← Women Designers You Should Know
Women Designers You Should Know
Design Dialogues: Creative Burnout (w/ Badal Patel)
00:35:15
67% of creative professionals reported experiencing burnout, with women more likely to report feeling overwhelmed by their work environments. Badal Patel opens up about how she struggled with creative burnout, and what she does now to prevent it from happening.
Loading summary
Transcript61 lines
- [00:10]
Amber Ac
Hello and welcome to Women Designers. You should know the podcast that uncovers the groundbreaking stories of women in design history while also tackling the challenges designers face today. I'm your host Amber Ac, and for today's Design Dialogues topic, we're covering something that every design professional encounters at some point, creative burnout. And to help me further unpack what burnout looks like, how to spot the early signs, and the steps we can take to recover and protect our creativity, I am thrilled to welcome Badal Patel, who also goes by BE founder of Super Spicy, to help me break it all down. Before we dive in, I want to remind you all that your reviews mean so much to me. So if you enjoy the conversation, don't forget to drop a five star rating and share your thoughts. Okay, let's get into it. Before I get to my recorded session with be, let's chat a little bit about Creative burnout. If you've ever felt the weight of a project SAP your energy or struggle to reignite your passion, you're not alone. In fact, burnout is a common experience. And did you know that women are more likely to face this challenge? Studies reveal that they are disproportionately affected by the pressures of perfectionism and balancing multiple roles and sometimes even workplace bias. Creative burnout is a silent but persistent issue within the design world. Anyone can experience it. But research shows that women, particularly in creative fields, are more susceptible to burnout due to societal and professional pressures. According to a 2020 study by Adobe, 67% of creative professionals reported experiencing burnout, with women more likely to report feeling overwhelmed by their work environments. Can you believe that? That is mind blowing to me. So what does burnout really look like? For many women in design, it starts as an overwhelming sense of exhaustion or a feeling of being disconnected from the creative process. In fact, I reached out to my Women Designers broadcast channel on Instagram and asked the community to share their experiences and the responses were, of course, raw and very relatable. It was things like insomnia, anxiety, creative dullness, exhaustion, even feeling so overwhelmed that avoidance becomes the norm. For some, burnout shows up as permanent tiredness, like they're caught in a loop of being busy without feeling fulfilled. And others described a rush that never seems to end, lack of interest in creative outlets, and an overwhelming sense to just try to get through. And also, here's the thing. Burnout doesn't just lead to exhaustion. It stifles creativity, disrupts career progression, and leads to a cycle of self doubt. In creative industries where inspiration and innovation are Key. Honestly, burnout can feel like the loss of identity. And even some of the biggest names in design are, of course, no strangers to these challenges. In fact, a story that comes to mind is that of famed graphic designer Paula Scherr. She openly discussed her struggles with burnout. And I'm so glad that she's done this because it helps very many of us on the other end of their careers and just starting out really understand the challenges that many people face with this. So she once spoke openly about her struggle with burnout, describing periods where her passion felt dulled and the projects that used to inspire her started feeling like an endless grind. I've been there. It sucks. She even admitted that she hit a breaking point where design became less about joy and more about meeting external demands. Her journey back involved redefining her creative boundaries and allowing herself the freedom to experiment and make mistakes. Something that's easier said than done in high pressure environments. Another designer who faced burnout is Carolyn Davidson, who's the creator of the Nike Swoosh. Carolyn designed one of the most recognizable logos in history, and it was while she was a student. And the intense demands of freelance work soon took a toll. And as her fame grew, so did the pressure. She experienced burnout so much that she stepped back from design for a while, realizing that sustaining such a high intensity work life was taking a personal toll. Carolyn's experience underscores a reality many of us face. That success doesn't immunize us against burnout. Sometimes it heightens it. Ugh, that is so scary to think about. So why are women, particularly in creative fields, more susceptible to burnout? One reason is what's called the quote unquote double burden, which is placed on women who juggle both work responsibilities and home life. In fact, studies show. I know I keep saying this, but studies actually show that women, on average, are still more likely to manage household tasks or caregiving duties in addition to their professional workload. The added pressure can lead to chronic stress and exhaustion, especially when paired with high expectations at work. I feel like I'm