B (2:32)

That's right.

A (2:33)

Yeah, I happen to call you.

B (2:35)

That's right. I got the news and you literally called like, like five minutes later. That's what happened.

A (2:41)

Yeah, I called and then Irene revealed to me, very upset, that, well, maybe you should say this, Irene.

B (2:51)

Well, okay. So of course Rachel calls me five minutes after I get this alarming news that I have stage 3B colorectal cancer. And I was stunned, absolutely stunned. As you can Imagine when you hear those words, the world kind of freezes. And I was just in a state of paralysis, only to get a call from Rachel, which was kind of woo, woo in itself that you called just as I got that news. Just trying to process the fact that I was diagnosed with stage three colorectal cancer. And the year was obviously started off with a real shit show. You know, I went in for a colonoscopy on January 17, and then on January 20, Inauguration Day, when America was diagnosed with cancer. I also got a cancer diagnosis. That's right. So it was a double cancer diagnosis. And my life has been. It just sent me into a whirlwind. I don't know what to say. I mean, I was in a. I didn't want to talk about it initially. Rachel, you were one of the only and few people that I told during this process. And I just want to say you were so there for me. I hope I don't start breaking down on the show, but I. You were so supportive. And anything that you ever think about Rachel Dratch, how you love her, the characters that she portrays, is nothing compared to the enormity of her heart and how she was there for me. And I'm getting really emotional right now. Oh, no, me too. I'm getting emotional because I just made a decision as, you know, not to tell a lot of people when I got this diagnosis because I couldn't even, you know, manage my own emotions. And it would be really, really difficult for me to manage other people's emotions. So I decided to keep it under my hat. I was in a state of paralysis for a few days in fetal position alongside Steve, who, by the way, prior to this, I was contemplating divorce. Now I wanna say that you really know somebody's character. You know, somebody's character, Rachi, when they step up during a health crisis. And. And, boy, did my husband wait.

A (5:15)

But wait, you weren't really contemplating divorce, were you?

B (5:17)

Well, I mean, you know, I'm embellishing for this story.

A (5:22)

It's like, stand up, stand up. Okay.

B (5:24)

I'm infused.

A (5:25)

Steve definitely stepped up. Let's put it that way.

B (5:28)

He did stood up. He's a Taurus, which complements cancer. So it was a lovely, seamless relationship. During this whole time, he really stepped up, and then it's off to the races as, you know, trying to get, you know, treatment, trying to figure out this cancer world that I've never, you know, lived through before. Obviously, it was. I'm dealing with the fear that I'm gonna die because Initially, when you get like the diagnosis that you have cancer, for me, for me. And I'm only. I just wanna say, anybody who's. Who's dealing with cancer out there, I love you. Anybody who has a family dealing with cancer, I love you. This is specifically my story. And I have to re. Emphasize and emphasize. This is only my story that I'm sharing. And this happened to work for me. I was in a state of paralysis. I thought I was gonna die. That's all I could hear is, you have cancer, you're gonna die. That's it. Because to me, cancer seems so final. But as we know, I'm here and I'm talking about my experience. It's not. So I had to have Steve, you know, I. I couldn't deal with. I didn't have the. The bandwidth to deal with making all my appointments and all that stuff. So Steve actually stepped up and handled making the appointments. Go ahead. You have a question?

A (6:40)

No, I was gonna say, as the person observing you on this journey, that from the kind of the beginning you mentioned wanting to use like, homeopathic. I don't know if you used that word, but you mentioned even. Well, we ended up going to the doctor. The oncologist.

B (6:59)

Yes.

A (7:00)

And you brought up to this doctor and you said, like, is there any way I can do this on my own? And I'm thinking like, Irene, like. I mean, I'm just thinking, well, you wanted to explore all options, which is good, as anyone should. But you were also going into the, you know, belly of the beast of Western medicine as. And this is going to be like, we're going to say this like 10,000 times that. 10,000 caveats. What am I trying to say? I mean, my dad had cancer. And so of course, when you find out someone has it, you want to think your way out of it and do all the namaste and positive. Like, the amount of which you love life doesn't always get you through. But when Irene was bringing up. Trying to think outside the box, I was kind of like, okay, great. As a supplemental idea, sure. Anyway, continue.

B (8:00)

That's right. And it didn't happen overnight. As you know, I was considering a chemo, but there was something so terrifying for me personally. Only me, I have to constantly say that and re. Emphasize that this was my journey because I don't wanna be dogmatic about the way that I approach this and the path that I took. You know, it worked for me. I don't wanna start pontificating on the way that things should be done. Okay, so for me, what happened was that I was considering chemo. I really was. But the thought of getting chemotherapy terrified me personally more than the cancer itself. And that is really coming from. This is like, a real truth of mine. I was terrified of chemotherapy. I was terrified of getting the port installation. I was just terrified of that whole process. And that in itself led me on this different path.

A (8:50)

Now, when we went to this first doctor, and these are all, like, you know, reputable hospitals and everything, I just went to listen in and take notes. As, you know, sometimes you need the extra person there to power through because you're emotional. But anyway, the first doctor said, chemo, radiation, surgery. And when you brought up potential alternatives, she kind of was like. She was gentle, but she sort of said no, Right? I mean, not in so many words, but then.

B (9:17)

Not in so many words, but yes.

A (9:19)

To your credit, you were, like, really wanting to find someone who would consider your wishes, and you did a ton of research, and you found someone at Weill. Cornell, by the way, right?

B (9:35)

Yes, I did.

A (9:37)

This is a real doctor? Real.

B (9:39)

Yes, she is.

A (9:40)

Yes. And you enter. And I went to that one, too. And she seemed more open to your wacky ideas. No, she seemed more open. She was like, well, I mean, this is what I remember. She basically said, like, do as you wish. Like, okay, let's also say that Irene had a tumor, and they weren't sure how much it had spread. They couldn't. If it had spread whatever. They didn't even know if it had spread at all to lymph nodes, because they can't know no matter how many scans. Right. Irene. Until they go in. But it's sort of important to note, I think, that this was a tumor that you were kind of going in with. It wasn't something more systemic, which, I mean, again, I'm not a doctor. I'm the daughter of a doctor and not even a oncologist. But anyways, so she was a little more like, well, we'll see. It could be chemo. It could be surgery, it could be radiation. It could be some combo.

