← Women Designers You Should Know
Women Designers You Should Know
040. Tomoko Miho and Jessica Strelioff: Designing Space with Soul
00:56:41
This dual feature episode explores the legacy of Tomoko Miho’s masterful use of space and quiet modernism, alongside Jessica Strelioff’s thoughtful approach to building timeless, soulful brands through her studio, Goodside.
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- [00:03]
Amber A.C.
Hi. Welcome back to Women Designers. You should know the podcast where quiet genius never goes unnoticed. I'm Your host, Amber A.C. i am the creative director and owner of design agency Nice People. And I wanted to let you all know that we actually just passed 53,000 downloads on this podcast, which is wild. And I just want to say thank you. If you've been listening and loving the show, I need a huge favor from you. Pause what you're doing right now and hit that five star rating on your podcast app. It only takes a second, and it helps more people discover these incredible women and their stories. Okay. Today we're diving into the life and legacy of Tomoko Miho. She's a designer who didn't need to shout to leave a lasting impact. Her work is so thoughtful. It's spatial, it's poetic. Honestly, it's kind of like a masterclass in how design can feel like a breath of fresh air. She designed iconic posters and catalogs for Herman Miller and MoMA, and even designed for leading major studios and eventually launching her own. She brought a distinctly human approach to modernism, and her career spanned corporate, cultural, and personal work, all guided by precision and grace. And I'm so excited for my guest today. I'm joined by someone whose work echoes the same quiet intentionality, Jessica Strelioff, co founder or one half of Good side Studio. And we're going to be talking about Tomoko's influence, but also dig into Jessica's journey as a designer from launching her own studio to navigating what it means to design with care, restraint, and soul. So let's get into it. You should know.
- [02:31]
Jessica Strelioff
Women deserves.
- [02:33]
Amber A.C.
You should know. Hi, Jessica. Welcome to the podcast.
- [02:48]
Jessica Strelioff
Hi, Amber. Thanks so much for having me here.
- [02:51]
Amber A.C.
I'm so excited to chat through Tomoko Miho's life and her inspiring designs. But first, of course, I want to talk about you and your career and experiences and all of that. So you have founded Good side Studio. And I mean, of course it reminds me a lot of how Tomoko Miho approached design and restraint and like, all of that kind of stuff. But I want to know more about before Good Side. What has your career looked like? What's your career path and where have you worked kind of a thing.
- [03:30]
Jessica Strelioff
So I started my career right out of school. I worked at a small brand studio called Farm Design in Pasadena, California, where they. Yeah, and it was like, you know, I went to. I studied graphic design and illustration in school, and it was, you know, a place where I got to do everything that I thought I was going to get to do out of school. You know, I did restaurant branding and coffee packaging and editorial layouts and all the really, really awesome stuff there. And it was super, super fun. I was there for a couple of years, learned a ton. It was a small studio that I was like the first full time hire and then we grew to like five, six people. But that was such a great experience early on to be able to see how to build a brand studio and an agency and how to get clients and how to market yourself and how to make up projects if you didn't have any and kind of get scrappy when you needed to. So that was a really awesome deep dive into running a brand studio with sort of a safety net of, of someone else, someone else paying the bills.
- [04:29]
Amber A.C.
While you were there. Was that like something you realized you wanted to do on your own is start your own studio?
- [04:36]
Jessica Strelioff
I think so. You know, I think everyone kind of go when they, maybe this isn't true, but everyone when they're studying design. I think one of the ultimate goals is to become a studio owner or run your own thing. I also thought about, like, maybe I want to be a creative director at some big, big company, you know, like Coca Cola or something like that. So I think those were the, the two paths that I really saw early on. And yeah, so it was just, it was great experience to be able to like kind of dip my toes in that again with that sort of like safety net in place where I didn't have to risk my, you know, everything to build that from scratch.
- [05:15]
Amber A.C.
Yeah, I love that. Like, it sounds like you had a lot of ambition from the get go to do something big and have your sights set on, you know, much bigger, higher horizons than, you know, the average designer, I would say.
- [05:30]
Jessica Strelioff
Totally. And I think that like, came from. Both of my parents are creative, they're both small business owners. So I think I watched them build businesses with their creativity in mind. And you know, I grew up in la, where I was seeing all these different creative career pathways come out.
- [05:48]
Amber A.C.
You know, I didn't realize you grew up in la. Where are you now?
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Jessica Strelioff
Yeah, I'm in Austin now.
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Amber A.C.
Okay.
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Jessica Strelioff
But I, yeah, I grew up in the Valley, so I'm, I'm like an original Valley girl.
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Amber A.C.
I grew up in Orange county, so. Okay. I, I feel like I took on the Valley girl accent or I don't know why they call it the Valley girl accent, even though I'm from Orange County. But that might just be like a SoCal accent for really.
- [06:13]
Jessica Strelioff
Yeah, totally. I, I Don't know where that originates from. I don't know if it's like the Frank Zappa song or something, but. Yeah, so I think. But I grew up a lot with like all of my friends, parents worked in the film industry or adjacently or were art teachers. And I babysat for people that were, you know, executives at NBC and stuff, you know. And so it was like kind of around me to be able to see like, oh, you can be creative and be a business owner or. Yeah. Have a career around it. So I think that helped a lot.
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Amber A.C.
Yeah. Where did you go to school?
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Jessica Strelioff
I went to C. Sutton, Cal State University, Northridge.
- [06:46]
Amber A.C.
Okay. And studied design there.
