Amber A.C. (5:55)

And it's funny because I think for creatives, sometimes high school feels so boring or unnecessary or feels like learning a lot of things that you might never use. Did you feel that way when you were in high school? Did it feel like it was getting in the way of what you really wanted?

A.D. Goodrich (6:14)

Not at all. Like, I've always loved school, but I just felt like I was done. Like, I had actually done all of the classes that I needed to do before graduation, and I kind of looked at it just factually. I was like, I'm done with high school. Like, I've actually completed everything. I'm good. I have good grades. I'm going to get into the school I want. Like, I'm good. Maria was like, yeah, you're good. And so then I was able to leave early. Just like, I'm always in a rush to get to the next thing because I'm constantly thinking about death and how short our lives are. And so I'm always like, let's move on to the next thing. And there's. There's this opportunity to do woodworking full time. And that sounded pretty cool to me, I think.

Amber A.C. (6:57)

Yeah, that's so interesting. I love that you're like, check onto the next thing. Like, a little checklist. And so you ended up attending the Art Institute of Chicago, and you studied a range of disciplines like painting, architectural preservation, and art history. Not only that, but you also spent time at La Sorbenne in Paris, further deepening your understanding of art and design. And during your education, do you remember learning about women in art and design?

A.D. Goodrich (7:30)

It is hard to say, like, no, I did not learn about women because it is just part of the conversation. But I feel like art history has been owned by males, and until recently, the books have been coming out like, woman Made. I'm going to just grab it so I can hold it up because it's my favorite. But like, yeah, this book is so great. There's also Ninth Street Women, which I describe, like, if we've traveled the mountain of Abstract Expressionism, that book shows us the history of Abstract Expressionism on the other side of the mountain, and it connects the male and female story. So I will say, like, only post college did I really start learning about the history of women in design. There's a book called Bauhaus Women which really talks about the women of Bauhaus. But I don't know, I feel like the generation now that are in school are probably learning about women, but I did have to find it on my own a bit more.

Amber A.C. (8:31)

Yeah, I feel that way too. It was more of a post college learning and books that we didn't really use in college that are highlighting women better than some of the history books we did use in college. And I'm so curious. I should talk to someone who's younger and see, like, are you learning about women more and who and does it feel more equal now to you kind of a thing. Because I would be curious how much it's changed over time.

A.D. Goodrich (9:00)

Yeah, I mean, there's like the fact that this Charlotte perian exhibition in 2019 was at the Louis Vuitton Foundation. That means it comes with an exhibition catalog, a book, and then it ends up in the museum shops and on people's bookshelves, and then people really start to talk about her. So I think we're seeing a lot more curatorial effort towards telling that side of the story. And with that, it does trickle down into the zeitgeist a bit more.

Amber A.C. (9:29)

It's really exciting to see this resurgence of women in design. And I really want to talk about, of course, your career and how you got into everything that you're doing now. Your first notable job, which is really impressive, was dressing windows for Barneys New York and anthropology. You've mentioned that your work with retail displays ignited your passion for set design, merging your artistic sensibility with practical construction skills. And so you transitioned into set design after moving to LA in 2009, working for Film commercials and photo shoots, and working with photographers like juco, which led to collaborations with major brands. What was it about this experience that made you realize set design was your true calling?

A.D. Goodrich (10:21)

Yeah. So I left art school being like, oh, no, why did I go to art school? I studied, like you said. I studied painting and drawing and fibers and architectural preservation and jumped around the school of the Art Institute of Chicago. Only a couple years later, almost got discredited as a school because their curriculum, like, we. We didn't have grades, it was kind of all over the place. It's an incredible school, but at the time it was just like, dig into everything, explore everything. And that's what I did. And when I graduated, I was working for this artist, Tony Fitzpatrick, who is incredible and pretty well known. I was his studio assistant. We were flying to New York, hanging his shows and meeting with curators. And I just felt like it doesn't feel right to me to make art. It didn't feel right. The model of I'm an artist and what I do as solely my idea turns into a painting on a wall for a rich person's living room. Like, to me, that felt really strange. And I also felt like, why does my story matter that much? And so fast forward when I left school and moved to Los Angeles because I got a job miraculously doing window displays. I also teamed up with a brand new friend and a group of friends and we started a film collective called Sirocco Research Labs. One of those people being Jimmy Marble, who's now a well known photographer. But we started making films together and I would do window displays from 4am to 2pm and then go over to our loft. I became the set designer because I was the one that grew up doing woodworking and I knew how to build, but I didn't know what I was doing. And I finally started to see that this was actually where I needed to be. Instead of me saying like, this is the art I want to make. It's all about me. Let's put it on a wall. It was now a team effort, right? And going back to working class roots, it also felt like I'm part of the system of makers rather than like the soul maker. So I had a director with a script and he gave it to me and there's no images with the script. I'm visualizing what that story might look like. And I had a DP that was lighting it. And we would talk about the color of light and I would use textures and materials to inform a feeling in this space. And I was so smitten. And the art education of jumping from fibers to screen printing to architectural preservation, painting and drawing actually made a lot of sense. Because now with this newfound love of set design, you had to actually be like a jack of all trades and know all materials. So it finally made sense for me and my experience in building and I guess multiplicities of mediums, it finally made sense for me to have a place in set design.

