← Women Designers You Should Know
Women Designers You Should Know
032. Elsa Schiaparelli: Where Fashion and Surrealism Began (w/ Darrian Wright)
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Hear the extraordinary life of Elsa Schiaparelli. From her rebellious youth and surrealist collaborations to her iconic designs like the lobster dress and shocking pink, discover how Schiaparelli redefined fashion as art and left a legacy of daring innovation, with guest and fashion enthusiast, Darrian Wright.
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- [00:00]
Darian Wright
Foreign.
- [00:08]
Amber A.C.
Hello. Welcome back to another episode of Women Designers. You should know, the podcast where we explore the legacies of forgotten women. I'm your host, Amber A.C. and I'm so excited about today's episode because we're diving into the life of one of fashion's boldest pioneers, Elsa Schiaparelli. Known for her boundary pushing designs, surrealist collaborations, and her signature shocking pink, Schiaparelli was a true artist who forever changed the way we think about fashion. Joining me today is a very special guest, my friend, Darian Wright. Darian is not only a passionate fashion enthusiast, but someone I've personally learned so much about the history and artistry of fashion from. And I couldn't think of a better person to help explore Schiaparelli's life, her groundbreaking innovations, and her lasting influence. So let's get started inside.
- [01:09]
Darian Wright
Their legacy. These women, they wait for you and me and her she breaking boundaries, building a better world. Women Designers, you should know. You should know. Women desire. You should know.
- [01:53]
Amber A.C.
Welcome to the podcast. Darian, Hi.
- [01:57]
Darian Wright
I'm so excited to be talking with you. Thank you so much.
- [02:00]
Amber A.C.
Yeah, I'm so excited to dive into all things Schiaparelli. But before we chat, you don't necessarily work in the fashion field. You don't have a degree in fashion, and yet you still know so much about fashion. So tell us more about what got you into all of the fashion history and red carpet stuff and all of that.
- [02:25]
Darian Wright
I don't know if I can pinpoint exactly where an obsession with fashion began. I think I have always loved pop culture. I've always loved celebrity. But honestly, as I was reflecting on that a little bit, I think I grew up in such a glamorous time. Like, the woman that I remember seeing on television was Princess Diana, and she was like the pinnacle of fashion. And I honestly believe that that is where my obsession originated, because she was just the most glamorous, fabulous, and also effortless person. I think I became more interested in the business of it all. And there's so much business behind what you see on a red carpet. And there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes. And I think I've always been fascinated by something that looks so unique, easy, and so orchestrated. I really was always curious on what was going on behind there and all the people who were involved.
- [03:20]
Amber A.C.
So, yeah, in fact, I have to tell everyone about your red carpet stories or Instagram series. I feel like you should create your own account for this that is fully dedicated to this because it is my favorite thing, like When Darian pops up in my stories on Grammys night or on Oscars night, like, I am tapping on that because I want to participate and I want to see your opinion. But she basically rates and compares and talks through details and stories about all things red carpet and the designers behind each of the dresses, the stylists, what they were doing and giving, like, background and reasoning behind it. And I'm like, wow, you know so much about fashion that I've learned from you. What got you started on. On all of that?
- [04:12]
Darian Wright
You know, that started five years ago. Award season is kind of in the wintertime, so it's all coming. And then obviously it's not an award show, but the Met Gala is my absolute favorite thing to talk about. I try in my stories very hard not to make it comparison of the person. I try not to make it about, like, what is flattering or, you know, what works for his or her body type. I do not like that look at all. And I feel like I grew up in an era where everyone in magazines was doing who wore it best. I think there's a fine line there that I try to walk when I do those comparisons on my social media, because I want to talk more about, like, the element or the story or the message comparison between two people and less about the style or form fitting. I want to talk about fit. I want to talk about construction. And I really wanted to share what was on my mind, I guess.
- [05:11]
Amber A.C.
I mean, it is a really fun game to participate in. And also it's very educational, too. And I love that it's all about the story behind the dress or the outfit or whatever it is. And that is very Schiaparelli coded, too. I feel like I'm so excited to dive into her with you today because it's true. Like, the way that she approached her work is very deep. It's very methodical. And she's considered a genius when it comes to fashion. That people use that word when they talk about also Schiaparelli. And she also talks about herself as an inventor and not a designer. And so she is putting a lot of thought and a lot of story into each of her pieces.
- [06:01]
Darian Wright
Yeah, she would take a lot of artistic liberty with clothes, and she was totally criticized for that by her rival. Coco Chanel, called her an Italian artist who makes clothes, and that was considered an insult.
- [06:14]
Amber A.C.
Oh, yeah.