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Jessica Strelioff
Yeah, so I was, I mean, from an early age my parents were like, yeah, you're creative, take art classes, you know, you like it. And they kind of encouraged that. And so I did that. And then outside of high school, I took like an intensive art school prep class course where, you know, you're prepping to go to Otis or RISD or, you know, Art center or, you know, one of the, you know, private art schools. And so I went through that whole program and at the end of it I was like, do I want, do I want debt? Do I want student loan debt? Basically, Do I keep going? Yeah. And so I sat down with my art, my art teacher there and he was like, look, I went, I, I got a law degree and I went to RISD and I'm still paying off my RISD debt. And like, if you wanna, if you want to like get a really great creat but, you know, not be in debt, look at CSUN because they have a really great program that has sort of like integrations with marketing and other business schools within the university. And so it was like a nice way to kind of be like, oh, okay, like I can kind of get creative and study, you know, art, fine art, graphic design, illustration, but then also apply that in more of like a business mindset. So I went there and it was, it was an awesome experience. They have like an on site design studio where you're working with like real world clients. And it was kind of like my early internship there and so that was a really great experience. Got me my first job at Pharm. So yeah, so it was like all, all leading up to that. And so I was at Farm for about two years and then, you know, I was like, this was, I'm dating myself now. This is like 2013. And it was like we were starting to figure out what web design meant and what that meant for branding. And like, what is this digital world that we can like, really design in? And so I was the only one really at Farm that was like, into web design and designing in the digital space and, like, interactive, interesting websites that, you know, like flash and all that stuff. And so I was interested in that. And a friend of mine was like, working at Yahoo, she was up in San Francisco, and she was like, hey, do you want to, like, totally change your career and work at a big tech company and move to the Silicon Valley? And I was like, I don't know. Sure. I mean, I was such in the mindset of, like, I just want to try out everything. And like, this was sort of the route of, like, oh, I want to work at, like, a big corporate company and maybe I want to be an executive there one day. Kind of like, not necessarily Yahoo, but like, in house. And so, yeah, decided to do that. I mean, I think really early on in my career, I was just kind of, like, experimenting a lot. Did that. Did that for a year was not for me. It was like a huge culture shock, honestly. I was like, at this boutique branding studio doing, like, you know, restaurant branding. And then I went to Yahoo, designing, like, onboarding flows and like, icons.
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Amber A.C.
How long were you at Yahoo for?
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Jessica Strelioff
I was there for a year. Exactly. And I was like, cool. I'm. I don't think this is right for me. But I was still in San Francisco. I was loving San Francisco. I met my now husband there and we were dating at the time and stuff. I was like, okay, I still want to, like, stay in San Francisco for a while. And then I went to another tech company called Asana, but I went there specifically because they were doing a rebrand in house. And I was, like, interested in that challenge. Like, you know, at Yahoo, we weren't doing rebrands in house. It was more like maintenance mode or in more like tech technical flows and things like that. And then at Asana, they were like, hey, we need a core team to lead the rebrand internally. Like, do you want to be a part of that? And that was. So I decided to say take on that role. And that was such an exciting opportunity because I really got to see, like, the impact that a rebrand has on a. On a larger company internally, what that process is. Like. We worked with an external agency. That was my first real understanding of, like, robust strategy and brand positioning before getting into visual identity and then, like, brand rollout. And so that was just like, deep dive on, like, corporate branding. And that was awesome. I was like. And then after that process sort of completed. I was like, oh, I got to keep doing that. Like, that's what I want to do, but you can't do that in house. And so that's when I went back to the agency side, and I was like, okay, cool. This is where I kind of belong. Joined a bigger agency in San Francisco called Upper Quad, where we did, like, a ton of branding and digital design for, like, Google and Instagram and Patagonia and, like, all those. All those companies. And that's actually where I met Danielle, who's the good side co founder.
- [11:07]
Amber A.C.
Oh, yeah.
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Jessica Strelioff
And she's like a. She's a brand strategist, copywriter. And when we met, it was just like, I don't know, we just clicked. Like, the way that we work together really clicked. I was like, I respect brand strategy and positioning and copywriting so much. This is how you build full of life brands. It's really marrying the two together. Like, the visual world and the verbal world. Like, this is how we do it. And it just felt so right. So we worked together there for. For three years on a bunch of. Bunch of really fun projects. But by the end of my time there, I was a creative director. I was overseeing a team. I was in meetings all day. I was starting to burn out, and I was freelancing on the side. And actually, I messaged you around this time. This is, like, 2018.
- [11:49]
Amber A.C.
Okay.
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Jessica Strelioff
I messaged you on Instagram and I was like, hey, Amber, I really admire you. Like, you know, I'm thinking about freelancing full time. Tell me what to do. You know, and you had such. You were so thoughtful. You had such a thoughtful, thorough response, and you gave me so much good advice.
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Amber A.C.
Oh, good. Yeah, I, like, I don't remember that I should open my Instagram DMS and see what you. What you wrote.
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Jessica Strelioff
But yes. No, it was so sweet. I mean, I wasn't even expecting you to respond, and you did, and you were, like, so, so awesome about it. So thank you again.
- [12:22]
Amber A.C.
Good. I'm glad I could help. I mean, you're doing amazing things now. And when I think about your start, too, it feels like you made lemonade out of lemons. Like, you were given, like, CSUN is, you know, like, I would say, a very humble start to a design career and, like, a really solid one, too. And so immediately, you probably, like, I kind of see it as like, a big fish in a small pond and, like, had much bigger sites to go somewhere else. And, like, you're such a good designer, too. And so seeing and Hearing about all of these layers of experience that probably really fed into how you approach design now and all of that experience. And I think that's so great to go from place to place and then to really see and observe all of these other processes and business approaches and things like that. And then now co owning your own design studio and having a lot of branding and brand strategy processes mixed together. It's just very admirable, I would say, like the work that you're doing.