Amber A.C. (13:11)

I love that, that 360 experience that you're talking about. And so you consider yourself a spatial designer, is that right?

A.D. Goodrich (13:21)

That's right. Yeah.

Amber A.C. (13:22)

That definitely does make me think about being in a space. And you're considering every detail in that space as well, whether that's set design or large scale installations or commercial interiors, and of course furniture design included in all of that. And so you co founded Sing Sing Studio with your partner, filmmaker Sean Pecknold, where you create environments that bridge storytelling and design. Some of your clients include Google, Apple, Target, Nike and Headspace. You've also made your mark in retail design, which is how I first found out about you. With notable highly photogenic spaces in Atwater Village like Wine and Eggs and Lisa says ga. And if that's not enough, you recently launched your own furniture line called Sing Thing. I'd love to hear more about your process with all of that. How do you approach storytelling in such diverse mediums, from set design to furniture creation?

A.D. Goodrich (14:28)

I think the fact that I spent 15 years reading scripts and reacting visually to the written word, I really can't get away from narratively driven spaces. Also, going to a really conceptual art school, coupled with reacting to a script, it's always about the story, so it's never about the medium. I think what's more interesting is reacting to a prompt from a client or collaborator and putting intention and narrative behind it to make decisions. So you mentioned the Wine and Eggs, like there's a whole story around it. Right. The process of choosing materials and colors and designing a space or an object always is informed by the story that I create first. So when we're choosing materials or making choices about forms in the space, it goes back to that story, which is truly just the experience of working on set and working in a collaborative environment that you're reacting to a story.

Amber A.C. (15:35)

Do you picture Wine and Eggs as kind of a set within a film? And what is the story of that film?

A.D. Goodrich (15:44)

A hundred percent. And I also. At our studio, Sing Sing, we were also doing photography, so doing big photo campaigns, like, for. We would do a lot of target photo campaigns. And so I'm also framing up. I think also in film and photography, you're framing up and creating a composition. Right. That isn't 360. You don't walk around it. But we're also making those compositions. And in painting, you're also creating compositions. So, yes. Always thinking about the film still. Always thinking about what this would look like as you walk in if a picture was taken of it, what would it be? Flat. And what would it look like as an actual film still in a film or a photograph that's so impressive.

Amber A.C. (16:27)

It's such a really unique perspective on design and designing spaces too, because sometimes designing spaces, you don't really have that photography experience like you do. And so now it feels like every moment and every detail is thought through and different perspectives of different people coming in and what would they be doing, and things like tattoo and. Yeah, it's such a fun space to go into. Like, I always love walking in there and just noticing new things every time. And it's so fun. And I recommend anyone who lives in LA to definitely go to Atwater Village and see 80s spaces that she's created. But I'm curious to know, how did you navigate the challenges of establishing yourself in a field that's often competitive and fast paced?

A.D. Goodrich (17:20)

I remember when I started getting into set design, I had quit my job doing window dressing after about like a year and a half, which is really dangerous living in a new city without much money, family support, you know, just, I'm going to quit my job, became a house cleaner for a moment and started doing production design, set design and production design and had no money. But I, I think what I did was the, the best decision I ever made was I committed to doing full 360 design, meaning if I was given a job that was prop styling, I wasn't interested. If I was given a job on a commercial that was about, we're going to walk into this house and we just need to set, dress it, maybe add some new colors, I wasn't interested. And I really made it a point to only accept jobs that were floor to ceiling design jobs. No matter how broke I was, I would work it out, you know, and this wasn't intentional to create like a career out of that. But I think being really strong in your convictions and sticking to, like, what you want to do will only create more work that you want to do. So being picky and doing whatever it takes to continue to make that work, I think is what has made a bit of success in my career so far. But fingers crossed that could all go downhill.