B (10:43)

Right. Well, what happened was, after I went to the first doctor that I dragged you to, I did want to burden the rest of my friends, but I had no problem unloading this big, giant bullshit chaos on Drachi at all. I was like, all on you, sweetie. On your shoulders. Anyway, after I decided, because it's a vetting process, and I think anybody who has cancer or has been dealing with cancer or if. If you just got diagnosed, you know, they tell you that, you know, sometimes it feels like a rushed situation. Take your time. Like, again, I wanna be very careful with my words. Okay? Really do. But in my case, I had time. I really did have time to also, you know, go through a vetting process. It's very important to get more than just one or even two opinions. So after I went to the first one, I felt like she couldn't answer a couple of my questions. I don't know if you remember that. And I didn't feel wholly comfortable with her. Cause it was kind of like a 101 medical school that she couldn't answer. And like Rachel said, I really went deep down in a rabbit hole of educating myself. And we're not talking about, you know, chat GPT. We're talking about, you know, I read a lot of medical journals. I actually was led to people that work for NASA. Big, big deals. Like a renowned nutritionist. Healers, a lot of healers. I had discussions with healers. People that have cured themselves of cancer using the same methods that I'm speaking about. Same stuff, you know, and you hear it all the time now with social media. A lot of people are coming out on TikTok talk on Instagram and they're sharing their cancer stories. And a lot of them are taking this holistic route. Again, this doesn't work for everybody. I met my doctor that Rachel's talking about. I met her and I really loved her because I felt like there was a lot of gaslighting. I hate to say it with me, in my situation with some of the doctors that I'd spoken with, there was some gaslighting involved because they really just point blank told me that if I didn't do chemo, I would die. I was told that, I was told that. That it would spread and I would die. So this woman that I was known as being a pioneer, I call her my bra burning bitch. And I love her, by the way. She's a pioneer. She kind of gets off the hamster wheel. And she listened to me. That's all I think, right, Rachel? She listened to me. And I think sometimes that's what a great doctor does. They just listen to you. And, you know, like Rachel mentioned, it was a tumor. I was diagnosed with a 5 centimeter tumor. And. And by the time I went to this doctor, I felt like the tumor was shrinking. I had started, and I'm gonna share what I was taking, but obviously I had to change my diet. Rachel, as you well know.

A (13:18)

Okay, wait, just to like, just to build the story though, you went to this doctor that I went to with and you felt much better about it, I think. Okay, I wanna set up like how did you start this regimen? Like when did you start and how did you start this regimen that you found?

B (13:33)

Okay, so I started reading a lot of books like Chris Beats Cancer, Radical Remission and talking to People and I was extracting a lot of their diets, which was I learned through my research that cruciferous vegetables. Raw.

A (13:47)

Cruciferous.

B (13:48)

Cruciferous. Thank you. I still can't pronounce it. And I'm the one that had cancer, sweetie, so put that in your pipe and smoke it. Cruciferous.

C (14:03)

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C (16:03)

In the app, online and in stores.

B (16:17)

Which cruciferous vegetables are cabbage, cauliflower, brussels sprouts, broccoli.

A (16:23)

Yeah, okay. Brussels sprouts, broccoli, cabbage, and cauliflower.

B (16:28)

All those fun food.

A (16:29)

The miracle fruit, the miracle veggies.

B (16:32)

The miracle veggies, Yes. I started those. Yes.

A (16:35)

You start reading, you see this diet, and you start on this, like, while you're seeing these doctors, like, before you even went in or after.

B (16:43)

I started right away. Once I was out of my state of paralysis and I wrapped my head around my situation and what was happening, I immediately started educating myself, and I started immediately.

A (16:56)

Now, here's what I remember. The fun went out the window.

B (16:59)

The fun went out the window, sweetie.

A (17:01)

I just thought you had cancer. You couldn't drink, you couldn't eat sugar, you couldn't eat anything. No, I'm obviously kidding about this, but. No, what I remember is you had to eat, like, a rabbit's feast at every meal. Like, no. Nothing even cooked, right?

B (17:16)

No, no, it wasn't cooked. I mean, I could have. No. Well, I had raw veggies. I didn't cook my veggies. I was 80% raw foodist with all the raw veggies. And then I had, like, you know, like, organic quinoa pasta. I still had pasta, and I had an occasional, like, organic turkey burger, you know, but it was predominantly raw food, and it was no fun at all. Sweetie, the. It was awful. I couldn't marg with Rachel. I said, ladies, no more dinners because I didn't want to be the one. Everybody's ordering enchiladas and margaritas. And I was like, I'll take some raw cabbage and broccoli and make sure there's no cross contamination.

A (17:55)

It was kind of isolating.

B (17:56)

It was very isolating.

A (17:58)

So you start this diet, and then there was. I mean, I sound like a crackpot because again, we're going to say 10,000 times 10,000 times. We don't want anyone hearing this and not listening to their doctor. Okay. I like. That's why I was, like, reluctant to do this. But I have to share this, and so does Irene.

B (18:20)

Yes. Because it's my story. And there's countless stories like this.

C (18:23)

Exactly.

B (18:24)

As well.

A (18:24)

But on top of this diet, there was also herbs involved, Right?

B (18:29)

There were herbs involved. And let me just say, just piggybacking on. On. On what Rachel just said. You know what? You can listen to your doctor, but I implore people. I implore people to ask questions. Ask your doctor fucking questions. Do not be afraid to ask Questions, no matter how ignorant or asinine you feel that they may be, ask questions, be involved. You know, this is your autonomous decision. You need to advocate for yourself. And believe me, I'm shitty at advocating for myself. I am great at advocating for other people that I love, but I am terrible. I take a backseat when it comes to myself all the time.