- [13:33]
Jessica Strelioff
Thank you. Yeah. And I think like, I remember being in the situation, you know, at Yahoo, for example, I was like, oh my gosh, why did I join this as a mistake? Like, what am I doing here? But now looking back, I'm like, if I didn't have that opportunity, like, I wouldn't understand, first of all, I wouldn't have met great people. Like, I've met so many friends there. I. And clients, you know, like, and now clients, I should say. But it was also like, it taught me a lot of the more like internal politics and like, sort of like managing clients and understanding where they're coming from. From like, you know, if I get feedback out of nowhere, I'm like, oh, I understand now. This is like not matching up your like Q4 goals or like, you know, you're whatever, you know, I'm understanding the corporate speak a little bit and the political management side of things when it comes to, you know, internal politics and all that stuff.
- [14:20]
Amber A.C.
Yeah. So then tell me more about that transition from the last place you worked to building up good side and all of that. And you know, this moment where you're like, I'm burnt out, I want to go out on my own. Like, tell me more about that transition.
- [14:35]
Jessica Strelioff
Yeah, so I was burnout because I was in meetings all the time. I wasn't doing the hands on creative work as much. I wasn't ready to put down my paintbrush, but was just kind of feeling like creatively drained. I started taking on freelance projects on the side, sort of moonlighting it, which, you know, increased my burnout even more probably to some extent. But I felt like I had enough networks and connections and clients where I was like, okay, I think I can do this for like three months. Like I'm just gonna gift myself a three month trial period. I have a savings set up. You know, I have like 6 month savings. Worst case scenario, if I don't get any work after three months, like I'll just go and try and find a new job. And so I had a project lined up with a friend of mine who had been freelancing already for a while that was like a brand strategist and started that project and then it was just like one lend to another. And I luckily, knock on wood, stayed busy ever since then.
- [15:32]
Amber A.C.
Good.
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Jessica Strelioff
Yeah. And my first year of freelance was really like, I'm just exploring everything, trying to everything sort of how I approached my early career where it was like saying yes to everything. So I was trying small projects, I was trying different pricing models, I was trying different collaborators, different industries of clients, different size of companies I was working with. I was exploring working with other agencies as a contractor and you know, working directly with clients more as a studio model and really figuring out what type of work I was liking, what type of structure and working model I was liking. And so I really started to hone that in. After, after the first year I was like, okay, cool. I love earlier stage companies. I love working directly with founders, I love the branding piece. I love brand strategy and design together and really like making sure I can create a holistic brand for them and then helping them roll that out. And Danielle was still at the agency that we met at, and I was like slowly hiring her on, like more and more, like, hey, like, can I just hire you to do this, you know, little, little project on the side? Or you know, hey, like, you know, starting to just kind of pull her in more and more. And eventually I convinced her to freelance full time. This was back in like 2019, 2020. And then we started freelancing almost exclusively together after that, where every project that we would take on, you know, she would be sort of the brand strategy, brand positioning copywriter lead, and I would be the visual, visual design creative director lead. And we did that for a couple years and then we were like, you know what, like this is it, you know, this is what we're gonna do. We're gonna, we're gonna start a studio. Yeah, exactly. Which is always such a terrifying thing. I mean, it really is like a marriage. I tell people this, like, if you're like co founding a studio together, like you're having these in depth conversations about like, hey, what are your, like not just career goals, but like, what are your life goals? Like, how do you, how do you want to structure your life? What are your finances? Like, what are your, you know, constraints?
- [17:23]
Amber A.C.
Yeah, like I was talking to Michelle and Ellen from Nature. They're even just like working on their computers, like different states or whatever, and they just have like zoom on or something where they're literally kind of just like co working or working in the same space. And they do stuff like that where they're in each other's files and they just like, casually talk the whole time to each other. And, like, it is such a intimate business relationship. You really do need to know, like, the ins and outs of all of that with each other.
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Jessica Strelioff
Totally. Yeah. I mean, Danielle's one of the first people I say good morning to outside of my husband and my dog. Yeah. But, you know, like, I mean, you know, we're basically chatting all day, but I think even, like, where is she located? She's in San Francisco still. So we met in San Francisco, and then I moved to Austin in 2020. And so we've been remote ever since then, which has worked well for us, I would say. We've really built good side to be, like, a lifestyle business also and really support, like, the work life balance. That was something that was really important to me to, like, I'm a workaholic by nature, but I also have an autoimmune disease. And so figuring out the balance of, like, you know, I can't go over stress all the time. And she has a new board. And so, like, you know, we wanted to really make sure that we were building good side to support our lifestyles and the. And the goals there. But even like, last year, you know, she had her. Had her son Will, who's adorable, and she wanted to take time off. And so we had to really sit down as business partners, be like, okay, cool. How do we do this? How do we make this work? Like, what does this look like for you? Ideally? What does this look like for me? And we talked about that, you know, for years, even leading up to that, because we knew that was a goal of hers personally, is like, okay, how do we structure this to make sure that supports your family goals? So it is like a marriage in some ways.
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Amber A.C.
Yeah. That is so impressive. And that, yeah, it does take a lot of work and a lot of learning as you go. And I don't know, like, is there a book on partnerships or did you have you read on any of that?
- [19:35]
Jessica Strelioff
There should be. I know there's like, studio book, like Run. Studio run. Yeah, that comes to mind. Yeah, but. And I think they're, like, slightly. They, like, cater to slightly, like, larger, you know, agency models. But yeah, there should be like, a one that's almost exclusively for, like, co founders or partners. That's a good idea.
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Amber A.C.
Maybe that's your book.
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Jessica Strelioff
Yeah.
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Amber A.C.
With writer Danielle.
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Jessica Strelioff
Totally. Yeah, we've been talking about that.
- [20:05]
Amber A.C.
I want to also know more about what your career has looked like as a designer who's a woman too. Like, what challenges have you faced? Were there some environments that felt like you were excluded? Excluded. Like, tell me more about that experience.