Amber A.C. (18:38)

It sounds very much like your aspirations are what led you to where you are now, and you had your sight set on bigger, better, and really getting to work on the things that you absolutely love and that you're passionate about and letting that create the career that you've led so far too.

A.D. Goodrich (19:02)

I would say, like, if someone young is listening, it's like, really stick to it. Do what you believe in. Don't follow trends, don't follow what you think other people want you to do, but just do what you want to do and really push it and do whatever it takes. Like work with your friends, work on jobs that pay nothing. After a while you can't do that. But I think it's really important. When you're young and you don't have kids and a mortgage and all of those things, that does take a lot of responsibility. Do what you really love and think beyond trends and think beyond expectations. It's really important to do that.

Amber A.C. (19:40)

That is such good advice. I love that. And I totally agree with that too. Sometimes you have to do that thing you have to do that process in order to get to where you want to be and in order to prove yourself and even explore what you're doing. And if you love it that much, then, yeah, like it's gonna make you happy, even if the money isn't always there immediately. So today we're talking about Charlotte and I see so many parallels with your life and all the stuff we've already talked about and with Charlotte's life too. But I do wanna know or want to hear directly from you why you chose to talk about Charlotte today. Starting my studio, Nice People was a thrilling yet challenging journey. But having a mentor by my side was transformative. I received invaluable advice on how to run my business. And now that I'm seven years into my successful, award winning studio, I'm excited to offer that same support to you. I've now hit 51 on one sessions and I'm here to help empower your creative journey. Join me for personalized mentor calls on Intro co Amber AC and now back to the show.

A.D. Goodrich (20:52)

Yeah, I think the COVID of her book, right? The COVID of Charlotte Perry Inventing a New World says it all. What a badass, right? So like, like she's okay. So just in case people are listening, there's a picture of her shirtless, her back is to the camera, her two hands are lifted like rejoicing at the world in front of a mountain range. And it's so epic, right? What a badass woman. But then the work is really good and iconic. Like she worked with Corbusier. A lot of people call him Corbu, so I'll also call him Corbu. But historically Corbu is seen as an asshole. And the fact that she worked with him for 10 years and could deal with that, I think is also a testament to like how strong she is in that time in the 20s and the 30s, working in a super male dominated world and creating such iconic pieces. So her work inspires me, of course, her use of materiality, but more so her personality and existence. To work in this male dominated world I think is really inspiring and I hope more and more people hear about her, especially females.

Amber A.C. (22:09)

She died over 20 years ago and I wish there was more video footage of her. It would be so wonderful to just experience her in real life because she's so fascinating. So just to touch on some of the sources and these will be linked in the show notes as well, there's the Guardian article about her and a Charlotte Periand autobiography that she wrote called A Life of Creation. And then there's the book Living with Charlotte Periand and a book called Charlotte the Modern Life. And so you can look at all of those in the show notes. But just to give our listener a quick overview of who she is, she lived from 1903 to 1999, and she was a pioneering French designer and architect known for her significant contributions to modernist furniture and interiors. And like you pointed out, you can't really talk about Charlotte without talking about Le Corbusier, and vice versa. She collaborated with him on and off for nearly three decades, designing iconic pieces like the LC4 Chaise Lounge. And later, she brought a unique blend of Western and Eastern design influences into her work. After spending time in Japan, Periand was a trailblazer in advocating for functional, human centered design, though her contributions were often overshadowed by her male counterparts during her lifetime.

A.D. Goodrich (23:41)

Charlotte was born in Paris on October 24, 1903. The math is 121 years ago. And what's so cool about her, and I think what inspired her, is that her mother was a seamstress and her father was a tailor. So that instilled her love of precision and attention to detail. From an early age, Charlotte sought to merge the functional with the beautiful. So what works and what looks good? A philosophy she would later define as the art of living.