A (19:04)

That's a great point to emphasize, because I will say throughout all this, I was really marveling at you, because when you first suggested this, I was just like, okay, like, that's what everyone wants to think, that you can, like, you know, like, think your way out of this or herb your way out of this or whatever. And you were adamant that you wanted to do everything you could to avoid chemo, radiation, et cetera. And I think if that were me, I would have just been, like, you know, buckled into the western medicine machine, and I wouldn't have asked questions. I'm sure I wouldn't. And I would just go along with what they told me. So it's true. Like, there's a fine line between doing all your research, advocating, and then, like, not being a dumb. Dumb about thinking you can, like, whatever, drink apple cider vinegar and save, you know, like. So again, this is Irene's individual story, which we'll say 10 more times, but I was really in awe of your self. I don't know.

B (20:06)

Determination, Advocacy and determination.

A (20:08)

Right. So then you're doing herbs, too, which you found this.

B (20:12)

Right.

A (20:13)

Where did you find this herbs menu.

B (20:17)

Once I decided that chemo was not an option for me, radiation was out. I also. There were other factors that caused me to veto the idea of chemo, and that was that I have Lyme disease, which, you know, chemo leaves you vulnerable. It kills the healthy and the. The unhealthy kills the cancer, but it also kills the good cells. And I felt like my body would be left vulnerable and I could worsen. So there were other factors leading up to why I wanted to do a holistic immunotherapy. That's all I did. I wanted to bolster my immune to the point that it would fight the cancer and cure itself. My body could cure itself by fighting the cancer with natural immunotherapy. So I started reading about that. I started talking to people. I started talking to healers that started telling. I was asking questions about, like, the mushrooms. Now, we know the mushrooms have been lauded for. There's a lot of progress with mushrooms in psychiatry. A lot of people are using them for mental health purposes. They're also brilliantly used for health benefits. So that's what I decided to do. I decided to really look deeply into mushrooms, and I looked at everything that each thing does. For example, one of the main things that I used. But I have to before I move on to the mushrooms. I really radically changed my lifestyle, didn't I, Rachel? Yes. I ate a certain way. I wasn't even doing standup. And I avoided the news. I did avoid the news because I get so incensed. So I just decided that I was gonna do everything to just cause myself to focus on healing myself, you know, without any distractions. That was what I decided to do for myself. So I looked into the mushrooms. I looked into turkey T. Still.

A (22:01)

Is that a mushroom?

B (22:02)

Yes, turkey tail is a mushroom. And how did you.

A (22:05)

Like, obviously you weren't like any old mushroom. Like, how did you know which mushroom? Like, where did you find this information?

B (22:12)

Okay, well, this information came from msk, Sloan Kettering.

A (22:16)

Oh, okay.

B (22:17)

We have a friend that works there, and she works in the integrative medicine department. And she said a lot of people have been using turkey tail not only to combat the. The side effects of chemotherapy, but also you. And she said this, you know, on. On the DL, she said, I've been reading on turkey tail, and a lot of people have actually been curing themselves as well. Like, they've been taking turkey tail. Turkey tail causes apoptosis. What apoptosis is, is it stops cancer spread. It stops metastasis. So I really looked into the mushrooms, and then there's many more mushrooms that also help support this.

A (22:53)

Yes, question. Turkey tail. You ordered these things, like, on Amazon or something, right?

B (22:57)

I did. That's a great question, Rachel, because I looked into some of these fancy holistic cancer. I don't even know what to call them. Spas or hospitals or centers. And they cost. I'm gonna tell you, $6,000 a week and 350,000 a year. And there's. Yes, you heard me. Wait a minute. You heard me.

A (23:21)

But do you mean it costs that just for the herbs?

B (23:24)

It costs that for. For, like, the cancer care? For cancer care. But I think that's an exorbitant amount of money. And in vida for. For 14 treatments is 120,000 dol. Arizona. I got on the phone, and I talked to them. That kind of incenses me, because you can still listen. And again, I'm not saying that people shouldn't go to these centers, but I don't want people that want to take a holistic route that are not in the top 1% and can afford this kind of care. To be discouraged and think that there's no hope for them. Because like Rachel just said, you can get these. I got everything on Amazon and it's extremely affordable.

A (24:01)

Or like a health food store.

B (24:02)

I mean, or a health food store. If you hate Amazon.

A (24:04)

I know.

B (24:05)

And you're boycotting Amazon.

A (24:07)

It's worth your life to.

B (24:08)

Right?

A (24:09)

I guess if you have to go to Amazon for your life.

B (24:11)

Trader Joe's.

A (24:13)

Does turkey tail come in? Like, does it look like. Sorry, I'm getting really detailed, but I've never asked you. But does it look. Is it like a powder? Is it like a capsule? Or like, how does it. How does it arrive? And how did you know how much to take?

B (24:24)

Right. Well, the instructions are on the bag. I happen to take organic turkey tail, and it's a powder and it comes with a little scoop and you just put it in your coffee. That's it. It's easy, breezy.

A (24:35)

And then you had other mushrooms, too.

B (24:36)

Or other reishi, shiitake, cordyceps, lion's mane. But again, this is like, I call it God's pharmacy. And it's very powerful. Know these herbs, because these herbs can also hurt you. So know what you're taking, for example, somebody who has breast cancer shouldn't be taking lion's mane because it could cause tumor growth in breast cancer. Let me say it again. Could cause tumor growth in breast cancer. But for me, it was perfectly safe and it served my purposes.

A (25:05)

And so how does someone know. Like, how did you know? Like, this particular mix of herbs is good for. Like, you did all this. You were like, freaking. I've never even seen this movie. But I feel like you. Lorenzo's oiled your way through this. But, like, how did you know? I know you did extensive research.

B (25:24)

I researched.

A (25:25)

But, like, how does one. Like, I feel like I would get stymied and just be like, I don't know. Like, you know, how did you know which was right for you?