- [06:16]
Darian Wright
I find that really interesting. I do think there is at times with her work a simplicity that was disarming to people. It was so smart. That's what it is, is It. There was an intelligence behind her work that gave off the appearance of simplicity or amusement or humor. And I think that execution tends to look pretty streamlined, but all the thought behind it is usually, you know, complex. And she was a complex woman. And that complexity, ironically, would produce a lot of streamlined, simple jokes in her work that people got to decode.
- [06:53]
Amber A.C.
Yeah. Okay, so let's dive into her story, starting way back when she was born. She was born in 1890. She was born in Rome into an aristocratic family steeped in academia and privilege.
- [07:07]
Darian Wright
Yes, she was born into an incredibly wealthy family. She was practically born in a palace. But she did not enjoy that life.
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Amber A.C.
Her father was a scholar. He knew a lot about Islam in the medieval era, and he, like, was very smart. Her uncle, he was a famous astronomer who discovered the canals on Mars, and there's even a crater on the planet that's named after him. His name's Giovanni Schiaparelli. And then her cousin, Ernesto Schiaparelli is an Egyptologist and made significant tomb discoveries.
- [07:51]
Darian Wright
Yeah. For me, this is where the contradiction of Elsa Schiaparelli is born, literally as she is born into this world of opulence, education, and a deeply interesting life. And yet she was incredibly bored, and she was emotionally lonely. It's a irony that that was the case for her, and contradiction is such a theme in her work. And I find that the beginning of her life is the greatest contradiction. And honestly, into early adulthood, where she had every opportunity to. To learn and be deeply interested, but she was just completely bored by that lifestyle. And because this is really early in the 20th century, and there wasn't exactly the freedom yet that would come, and she would play a very large part in allowing for that freedom for women. But, yeah, it was an opulent lifestyle. It's interesting because you would think she has all the trappings of a Nepo baby. We can talk about why that wasn't exactly the case later on, but, yeah, that. That. That is where her journey starts.
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Amber A.C.
Yeah. Well, and it's interesting because I wonder what her parents thought of her when she became a fashion designer. Do we know?
- [09:01]
Darian Wright
So her father died actually before in House of Schiaparelli.
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Amber A.C.
Okay.
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Darian Wright
And I'm not entirely sure about what her mother's view of her success ended up being. Childhood. Her mother was not a fan of her.
- [09:17]
Amber A.C.
It sounds like her mother, Maria, favored Elsa's older sister, Beatrice, whom she praised for her beauty, and she actually criticized Elsa for being ugly. And this deeply affected Elsa, who retreated into a rich fantasy world to cope with her feelings. Of inadequacy.
- [09:38]
Darian Wright
Yes. There's a very famous story that she decided one day that she was going to fill, like, her nose and ears with sunflower seeds. I don't know if you've heard this story.
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Amber A.C.
Yes.
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Darian Wright
To become more beautiful. Honestly, a heartbreaking idea.
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Amber A.C.
Like, I wonder how old she was when that happened, because that does sound like a really sad child thing to do.
- [09:59]
Darian Wright
Yes. But she actually ended up having a wonderful relationship with her uncle, the astronomer. I think he introduced a lot of whimsy to her. He pointed out a constellation made up on her face with her freckles. They had a playful, whimsical relationship and he got to open her mind and he was supportive of her in a way that certainly her mother was not.
- [10:19]
Amber A.C.
Yeah. And the imagination that she took on as a child definitely defined the rest of her career. And then another thing that defined her career is her rebelliousness. So she was also a very difficult child. There was one infamous incident of her releasing a box of fleas under a dinner table during one of her parents social gatherings. How do you get a box of fleas in the first place?
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Darian Wright
1L I'm not sure, but it sounds.
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Amber A.C.
Like a nightmare to experience because fleas are the worst. I've experienced them with cats myself.
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Darian Wright
Yeah. She was a bit of a difficult child. I think she was really struggling, obviously, with the constraints of the life that she was born into and was rebelling against that life her entire career.
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Amber A.C.
Yeah. At the age of 21, she had been writing a lot of poetry. And this wasn't just normal poetry is very sensual poetry, maybe erotic. It's called Arethusa. And it was very scandalous of her to do because it ended up getting published.
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Darian Wright
Yeah.
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Amber A.C.
And that spread on to her family. And her family was just like in over their heads over this. They were so conservative and this was just like the worst thing that she could do. And so as a response to this, they ended up sending her to a convention in Switzerland where while she was there, this is my favorite part, she staged a hunger strike to get her released.
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Darian Wright
Yeah.
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Amber A.C.
So. And that worked.