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Jessica Strelioff
I mean, I feel pretty lucky that I've had a couple of incredible female creative leaders in larger corporation settings. So in those settings I never felt challenges because there was a role model for me to be able to like look up to. And I felt like they were really, you know, you know, guarding the path leading the way. But I would say like, where it's sort of come up that's been interesting is more like male dominant agencies. Even like in interviewing this was like years and years ago now, but before I decided to freelance full time, I was like, should I go to another big agency? So I interviewed at a couple of big agencies that were like pretty male dominant. And I remember one call in particular where the person was like, oh, we're super excited about you because you're like a woman that's senior, that's really, really good. And that's so hard to find. And I'm like. And like we just want to hire you for that reason basically. And I was like, I don't know. That feels like you're just kind of like hitting your quota. I don't know if that's like you're.
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Amber A.C.
Like the token, right?
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Jessica Strelioff
Yeah, yeah, totally. And so in, in those ways I felt it a little bit more. But I would say like in general, people that I like, clients that were, are drawn to good side. I think we attract like a certain type of like client that, you know, we're two women, we're friendly, we're both from California, we're both pretty bubbly. Like we're both very positive people. And I would say we've gotten pretty good at like weeding out people that don't resonate with that, which are typically people that like maybe would not be into working with two women. Like we don't really want to work with them either, probably. Yeah.
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Amber A.C.
It reminds me of the story of Louise Feely and she started Louise Feely limited in, I think it was like the 80s or something like that. And named it after, you know, a herself using her first name in there. This is obviously a woman owned studio. And her strategy behind doing that was to basically say, if you don't want to work with a woman, like, here's the door, like here's your sign that I'm a woman and you'd be working with a woman and I only want to work with People that are okay with that. And it's interesting that even today, like, you know, thinking like 40 years later, we're still kind of in that place of these women starting studios, having to say it's a woman owned studio and putting their faces on the website and all of that to make sure we're weeding out our own clients to say like, hey, just so you know, we're a woman owned studio or primarily women kind of a thing and hope you're okay with that or you know, here's the obvious sign that who you'd be working with.
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Jessica Strelioff
Yeah, it's like nice people. The name of your name of nice people you're weeding out. That's not going to attract, hopefully doesn't attract any, any mean guys though.
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Amber A.C.
That's. You would be surprised at how many people still fall through the cracks. I still find myself having conversations with clients to say like, this isn't how we work. And I still get clients that are like threatening lawyers or doing stuff like that where it's like, hey, like let's find a way to work together and not just like immediately go to such a not nice place kind of a thing just because it's unnecessary. It's like, this work should be fun, this should be collaborative and we should be passionate about the work together. Why does it have to be stressful and like gun at the head moments Kind of a thing of like get this work done or else, you know.
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Jessica Strelioff
So it should be the most fun part of their day. Like I have so many clients that are like, like, oh, we've been looking forward to this meeting all week. Like that's how it should feel. I mean this should be fun. Like we get to a really fun job.
- [24:08]
Amber A.C.
Yeah. Like surprisingly enough, one way to weed people out too is whoever self funding their projects are probably going to be the most high strung, like stressful projects because it's their savings account that's being drained into this project and there's so much more on the line when that happens. And so those are usually like first obvious people to be like, do I want to do this with you? You're going to bring a lot of stress to the project because it's your money going into this and I don't want to do that. Yeah, I know.
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Jessica Strelioff
I admire people so much that do wedding invitations. This is like a slight tangent but like so I've done a couple just for friends, but and for Danielle too. But you know, it's like the most important day for so many people's lives and they're gonna like nitpick every single detail and I'm like, this must be like so high stress or even wedding photographers. I'm like, if you don't get that kiss shot, like yeah, you messed up.
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Amber A.C.
Yeah, that is high stakes too. Agree. That's like not fun to work with.
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Jessica Strelioff
Yeah, totally.
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Amber A.C.
But as you were talking about these big male dominant agencies, it also makes me think about that imbalance in the industry in general and the fact that I don't know if you've noticed this, but it feels like a lot of these smaller studios that like you own and I own and you know, a lot of our peers, they're all of these smaller women agencies. But where are the big women owned agencies? Like we can list off like Row and Co. And Walsh and stuff like that but there's so few and far between of these like huge teams, like multi million dollar revenue agencies kind of a thing. And it's interesting what that imbalance looks like and it's like when is that going to change?
- [26:02]
Jessica Strelioff
Yeah. And I think it's unfortunate that that isn't there because I think until we have models and we can see like oh, we can do this, this exists, like it's going to be so hard for people to like make that jump. I mean I think it's positive that we do have a lot more female founded studios, even if they're small these days than we used to. Like maybe that's the first step. Like maybe, maybe a couple of us will merge together one day. It'll be in a mega agency.
- [26:27]
Amber A.C.
Let's, let's create a pentagram where yeah everyone, we're all like from a profit pool or however they work. But yeah, it's just like. And I don't know if you feel this way too but there's a lot of big agencies that are co owned by a man and a woman. But to me, I don't feel like that's the same ballpark that I'm in because they still have a man as a co owner that is rubbing shoulders with male clients and winning these male clients over that, you know, like is kind of a disadvantage for women owned studios.
- [27:04]
Jessica Strelioff
Totally. I was, this is jumping ahead to, to Moko Miho a little bit but I was even reading about how like later in life her and her husband worked together a little bit and I was wondering at what capacity because I read one line that described him as like the charismatic, like you know.
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Amber A.C.
Yeah.
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Jessica Strelioff
Like sort of extroverted person. Yeah. And then she's the very as I'M sure we'll get into, but like the very sort of like quiet confidence, like, you know, introverted, keep reserved. And I'm like, oh, that's a common dynamic, unfortunately.
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Amber A.C.