B (25:34)

Well, I. Again, I did a lot of research and talked to a lot of people. I was connected with the right people that people that had colorectal cancer. People had colon cancer. Like our friend Taron. I want to give Taron a shout out. I love her. She had colo. Colon cancer. She had actually colon cancer 10 years ago. She did folfox, which is a chemotherapy. She's doing great. I just want to throw that out there. Okay. She's doing great for me. I decided to take this route. So I talked to people that did this holistic route. And then I just, you know, the truth is I just researched every single herb so that I knew how it would affect my particular cancer. I researched everything and I found some, some discrepancies in books. In books, in Chris beats cancer. He really promotes Essiac. And I'm, I'm calling it out right now. Essiac, which is a tonic from Canada. And then I found out that that could cause tumor growth. So I called up the company and I told them to discontinue sending it to me. You know, I' taken it a few times. So you have to be very careful because herbs are equally as powerful as any pharmaceutical. Okay. I just made sure to study. Rachel. Bottom line, I just, everything I was taking, I was very concerned about how it was going to affect my, My tumor, my. And metastasis.

A (26:58)

Well, I don't have a cat. I have a dog.

C (26:59)

Her name is Ruffles.

A (27:00)

In case you've been listening to this podcast, and if you've been listening, you know that an animal communicator told me that Ruffles prefers fresh food. That's what she wanted me to know. Well, if you have a cat, I can only assume they feel the same way as Ruffles and they would also like fresh food. If they could tell you that themselves, they would.

C (27:18)

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A (27:53)

To give Walnut a popsicle experience. But that's just because Jen really cares.

C (27:58)

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A (29:48)

Okay, so, so you go to this doctor and you kind of already started it and you tell her you've started it. And then she says, I remember she said, okay, you can do that, but my job is to save your life. And so if it comes to push comes to shove and I need to. You need to do chemo, I'm going to strongly suggest that or radiation. That's what I remember her saying. You can do this. This particular thing won't harm you. But she wasn't like poo pooing you, but she was just giving you the lowdown, you know.

C (30:25)

So then.

A (30:27)

You go back after having done this diet.

B (30:31)

Well, also let me just add to that, she also listened to me, which was amazing. I told her, I feel the tumor is shrinking. I really feel the tumor is shrinking. And she said, yeah. And I said, yeah, and how do you feel? She was the first doctor that didn't take dismiss. And this is what I meant about gaslighting. Every doctor that I told that I felt better, they were dismissive. They said that doesn't matter. Exact words, that doesn't matter. I was like, how can my overall energy and health feeling phenomenal. I'm feeling like I did like 10 years ago. How can that be discounted? She was the only one that that really listened to me and Said, really? You're feeling great? Let's. Let's get an MRI, remember? And then we got the MRI, and guess what happened? It went from 5 centimeters, this was the first shrink, to 3.9.

A (31:17)

And she was kind of blown away, right? That's what I remember.

B (31:20)

She was blown away. A month later, I got another mri, and it went to. And I knew it. I said, steve, the only thing that's gonna shock me is if this tumor didn't shrink. And I said, I see 2.9. Cause I always think I'm psychic, sweetie, in my mind's eye. And then we got the results, and it was actually 2.8. So it went from 5cm now and it shrunk to 2.8.

A (31:43)

And what this meant was there was something about the size of it, because if it got down to a certain size, that meant you could just do surgery for now. Like, surgery could be the first step if it got down to a certain size. So you, through this diet and herbs, shrunk your own tumor, and then you got to do the surgery where they could. Because sometimes they want to do chemo to shrink it and then go do surgery. Is my understanding I might be wrong again, not a medical doctor.

B (32:14)

No, you are, but you're.

A (32:16)

Is that wrong?

B (32:17)

A daughter of a doctor, sweetie. And you did absorb something, sweetie? Yes.

A (32:20)

Wait, was that right?

B (32:21)

Okay, that was right.

A (32:22)

Because they wanted to shrink it certain mass that then they couldn't just do surgery or they wouldn't want to whatever. So you got it down to the point where now you could just do surgery. Then they go look at what they have. You do that, and what do they find? Oh, they also couldn't quite tell the stage without opening you up, Right? I don't remember.

B (32:41)

Right. They couldn't tell the stage and.

A (32:42)

Sorry, go ahead. So then you have the surgery and you find out what.

B (32:47)

So here's the thing. Before you know you're right, I just want to touch base and say that I couldn't have the surgery because if I had the surgery, I would need a permanent stoma, which is a colostomy bag. And this kid does not do scat fanny packs, sweetie. Let's be honest, right? I was like, I'm not doing a colostomy bag. I was very honestly, it was like, I don't know what I was thinking. In many ways, I was like, I don't want a colostomy bag. I don't want to do chemo. I mean, who do you think you are? Like. Like, you know, we gotta. We gotta get rid of this thing. I don't. I mean, if I. If I had to do it again, I don't know that I would do it because I would think that I'm crazy, actually. Okay. That's the honest truth. I don't know. At that time, I just had. I just had a lot of chutzpah, sweetie. A lot of chutzpah. You did. So I. I told my surgeon that that's why he wanted to do chemo, so that he could pursue the surgery. But it still was a very precarious spot. It was a closer, lower to the rectum, and so he would still have to trepidatiously handle that surgery. I think that he just wanted to do chemo so that we could avoid the surgery entirely. But when I shrunk it to 2.8, I got the green light for the surgery.

A (33:55)

Amazing.

B (33:56)

Amazing.

A (33:56)

This is amazing. I mean, I know this, but I'm hearing it again and it's just amazing. Anyway, keep going.

B (34:02)

It's so amazing because really, my goal was shrink it and then get it out of me. Get the surgery. That was my goal. Avoid chemo. Shrink it holistically with what I call, you know, organic immunotherapy. And then get the surgery and be done with it. Get it completely out of my body so I can go back to what's important. Marging with you and the girls. Sweetie.