Amber A.C. (24:11)

And her high school art teacher noticed her drawing abilities early on, and so she enrolled at a art school in Paris. And in French, it's called Ecole des Arts Decoratives or Decoratives. And this was in 1920, at the age of 17. And it was there that she immersed herself in studying interior design and furniture. And it was also during this time that she began to gravitate toward materials like chrome, aluminum, and glass, which were still quite radical for that era. Her early years at the school laid the groundwork for her future career, where she would constantly push the boundaries of what was considered modern.

A.D. Goodrich (24:58)

So two years after graduating from the school in Paris, Perianne became known for her experimental use of industrial materials in domestic settings, which was very different from what was happening at the time. Let's keep in mind, this is after Art Deco. She studied with people in Art Deco. A very famous Art Deco artist, she grew up with Art Deco, and all of a sudden, two years after graduating, she's starting to put industrial materials into her spaces. This is a significant departure from the decorative arts at the time. It's around this time, two years after graduating, that Le Corbusier was already an influential figure in the world of modern architecture and design at this Time. He's well known for his groundbreaking theories on functionalism, urban planning, and the use of modern industrial materials in his designs. He's known worldwide. In Paris and beyond, his radical ideas were shaping architecture and design, making him a prominent and somewhat controversial figure at the time. Charlotte Perian was also keeping an eye on his work. Specifically, she loved his book that he wrote in 1923 called Towards a New Architecture. And I think she really vibed with it because she thought that his writings that criticized the decorative arts aligned with the way that she designed. So he's writing about the anti art deco. She's making the anti art Deco work at the time. In 1927, Charlotte Perian went to Corbusier's office and said, I want a job. And historically, he said, the worst line ever. We don't embroider cushions here. Which is such a perfect thing for Corbusier to say because he's an asshole. But basically, like, girls aren't allowed in this studio. This is architecture. And my architecture, which, you know, was well known and respected at the time, was only for males. I'm pretty sure that very same year he saw Charlotte's work in Paris and hired her on the spot. So taking back what he said, that females can't work at a studio, and he hired her, which is really impressive that at first she was seen as a female and then her work shined through and her work is what got her the job. Not the fact that she was or was not a female, but that her work was really exceptional. She's like in her early 20s and Corbusier says, you need to work at my studio.

Amber A.C. (27:18)

Yeah. And like another reminder, this is a hundred years ago. I wonder if having Charlotte in his life really helped him balance his perspective of women just a tiny little bit maybe. But I was doing the math while you were talking, and he's actually 16 years older than her, so that helps to put things into perspective too, of what their age range looked like and how she looked up to him and how he was a little more established in his career by the time she was starting to get started. And I imagine even a hundred years ago, that 16 year gap was probably even bigger feeling than it would be today. And so to talk a little more about this story, rather than letting this rejection stop her, she persisted. And that's impressive. That shows so much resilience on her part. So that same year that she was rejected by him, she presented this really big project called Bar Surf, and it's this minimalist industrial piece Made from chrome and glass that broke away from traditional decorative furniture, the bar's stripped back functionality and use of materials typically reserved for industrial purposes shocked the design world at the time. Her design received wide praise from the press and established her as a talent to watch. It also caught the attention of Le Corbusier's cousin and collaborator, Pierre Jeanneret, who urged Le Corbusier to reconsider her. And so the bar's modernist use of glass and steel and aluminum perfectly embodied the functional and industrial aesthetic of Corbu. And so, after seeing her exhibit and realizing the depth of her talent, she won him over and he invited her to join his studio. And so this resilience in the face of adversity would become a hallmark of her career. Something that she just does again and again and doesn't let things stop her. And it also marked the beginning of their decade long collaboration, with Charlotte becoming a key figure in his studio. The combination of artistry and persistence led her to reshape how we think about materials and design. And she was determined to make furniture that was not only aesthetically appealing, but also functional and accessible to everyday people, which is a very big theme in her career. She was not satisfied with creating designs just for the well off. She wanted to work for Le Corbusier and pursue serial production and low cost housing.