- [11:53]
Darian Wright
Yes. She was a very determined person.
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Amber A.C.
So wild. And so by her early 20s, she started to tame a little bit and ended up studying philosophy at university. So that was very on par with her family for her to do that. But then there was also increased pressure for her to accept a marriage proposal from a Russian man that she was not in love with, but her family adored and desperately wanted her to marry. And so she seized an opportunity to become a nanny in London Just to kind of run away from this proposal.
- [12:29]
Darian Wright
Yeah. Before she moved to London, she did have kind of a first love experience and that was wrapped up in the kind of Russian suitor who pursued her multiple times. And I think that heartbreak did a lot to drive her away from Italy. And I think that's really important because if she would have stayed there, I don't think she would have met the people that she would go on to meet that would form her point of view and introduce her to the world of fashion. So she did experience kind of an early heartbreak and was generally unlucky in love after that.
- [13:02]
Amber A.C.
But yeah, yeah, I don't think I knew that part. Okay, so the next stage or phase of her life is when she actually met Count William. He was this very charismatic theosophist and they met in London. I believe that they were married in 24 hours after they met. And knowing that he's this charismatic man then that makes a lot of sense. He probably wooed her and maybe she was at a point where she was over that heartbreak and over this proposal thing happening and wanted to meet a man on her own terms. And that was just like everything came together.
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Darian Wright
Yeah.
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Amber A.C.
But sadly this relationship quickly soured because turns out William was a con man.
- [13:49]
Darian Wright
Yeah, charismatic was a nice way to describe him.
- [13:52]
Amber A.C.
Yeah, he was also, he was very persuasive and irresponsible and also unfaithful to her. But what he was doing was he was being a fortune teller and that was illegal at the time. And that led him to being deported and they moved to New York together and then he was deported from there. And so, yeah, I mean, quite the whirlwind of events for her those first few years. Meeting, marrying, moving to New York. They had a baby. That's when they had their daughter Gogo. And then he was deported and she was alone in New York.
- [14:30]
Darian Wright
Yeah, her time in London, where she met him, she actually has a moment of brilliance that I, I want to talk about because she's in the, the London scene, she has some social connections and she gets invited to a party, but she doesn't have anything appropriate to wear. And she decides to fashion her own gown, a no sew gown. And I think the important thing about Schiaparelli, which she was also criticized for, she really had no technical training. She never went to any type of fashion school. She was entirely self taught. And so she has this moment at a party in London where she grabs material and makes her own gown and then wears it to this social event where there's dancing and people are smitten by the design. And I think this was the first sparkle of her career that would come. But the funny thing about it is, as she's dancing with her partner, her dress is actually coming undone.
- [15:28]
Amber A.C.
Oh, no.
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Darian Wright
He dances her off the floor. And I just thought that was such a fabulous little detail that she. I think the gumption of someone to make their own outfit says a lot about them. Like that you weren't sewing properly or constructing maybe properly.
- [15:42]
Amber A.C.
Yeah.
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Darian Wright
But you could speculate that is her first design. She has a fashion moment in London and, yeah, she ended up being smitten. And I do wonder, right, if that heartbreak inspires a very quick marriage to someone who, yeah, was a con man. He is a count. And she does retain that title, that she's a countess, and that title gets passed down to her daughter. But it's very interesting and convenient that a con man also happens to have a noble title. I really looked into that. I've wondered about his origin. It was legit enough that, yeah, she technically was a countess.
- [16:19]
Amber A.C.
That's interesting. I did not know that detail.
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Darian Wright
Yeah.
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Amber A.C.
So while she's a single mom living in New York with her daughter, she, of course, started to be out of money and was very financially strained. And she was taking odd jobs and selling thrifted items for money and working as an extra in films. But despite all of this, New York was what introduced her to the vibrant community of avant garde artists. So we're talking about Marcel Duchamp, Francis Picabia and Man Ray. And these connections deepened her appreciation for surrealism and shaped her future aesthetic. So New York was groundbreaking for her. And this was like a really big turning point for her, too.
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Darian Wright
This is where the contradiction of being an EPO baby happens, because she's in New York, but she's actually penniless. So it's not her status or her standing that ushers her into this world. It is pure grit. After she gets pregnant or gives birth to her daughter, her husband leaves her immediately and she really did have to hustle. Frances Picabia's wife, Gabrielle, becomes her incredibly close friend and is essential to ushering Elsa into avant garde art surrealism. Later on, when they relocate to Europe, these connections will be invaluable. That's when her status actually comes into play later on in Paris. But here in New York, yeah, she's really struggling, but she's buoyed up by this friend who is keeping her exposed to know the movers and shakers in New York at the time.