A (34:26)

I knew you were gonna. I almost said in unison, but I didn't wanna be flipped.

B (34:30)

Oh, why?

A (34:30)

I wanted to margin. Okay, so they go in and they find that it had not spread, right? Or what did they find? I might be wrong.

B (34:39)

Well, from the mri, they not only find out that it didn't spread, but they found out that it actually receded. Depth of invasion, too. So not only did the tumor shrink, but the cancer itself was receding. Okay. Which means it was going away. I'm. What? I'm. What is it called? The spontaneous remission. I'm a statistic of spontaneous remission. That's when it's inexplicable by science. They don't understand how it happened. Of course, I fully know how it happened. Really? Because I was living it. My body knew how it was happening because I felt it. Now, again, this is my story. I just knew deep in my soul. We've heard Julianne Hough talk about the mind body connection. Mine was so strong that at the end of this process, when I had the surgery done, the surgeon came in, who was this man from Stanford. He's a Stanford graduate, top of his Class. He's a brilliant surgeon, works at a top hospital. And he said, irene knows what she's doing. She's got a very strong mind, body connection. And I was like, like, sweetie, you're always gonna be my plan B. Seriously, if anything happens with Steve, you're next. Okay. Cause I fell in love with him when he used that term with me. He's like, irene knows her body. And then I had the surgery. Rachel. It was seamless. They actually performed the surgery. I didn't need a colostomy bag. And I am so grateful. I wanna take a moment to stop bragging for a second, because I feel like I. I just wanna say that I'm so sorry for people that are going through this. People that do end up with a colostomy bag. It really seriously breaks my. I'm grateful that this whole journey for me, I shrunk the tumor. Holistically. Within two months, I shrunk it just as much as chemo would have through the. Through the mushrooms and dandelion root. I do not want to neglect the importance and significance of dandelion root in my cancer journey. Dandelion root causes complete apoptosis. It stops cancer from spreading.

A (36:37)

What's apoptosis? What's that?

B (36:38)

It means stopping cancer from spreading apoptosis. It stops cancer from spreading. It stops metastasis. That's what dandelion root did for me. So the things that I were taking were dandelion root, turkey tail, along with the myriad of other mushrooms. And Amla was another thing that I was taking. The most potent form of vitamin C. All these things can be bought on Amazon or online somewhere. If you're boycotting Amazon, you can always get it somewhere. And Amla. Those are the four things that I took in addition to my cruciferous diet and occasional organic quinoa and turkey burger. Organic turkey burger without a bun. Of course. That's what I did. And it shrunk it in about three months. And after the surgery, again, I was petrified that I was gonna have these horrendous side effects. You know, soiling on myself while I'm on stage is not an option for this kid. But I've had none of these side effects, and I couldn't be more grateful for the way that things turned out. It was literally just seven months. Seven months, which I'm so grateful for. People go through years.

A (37:52)

Tell me about your doctor's reactions to this. Like, were they like, oh, yeah, I've seen this before with, like, three other people, or were they just, like, stunned Like, I don't know what to say. Like, what were their, what were their reactions?

B (38:04)

My surgeon called me privately when he wasn't in the hospital. He called me from his cell phone and he told me that he has seen this one other time. A patient had like a 5 centimeter tumor and it completely disappeared. And he couldn't explain it. He told me that he would be much more open minded, but he couldn't do it, obviously because he would be the unpopular doctor at the hospital. I get that. You know, he can't just go rogue and do whatever he wants. You know, they have a standard practice, you know, traditional, you know, their standard practice is radiation, chemotherapy and they really can't stray from that. You know. But when he saw the result with me, I will say that even when he was going over the, you know, after the, my post surgery appointment with him, he sat me down and he said, Irene, you're in the 90 percentile and you're not going to get reoccurrence. And then he explained to me why. And then I went to see my oncologist and my oncologist said, this is why it's highly unlikely that you'll ever have recurrence. And she went through the bullets with me there too. So I think I laid down the foundation when I had cancer and so when they performed the surgery, I came out in pretty good shape. And you know, I recently had a very high sensitive cancer blood test. I'm cancer free. Recently had an mri. Cancer free. So. And people say, you know what, don't jinx yourself. But again, I don't believe in that. I really believe that I am cancer free. I don't believe it's, it's coming back. I'm gonna continue maintaining a healthy lifestyle. And anyway, I'm so grateful for you, sweetie, being there for me the whole time. Like I said, I didn't tell a lot of friends and if you hear this and, and you're hurt that I didn't tell, you know that I love you. I just didn't want to impose on other people. I didn't want to have to manage other emotions. And I love, I love my friends and I know they would have been there for me, but I chose just to keep it under my hat, close to the vest. And I, I just threw this in giant pile of, of burden on, on you, Rachel and Steve, because I literally only told you, I told you my sister, my cousin and Steve. And these are, this was my, my support right here, the four of you. That was my support. System. And then I started letting a few people in, but I still haven't come out. This really is my my coming out. Yeah.

A (40:28)

And you've talked about this a little bit on stage. Now you're back doing stage.

B (40:31)

I just did. Yes.

A (40:32)

You've talked about this somewhat on stage.

B (40:34)

Yeah.

A (40:35)

Who knows what I mean?

B (40:37)

I'm the new Fran Drescher.

A (40:39)

Oh.

B (40:40)

I mean, she did her. You better move over, sweetie. That's right. There's a new nanny in town. Bitch. Anyway, when did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together, use polls to settle dinner plans, send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom's 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn more@WhatsApp.com.

A (41:25)

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C (41:26)

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A (43:22)

Now I know, but just for the listeners, you are no longer on that diet. As a matter of fact, once after the surgery you were told you had to avoid certain things because you're not allowed to eat like vegetables stuff. After the surgery you have to switch everything. And now you're kind of back on like a regular person's diet, right? Yes. But do you still do the herbs or like every day?