A.D. Goodrich (30:07)

I love the idea of like 20 year old Charlotte Perrianne making this exhibition. Like, you know, it's so incredible. We see the images and you take them for what they are like. Beautiful space. Got it. Looks super cool, impeccable. But she's just graduated again. What an incredible woman. And it was a redo of what she had done at her apartment. Right. She like did it at her apartment and then redid it for this exhibition. So how incredible is she? Once Perianne joined the studio, Corbusier really wanted her to oversee the interiors and the furniture. So that was her place in the studio. He was all about architecture and he really wanted her to be in the details with that work. She talks about their collaboration being really, really tight, like three best friends. She also says that there were like three fingers on one hand. Together the team would design some of the most iconic furniture pieces of the modernist era, including the LC1 sling chair, the LC2 Grand Comfort armchair, and the Chai Lounge LC4. These designs, which are also still in production today, were revolutionary for their minimalist aesthetic and use of tubular steel. So let's think about this. LC1, LC2 and LC4. In 1928, those three iconic chairs were made in one year, drawn up by Charlotte Perignon, like, Incredible. And she was 25 years old. So the LC1 sling chair of 1928 is a simple and sophisticated chair with a tubular steel frame and leather seat. Its design focuses on providing comfort while reflecting modernist ideals of minimalism and functionality. Perignon played a significant role in refining its proportions and ergonomic form, ensuring that it was both visually striking and comfortable. The LC2 and LC3 Grand Comfort armchairs were next. These armchairs are the boxy ones. They have structured seats. They're made of steel frames, leather cushions, and designed with strict geometry. So the ones that look like little boxes are those ones. They were meant to be comfortable, yet minimalist, a modern response to the more ornate furniture of the time. As we talked about, Perianne's influence was significant in designing the structure and materials of these chairs. Originally, these chairs were not in the chrome that we know them today. They were painted. So the original chairs have pops of color, which are really beautiful. And if I could ever have one, or maybe even buy one, I might repaint the steel in the light blue that I've seen painted originally. And then there was a LC4 Chai Lounge, also known as the Relaxing Machine. It's perhaps their most famous piece. It features a reclining leather seat suspended on a tubular steel frame, allowing the user to stretch out in comfort and lay down. Perrien was instrumental in designing the chaise. She actually used her own body to test its ergonomics. So when you sit in the LC4, you're actually feeling the way that Charlotte Perrianne's body would be on that chair, which is amazing that a chair is designed by a female with a female's body, because, as we know, most objects in the world are designed with the male body informing the design, which is pretty cool.

Amber A.C. (33:28)

This actually reminds me of a story I know of with Rae Eames. And she also worked on a lounge and also was informed by her own body and was known to bring in more of a feminine form to that chair as well. And that would have been, like, probably 30 or 40 years later, or maybe it was actually even 20 years, but still, like, that's really interesting. That was a common theme with some of these women who were furniture designers and became iconic for their work. And it was those moments when they were actually using their own body as inspiration.

A.D. Goodrich (34:06)

Amazing. And not even in a feminist way. It's just like, well, I'm the designer here. Because Corbusier doesn't want to deal with these details. So here we go. I'll base it on my body.

Amber A.C. (34:17)

Despite her major contributions, her work often went unrecognized, as the pieces were primarily attributed to La Corbusier. The collaborative dynamic of this trio in the studio, it was complex and they worked closely together. But Corbu frequently took full credit for their designs, even though Charlotte and Jeanneret contributed significantly to both the conceptual and technical aspects of the furniture. The thing is, Corbu had a strong personality, or I think, more bluntly put, he was an asshole. He had a penchant for self promotion, and he often positioned himself as the primary creative force behind the studio's work, leading to a widespread misconception that he was solely responsible for the designs that came out of the studio. So, for example, even though Charlotte was heavily involved in designing the LC4, it was attributed solely to him for many years. And Charlotte, being pragmatic and passionate about her work, continued to contribute to these projects without seeking the limelight. But this erasure of her contributions was a source of frustration for her. In one instance, during a discussion about the LC2 armchair, she famously recalled that Le Corbusier was more interested in the broader conceptual framework of the furniture. While she and Shaun Array worked out the details, such as the dimensions, materials and comfort level, she often spoke of her hands on approach on testing the furniture, literally using her own body as a model. And for years, she was written out of history, with many assuming the designs were solely the work of male architects. It wasn't until much later in life that she began receiving the credit she deserved for her role. And she worked tirelessly at the studio, so she should have received all of this credit that she put so, so much time into perfecting each piece. And they were so perfect and are still around today because of how perfect they are. And I would say that's all thanks to Charlotte's work on them. And so I like this part though, is that Corbu eventually acknowledged her genius, noting in his memoirs that Charlotte Perian extended the field of modern furnishing, transforming it into a vast, generous domain where the problems of life are approached with dignity and imagination. So he finally came around, even though it was much, much later. But, you know, his ego was broken down a little more at that point and he was finally able to acknowledge Charlotte.