covering this topic for my own knowledge and peace of mind because I'm hit with this all the time. Another factor of why women experience this so much is pressure for perfection. Research has shown that women in creative fields often feel a greater need to prove themselves, especially in industries where male voices dominate. Let me say that again. Women are feeling more creative burnout because we live in these male dominated industries. This can lead to what's called imposter syndrome, where women doubt their accomplishments despite Evidence of success and the need to consistently prove one's worth and to earn a place can become mentally exhausting, feeding directly into the burnout cycle. Even more troubling, creative fields sometimes foster a culture of endless availability, being always on, which can lead to chronic stress, anxiety and eventually a total shutdown. So hearing these stories can be reassuring, but I think finding practical solutions is just as important. So going back to the community, over on the broadcast channel, they shared some of the ways they overcome burnout. So things like taking breaks, going for walks, dancing, I loved that response. Or enjoying hobbies. Some of you even said you reset by looking at the sky, getting out in nature, training, or spending time with friends. I'm an extrovert, so I feel that to be true when I'm with friends, it fills my cup. And so you just have to know yourself and know the things that fill your cup and be aware of those things too and make a list of them. And then another thing that others found was going on road trips was inspiring. Or museums or writing poetry. Personally, I've also found that building a four hour work week, practicing saying no and getting better and better at saying no to set those boundaries, and crafting generous project timelines helped me stay balanced. So don't over commit and don't promise getting something done asap. And sometimes even raising prices, asking for a raise or reducing work volume can be a way to shift away from that scarcity mindset that fuels overworking. But I am here. I know this is all very daunting to hear, but I am here to share some good news is that burnout isn't an inevitable end, it's a signal. So look at it as a sign. It's your body, your mind, it's all telling you when you stretch too far. And it gives us the chance to recalibrate. Emma Gannon, who is a British author, she once put it that burnout is the result of doing too much for too long without enough time for joy. And so the other question I asked the community was what do you do to avoid burnout from happening again? It requires a proactive approach and this is an ongoing thing that you have to keep doing to make sure you're being careful. You're watching those things, maybe even set reminders to remember some of this stuff too. But some of your responses were planning and adding breaks in the schedule, taking time for myself, a couple of you said that. Some of you said respecting weekends and personal time, prioritizing yourself, being mindful of hours, not taking on so much work that I'm overextended. And even a couple of you said not sure yet. And that's a reality too. So with these insights in mind, let's get into my discussion with Bea, who has a wealth of experience navigating creative challenges and finding balance in her work. She even set up her studio to combat creative burnout. So she's here to share some powerful insights with us.
- [10:25]
Badal Patel
Welcome to the podcast.
- [10:28]
Be
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
- [10:29]
Badal Patel
Yeah, I'm so excited to talk all about your life and your career. And I think there's a lot of designers, and especially budding designers who love to hear about how designers get into where they are and hear more about their career journey and all of that. And so I think you'll be the perfect person to talk about all of this with. So starting off with your background, you grew up in Pennsylvania, is that right?
- [10:58]
Be
Yes. Outside of Philadelphia.
- [11:01]
Badal Patel
And you come from an Indian American household. Did your parents come over here or where does that migration happen in your family?
- [11:12]
Be
Yep, pretty much. My parents immigrated here in their 20s. They've been here for quite a long time. I was born in Pennsylvania and that's just how it happened.
- [11:25]
Badal Patel
Yeah, well, and I bet that your culture is still very much part of your and part of your upbringing. In fact, I heard that you were even kind of navigating a career journey and possibly almost studied biochemistry. Is that right?
- [11:44]
Be
Yes. I had. I had a very typical South Asian child of immigrant story, which is very much like you're kind of taught that the math and sciences lawyers like engineers, that the direction you want to head. It was weird because in high school I took AP Art and AP Bio. I knew I didn't want to like do art fully, but I also knew I didn't love science, but I just didn't know what else there was. And so I went into college doing biochemistry and I did that for two years and it was terrible. I pulled way too many all nighters. I learned very bad habits that took me a long time to break and that stuck with me into my professional career. So that, that was kind of something that I wish I would have taught myself or had learned earlier on.
