like the.

[Toby Ashiru]

Playboy bunny suit, her work has left a lasting mark.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

While she may not be as universally known as some of her counterparts, her influence is everywhere. From the red carpets to the runways, her legacy lives on. I'd love to know what is your.

[Toby Ashiru]

Biggest takeaway from her story?

[Unknown Speaker 1]

That black women don't get enough credit?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Not even.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

But for me, it's maybe also like archiving, because I will say, since she did live to, like, an older age, I would have loved to see. Not. And I'm not saying that she did. And I would love to see maybe even her take more agency of archiving her own pieces and donating it to, like, the Met or just, you know, a fashion institution, just some way to preserve the legacy in another way. Because something that I realized is that, like, even myself, I had to learn, like, how do I document my own work? Because I can't always be hopeful that other people will take as much care or concern for them to do that on my behalf. And so I think in hers, I would just remind her for myself, document your work. Document, document, document. But then also, like, I would love to go to an exhibition about her work that features actual original works. Hand drawings. Yeah, that's my biggest takeaway. I. We need to archive the grades more, and I wish that they were just more of places to go interact with her work.

[Toby Ashiru]

Yeah, absolutely. And I would say one thing that stands out for me.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Well, there's two things. I think something that's really interesting about her work is she took this iconic.

[Toby Ashiru]

Mermaid silhouette that she did so often, and she recreated it again and again.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

In subtly different ways. And so from a design standpoint, there's.

[Toby Ashiru]

A couple things where there's people coming.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

To her for this look, for this.

[Toby Ashiru]

Aesthetic, and that's why she got that Playboy bunny suit contract or work is because she had a style and a very specific aesthetic and a niche, and.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

It made her work probably more efficient.

[Toby Ashiru]

Because she's like, I've done this again and again.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I can whip out this dress in no time.

[Toby Ashiru]

And it's because I really understand this silhouette and this style. And so I think that's a really great testament of the business of design.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

And clients being attracted to a very specific style that you offer, and for.

[Toby Ashiru]

You to have a streamlined process with that offer. And then the second takeaway is on.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Her mentorship stuff, which is probably similar.

[Toby Ashiru]

To your story as well, where you do a lot of mentoring for budding architects. And I think that that's really impressive about her, too, is I don't know.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

How well known she was at the.

[Toby Ashiru]

Time, beyond the black community that knew her really well. And so she was probably a big.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Fish in a small pond.

[Toby Ashiru]

This is just me guessing, because I don't really know what it was like from the 40s through the 80s with.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Her name out there and who really knew about.

[Toby Ashiru]

But that didn't stop her from mentoring people.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

And I think that's really interesting, too.

[Toby Ashiru]

Is she mentored people because she knew she had something to offer and because.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

People probably kept coming to her asking questions, asking for help.

[Toby Ashiru]

And so just basically to say, like.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

You don't have to be the end all.

[Toby Ashiru]

Be all end of your career to really mentor people.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

You can be a big fish in a small pond.

[Toby Ashiru]

You can be at any point in your career and mentor someone and really help them to get to where you are.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

That is so, so true. Especially the note of being a designer, that you're like, I am an expert in this thing. I can do it this way, that way, flip it on certain. Like, you know, that is so, so true because sometimes people want to shame designers and like, oh, you just have one style. It's like, no, I'm really good at this one thing, and that's what makes everything else even look better. And. And that doesn't stop her from being able to share knowledge. But somebody who does something completely different, you kick the nail on the head on that.

[Toby Ashiru]

Thank you. Yeah, I love the word expert. I totally forgot that part. But, yeah, she was an expert in the dress that she was creating, which, if you see the real. And if you Google her name, you'll get it, and you'll see that she has a very iconic look.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I love to think about the fact that, too, her legacy does live on in the people that she mentored and how they are coming. They might have just been more like quiet. More quiet mentees where they internally have her work living on. They do how they interact. So that is always very nice to hear that she has, like, you know, a crew of mentees that are also probably having direct influence to what we're seeing today on magazines and what's trending and how, you know, trends go in cycles and stuff. But love this episode. Love Zelda. Can't wait to listen myself when the documentary comes. They're going to reference this podcast.

[Toby Ashiru]

Yes, I hope so. And just to quote Zelda, in the end she said, I made clothes for women to feel like queens. And so that is such a testament to her work and to empowering women and to the fact that she was serving other people and helping them feel their best. And I love that part of her story too.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

And so thank you so much for joining me today.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Thank you for having me. I love this. I hope everybody leaves learning something new about a really awesome designer. No woman designer that you should know.

[Toby Ashiru]

Yeah.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Here's to Zelda.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Cheers to Zelda.

[Amber A.C.]

And that wraps up today's episode on Zelda When Valdez. From her iconic designs to her work with legends like Ella Fitzgerald and the Dance Theater of Harlem, Zelda's legacy is one of boldness, beauty and breaking barriers. I want to thank my wonderful guest Toby Ashiru for joining me again today. Toby, your insights and unique perspective really brought another layer to this conversation. It's always a pleasure having you on the show and for all of our listeners. If you enjoyed today's episode, please consider supporting the podcast by making a small one time or monthly donation. The link is in the show notes or you can go to buymeacoffee.com WomenDesigners pod As always, don't forget to leave a review and I might just read one of my favorites in our next episode. Thanks again for tuning in and we'll be back soon with more women designers. You should know. As always, let's redesign history by celebrating women.