A.D. Goodrich (37:21)

Yeah, I also think, like, he did respect her, although, like, the work was attributed to him, like it was his studio. I think he respected her more than other females. Like with Eileen Gray, he literally went into Eileen Gray's house, which was near his house in the south of France while she was gone and painted a big mural inside of her house. So disrespectful. But with Charlotte Perrien, I think he, he really did respect her. Like there's a picture of her, it's a portrait of her, and you notice a little hand holding like a plate behind her head. And what he's doing is he's making her look like an angel with this plate behind her head. Find that image. But it's really amazing. So I think he really respected her. But it's even more amazing to talk about it and give her the credit that she was due. So after working with Corbusier for a decade, Charlotte and Corbusier experienced a falling out, in part due to political differences. Tensions began to rise during the 30s as their views on society and politics diverged. Perianne became increasingly involved in left wing politics and was deeply influenced by the rise of communism and socialism in Europe. Perianne saw design as a tool for social change and became passionate about creating functional and affordable furniture for the working class, not just the elite. She believed that design should serve society at large, not just be an object that can be bought by rich people. Corbusier, on the other hand, had more complicated political views and he was known to have connections with the authoritarian regimes, which was totally against what Perian was believing. So in 1937, Perian left Corbu's studio and began to pursue her own path. Yes, she was influenced by her desire to address social issues more directly through her designs. There are also indications that a lack of recognition which we talked about may have also contributed to her decision to leave as well, which makes total sense. After working with him for 10 years, she was like, okay, I need to go on my own. She probably had a lot of confidence at that point and knew that she could make it happen. So in 1940, Perianne was then invited by the Japanese government to advise on Industrial Designs. 1940, this is during the war, right? So this move to Japan during World War II had a profound influence on her work. Perianne was really inspired by the Japanese craftsmanship and their harmonious relationship with nature. These influences would appear in her later designs, especially in her use of natural materials like bamboo and wood. While in Japan, Perianne was tasked with advising on design for industrial production. She was actually asked by the Japanese government to figure out a way to export Japanese goods and objects and furniture to Europe. She came in as a specialist on furniture design. And so that's why she was There for five years, she even participated in tea ceremonies and studied Zen philosophy, which greatly influenced her approach to design. The organic shapes and natural materials she encountered in Japan stood in stark contrast to the industrial materials she had used earlier in her career. Okay, so let's pause and reflect upon the change here in Charlotte's life. So in her early 20s, you can see images of Charlotte Perian wearing this handmade ball bearing necklace. She celebrated machine made furniture, and now she turns to nature. Her work starts to use wood and natural materials. And this is why I love Charlotte. She isn't one dimensional. Throughout her life, we see her grow and change, and this is what makes her work more interesting to me and I'm sure everybody else. Her curiosity shapes the work. It's not trends, and she's not beholden to one style. She goes from like the machine girl that wears ball bearings as a necklace to like, I'm going to work with bamboo and wood. Okay, so Perrion's time in Japan was cut short, obviously, by the outbreak of war, and she was forced to return to France. However, the experience remained deeply ingrained in her work, and she continued to blend Eastern and Western design principles throughout the rest of her career. Reflecting on her time in Japan, she said, quote, the lessons I learned from Japan were not about materials or techniques alone, but about the importance of simplicity and restraint in creating spaces for human life to unfold, which is so beautiful. Her time in Japan from 1940 to 1946 was transformative both for her and for Japanese design.

Amber A.C. (42:08)

Yeah, I love that story. And it's so interesting how she even had an influence in Japanese design, too. Just to talk a little more about her design ethos and philosophy, which is so important in her career. So after the war, she returned to Europe and she was in high demand at this point. So she's about in her 40s, I believe. And she continued to work on large scale projects, and she worked on the League of Nations building for the United nations in Geneva and the remodeling of Air France's offices in London, Paris and Tokyo. Her approach to interior design was so forward thinking for her time. Today, we often know of interior design as curating a mix of furniture from different designers, but she preferred to design the entire suite of furniture for her projects. She really touched every bit of the space. She believed in creating cohesive environments where every element, from the architecture to the furnishings, aligned with her vision of functionality, simplicity and harmony. And this approach was rooted in her philosophy that furniture should serve the space and the people inhabiting it. Rather than being decorative, she was less interested in mixing styles and more focused on designing environments that reflected a singular vision rooted in modernist principles. That reminds me a lot about what we were talking about with your work in terms of letting an entire space come together with one story or with this singular vision as she was seeing things too. And so she insisted on designing all the furniture, of course. And this set her apart from many of her contemporaries and helped solidify her reputation as a designer who prioritized functionality and the needs of the user above everything else. It was also reflective of the broader modernist movement too. And this movement is what sought to create harmony between architecture, furniture and the human experience. And so one of the things that she said was, quote, the most important thing for me has always been the human element. Design is not about the object itself. It is about how that object affects the people who use it.