- [12:42]
Badal Patel
What kind of bad habits?
- [12:44]
Be
Just not prioritizing myself or my health or my mental health or my physical health. You know, I was pulling way too many all nighters, working way too much, having no boundaries. I look back on it and it's like, it's hard because I want to give myself grace. Like, my parents couldn't really afford to have me in college for Six years. You know, they could. They could barely get to the four years. And so to switch your major into something that you might not even be guaranteed, it was very stressful. And I had to make sure that I was doing everything I could to fulfill my end, you know, and get myself this degree. And so I think with the portfolio reviews, I just threw everything I had into it. And that just created a vicious cycle and burnout.
- [13:29]
Badal Patel
So I definitely. You want to get into that as we talk more about your career and how you combated creative burnout and all of that too. But isn't that interesting that you first learn it in school when you're learning about all of the other design principles and practices and all of that?
- [13:48]
Be
Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy.
- [13:50]
Badal Patel
After you graduated, you worked at Clinique and Jones, Knowles Richie before founding your own studio. Can you tell me more about your experience as a new designer and getting your footing and all of that?
- [14:05]
Be
Oh, man. I think I was just really overwhelmed when I first started working. You're surrounded by so much amazing talent. You don't really know anything after you graduate college. Like, you have no idea what you're doing. And I think I had a tendency, and I probably still do, of putting a lot of pressure on myself. And I think a lot of people can kind of relate to that because they know what's good, but they might not have the skills yet or the craft yet to make it good. And I think that was the challenge that I suffered through for the first few years of working.
- [14:51]
Badal Patel
We were talking about burnout earlier. Is this something that you struggled with early on in your career? Tell us more about what you did to fight that or what you do even today, to fight that.
- [15:06]
Be
You know, I don't think I learned that lesson until after I quit the agency world and went on to my own. I think I just was in this, like, hamster wheel of just trying to keep up, because once you're in it, you just have to keep running. And I think it's hard with the ways studio operate. You know, when you have critiques, and sometimes the critiques are, like, really soon, and you just feel like you're just designing to get something up on the wall instead of trying to actually take step back and do the process you would normally do. And sometimes that just means doing research. You're not designing anything. And so it was difficult. And I think that just led to burnout, because if you're not doing things in the way, in the process that would actually get you somewhere, then you're not really getting anywhere. And then you have to show something for it. And so that was always something that I struggled with. And coming out of that, I think now I'm really firm with the way that I work. And it's hard because sometimes I'll have clients who come to me and they're like, I really want to work with you. Well, I need this, and I need this first and I need it in two weeks. And it's just like, we can't do that. And it's hard because sometimes you need the business. But ultimately I've learned that it's not worth it. It's just really not worth it. And you'll suffer, the work will suffer, everyone will suffer. And it's just there's a reason why we do things the way we do them, and it's important to keep that set.
- [16:40]
Badal Patel
Yeah, especially if you're working for bigger agencies. Was the environment in those places somewhat competitive? Were you competing against other designers for your work to win, to present to a client? Like, what was that environment like?
- [16:57]
Be
I wouldn't say we were competing, but I do feel like there was sort of a comparison that was just happening because that's the nature of what happens when we all put our work up together. We weren't necessarily competing to like win a project or work on a project like that. But I think it's hard when it's part of our jobs to put ourselves out there, put our work out there, and then see it up against our peers. And in school we're taught to have thick skin, but also like, take the feedback and take the critique. But it's hard, you know, when you've poured your soul into something not slept at all and just were human at the end of the day. Like, how do you navigate that? And so I think that was also a tricky thing that you have to navigate when you're working with an agency and with people.