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Amber A.C.
That's amazing. It's so weird because where is her family in all of this? Like, maybe she just too embarrassed to admit all of this was her fault, maybe. Or like she probably blamed herself for being at this point in her life and didn't want to reach out for money. I don't know.
- [18:22]
Darian Wright
She claims that she had a dream at this time in New York that her father was at the foot of her bed and she woke up knowing that he had died and he had. Obviously there's some questions about her own autobiography and kind of the detail and obviously everyone's own narration of their own life, but her father did die while she was in New York and she reconnects with her family at that time. But the relationship was definitely strained because they were not supportive of this marriage. So but then that marriage did, you know, end and I think the relationships improved.
- [18:58]
Amber A.C.
She moved to Paris for the reason of getting treatment for Go Go because Go Go had polio, which that would be so stressful as a mom and I can't imagine what that was like. And her friend, as you were mentioning, Gabrielle Picabia, who pushed her to move to Paris to get that life changing treatment for Gogo. And then of course, Go Go survived. And it was during this period in Paris that Elsa expanded her artistic network. She was becoming friends with more artists, including Pablo Picasso. And it seemed like she was just really surrounding herself with a lot of those people who maybe she viewed as being very like minded as her.
- [19:43]
Darian Wright
Yeah. She also has another friend named Blanche Hayes who was an extremely wealthy divorcee. She. Yeah. Was financially supportive of Elsa at that time. And so she gets set up in Paris and couldn't have had it better. She has a wonderful apartment, she has connected and interesting friends, and then gets a new path for her daughter. But I don't know if this is necessary to talk about with Elsa, but she was perhaps not a very present mother or. Well, yeah, developed polio because that was obviously what was happening in this era. But she had been kind of pawned off to a friend in New York and Elsa wasn't able to really raise her and be present. And then, yeah, when she saw her for a visit, it was clear to her that she had developed polio. And obviously I think some of this neglect would later impact their relationship. But, you know, Elsa probably maintains that she was just doing her best. Yeah.
- [20:38]
Amber A.C.
Yeah. And I think that sometimes women didn't get that choice to be a mom and were kind of expected to or forced into that. And who knows if Elsa ever really wanted that for herself. And. And so, yeah, it's true, she wasn't seen as the best mother, and Gogo had to reconcile with that later in her life and really push through that. Because how do you have this amazingly talented mother who's talked about and revered when you saw her as someone else? I bet that was really hard to deal with, too.
- [21:12]
Darian Wright
Totally. Yeah. To see someone give so much of themselves to the world and to their passions and then also feel neglected.
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Amber A.C.
Yeah, exactly. So now we get to the period where Elsa started to discover fashion. So at this point in her life, she was in her twenties in New York and in London, and she's in her, like, mid to late 30s. She's in Paris. She met Paul Poiret, the legendary designer known for liberating women from corsets. And so he became an early mentor for her, and he was the one who encouraged her to explore fashion as a career.
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Darian Wright
This is the early 1920s, and so women are experiencing a fashion and a liberation renaissance. We are breaking out of the classic corseted style. And honestly, in Post World War I, women are newly introduced to the world of sports. They have been taking on jobs that were typically only held by men. But the war kind of turned everything upside down, and there was this move into sportswear for the first time. And this is wonderful for Elsa Schiaparelli because she's already going to be going against the grain, but she embraces this move to sportswear, and her ideas come at the perfect time. So her meeting of Paul Poiret was perfect. She. She had a lot of meetings like that. She had incredibly good luck and was introduced to him through her social circles, thanks to her wealthy and interesting friends. And my understanding from Gabby is that she is in the social world, and she really wanted new outfits and she wanted new clothes. And Elsa was trying to make clothes for Gabby, and she was sketching, and she had a point of view she just couldn't. So when she comes across Poiret, who is this, like you mentioned, incredible creator of clothes, It's a perfect pairing. It's also interesting because designers at this time are not at all how we know them today. This was not necessarily a glamorous position, but Elsa Schiaparelli is the perfect example of someone who brings an artistic point of view that can't be ignored, but does not necessarily have the technical skill behind it. Whereas at this time, making clothes was all about only the technical skill and not the personality, not the point of view. So she honestly ushers in what would come in the next Two decades is the birth of the designer celebrity and it is because of her. So luckily she meets this man who has incredible skill and, you know, access to ateliers at the time, and he encourages her point of view and mentors her right at the perfect moment.
- [24:09]
Amber A.C.