B (43:42)

Every day. And you know what? It can't hurt you. And that I'm not afraid to say, I am not afraid to be bold enough to say. Turkey tail is extraordinary whether you have cancer or not. It's an immune booster and it fights disease. And I should be the spokesperson for turkey tail because honestly, I so vehemently believe in the power of the mushroom. I mean mushrooms, they're using mushrooms to clean up toxicity and then they're edible. That's how, how much they clean up toxicity. You could they use them to clean up the toxicity. And yet they're still edible by humans because they eradicate toxicity. And turkey tail being among the, the, the front runner of the, of the, of the mushrooms. And I still take it. Absolutely. Dandelion root is just good for your kidney and your liver. If your organs are functioning properly, then you're fighting disease more effectively. So I'm still on all these herbs but I've also made room for margin again which has been very important.

A (44:43)

Sweetie. I forget turkey tail, Margarita and dandelion root. I just slipped it in the middle there. Or how about a turkey tail Marg?

B (44:51)

Oh, I.

A (44:52)

Let's unbet the turkey Tiny. A turkey Tiny. A turkey Rita. Oh man. It's probably counter indicated alcohol is not supposed to be good for you. It's not.

B (45:05)

But guess what? We all need joy.

A (45:07)

But the doctor, the oncologist, she was pretty surprised that it shrunk, right? Or was she like, yeah, she talked about the surgeon, but was the oncologist surprised? Or was she like, like was she like looked at your thing? She was like, you freaking did it, Irene. Or was she like, yeah, yes, this can happen sometimes. Like what was her response?

B (45:24)

She was very surprised, but also very happy. My surgeon Was like a doubting Thomas. He didn't believe the 2.8. He had to have me scoped. A very divisive basing procedure. I feel bad for anybody going through this. My heart goes out to you. I know these, like, horrifying, dehumanizing procedures. Anyway, he scoped it because he didn't believe it. And then he saw it and he said, I can't believe it, Irene. I'll never forget he said that to me. He goes, come here. You're right. It's 2.8. It really did shrink. And then he goes, come, you gotta see this. And he showed me the video that we took when I first came in and the new video, and he said, look, I can't believe it. It really did shrink. That's all I needed to hear from you.

A (46:04)

I'm going back to the first doctor you went to and how I would have responded. The very first doctor that you weren't a fan of. I walked out of there and I was like, oh, yeah, I thought she seemed pretty good, you know? And you were, like, not feeling it. And you didn't like that she. Now, I will say it didn't seem like she really. She did seem. Not in a, like, cartoonish 80s movie way, but she did seem subtly dismissive of your questions about, like, healing thyself. Which I get it. All this to say. I keep feeling the need to be.

B (46:36)

Like, all this is true.

A (46:38)

Irene's story is amazing. And if I had come out of that first appointment, I would have been like, okay, well, I have chemo next week. And I'm like, I would not have even thought to do what you did. So I'm gonna give a freaking hats off and a round of applause to you. You were so driven and you did so much research. And, like, I don't know as I want to as women, too, but we just, like, follow the rules in general. I might be stereotyping here, I guess. I guess a man would follow the rules too, in this.

B (47:11)

I'm sure that men don't. Don't. Aren't subjected with gaslighting as much as women are. That's a fact. That is a fact. Even. Even my doctor acquiesced to that. My oncologist, when I brought up the gaslighting, she goes, yes, yes, it does happen. She knew right away because she's probably faced it from her colleagues that are male. I'm sorry. I'm just saying that this. This does happen. So don't worry about that. That. That statement.

A (47:33)

One other thing is, along the way of us doing woo woo, like, that's why Irene didn't want to do the Pengie and the get arena and, like, all that stuff, because Irene was, like, swearing off all of the dark arts. Penji's not a dark art. Irene was, like green superstition. She didn't want to mess with anything, so she took a Penji break. And she didn't want that reading. When we had the tarot reader on, you just didn't want, like, that's what was behind when Irene was like, I'm just going through some things. Like, that's what that was. That's it.

B (48:05)

I wasn't being difficult listeners who listen.

A (48:08)

To every single episode and are still wondering about that. So wait, I was gonna say, though. Oh. So we kind of debated sharing this. Cause, well, first of all, it's very personal, but Irene was up for sharing it. And then, like, I guess my attitude on sharing this is like, there's like, woo woo, like, I'm gonna cure it with herbs. Like, like, there's, like that, like, very far end of, like, naivete. Right. But then there's also, like, listening to other out of the box solutions, I guess, and, like, where. Where does the line, you know, where do you find the. The good spot in between those places? And I guess I was thinking, you know, this is Irene's specific story. It dealt with a tumor. Not a systemic, sort of more widespread type of cancer. It was like an actual thing in your body and that. It was a colon cancer situation. So, you know, again, we're not doctors. We don't know what this works on or not worked on.

B (49:12)

But I went to one. It went to one lymph node. It did go to one lymph node. So there was the smallest amount.

A (49:19)

But I was thinking, like, oh, my gosh, like, if I had what Irene had, I would sure as hell want to know about this. And so that's what we were thinking. Like, you know, I was sort of such Irene joking at the beginning. It's like, like, if we could save one person from, you know, following this, but then we don't want to, like, kill 10 other people who are just, like, taking matters in their own hands. So we just want to say that we believe in Western medicine, but we also believe in Eastern medicine. I mean, Irene inspired me. Irene inspired me to see everything that's out there. I guess this is sort of. We might call it alternative healing, but someone else might call it the way that you heal. Maybe that's a centering thing to say to Call it alternative, but. So I don't know. Irene, what did you want to say about, like, what made you want to share this?