It is, yeah. And a common dynamic among a lot of the women that I've talked about on this podcast. Like Ray Eames was this introverted woman designer and a lot of people just saw that as like she was the assistant to Charles and everything. And he was this charismatic, Let me tell you about our chairs kind of a person. And they assumed he was designing every angle, every bit of that chair when she was like 50% or sometimes more in the weeds and like nuts and bolts of like making this chair come to life.
- [28:14]
Jessica Strelioff
Yeah, yeah, let's change that. We gotta change that, right?
- [28:19]
Amber A.C.
Well, yeah, so speaking of Tomoko, let's dive into her story. She was born in LA in 1931. So you know, a very common area that we're talking about right now, another Valley girl. Yeah, she was actually born to Japanese immigrant parents who operated a flower business. In fact, During World War II, this was when a lot of Japanese Americans were being shipped to camps. Is that right? During World War II. That's the right war.
- [28:53]
Jessica Strelioff
Concentration camp, yeah.
- [28:55]
Amber A.C.
Yeah. And her family were forcibly relocated to Arizona where they spent three years. And so like that is such a layered part of her story and her history when she was only like 10 or she's like very young at this point having to leave her home in la. And then after their release, then they moved to Minneapolis and were seeking new opportunities and a fresh start. So that's where she ended up getting some of her art education. She went to Minneapolis School of Art and then found her way back to LA and went to Art center, which we talked a little bit about. She was awarded a full scholarship. And the thing I like about Art center is it's such a diverse community there too. And a small, tight knit community. I've like met some of the professors there, they're not too far from me and they take so much pride in being part of Tomoko Miho's story too. And I think that's really fun to see and hear from them is, oh yeah, Tomoko went here and so she got her degree in 1958. And during her time there, that's when she met her charismatic husband, photographer and designer James Miho. And then in 1960, Tomoko and her husband James embarked on a six month journey across Europe. They immersed themselves in the rich design culture around there and they were even like chatting with and talking to notable figures of that era too, like the art director of Olivetti in Milan, Giovanni Pintori. And they went to Switzerland and they were meeting with poster designers in Basel and they were in Germany and getting all of the rich design experience of Germany. And they went to Finland and, you know, we're connecting with textile designers and industrial designers in Finland, including Maramekko, which is such an iconic textile design house that's still around today. And then of course, they also learned more about Swiss international typographic style. And it's obvious that that influenced her design philosophy and that she really, like, soaked all of that up during this kind of six month, like, sabbatical kind of feel.
- [31:31]
Jessica Strelioff
This sounds like such a designer's dream trip too. I also read that they did it in a silver Porsche. I don't know if that's true, but like, fancy. I read one line where they were like driving up to villages and they're like, silver Porsche and Europe. And people were like, ooh, like these shiny new modern designers. And I'm like, oh, my, this is just the dream.
- [31:50]
Amber A.C.
My goodness, I would love that. In 1960 of all time, right? Like, that sounds like it could be a movie. Like she was a cool girl there. Six month trip to Europe.
- [32:03]
Jessica Strelioff
Yeah, totally.
- [32:04]
Amber A.C.
Let's make that happen right now. Or maybe you and Danielle, you're like, this is studio research that we have.
- [32:12]
Jessica Strelioff
To do off site. A six month off site.
- [32:14]
Amber A.C.
Yeah, yeah, we have to learn. We have to learn more design. And like, it's interesting because of course, nowadays we have the Internet and we have all of these resources to tap into and to get inspiration from. But could you imagine, like, 1960, you've either got like the library or, you know, a trip to Europe to really help inspire you. And so like, yeah, take the trip to Europe and learn all the things that you need to learn that maybe school doesn't necessarily cover everything.
- [32:49]
Jessica Strelioff
Yeah. She even had a quote that I really liked that I wrote down that was like, this trip opened my eyes to design work that was both freer and more structured than what we learned at Art Center.
- [32:58]
Amber A.C.
Oh, I thought that was nice.
- [32:59]
Jessica Strelioff
Yeah, I thought that was an interesting call out.
- [33:01]
Amber A.C.
Yeah, yeah. And so they returned to the US And Tomoko joined this prestigious New York design firm as a graphic designer called George Nelson Associates. She also had a mentor. She worked under Irving Harper, the creative director, known for his multidisciplinary design approach. And so that was kind of a another, you know, layer to her story too, and how she was influenced and the trajectory of her career. And then she actually succeeded Harper as head of the graphic design department, overseeing significant projects at this design firm. And she also played a pivotal role in developing catalogs for furniture company Herman Miller as part of this design agency. Right.
- [33:53]
Jessica Strelioff
Iconic. Iconic. Her work for the catalogs is incredible, too. I mean, yes, it's. I think she. Everyone says she changed the way that furniture catalogs are designed. And I'm, like, looking through it, I'm just like, yeah, they're incredible. And imagine in this being the first time that you're seeing a furniture catalog that looks like these, where it's just like, the furniture is more sculpturally laid out. They're, like, stacked. They're on this, like, white background with silhouettes of the chairs. And I'm like, yeah, that's what you think of when you think of Herman Miller. And she.
- [34:24]
Amber A.C.
Yeah. In fact, it also makes me think of E commerce today. Like, if this is way back when, in the 60s, and she's thinking through how to display all this information and how to display all of these products, and that's how a lot of catalogs have been designed since then. It's also kind of like E commerce. And a lot of that is taken from this idea of catalog design. For a minute there, I thought that Tomoko Miho worked in house for Herman Miller because that is such an iconic part of her portfolio and work that we know of today. But it was really the fact that they were one of the major clients for this George Nelson Associates firm that was in New York. And so I thought she went from Art center to Herman Miller's in la. Like, you know, she was mingling maybe with the Eames or, like, I don't even know, but. But really, she's all the way in New York at this time, working for Herman Miller as basically one of their primary creative partners and, like, leading that design, too.