That's amazing. And so her first collection at the age of 37 was a knitwear or a sweater collection, which surprised me because I think about all of her dresses and gowns and especially on the red carpet today, this house of Schiaparelli doing all of that. And so these sweaters that she created are considered trompe l'oeil sweaters. And they feature designs like a bow that was knit into the neckline or as if you were wearing a scarf. And these were an instant hit because no one was really doing this before. And so, yeah, like, as trompe l'oeil basically means it's a highly realistic optical illusion for three dimensional space and objects on a two dimensional surface. And so it's something that we've seen a lot at this time. But back then, nobody was really doing that kind of an illusion on a sweater because everything was literally what it was. It was a bow sewn to a sweater kind of a thing. And so she very literal. Yeah, she definitely, like, thought of this new way of inventing clothing and doing something that people weren't doing. And it was just like an entirely new concept and plays into her surrealist approach, really making kind of these like illusionary designs.
- [25:39]
Darian Wright
This is the point in Elsa's career where being from a wealthy and pedigreed background benefits her because no one had been doing what she was doing. And if she had been anybody else, no one would have cared. And I love that you mentioned that this is, you know, in her late 30s. I absolutely love this element of her life that it really shows, like it's never too late. Right. She had had, honestly, a string of life failures. Her marriage has ended, her daughter's ill, and she's in Paris with obviously the, the pedigree of her family. She's technically a countess. This is where doors do open for her, like they wouldn't have opened for other people. So rivalry with Coco Chanel has an element of this because Coco does not come from aristocracy and she had to work and grind a lot harder. And she was definitely resentful of that. Or Elsa, the backers at this time in Paris just show up. So she has backing from connections through Blanche, the woman I mentioned earlier. She gets her introduced to the co owner of Galeries Lafayette. And I think it's Charles Kahn. He backs her, and that helps her be able to get a collection together. And the way that that collection comes together and this new style that no one has seen before comes because Elsa notices a woman on the street in Paris wearing a sweater that is stitched differently than she has ever seen before. She approaches this woman and says, where did you get this sweater? And sweaters at this time are just not common pieces of clothing. This is a new world because women are no longer sitting in parlors. They're going out, they're going to the tennis club. Like, this is a new world. They want something like a sweater. This sportsw is totally new. And the struggle that sportswear had had at that time was that sweaters very quickly lost their shape. They looked frumpy in a way. We know that sweaters can lose their shape. So the way they're being constructed is. Can be pretty frustrating to the female figure. And she sees this stitch. It has a sturdiness that she has never seen before. And she actually tracks down where this woman got this sweater made.
- [28:00]
Amber A.C.
Wow.
- [28:01]
Darian Wright
And the woman who has made the sweater is Armenian. And she has a very special kind of stitch called the double layered stitch that actually allows two colors to come together. And that's how she creates this trompe l'oeil sweater of the bow, because the bow is white, and the rest of the sweater is black. Through this stitch, she tracked down wow with these Armenian women.
- [28:26]
Amber A.C.
Oh, she was determined.
- [28:27]
Darian Wright
Yeah, she was determined. She wore that sweater herself to a industry event or a luncheon that had many people in the industry.
- [28:36]
Amber A.C.
Okay. There.
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Darian Wright
And there is a representative from Lord and Taylor who orders 40 of these sweaters on the spot. So she's wearing her own design and gets, you know, immediate interest for something that is not very common, isn't even the right word. It's not common at all. It's not seen at all in fashion. It's definitely seen in surrealism. It's coming through in the art at the time. But that's why lightning strikes that she takes this idea from the high art moment and puts it into fashion, and then just happened to be at the right place at the right time, which is a really big element of her story. Right. Like, she just happened to be at this luncheon. And from there, Lord and Taylor orders the sweaters. And then that exact sweater is later featured in Vogue later that year as an artistic masterpiece, is the caption that gave that sweater. So this is absolutely the moment where she enters the stratosphere.
- [29:31]
Amber A.C.
But, yeah, like, just to kind of describe it even further, now that I have a photo of it, it's just a draped bow, so it even shows, like, shading under one of the bows. And so, yeah, it's definitely pretty quirky. Very whimsical.
- [29:47]
Darian Wright
Yes. I think one of the words she was famous for using was amusing. And this is going back to the idea of is it complex or is it simple? Is it deep, or is it actually not that deep? And I love that she poses that question because there is a lot going on in this stitch. Right. There's two colors. There's the shading you've mentioned. It's the way that bow being stitched, you know, is laying. But it's also so dead simple.
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Amber A.C.
Yeah. Two colors.
- [30:15]
Darian Wright
Yeah. It's a contradiction that plays in your mind. And people at this time were absolutely smitten with this.
- [30:21]
Amber A.C.
And it's so modern. People didn't see modern stuff like that at that time.