A.D. Goodrich (44:43)

Slow cook.

Amber A.C. (44:43)

Such a good philosophy.

A.D. Goodrich (44:45)

I mean, yeah, incredible. So beautiful. I'm gonna talk about Unity d'habitation in Marseille, France, which is the time that Charlotte came back to Corbusier after striking out on her own. He called her up and said, I have this project, I think you're gonna like it. And of course she did this collaboration mark a return to working with Corbusier after their earlier split and highlighted their mutual interest in social housing solutions and functional design. So post war Europe, everything is destroyed. This is the perfect time to explore what it looks like to create low cost housing for people that really need it. So she works with Corbusier on this. Perianne's role focused on creating functionality, compact and flexible interior spaces that aligned with her vision of modernist user centered design. Corbusier obviously led the project as the architect, but Perianne collaborated closely with him in designing the interiors of the apartments and all of the built in furniture and objects. She applied her expertise in modular furniture design to maximize limited space. These spaces were really small, 840 square feet for the Europeans. That's about 78 square meters. So tiny little spaces. So she used built in storage solutions and space saving furniture, ensuring that each unit in the housing complex was both practical and comfortable for its residents. She also used an open plan design, which was an innovative concept at the time. She's sliding partitions in multifunctional furniture to create flexible spaces that could adapt to different uses throughout the day. A couple of examples of these designs were the fold down dining tables that were integrated into the kitchen area and fold away beds that could be stored upright against the wall when not in use. This building is so beautiful. I feel like a lot of her work is captured in black and white, so you don't get to see the color. But there are some really beautiful walkthrough kind of documentaries on YouTube that are worth the watch to see the beautiful colors, actually, that I'm sure she had a part in. But yeah, this space was a collaboration where they came back together, which I think also speaks to perryann's character that she could go back to someone that maybe she had a falling out with and work together again, which is really beautiful and really cool to think about.

Amber A.C. (47:16)

Yeah, I think she understood that their collaborative nature really did create the best results. They both had different strengths that they brought to these projects. And this was a time when they really knew each other and they really understood each other's design approach. And it just created this project that it's been talked about to this day and is just always referenced and all of that. And I think it was because at that point they just really melded well together. And they continued to work on and off together for the next 20 or so years. But one project that became one of her crowning achievements was the design of the Lezarx ski resort in the French Alps. And so we can't not talk about this project either. She was responsible for designing the interiors of the ski resort's rooms and then again focusing on creating modular, functional spaces that could accommodate the needs of both residents and tourists. During her work on Les Arcs, she was known for her hands on approach. She lived in the mountains for extended periods and personally supervised the construction process. Wow. Really seeing a project through to the very end and being there and helping through the process that takes so much time and attention and focus and design integrity. Like, she had to be there. Very hands on with all of it. And she said, quote, I like being alone when I visit a country or historic site. I like being bathed in its atmosphere, feeling in direct contact with the place without the intrusion of a third party. And so her approach to design includes taking in the site and appreciating it for what it is. And I like that. I mean, it's like some people will move to a house first before they do any work on it, and they want to get a feel for its space and all of that. And that's what this reminds me of, is she wants to feel like a resident first so that she can really make sure that this makes sense with the environment. She focused on the use of sustainable materials and made sure that the interiors blended seamlessly with the natural landscape. These apartments were compact too. She wanted to provide a sense of spaciousness. And she was very clever with space saving techniques and multifunctional furniture. Again, that you can put away and have more space when you needed it. And this project wasn't without its difficulties. So she faced pushback from developers who were more concerned with profit than with her vision for sustainability and functional design. But she fought to ensure that her principles of human centered design were maintained. And she once remarked that design is not simply an art of arrangement, but a way of creating living spaces that respond to the needs of the people who inhabit them. So again, I see so much design integrity there.