- [17:49]
Badal Patel
Do you think creative burnout really hits a certain personality type? For example, is it like the ambition that leads there or is it your. Is it like a people pleasing side of you that really wants to impress people and that gets you there? Or what kinds of personality traits do you think leads to creative burnout?
- [18:14]
Be
Honestly, I think it's a lot of different things and it just depends on the type of person you are. I think for me, I think my drive and my sense of perfectionism was too much. I didn't know how to control it or know when to let go and be okay with that. And that was something I had to learn the hard way. I think some of the other things that you spoke to, like, people pleasing, that can probably definitely affect it as well, because you're so focused on trying to do something for the sake of somebody else, but then it takes away from what you're trying to do, or you just add more tasks to your own plate that are unnecessary. And so it just keeps you from reaching your goal. And so I think it's really important to be a little more introspective and attune with yourself and to figure out, like, why do I keep reaching burnout? And that could also just be the sheer amount of hours that you're working as well, you know? And I'd like to think that the industry has gotten better, but I know that's a challenge. And so, as creatives, it's also difficult when you are so passionate about a project and you want it to be really good. It's part of your pride. It's a part ego thing. It's also just, like, fun. Like, you get lost in it. And so it's a lot of different factors. I learned the hard way when, like, my neck gave out and I started having, like, physical, like, issues from working too much on my computer. I was like, oh, if I want to do this, I need to, like, take care of myself.
- [19:53]
Badal Patel
That's so true. And, like, another thing, at least for me, one thing that plays into it is the fear of failure. Do you think that was an underlying thing for you as well?
- [20:06]
Be
Totally. Totally. I feel like I was so afraid of failing, but failing is what moves you forward, and it's hard to see that when you're growing, and it's hard to see that now too. But I'm trying to get used to the idea of failing, and I actually picked up pottery to get better at this because, Hannah, I've seen that.
- [20:29]
Badal Patel
I love your pottery stories and makes me want to get into it. I'm like, oh, I think that's been on my to do list. How's that been going?
- [20:38]
Be
I highly recommend it. I wanted to humble myself, and I think pottery is the best way to do it.
- [20:45]
Badal Patel
Yeah.
- [20:46]
Be
Yeah. You get used to failing because every step of the process is another place where it can just go from great to just God in a second. And, you know, like, that's the point of it. It's just practice. I think we've forgotten that it takes practice, you know, and you're gonna make a bunch of really shitty things, and that's okay. Like, we don't need to make the end product on the first try or the first 10 tries, or the first hundred tries. We just need to learn how to fail more so that we do more, because that's the only way we're going to grow.
- [21:22]
Badal Patel
That's a really interesting, like, kind of cycle that you're outlining there too, is you've got this, like, creative burnout problem. And it might be because you fear failure and you're overworking yourself, but there's a sense of giving into failure and that failure is okay, and it actually needs to be part of the process in order to have the outcome you need. And that's the healthy cycle there too, is that it's instead of creative burnout, the way to combat that is giving way to failure. Is that kind of what you're saying, or is that the cycle that is healthy?
- [22:01]
Be
I think for me, failure is definitely.
- [22:04]
Badal Patel
Part of the process.
- [22:05]
Be
And I think whenever I try to resist it, I end up giving myself off more anxiety, and that can lead to more burnout. There's just too much pressure involved. And so I think getting used to failing, getting comfortable with it, and just pushing yourself, knowing that it might not be the right outcome. And that's okay because you do have the skill set to get it there in that trust and that confidence in yourself to get it there in the end, it's worth honing that skill. And it's also just fun. You can just have fun. Yeah. It doesn't have to be so precious and, like, serious all the time. When we push ourselves, when we challenge ourselves, we can only do that through failure. And we'll learn more and the work will probably be better because we discovered something new. Yeah.
- [22:50]
Badal Patel
In fact, a lot of this reminds me of Jessica Walsh and how she has talked a lot about creative burnout in her life. I remember when she did that. Was it like 40 days of dating or that project?
- [23:06]
Be
I think so.