- [30:27]
Darian Wright
And I think a hallmark of something being modern is always that it's a little bit more simple, it's a little bit more streamlined. And, yeah, she was deeply modern and really pushing the boundaries away from traditional fashion.
- [30:41]
Amber A.C.
Yeah, I would say it's almost cartoon like.
- [30:44]
Darian Wright
Yes. It's almost silly. That's why I think amusing is such a good word, because it's not dumb. It's actually really smart. But it does make me smile and it makes me think, but not in a way that's too hard. You know what I mean?
- [30:56]
Amber A.C.
Yeah, exactly. So she also collaborated with Salvador Dali, and she was very much celebrated in the art world, too, which was great and had so many friends. And so her collaborations with Salvador Dali resulted in iconic pieces like the lobster dress and the shoe hat. Maybe we should talk about those real quick, too.
- [31:20]
Darian Wright
Yeah, let's talk about those. So oftentimes, Salvador Dali would put together some type of piece of work, and she would be deeply inspired by that work. I'm not sure, actually if the shoe hat was technically work he put out into the world, but it was inspired by. By a photograph that his wife took of a woman's shoe on his head. I'm sure it's in a museum now. I don't think that was actually, you know, considered his work at the time, but that's what inspired Elsa to collaborate with him on that design. It was just a personal thing. It's a joke in their friendship, this photo of him. And so, yeah, that inspired that very, very famous hat that is shaped like a woman's shoe.
- [32:05]
Amber A.C.
Just to describe It a little bit too. It's just a black, like, high heel, basically, but it's made or designed to sit on a head, too, so it's a little wider than an actual heel would be. And it was made to wear with a black dress and jacket embroidered with red lips, which were suggestive of those belonging to the voluptuous actress Mae west, for whom Schiaparelli was designing movie costumes at the time. And so, yeah, it's like a very unique design. Very quirky and whimsical, as you would say.
- [32:44]
Darian Wright
You know, Schiaparelli was really known for her love of accessories and designing whole outfits with accessories. That was an interesting concept to the fashion world and to marketing. Her first collaboration with Dolly was a rotary phone on a compact mirror. And, like, that is a great amount of detail to put into something so small. That's a lot of thoughtfulness for accessories. And she had fabulous gloves, and she really loved hats. And I think, to her, this was probably, in her mind, such a fun pinnacle moment to take an accessory like a shoe and make it an accessory like a hat. Like, how fun.
- [33:26]
Amber A.C.
Yeah.
- [33:26]
Darian Wright
And to her, it was fun. That's the thing. It was just fun. Probably she was celebrated, but there was many people, like I said, her rival, Coco Chanel, that found this utterly ridiculous. And I think there was a part of the fact that she was always in on the joke that really bothered her haters.
- [33:45]
Amber A.C.
Yeah. Well, and it's funny because on the flip side, Elsa Schiaparelli considered Chanel's minimalist work uninspired.
- [33:53]
Darian Wright
Yeah.
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Amber A.C.
And so it's funny how neither of them really got each other. They didn't understand what they were doing.
- [34:00]
Darian Wright
Yeah, they were both totally elite in the fashion world, but very different. And I think this isn't the Coco Chanel podcast, but she was really leaning into ready to wear and ease of wear and almost the repeatability of something. And that could not be further from Schiaparelli's point of view. So Dolly had a piece of work that was a lobster on top of a phone, and that inspired the lobster dress. She put him up to putting the lobster on this evening gown. And evening wear came later in Schiaparelli's career. So we're moving into the 30s now, and at the time, the most famous woman in the world is Wallis Simpson, because she has, you know, convinced the heir to the British throne to abdicate and to marry her. And she ended up wearing that dress.
- [34:53]
Amber A.C.
In vogue to talk more about some of her other revolutionary designs that she created. She created the wrap dress. And that's amazing that that all came from her. Like, that's trended and made so many different moves over the decades and everything. And to me feels like a dress from the 2000s, maybe just because of my own life and thinking that was when I saw it more. But it really comes back from maybe like the 30s or 40s or when whenever Elsa created that wrap dress.
- [35:27]
Darian Wright
Yeah. She was extremely practical when she wanted to be. Right. Not a lot that's practical about a shoe.
- [35:36]
Amber A.C.
Yeah. But, yeah, very practical. Another practical thing are her culottes that she created, which as women were wearing pants more, she found this, like, really nice merge between pants and dress because it was frowned upon to wear pants in public still. So at this time, she created these culottes, which was not as frowned upon to wear in. In public. You can wear this because it kind of passed as a dress.
