Women Designers You Should Know

Episode 049: Carolyn Davidson and Sarah Williams – The Woman Behind the Swoosh
Host: Amber Asay
Guest: Sarah Williams (Co-CEO, Beardwood & Co; President, AIGA NY)
Date: September 9, 2025

Episode Overview

Amber Asay welcomes Sarah Williams for a wide-ranging conversation spanning Sarah's journey from small-town Michigan to branding leadership in New York, and a deep dive into the extraordinary but understated legacy of Carolyn Davidson – designer of the Nike Swoosh. Together, they celebrate Davidson's iconic yet often-misunderstood contribution and discuss larger themes of recognition, value, and documenting women's impact in design history.

Sarah Williams: Creative Trajectory & Mentorship

Early Influences in Michigan

• Small-town upbringing:
  • "The town I grew up in was barely over a thousand people. It’s called Saranac, Michigan for anyone who’s spent time around there." (02:54)
  • Creative boredom led Sarah to explore art and music.
• Recreating album covers:
  • “I would pour over those album covers and think about, how can I recreate these? How can I sketch out every single detail? ... Punk rock and hip hop...there was this DIY aspect...it made you feel like you can be involved.” (03:30)
• Graphic design as culture:
  • Amber: “Graphic design isn’t an industry. It’s culture. It’s all around us.” (04:28)

Education & the Power of Female Mentorship

• Western Michigan University:
  • Led by Professor Tricia Hennessy, whom Sarah credits for her foundation in conceptual and rigorous design.
  • “She had come with a background from places like RISD, had studied with people like Wolfgang Weingart...She really is someone that from very early on taught me so much and influenced me in deep ways.” (06:19)
• Women’s visibility in design education:
  • Amber: “It’s rare too. Especially back in the day, it felt like a lot of the industry was led by men...It’s refreshing to hear that there were some women really paving the way and setting people up for success.” (07:50)

From Landor to Founding Beardwood & Co

• First job at Landor:
  • Landed via alumni connection; learned about brand worlds and global perspectives. (10:07)
  • “I feel like it was my graduate program.”
• Beardwood & Co origin story:
  • Joined as the first employee with founders Julia Beardwood and Ryan Lynch.
  • “You do everything in those days...You’re also buying the toilet paper.” (13:57)
• Major projects:
  • Westin Hotels global rebrand; critical for early agency growth. (15:12)
• Leadership transition:
  • The passing of torch to a second generation at a woman-founded agency is “incredible and very rare to see.” (17:57)
  • “It’s not just about us. It’s about this incredible team helping us think about that path forward.” (18:43)

Carolyn Davidson: Designer of the Nike Swoosh

Early Life and Initial Break

• Background:
  • Born in Oregon, 1943. Attended Portland State University, switched from journalism to graphic design (circa 1971).
• Meeting Phil Knight:
  • Knight, then an accounting professor and running Blue Ribbon Sports, hired Davidson for freelance design at $2/hour after hearing she couldn’t afford oil painting supplies. (21:42)

The Creation of the Swoosh: Process and Challenges

• Design prompt:
  • Needed a “stripe” for new line of shoes—a visual device akin to Adidas. She worked in analog, sketching on tissue and overlaying on shoes. (22:52, 23:56)
  • “He loved Adidas, he loved the stripes. When you really love something, try to get something to look over here at something different.” (23:44)
• Brief and iteration:
  • Focused on the concept of “speed.”
  • “She would... sketch on tissue paper and put it over a shoe to see how it would look and fit.” (23:56)
  • Spent two or three weeks sketching five or six options, including sunburst and wavy variations. (27:33)
• Presentation and client reaction:
  • Initial silence; eventual acceptance with tepid approval –
    • Phil Knight: “Well, I don’t love it, but maybe it’ll grow on me.” (28:38)
  • Sarah: “What she created is so much more instantaneously recognizable to literally almost anyone...Probably almost more than any other designer in history.” (25:13)

Icon Status and Design Integration

• Design as part of product:
  • “To create something that feels truly integrated into the product design and at home on the shoe itself...it is such an incredibly powerful test of what she created.” (27:13)
• Lasting cultural impact:
  • The Swoosh now features in collaborations like “Everyone Watches Women’s Sports” apparel.
  • “The literal miles that’s traveled while still feeling from that inception so at home... is such a powerful test of what she created.” (27:11)
• On young designers:
  • “That’s a good reminder... you could think of the same thing that someone 30 or 40 years into their career can think of.” (31:12)