- [35:38]
Jessica Strelioff
Yeah. And that relationship carries on throughout her whole life. Like, she worked with Herman Miller on, like, with them as a client for ever and ever and ever, like, even later on in her own studio. Spoiler alert.
- [35:52]
Amber A.C.
But, yeah, you know what's interesting is there must have been someone at Herman Miller that valued her as a designer and, like, really held on to her.
- [36:04]
Jessica Strelioff
Yeah, totally. Well, she.
- [36:06]
Amber A.C.
I wish I knew who that was.
- [36:08]
Jessica Strelioff
Yeah, well, she seems so admired in the design world during that time. I mean, I was reading through all these quotes about her from other, like, prolific designers of that time, and, like, there was such clear admiration for her. So I. I get the sense that just everyone in the industry, like, loved her, respected her, was in awe of her and her skill. And so I'm sure, yeah, someone at Herman Miller was like, yep, that's who I want to work with.
- [36:33]
Amber A.C.
Yeah. So DJ Dupree is the founder of Herman Miller and later his son Hugh Dupree were both known for their deep respect for design and designers. They're the ones who cultivated relationships with the Eames and with George Nelson, the owner of this studio, and Alexander Gerard, who had a architecture firm. And so like the founder and his son, they were very aware of and were the ones approving Tomoko's work. So it might have actually been like the owners themselves that really valued Tomoko and I. That's so cool. I think that's so special to be these like male owners who are seeking out and wanting Tomoko's work.
- [37:25]
Jessica Strelioff
And that makes sense with the lifelong connection then.
- [37:27]
Amber A.C.
Yeah, that's true. They were like, not ready to say goodbye to her. And that's such a big moment for way back then. Okay. So talking through some of her, like the middle of her career and the things that she achieved and all of that. The center for Advanced Research in Design. She was a collaborator with John Massey in Chicago and worked alongside him. And one of the notable projects was designing the acclaimed great Architecture in Chicago poster from 1967. And so it utilized this like, silver coated paper to capture the reflective nature of the city's architecture. And this specific poster is now part of MoMA's collection too.
- [38:15]
Jessica Strelioff
Yeah, I feel like this is her iconic piece. Like, if someone only knows one piece of hers, it's this poster.
- [38:23]
Amber A.C.
Yeah. Tell me more about what you like about this piece.
- [38:27]
Jessica Strelioff
Well, I mean, I think one, the materials are really interesting, but I was also reading up on it more. I haven't seen it in person, unfortunately.
- [38:34]
Amber A.C.
Me neither.
- [38:35]
Jessica Strelioff
But I also was reading that it's not actually even a photograph of a building. It's like photographs of reflections. And she's just using sort of the reflection imagery and negative space and how it's all laid together to create this sort of like sense of a building, which I think is just so smart.
- [38:56]
Amber A.C.
Does that mean it's printed in three dimensional squares? Is that the grid?
- [39:03]
Jessica Strelioff
I think that's screen printed on just like the metallic paper. I don't know if those are like individual squares or what it is, but it's like a dot, like a dot, black dot, pattern, screen printed on.
- [39:16]
Amber A.C.
Oh, okay.
- [39:17]
Jessica Strelioff
But I, at first looking at it, I was like, oh, this is a photograph of a building that's Cool. But looking at it more in depth, I was like, oh, no, it's actually like the reflections in the windows of a building or of some. In something else.
- [39:28]
Amber A.C.
Yeah, I'm like, trying to look at other pictures of it to see how it morphs and changes because it feels like you'd have to experience it in 3D or like someone really should have a video of it to understand or, like, help us wrap our head around what exactly is happening here.
- [39:46]
Jessica Strelioff
There's. I mean, there's a couple of other posters in that series, and one of them is of Wall street in New York. And it, at first glance, it's like, like three high rise sort of buildings. And then you look closer and it's actually like Plexiglas cubes. And then the windows are like writing of like stock ticker numbers. So she has this like, interesting optical illusion a little bit play and like making things look like buildings that aren't actually buildings.
- [40:15]
Amber A.C.
Right. Okay. I'm looking at that one now too. And yeah, it's like a building made out of numbers or buildings made out of numbers. It makes me think of her industrial design background too. And I mean, the fact that she's working with architecture and with chairs and furniture and all of that makes so much sense that she understands how to communicate and like, visually communicate those ideas and concepts and bringing that into her work and it's all like bridging together.
- [40:45]
Jessica Strelioff
Yeah. Her work is sculptural in a lot of ways. Like, not just the Herman Miller stuff, although of course that is, but like, you know, she's playing a lot with depth and planes and perspective and all of these things that are very three dimensional.
- [40:59]
Amber A.C.
Okay. I found an ebay link to her iconic architecture in Chicago poster. You want to guess how much is oh, God. Being sold for? It's not even auction. You can just buy it now for this price.
- [41:15]
Jessica Strelioff
$3,000, the original. It's like, oh, my gosh, $10,000 almost.
- [41:21]
Amber A.C.
It's 8,500.
- [41:23]
Jessica Strelioff
Oh, my gosh.
- [41:24]
Amber A.C.
Or best offer, I guess you can make an offer if you really want to.
- [41:27]
Jessica Strelioff
How cool is that?
- [41:29]
Amber A.C.
Should I link that in the show notes if anyone wants to buy this vintage? Like, I don't know how many. How big the run was for this poster, but yeah, that must be like the first series.
- [41:40]
Jessica Strelioff
Yeah.
- [41:41]
Amber A.C.
Yeah.
- [41:41]
Jessica Strelioff
That's awesome. Wow.
- [41:42]
Amber A.C.