- [36:06]
Darian Wright
Yeah. And I think the popularity of the function just couldn't be ignored. Even if it was against the standards of proper society at the time. The function couldn't be ignored. And so, you know, coming off of the huge success of her sweaters and her knitwear and, you know, then eventually she leaned into sportswear very heavily before getting into evening. And in the sportswear category, she even got to patent a swimsuit with a built in bra like that.
- [36:35]
Amber A.C.
Wow.
- [36:35]
Darian Wright
She was really thinking about function with swimsuits. I don't even want to use the word scandalous. They were just becoming unlike the swimsuits everyone was used to. And they were backless. And that introduced difficulties for women. And so she really wanted to answer that with a completely functional swimsuit with a built in bralette.
- [36:56]
Amber A.C.
Yeah, she was for sure a woman's designer. Like, she was solving problems for women and did that successfully. And women loved her clothes. And yeah, I feel like that was a very central part of her work.
- [37:11]
Darian Wright
Yeah, I'm a tennis player. I grew up playing tennis. And I had no idea until I did a little bit of, you know, digging that she practically invented the skort, which is to how women play sports and play tennis and now play pickleball. Like, she designed this divided skirt is what it was called at the time, and got a very famous tennis player, Lily de Alvarez, to wear that skirt and shocked the world. But the shocking nature of it is only overshadowed by how practical and beloved these pieces were, because it just allowed for a new level of movement for women.
- [37:55]
Amber A.C.
Absolutely. And a few other things that also complete the type of stuff that she was really interested in working on. She had really Unique buttons like insects and fruit. And this would add more whimsy to her work. Of course, she also got into jewelry design and accessories, creating surrealist necklaces and bracelets that doubled as conversation pieces. She was very much about the details with all of those buttons and jewelry and everything. And then if that's not all, she also had a perfume line that she launched in the 30s that became a hallmark of her brand. And so the fragrance, shocking, housed in a torso shaped bottle, inspired by Mae west, remained popular long after Elsa's death. And so I think it was actually her perfume line that went beyond her clothing or her fashion house for a while. When she closed her fashion house, her perfume line actually continued. And that's really impressive.
- [39:03]
Darian Wright
Yes. What I see here is not necessarily a legacy of construction and sewing and perfect execution. That's not what she's known for. She was known for her point of view that could be applied to clothing as well as accessories, as well as perfume. She just had such a strong way of bringing something to market that was unapologetic in whatever it was. And it definitely, to me, this is her legacy. And anything she would go for, she would go all the way in with the buttons and the fasteners. Like you mentioned, that won her, which I personally believe her lack of sewing skill may have led to a deep reliance on fasteners and roaches as buttons. Because actually, sewing a button right takes quite a bit of skill. And so that obsession with fasteners led to incredible collections that would eventually put her on the COVID of Time magazine as the first woman designer on time.
- [40:10]
Amber A.C.
Wow.
- [40:11]
Darian Wright
In 1934. And there's a hilarious quote in there where they said schiaparelli glorifies the gadget and persecutes the button. And I think that is such a funny way to be known as the persecutor of buttons.
- [40:25]
Amber A.C.
I love that story and I love that part of her, too. And it was after World War II that Elsa faced challenges as the industry shifted towards Christian Dior's new look. I think a lot of her work was probably too out there by this point.
- [40:43]
Darian Wright
It was a little bit too practical. She essentially invented the evening suit. Like she invented the idea of a long evening gown with an embroidered jacket, because that was a very functional way to go about the world. But the Christian Dior view of evening was extremely romantic. Huge, massive ball gown. Schiaparelli struggled a little bit. People wanted escapism of a different flavor, and they wanted, like, an ethereal look at the world. And she was a little Bit too amusing.
- [41:19]
Amber A.C.
Yeah. In fact, that was the 50s. Basically. Her fashion house closed in 1954 because of this shift in trends, but it came back in 2014. So closed from the 50s all the way up to 2014. That's like 70 years. And reopened as the House of Schiaparelli. But going back her perfumes and her licensing deals was what helped her to stay financially secure up all the way until she passed away in 1973. But then today, the House of Schiaparelli is under the direction of Daniel Roseberry, and the brand continues to honor her spirit of daring and innovation. What would you say about Schiaparelli today? Or what do you think of what they're doing and how they're honoring her original, like, design philosophy?