B (50:13)

I think what you just said is right on point, sweetie. Absolutely everything you just said, I'm echoing that. And I was just so terrified of chemo, Rachel. At the end of the day, I was so terrified of the port chemo. You know, it is, it is toxic. And I just went into like deep fear and just that led me to an alternative route. I recalculated, as the GPS would say, and I found another route. I talked to people that had success. Again, we just wanna convey my story. If it can help somebody, just this is what I would say. These are the takeaways. Don't be afraid to ask your doctor questions. Don't make fear based decisions, even though I did seems a little contradictory, but make informed based decisions. You always have options, you always have choices. And that goes alongside asking your doctor as many questions as you feel fit. Get a second opinion. Because as it turns out, Rachel, that first woman we went to, she wasn't even an oncologist. She was an oncologist on training wheels. She was blanketed under an oncologist. So she was an assistant. And I wanted the real thing, sweetie. Make sure you get somebody who's qualified, who has a lot of experience. She didn't have any, any experience. She had like five years experience. You want somebody who's very experienced. You want to do your homework, not only when it comes to what kind of cancer you have, but also your doctors. Don't be afraid to vet your doctors and thoroughly research what they do, you know, how much experience they have and then, you know, just commit and take care of yourself. Yes.

A (51:53)

By the way, you were seeking out after that first doctor, you were seeking out a doctor that was more open to alternative methods. And you found her after, like, I don't know how you even found her, but you were definitely looking for someone who you read about that was like, can think outside the box. And you know, she's at what, Weill Cornell.

B (52:13)

She's at Weill Cornell. And her thing is that she is not an eastern oncologist. She just listened to me. But she is an outside of the box, not just chemo and radiation. She does a lot of clinical trials.

A (52:25)

She immunotherapy.

B (52:26)

Immunotherapy, which is gonna be the new form of cancer treatment. Immunotherapy. It's up and coming. They're having great success with it. Basically what I did. And my doctor acquiesced to when I told him, I said, I'm doing organic immunotherapy. I built my immune up so much, it occurred's body. That's what they're gonna be doing with immunotherapy. You build your immune, you fight cancer. I did that with the. With mushrooms. I build up my immune. I fought the cancer and that's it. But. But again, everybody has a road. If anybody is going through cancer, has cancer, struggling with cancer. I love you so much. I really do. It's been. I can't even tell you how much love I have for anybody going through this and how women and men that are going through chemotherapy. I mean, I just. I feel like they're so heroic in many ways, too, because I was so afraid of doing chemo, I couldn't step.

A (53:19)

But if you had been told by her, this is your only option, you would have done it.

B (53:24)

If I knew that that was my only option, I would have done it. Yeah, but. But as it. As it turned out, you had time, too. I had time to find out. Well, they told me that I really didn't have time, but I found out through her that I did have time. I got mixed. I got mixed opinions from the first doctor I went to. She said, it's gonna spread. You don't have time. Do it. And then from someone else, they said, listen, you do have time. It's okay. I want you to make, you know, make a decision. This is your health. So, you know, again, you have to know what cards you're dealing with. Okay. Once you know the cards for me, I did have time. Okay, don't listen. I just didn't listen to every little thing that my doctor said to me. I questioned. Always just ask questions. Always ask questions. That's it. Don't be afraid of being annoying. I'm sure I left the office a lot of times and they were like, not the. That annoying twat again. I'm not going to deal with her. I'm sure they were thinking that I would think that about myself. I really would, but. And always have a. That one person and family members that you can count on, like my sister and my cousin who I love. They were there for me. And that one friend that I really threw a lot on. Rachel, I love you. I will never forget you. I love you so much. You were there for me every step of the way. And of course, my husband, who was on the verge of being just left behind. Sweetie. And stepped up, and now we're in love again. Anyway, it's honeymoon period. All over again. So I think cancer saved my marriage. Cancer saved my marriage. That's the bottom line. That's how we're gonna wrap this up. Cancer saved my marriage. It did. It really did.

A (55:00)

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You've probably seen a million ads pop.

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Sure, like that actually works.

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B (56:45)

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A (57:15)

Well, I mean I couldn't have turned out better.

B (57:19)

Yeah.

A (57:19)

Also such a quick I mean from January to basically June and then it was behind you pretty much. I mean I know there's recovery time and all that, but I Mean, never would have thought when I had that phone call in January.

B (57:34)

I'm still. I'm still. You know, I have to get the scans every three months and the blood work every three months. But like I said, both my surgeon and my oncologist told me that it's so they can't give you 100%. He gave me in the high 90s. And she said, this is why it's extremely unlikely that it's gonna come back.

A (57:50)

So. So.

B (57:50)

And that's it. And I feel great.

A (57:53)

I was gonna say one other takeaway.

B (57:54)

Thank you.

A (57:54)

Yes. In a more general. A more general sense is whether it's cancer or, you know, you had colon cancer, whether it's a different kind of cancer or anything. Just the way that you approach taking charge of your own medical destiny is something I wouldn't really think of. It's just a good reminder for all of us. I think we're used to thinking of, you know, well, doctors are the authority. They know more than us. But I don't know, like you. I think you can ask every tiny, little annoying question. I mean, I tend to be too polite in these situations. So I think you're like the Norma Ray of the patient advocacy. Like, so it was really inspiring to see you.

B (58:39)

You give me too much credit, sweetie.

A (58:42)

No, I'm serious. I'm serious.

B (58:44)

I love you. Thank you. Thank you. And I just wanna say that also, I did really have a lot of people praying over me. I was hijacking the prayer groups. I had, like, circles around me. I did. I didn't tell you this, but I did. I had, like, the entire. I go to church, I'd switch churches, and I had. So I just wanna thank everybody for just throwing that out. I'm not saying that, you know, for me, every little bit of everything that I did, I contribute to the success of how it happened for me. But it's not always the case. I just wanna throw that out. It's not always the case. And so I don't want, like Rachel said, somebody to just get out there and think that you can manifest your cancer away. Because, you know, that's the one woo woo thing that I'm not gonna encourage. I encourage a vision board, but we wanna be careful with that. And I just wanna say thank you to. You know, I don't know who I'm saying thank you to. I'm not winning an award. Nothing's happening here.

A (59:40)

Turkey Tail.

B (59:41)

Turkey Tail.

A (59:41)

I'd like to thank Turkey Tail.