A.D. Goodrich (50:33)

So in the final decades of her life, Perriann finally started getting the recognition that she deserved. She was appointed Commander of the Order of Arts and Letters by the French Ministry of culture in 1985, acknowledging her significant impact on the arts. Also in 1998, shortly before her death, the French government awarded her the Legion of Honor, one of the country's highest distinctions, and posthumously. Her legacy has been celebrated through exhibitions and reissued designs, most notably in a major retrospective held at the Centre Pompidou in Paris in 2005, which solidified her place as a key figure in modernist design. Also, her exhibition at Foundation Louis Vuitton was a huge exhibition which chronicled, like, all of her work. And it was so beautiful. And that's really the tome, the book Charlotte Perian Inventing a New World. Please buy it. It is so good. And obviously her work continues to influence everybody in contemporary design. All of her pieces are being reissued and recognized. When you go to the casino website, the LC 1234 not only has Le Corbusier's name, but it also has Charlotte Perrin's name, which was not original, which kind of came afterwards. Today, Charlotte Perian's pieces are considered obviously icons of modern design. And her philosophy that she blends functionality with aesthetics continues to inspire so many designers. Her work is so beautiful, so simple. And I think, like, what is so special about her work is the confidence in simplicity that she brings to it.

Amber A.C. (52:14)

And of course, one thing to really call out is she wrote an autobiography, which is not normal for all these women designers that we've talked about. There is so little history on some of the women we've covered. And it's so great that she has her own autobiography to reflect back on, on her entire career. It's called A Life of Creation, or in French, Une Vie de Creation. And it was published in 1998 and offered a personal account of her extraordinary career and life. And it also reflects her entire six decade long journey. So the publication came just one year before her death and provided a rare opportunity for her to share her personal story and her legacy. And much of her life had been overshadowed by male collaborators. So this was her moment to really speak for herself. And so one thing to call out is that this book has since become an important source of insight into modernist design and really understanding her contributions and her motives and philosophy of design. And what's also nice is she discusses the challenges she faced as a woman in a male dominated field, which you didn't really address in the 90s that much either, or I think very few people addressed stuff like that. And she also lived to see her work embraced by a new generation of designers. And so her name started to really come out around this time. And it was also thanks to her book. With all of that said, I would love to know what is your biggest takeaway from her story?

A.D. Goodrich (53:59)

I guess what I like, love most about her is that she was working at a probably like the coolest studio at the time. Right. Her interest was still to make furniture for everybody and to design pieces for everybody and to design for people to live with these objects. So she's strong in character, she's a confident designer and I think that's what I respect about her the most.

Amber A.C. (54:25)

Yeah, I would say for me it's so impressive, this idea of becoming a vessel and seeing herself as the means to create designs for other people and that she somewhat removes herself from that a little bit and removes her ego from it and is creating stuff where she's really keeping in mind the person that's going to use it. And I think there's a lot of like Buddhist theology and all of that too and really thinking about connecting people through design. And it's such a good reminder that at the end of the day, that's what design is all about and that's what we're here for. And it's a reminder for me as a designer to really think about all of those details and to think about the person and not me and to remove myself from the process and to also see a project through to the end, which is sometimes hard to do. Like even when I'm working on like packaging and objects that are going to get printed and would hopefully be functional and all of that. It's sometimes easy to just let the manufacturers or the printers work out all those details, but it is a good reminder to really stick it out to the end because that really is sometimes the hardest part is all of those details at the end.

A.D. Goodrich (55:45)

Amber, thank you so much for having me. That was so cool.

Amber A.C. (55:49)

Yeah, thank you. It's been so great to hear your insights on everything and especially your experience with a lot of similar design projects. And so it's so exciting to have you here and I can't wait to keep seeing this amazing things you're creating as well. A special thanks to AD Goodrich for sharing her perspective today. Addie's own work reflects a similar dedication to storytelling through design, and her projects show just how powerful design can be in shaping spaces and experiences. Be sure to check out AD Studio Sing Sing and follow along with her incredible journey. And before we wrap up, I want to remind you again, if you've enjoyed listening to this podcast, please leave a written review. Your support helps us keep these stories alive and reach a wider audience. Together, we can ensure these women are recognized for their contributions. Thank you so much for listening. See you next time. And until then, let's redesign history by celebrating women.