- [42:12]
Darian Wright
I think one of the most famous modern iterations of Schiaparelli is when Lady Gaga sang at the inauguration. She had this big, voluminous red skirt. Is that entirely the Schiaparelli of the 30s? No, but she's wearing something that is playing with something in a fun way. It's being fun. It's just not that serious. That is something that the current house does really, really well. Schiaparelli was extremely thematic, and that was totally new. She invented the idea of a collection theme. She invented the idea of a fashion show. She had this massive showroom and theatrical presentations. That was completely new. So much of what we know about the fashion presentation world and the fashion marketing world is because of Schiaparelli. Just looking at, you know, Lady Gaga's outfit from the inauguration, I'm seeing this idea of an evening suit. That's what I'm seeing as a two piece. Whether it's two pieces or not, I'm not sure, but it appears to be two pieces, which is extremely. Elsa Schiaparelli.
- [43:20]
Amber A.C.
Yeah.
- [43:21]
Darian Wright
And she has this brooch. She always loved brooches in some kind of natural theme. And Elsa played a lot with nature. She played a lot with bugs and birds. We talked about the lobster. She played a lot with messaging, you know, the zodiac. I would want to look a little bit more into what that bird is, because I'm sure there's a message that Gaga.
- [43:40]
Amber A.C.
It is a dove.
- [43:42]
Darian Wright
Oh, it's a dove.
- [43:43]
Amber A.C.
Yeah.
- [43:43]
Darian Wright
Oh, wonderful. I mean, to me, my first thought goes to peace. Like, there is something there that is completely intentional. The volume of it. That's what's different. But that's a new house, and this is an extremely formal event. A huge moment. So. Sure makes sense.
- [43:58]
Amber A.C.
What other dresses come to mind in, like, recent years? Especially red carpet.
- [44:04]
Darian Wright
A recent Schiaparelli piece was. Demi Moore was just promoting the substance.
- [44:10]
Amber A.C.
Okay.
- [44:11]
Darian Wright
And she wore this dress that really played with proportion and had this very severe neckline that I thought was also an homage to the suspense and the horror of the movie. I thought that was such a perfect choice for the red carpet to promote that movie. Because there is a question in the gown, and I think that is what we've been talking about looking at her pieces, the lobster dress, And I'm wondering that same thing. As I'm looking at the moment Modern House's red carpet looks. There's a question in there that wants to be answered.
- [44:42]
Amber A.C.
Yeah, that does feel very Schiaparelli. And I also love that the logo that they're using today is also the original logo that is seen on the inside of some of her haute couture dresses from back in the day too. It is a very whimsical, amusing little script. But, yeah, I mean, honestly, going back through her whole story, her life is so dramatic. It's so full of ups and downs. It's pain and turmoil and these, like, really exciting moments. And the life that she lived definitely paved the way for her work, and we see that in her work. And maybe her work was also an escape from her life too, I think.
- [45:30]
Darian Wright
I would say that this journey and learning more about the details of her life show me how valuable pulling on your own life experience can be for inspiration in so many places. She was famous for very intricate and detailed jackets and embroidery. And I just think about what it would have been like growing up in an Italian palace with all this exposure to baroque themes, and then the experience of just knowing artists and allowing their work to influence your own and, like, letting your friends play such a big role in what's inspiring you. She drank it up, and to me, she didn't judge it at all, because it takes guts to make some of the things that she made and not diminish or dismiss her own ideas. Like, these were wild things to put out in the world, and she never judged it. If anything, she judged the rote nature of life. Like, she judged what was boring, and she judged what wasn't extravagant. And she just had no space for that. Every thought, you know?
- [46:40]
Amber A.C.
Yeah.
- [46:41]
Darian Wright
They sometimes call that letting the intrusive thoughts win. And, like, she let him win, and she let him rip.
- [46:47]
Amber A.C.
Like, yeah, I had to call Coco Chanel uninspired. She lives in this world of extremism, and I think it's just, like, a good message for everyone, designer or not. Do the bold thing and be daring and take risks and have fun with it. Life is short and you should just have fun. Well, thank you so much for joining me. This is so fun to chat through her life and all of that. And yeah, cheers to Elsa.
- [47:23]
Darian Wright
Cheers to Elsa. Wish I would have known ya.
- [47:27]
Amber A.C.
That wraps up today's deep dive into the extraordinary life of Elsa Schiaparelli. That was so inspiring. She's a designer who turned fashion into art and lived a life as daring as her designs. I have to give a huge thank you to my guest, Darian Wright for joining me today and sharing her passion for fashion fashion history. You can follow Darian on Instagram at imderan and be sure to check out her new substack for even more fashion insights. I'll link that in the show notes for you all. And if you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to leave a review and share it with your friends and rate it on the app that you're listening on because your support helps keep this podcast going and allows to tell the stories of incredible figures just like Schiaparelli. Until next time, stay curious and keep celebrating creativity. And as always, let's redesign history by celebrating women.