B (59:42)

I wanna shout out to Turkey Tail.

A (59:43)

Like, to thank Dandelion greens. And what else?

B (59:46)

What else? I think cabbage. I think in cabbage. Of course, cabbage. Let's not leave out cabbage.

A (59:52)

Cabbage. You were there for me. Cauliflower. I'm never going to forget you and how you stepped up.

B (59:56)

You stepped up.

A (59:57)

This is the awards. This is Christopher's awards. Brussels sprouts. Brussels sprouts in the house. Brussels. I see you back there. Brussels sprouts. You can't hide for me.

B (60:04)

Brussel sprouts.

A (60:05)

You were there for me, baby.

B (60:07)

Thank you. Oh, the Oscar go. Goes to Turkey tail. Turkey tail wins the Oscar.

A (60:13)

We have to end with the cruciferous awards. Red cabbage.

B (60:16)

Where you at? Red cabbage.

A (60:18)

Oh, am I forgetting? Cruciferous. Is there one I'm forgetting?

B (60:22)

And I want to.

A (60:23)

I have to look it up.

B (60:23)

Cabbage. Broccoli.

A (60:25)

Where you at?

B (60:25)

Broccoli. Shout out to broccoli. When I didn't believe in myself. Broccoli.

A (60:31)

You believed in me.

B (60:32)

You believed in me.

A (60:34)

What are the cruciferous vegetables? Okay, let's see. Let's see the looks. Oh, I think we got them all.

C (60:38)

Yeah.

A (60:38)

Oh, we forgot kale. I didn't know. Oh, Kale.

B (60:40)

How could we forget kale?

A (60:41)

Seems odd. Kale, you may have taken a back seat at the time. Oh, bok choy.

B (60:46)

Bok choy.

A (60:48)

Bok choy.

B (60:48)

Kale. I did kale.

A (60:49)

Radishes.

B (60:50)

Radishes.

A (60:52)

Turnips.

B (60:52)

Turnips. I did.

A (60:53)

None of these kohlrabi is kohlrabi in the house. And horseradish.

B (60:58)

And horseradish.

A (60:59)

And there's more, too. There's more that. Wow.

C (61:02)

All right.

A (61:02)

This is.

B (61:03)

It's a big family.

A (61:04)

Those are just the examples. Those are just the front runners.

B (61:06)

Those are the front runners. Right.

A (61:07)

The headliners. If you. The cancer battle team Irene. I know. This is a personal tale.

B (61:17)

Yes.

A (61:18)

Of a personal story.

B (61:19)

Yes, it is.

A (61:20)

And we weren't sure. I asked you if you felt like maybe telling it, because, I mean, it's kind of woo woo, Jason.

B (61:29)

Right.

A (61:29)

But we didn't want to go too woo woo on something as serious as this. But I think it's a good lesson on advocating for yourself. And I'm so happy that you did and that everything worked out. I mean, knock on wood. And at least, you know, you freaking stunned the experts.

B (61:51)

Well. And I just want to say I love you, Rachel. And I really do.

A (61:55)

And I love you.

B (61:56)

And on that note, next up, we'll.

A (61:59)

Be talking about auras. And on that serious note, let's talk about a haunted house. Oh, the door was creaking. And I knew that there was. Old Lady Jenkins was still occupying the perimeter.

C (62:16)

Perimeter.

A (62:17)

Old Lady Jenkins was sitting out on the porch. Okay, well, that's up next week. Some haunted house or other. But, Irene, thank you so much.

B (62:28)

Thank you.

A (62:29)

I'm sure you're gonna get a ton of response on this. I can't imagine that people aren't gonna want to. To know more about this.

B (62:35)

Thank you. Thank you.

A (62:37)

So. But yeah, I'm sure that you're going to get. I mean, we might have to be putting up your sort of regimen somewhere because I'm sure people are going to be wondering.

B (62:45)

Absolutely.

A (62:46)

So we'll. We'll see what comes in from the. The listeners on this. Okay. Irene, we're so glad you're here and that everything worked out. And that's it for this episode.

B (62:58)

That's right. I had cancer, but cancer didn't have me.

A (63:02)

Oh, boy.

B (63:04)

I just want to add this. Okay. I put off my colonoscopy for years.

A (63:08)

Oh, my God. Yes. Okay, we gotta say this. This is the psa.

B (63:11)

This is a psa.

A (63:12)

Okay.

B (63:13)

It really is. I just wanna say that you should not put off your colonoscopy. I did. I put mine off and look what happened to me. You should absolutely go get a colonoscopy. Because so many people are getting colon cancer. It does not have. There's like an erroneous belief that you have to have. It's a genetic thing. It's absolutely not. Younger people are getting colon canc. Affected by it. Please don't put it off. I did. Despite clear signs that something was wrong, I put off my colonoscopy. And when I finally got one guess what? I had a 5 centimeter colon cancer. So make sure that you make that appointment.

A (63:53)

Yes. And they used to say at 50, but now they moved it back to 45.

B (63:58)

I would say even younger. 40. I really would. A lot of people, the average age in the hospital where I was at msk, in the recovery ward, they were all in their late 30s. Yeah. What? Late 30s?

A (64:12)

Wow.

B (64:13)

I was one of the older patients. How dare they? Anyway. Wow.

A (64:17)

Wow. All right. That's a good message. We forgot to say that. Definitely get your colonoscopy. Don't put it off. And now back to haunted houses. Okay.

B (64:27)

No.

C (64:27)

Okay. And you can find me on Instagram @Ray Dratch. That's R A E Dratch.

A (64:38)

And you can find Irene at Irenebremis. That's B R E M I S Bremis. And thanks for listening.

C (64:47)

Thanks for joining me.

A (64:49)

On this journey into the world of Woo Woo.

C (64:51)

Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe.

A (64:53)

Wherever you get your podcast cast.

C (64:56)

Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch is a Q Code production executive produced by David Henning and Steve Wilson produced by Alexa Gabriel Ramirez, edited by Will Tendi.