Maybe one of 500 or one of 200. I'm not really sure. Okay, so that was an iconic poster, 1967. And the wall street one, I think is also from the 60s. She also created the OmniPlan logo in 1967. It was this like dynamic perspective shifting logo for a Dallas based architectural firm. And it showed her ability to merge these ideas again of form and meaning and drawing these like deeper meanings from shapes and things like that. But yeah, that is an iconic kind of a logo too. Very mid century I would say like, like thinking of severance and how we're in such a like big severance moment right now. It is so severance because it's got these like four quadrants or rooms. Like do you think severance pulled from this in any way? I don't know.
- [42:42]
Jessica Strelioff
I mean they, I mean it is very much. It looks like the overhead shot of the desk or the room.
- [42:47]
Amber A.C.
And so like there's a plus in the middle, kind of a blocky plus and then these like four structures coming out where you know, like it's, it's doing a lot of illusions where it could be inverted or like experted what is the opposite of inverted. But yeah, like it, it could be going in, it could be popping out. It's like such a visual illusion which is really cool.
- [43:11]
Jessica Strelioff
I also loved her exploration of that logo and with paper, like she had created it with paper, sort of like almost.
- [43:18]
Amber A.C.
Yeah, I'm seeing that now.
- [43:19]
Jessica Strelioff
It almost looks like origami. And then. Yeah, I just feel like it took on like multiple different ways of interpreting it physically and in different colors and she like really brought in the application of the logo.
- [43:29]
Amber A.C.
Yeah, I was just going to say there's such an advantage to having an industrial background with graphic design because you really, it can set you apart in these ways of thinking of things in a three dimensional form. There's also going back to Herman Miller. There's also a really great striped interpretation of I think the Herman Miller logo maybe. And that is really cool too. Like a series of posters and it's like offset stripes and again kind of creating a really fun illusion. So then going beyond her work from the 60s in the 70s, this is when she and her husband co founded their firm Miho Associates. And so they worked on design projects of all kind, had all sorts of clients, their clients included and this is pretty incredible and maybe also help that she had again like a man on her side. But they worked with MoMA and Smithsonian Institution, National Air and Space Museum, the William de Kooning Foundation, Evita and you know, they established their studio in New York city in the 70s and 80s or no, the 70s was, was technically Miho Associates and then the 80s was Tomoko Miho & Co. It's not very clear because again, I mean, there is no autobiography of Tomoko Miho. There is not a deeper dive of her story. And her Wikipedia is pretty shamefully short considering what she's done. But there's no real public record confirming Tomoko and James separated or divorced. But there are some clues that suggest this later in life. So they started as their creative duo, meeting at Art center, going to Europe. We know they did Miho Associates together. But then it was when in the 80s that their careers diverged that you start to kind of figure out maybe that's what happened here. Because James Miho kept working more and more in advertising and corporate communications and Tomoko established her own independent practice, Tomoko Miho and Co. Which kind of sounds like James was not involved in her work anymore and that they might have gone separate ways business wise. But maybe it was personal too. But most articles are about Tomoko's solo career from the 80s onward with no mention of James. So that's kind of how you start to piece that together. And, and also it's kind of nice to separate her from her husband because you get a lot of that kind of story or narrative with a lot of these women from the past is they're so closely tied to their husband, you don't know where one starts and the other ends kind of a thing. And so totally.
- [46:31]
Jessica Strelioff
Yeah, I like that she had Tomoko Miho co like, I like that that was hers alone.
- [46:36]
Amber A.C.
Yes. Like Louise Feely Limited.
- [46:39]
Jessica Strelioff
And that was so rare in the 80s. I mean it's almost unheard of.
- [46:44]
Amber A.C.
Yeah. So she sets up her solo studio in the 80s and I think that this is where her work really starts to be like very definitive of her style and her work. And she might have wanted more creative control at this time. She really focused on institutional and cultural clients like the Smithsonian and MoMA. And yeah, I mean, I think it was really great that she like in the 80s, a woman owning her own studio and having a very clear, distinct design voice.
- [47:20]
Jessica Strelioff
I think something that really stood out to me is that she was like praised so highly by so many peers of her time, but then yet there's no interviews with her, there's no biography of her. Like there's one book that I found that you can't buy anywhere, like doesn't exist anymore. It's like hall of Fame's Tomoko Miho book.
- [47:36]
Amber A.C.
But it's like, right, those are all sold out. They must have had a short run of all of those because. And I want to get them on the podcast, too, because they've done incredible work on women designers. But, yeah, it feels like all of their, like, smaller runs might have been kind of limited edition. There's, like, one video of her, an old interview video of her on YouTube. So I'll post that in the show notes just so people can see this, because, yeah, like, she died in 2012, so there's obviously got to be more video of her. And. And she is very introverted, and, you know, it. Like, I think that that's. That's her design work is really her way of communicating.
- [48:18]
Jessica Strelioff
Yeah.
- [48:19]
Amber A.C.
But she did get an AIJ medal in 1993. She was honored for everything that she's contributed to the design industry, and she was praised for her minimalism and modernist style and everything. So I'm so glad she got that in her lifetime too. And I wonder, like, 93. I don't think a lot of women had received an AIGA medal at that time.
- [48:48]
Jessica Strelioff
Yeah. Good for her and well deserved.
- [48:51]
Amber A.C.
Yes. Okay, so she was among one of the first women to receive the AIGA medal before her was 1959 Mame Massey. And then after a gap of several decades, then Tomoko Miho.
- [49:09]
Jessica Strelioff
That is a huge gap. Almost 40 years. Yeah. Oh, wait. Yeah.
- [49:14]
Amber A.C.
Oh, yeah. And then right after Tomoko was Muriel Cooper in 94 and CB Pinellas in 93 for her, like, Vogue work and everything.
- [49:24]
Jessica Strelioff
Okay. Seems like a IGA stepped up a little bit in the 90s.