- [23:07]
Badal Patel
I remember reading that as it was happening, and she was literally having physical issues that she had to go to the doctors for and do checkups on and figure out, like, what is wrong with me? Why do I have constant headaches? Her conclusion with all of that was that it was really just creative burnout. She was working way too much, way too hard. Had constant migraines and all of that. And she's been very open about her own creative burnout, too. And one thing that she's emphasized is personal projects and, like, passion work. And she's like a big advocate for side projects. And she's did this huge initiative. Ladies, wine. And design, creating a community to help bring women together in the design industry and all of that. And I've always appreciated her honesty about this stuff too, because I think it is a huge issue within the design industry and something that maybe isn't talked about enough or people aren't really finding the solutions for it that much. And I think every person's solution looks different. But she's talked about taking breaks, stepping away from work when needed, giving yourself time to recharge, and, like, basically making sure your battery never goes to zero and finding ways to just keep it going and keep it running. Are there any other side projects or personal projects beyond the pottery you've been doing that keep you fueled?
- [24:46]
Be
Honestly, I think it's, for me, more about saying no. I think I was doing too much, and I was trying to do all the things and I had all these ideas and I was taking on all these projects, and that was leading to my burnout. At some point, I realized in order for me to function, I just really needed to pay attention to the quality of my sleep, moving my body, and eating well.
- [25:18]
Badal Patel
Yes, the basics, the basics, the basics.
- [25:23]
Be
Who would have thought, right?
- [25:27]
Badal Patel
That's what they say you need. You need sleep and water.
- [25:31]
Be
Drinking water. Maybe it's just because when we're like, younger, we just have all this energy and nothing phases us and we're just like, can do all of these things and it doesn't really take a toll on our bodies. But I think if you're not taking care of your core foundation, at least for me, like, it would do more of a disservice than a service.
- [25:53]
Badal Patel
Would you say starting your own studio was that big? No. To create a burnout, was that like, your first step to saying, no, I need to take care of myself?
- [26:05]
Be
I think so, yeah. There's just like, a lot of toxic things that happens in our industry, and I think I just needed to reevaluate how I wanted to work. And the more that I worked for myself, the more I realized I just couldn't go back to the industry and I had to work for myself because I freelanced, like, here and there. And I just, every time I did, I was like, I can't do this. And so I think I finally made it official after five years of being on my own, to finally just call myself the studio, because I, at least for now, don't plan on going back.
- [26:44]
Amber Ac
Yeah.
- [26:45]
Badal Patel
You know, there's also this conversation about working in house versus working agency side and how sometimes in house has more work, life balance and you're leaving at a specific time. You're not expected to stay late or work weekends for a big client presentation. You've seen both sides of that coin. Would you agree? Is there a different version of creative burnout at each place in house can.
- [27:13]
Be
Get a little monotonous and repetitive, and so there's a different type of staleness that you might feel with larger brands or companies that you're working for. There is a much longer chain, a ladder that you have to go through with approvals. And so that can also be difficult when presenting concepts and stuff like that. And so I think when you're in an agency, you get to work on a lot of, like, different projects and different types of brands and work, but the pace feels like it's much faster. And so that can also be difficult. And so, you know, and I think I was like, okay, I want to tap out now.
- [27:59]
Badal Patel
Yeah. And so now your studio. I love the name Super Spicy. Is that your way of finding balance between those things where you get to be creatively driven, but you get to pace yourself as well?
- [28:14]
Be
Yeah, that's what I'm striving to do. And sometimes I'm more successful at it than other times. It's hard, as I'm sure you know. I think for me, the biggest reason why I'm doing this is to create the type of life that I want to live. And if I'm not doing that, then I might as well just go work for somebody else who sets the rules. And just because there's so much you have to do when you're running a studio, for me to take on that responsibility, it needs to be worth it in the end. And so I think being able to control the types of people that I'm working with, the rate at which we're working and how much we're taking on is really important.
- [28:55]
Badal Patel
And you've talked about this idea of setting boundaries and saying no to protect your creative health and all of that. So what projects do you say yes to?