Money, Recognition, and Value of Design

• Original payment:
  • Bill for the logo: $35 (about $300 today).
  • Amber: “It becomes this cautionary tale in the design world: don’t charge $35 for a logo...” (33:12)
• Stock and later recognition:
  • In 1983, Nike gifted Davidson 500 shares of stock, which may now be worth millions.
  • Sarah: “Hopefully that helped her out... Brand and brand design drives a significant amount of value for business impact and the bottom line.” (35:03)
  • Amber shares Davidson’s own remark: “She’s not a millionaire, but she feels well-paid.” (38:46)
• Lesson in value-based pricing and advocating for your work:
  • “There is something to getting that foundational experience. But ultimately considering the value, considering the potential is really, really important.” (35:03)

Branding Myths and Happenstance

• Nike name and symbol connection:
  • The Swoosh was designed before “Nike” was chosen; the visual resonance with the Greek goddess’s wing is a “happy accident.” (40:05)
  • “A lot of times we envision the perfect process...In reality, a lot of times things have to overlap or move quickly and you are often creating in this much more layered process.” (41:08)

Davidson’s Later Years and Legacy

• Post-Nike career:

  • Freelance designer for nearly 30 years; kept a low profile in Portland.
  • “She doesn’t seem to really want to put her work on display...There doesn’t seem to be a portfolio or a legacy beyond this Nike Swoosh.” (43:06)

• Why documenting work matters:

  • Amber recalls advice from Sean Adams (from a previous episode): “Always document your work and make sure it’s out there...If it’s not important to them, then why does it matter? But then it feels important for people after them to know, understand, and hear those stories and ...see the fact that these other women were out there and were designing.” (44:38)
  • Sarah agrees: “The more that we can show and tell and shine a light on the opportunities... That’s really powerful.” (46:09)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Sarah Williams:

  • “Being someone who maybe isn’t naturally have that kind of, you know, exhibition type, I think about [Davidson] and wonder about that as well...Sometimes as designers, we get into this because we’re visual communicators rather than verbal communicators.” (43:06)
  • “The best and most powerful ideas can come from anyone. It doesn’t mean you have to be the most...most years in the industry to come up with the best ideas.” (30:59)
  • “[The Swoosh]...has connected on that global scale in that immediate, recognizable, distinctive way, probably almost more than any other designer in history from those roots.” (25:13)

• Amber Asay:

  • “She almost feels like a one hit wonder because this is her main story. We don’t really know much about any other design work she’s done.” (20:33)
  • “Don’t charge $35 for a logo...But it comes with its own scenarios, too, like the fact that they weren’t really big, they didn’t have that much spare money.” (33:12)
  • “Design can echo far beyond the moment that it’s made...It’s also a reminder of documenting your work, making sure your legacy lives on, especially if you have a legacy like Carolyn Davidson’s.” (46:49)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Sarah’s Early Life and Influences: 02:41 – 05:48
• Mentorship and WMU Experience: 06:19 – 09:35
• Industry Career and Beardwood & Co. Formation: 09:35 – 13:57
• Westin Project & Agency Growth: 15:12 – 16:38
• Women’s Leadership in Design Agencies: 17:57 – 19:06
• Carolyn Davidson Backstory & Swoosh Origin: 19:54 – 24:06
• Design Process and Client Reaction: 27:33 – 29:03
• On Youth and Power of Fresh Ideas: 30:03 – 32:12
• The $35 Payment & Value of Design: 33:12 – 36:43
• Stock Recognition & Lasting Value: 38:15 – 39:39
• Brand Narrative and Swoosh Mythology: 40:05 – 41:08
• Legacy, Documentation, and Importance of Story: 43:06 – 46:09

Main Takeaways

• Women have always played foundational roles in design—even if history hides them.
• Carolyn Davidson’s Swoosh is not simply a logo, but a lesson in design’s enduring impact—regardless of recognition or compensation.
• Early-career designers can have world-changing ideas—and deserve appropriate value and visibility.
• Documenting and sharing work is vital for individual legacies and broader design history—especially for underrepresented voices.

Summary prepared in the spirit of the episode: making the extraordinary impact of women designers visible and unforgettable.