- [49:28]
Amber A.C.
Yeah. They figured it out from 59. I guess that means she was number two.
- [49:34]
Jessica Strelioff
Wow.
- [49:35]
Amber A.C.
If I'm understanding that correctly, she's the second woman to ever receive an AIGA medal.
- [49:41]
Jessica Strelioff
Wow.
- [49:42]
Amber A.C.
Which would be really special. Really cool. She also had a solo MoMA exhibit, too, which I think is really cool.
- [49:51]
Jessica Strelioff
Oh, very cool.
- [49:53]
Amber A.C.
This was in 1974. She was featured as the only woman and person of color in the four Graphic Designers exhibit. Okay. So not solo. She. She was among four other people, and it highlighted her, like, unique take on design and everything too. And then. Yeah, I mean, to this day, her work continues to inspire designers, and especially embodying this blend of European modernism with even Japanese minimalism and American pragmatism. So. So it's really cool that she's found her niche or her special place of, like, you know, blending all of these things and her take on industrial design infused in all of that as well.
- [50:41]
Jessica Strelioff
Totally. Yeah. Something that she alluded to that I was reading about was, like, the Japanese garden technique Shocke, which is, like, playing around with, like, the background elements. So, like, the Scenery in the background and like making that integrate with the foreground of the garden. And I really see that in her work too. She's playing a lot with like depth and dimension and space and sort of optical illusions almost.
- [51:02]
Amber A.C.
Yeah. So it's.
- [51:03]
Jessica Strelioff
Yeah. Her work is just so sophisticated and bold and has that quiet confidence that I think she had as a person, which is just so cool to see.
- [51:13]
Amber A.C.
Yeah. In fact, what I want, I want to know as we close this out, what inspires you the most about her?
- [51:19]
Jessica Strelioff
Her work, obviously. Her work is incredible. And she has that like, I read a quote that like, you know, she designs things in a way that seemed like the only way to be able to design them and that's like the only way they should ever be designed. And that is so true. Like you look at something and you're like, oh, that just feels so right and so elegant and such a perfect choice for what she's designing or what story she's trying to tell. And it has that like bold sophistication. But I also think what I'm drawn to about her is her as a person. Like her personality, her demeanor seems really intriguing to me. Like, I just wish we could sit down and talk with her because there's so much that I think she probably had inside that there's not interviews about. And then she was just more of a reserved person. So she didn't talk about it. But there's like this one photo of her, it's black and white and she's like sitting over a desk. This was like early on, I think in her career. And like she just has this air to her of like she owns the room, she knows what she's doing, she has this confidence. She's like really in it. And I'm just like, I want to know you, I want to hang out and pick your brain.
- [52:22]
Amber A.C.
Yeah. And it makes me think about her studio because it says and company. So I'm assuming she had other people, other designers under her and that she was like a design leader in a sense. But she might have also been just like a one woman studio and I don't know, like maybe Ann Co was just to. So she could bring in like freelancers and collaborators on like, you know, one off projects or things like that. So yeah, like it is interesting. Like I imagine her restraint in design and all of that really could have took off in people that worked for her and things like that too. And it's really hard to understand or to know her influence in that sense because there's not a Lot of information out there about her. But yeah, I love the thoughtfulness in her work too. And I think that that's such a huge difference between her and other designers is there's a very, like, quiet thoughtfulness about the work. It's not loud, but it's in the details and it's in the nuances and in the white space and just like, very visually intriguing. And I think it's like, so fun to just be inspired by her work. And it also makes me wonder, is there more out there we haven't seen? If she's had this like, multi decade, I don't know, at least 30. If sounds like maybe 40 year career or more, then where's the rest of her work? It's gotta be out there. And it's just the same, like eight or 10 pieces that keep getting regurgitated online.
- [54:09]
Jessica Strelioff
I know I went down like an Internet rabbit hole, like, trying to find more photos. And a couple came from the hall of Fame's book. Like, people had taken, like a photo of it. So I think there's a lot more in there, which I'm like, oh, I wish I could get my hands on a copy of that.
- [54:22]
Amber A.C.
But yeah, and sometimes people's archives like this live at one place or one institution and they're not photographing it there or it's like, like behind a paywall or it's things like that where, okay, like, how do we get to see more of her work and are we documenting it properly?
- [54:41]
Jessica Strelioff
Yeah, her work's incredible. I mean, I also just think, like, every single element in her work has a purpose and it's like the relationship between them. Like, she's playing with scale. It's just like, so smart and genius and, like, perfectly done. That's like, what makes her work so thoughtful. Like you said.
- [55:00]
Amber A.C.
Yes.
- [55:00]
Jessica Strelioff
Stunning.
- [55:02]
Amber A.C.
Tomoko Miho, thank you for inspiring us. And thank you, Jessica, for joining me. It was so great to chat through your career and get to know you better. And I hope listeners really get something from your story as well.
- [55:18]
Jessica Strelioff
Thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun, Amber.
- [55:22]
Amber A.C.
And that's a wrap on today's episode. Tomoko Miho once said that good design is about understanding space positive, negative, and everything in between. And maybe what makes her work so powerful is that it gives us space too, to pause, to look and to feel. And she didn't chase trends. She didn't need to. Her work was timeless because it was honest. And a big thank you to Jessica Strelioff for joining me today. And sharing her perspective. If you want to check out her studio, head to to Goodside Studio or find her on Instagram Oodside Studio. You can also follow her personal account esskastrelief. I'll link all of these in the show notes for you. And if this episode moved you, made you think, or made you look up Tomoko's work the second we mentioned it? I'd love if you could leave a five star review or share it with a fellow designer. Every rating, every word and every share helps bring more visibility to the women whose names and legacies deserve to be known. Thank you for listening. And until next time, let's redesign history by celebrating women.