- [29:06]
Be
Honestly, I say yes to projects that feel like passion projects. I want to be working on passion projects, but, like, with that would also come the type of person that I'm working with. And that's one that I've had to learn the hard way. And you're almost like vetting people. And it's important because I think sometimes I don't know if it's because I'm a woman or a woman of color, but it feels like sometimes I have to prove myself. And the work that I've Done. And I've realized that those types of relationships don't end well. There's just a lack of trust. And for me, it's really important. It's not just the lack of trust. It's also this unwillingness to even hear the person and entertain their solutions or their thoughts or their ideas. It doesn't build trust. It doesn't make for a good, healthy relationship of working together, and it also doesn't make for good work. There's a lot of things I think are important when picking a project, and I think the people that you're working with is also a big component to it.
- [30:14]
Badal Patel
That's so true. And, yeah, honestly, sometimes working with clients who understand you or have, like, maybe cultural similarities or racial similarities or are the same gender or things like that play a huge part in that collaborative process and into the trust of it and the outcome of it all, too, because then you can put those differences aside and focus on the work and create something beautiful together. And it's sad that we still live in a world where that happens, too. And really, it's just a hope that we can eventually get there. But I've noticed that, too, with women run studios that are getting set up all over the place. And it's becoming a huge trend, especially in the last three to five years, where there's a lot of women who are getting pushed out of these agency spaces and these much bigger design places, I guess you could say, and are working with their own people that they want to work with, and that those clients seek out those kinds of people because they're similar to them. And so, like, at least in my studio, we work with women all the time. And I think it's just because women want to work with other women, too, and feel more comfortable in those settings. And we do have male clients as well, but majority of them are women. And I think it just is a thing, you know, like, it's something you can't ignore because there is something there.
- [31:55]
Be
Yeah. I think it speaks to the fact that jobs weren't really created to serve women in a way that we need to operate with women having babies and getting back to work and working those hours. Like, it's just not a realistic setup. We've realized that we want more for ourselves, and I think that's great.
- [32:16]
Badal Patel
Okay, I have one last question that I want to ask you, but I have been thinking a lot about your narrative and your story and how, you know, this idea of creative burnout and starting with something completely different, a different career path or what you thought you needed to be and getting to where you are now. And so I guess I'm curious if you have advice for your younger self. Thinking about who you were as a budding biochemist and thinking that this was your life, what would you tell your younger self?
- [32:55]
Be
Well, first I would tell her it's all going to be okay.
- [32:58]
Amber Ac
Yeah.
- [33:00]
Badal Patel
To just breathe.
- [33:03]
Amber Ac
Yes.
- [33:05]
Be
I would just tell myself to have fun. I get so worked up in the details trying to make it look beautiful and like, again, like, so scared of failing that I kind of sucked the fun out of it and made it into something that was more challenging than it needed to be. And so, yeah, like, you're young. Just have fun. You know, like, experiment, fail. Just. Just try different things and it's all going to be okay.
- [33:38]
Badal Patel
That is the best advice. Honestly, I think that's so beautifully said. And I think it's something we can constantly remind ourselves of too, with the whole creative burnout thing and the idea of the failure get back up process and all of it. Like, it all just comes down to letting loose and just enjoy yourself, enjoy life, enjoy the process.
- [34:04]
Be
Totally.
- [34:05]
Badal Patel
Thank you so much for joining me today. It was so great to hear more about your story and get to know you even better than I already do. And yeah, I've just really enjoyed this conversation. So thank you.
- [34:20]
Be
Of course, thank you for having me. I enjoyed it as well.
- [34:25]
Amber Ac
I always love an enlightening conversation and that was such a good one with be. It was filled with actionable insights for anyone feeling the weight of creative burnout. We've learned that burnout doesn't mean the end of creativity. It's a sign that you need to take care of yourself, refocus, and find balance in your work. So if you enjoyed this episode, I encourage you to leave a review or share it with someone who might be facing their own creative struggles. And a huge thank you to all who have already supported the show. It truly helps us bring these important conversations to life. Thank you for listening and we'll see you next time on Design Dialogues. And as always, let's redesign history by celebrating women.