Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch

Episode: Pam Grossman: The Power of the Witch’s Cackle

Host: Rachel Dratch
Co-Host: Irene Bremis
Guest: Pam Grossman (Author, Witch, Host of Witch Wave podcast)
Date: April 1, 2026

Episode Overview

Rachel Dratch and Irene Bremis welcome their first self-proclaimed "witch" to the Woo Woo podcast: Pam Grossman, an author, podcaster, and ritualist known for her focus on modern witchcraft and creativity. The episode explores the lineage, misconceptions, and empowering aspects of witchcraft, blending humor and sincerity. Pam shares her journey, breaks down what "magic" and witchcraft mean today, reveals rituals she’s performed, and discusses the vital role of play, ritual, and laughter in dispelling negativity—cackling away the patriarchy!

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Pam’s Witchy Background and Arrival in Witchcraft

• Childhood & Early Fascination (04:55–07:11)
  • Grew up in suburban New Jersey in the ’80s during a boom in witchcraft and occult literature.
  • Pam: “I often say that I was hanging out on the low end of the Dewey decimal system. So all the books about, like, Bigfoot, UFOs, witches, dreams, you know what I’m saying? Like, that was my jam.” (05:44)
  • Exposure to pop culture witchcraft in the '90s, but found her practice deepened through personal curiosity and ancestral connection.
• Transition from Private Interest to Public Practice
  • Academic background in anthropology, religious studies, art history, and creative writing at NYU.
  • Began practicing privately, eventually writing and teaching full-time after leaving a corporate job at Getty Images.
  • Mentorship by a green witch, Robin Rose Bennett, helped her confidently identify as a witch.

2. Witchcraft, Magic, and Misconceptions

• Stigma and Cultural Fears (13:58–19:22)
  • Magic is often “trivialized or sensationalized”—either dismissed as silly anti-scientific nonsense or demonized as dangerous/heretical.
  • “The project of making people feel that magic is foolish or silly is actually very capitalist. It’s very colonialist, and it’s very patriarchal.” (14:40)
  • Witchcraft’s suppression is deeply connected to controlling women's power, intuition, and the non-patriarchal—a “systemic misogyny.”
  • Pam’s perspective: Witchcraft can supplement rather than replace other spiritual paths (e.g., she identifies as both pagan/witch and “flexi Jew”).

3. Rituals and Practical Magic

• Studio 54 Blessing Ritual (23:14–29:01)

  • Pam recounts a ritual she led for the cast and crew of Rocky Horror on Broadway at Studio 54.
  • Elements included:
    • Casting a magic circle (seven-direction style, honoring elements, underworld, celestials, center).
    • Acknowledging Studio 54’s “good ghosts”; banishing negative energies.
    • Inviting both ancestral and spiritual guides.
    • Banishing “demons” of self-doubt and perfectionism.
    • Blessing stones with intentions—infusing words into objects.
    • Invoking Dionysus for theatrical ecstasy.
  • Pam: “You’re really setting sacred space, and you’re forming kind of an energetic container of safety. You’re keeping negative energy out, and then you’re inviting in really concentrated, potent power.” (25:14)
  • Rachel: “It’s not that different from, you know, any other form of prayer or something... almost just like taking the breath to pause.” (25:31)

• Embodiment and Action in Magic (30:28–33:16)

  • Physical actions (e.g., placing stones, lighting candles) help anchor intention: “Witchcraft is an embodied practice.” (31:01)
  • Using physical rituals creates a “somatic element,” making the experience memorable and impactful.

4. Ethics & Personal Experience in Witchcraft

• Early Hexes and Learning Responsibility (33:39–34:51)

  • Pam shares a childhood story about casting an ill-intentioned spell (“a hex”) on a school bully, resulting in “boils” from sun blisters.
  • “That’s when I decided I’m not gonna fuck with this negative, dark, hexing magic ever again.” (35:03)
  • Emphasizes never to perform non-consensual magic—intention and care matter.

• Manifestation Stories and ‘Magic Fine Print’ (39:57–43:25)

  • Pam manifested her ideal publisher for her book Magic Maker after a ritual—the deal arrived as both a perfect fit and the highest offer.
  • Recommends the “this or something better” caveat to avoid manifesting unwanted specifics.

5. The Sacredness of Play, Laughter, & Comedy

• Play as Magic, Del Close, and Improv (50:30–56:19)
  • Highlights the importance of “reverent irreverence”—approaching rituals and life “with a lot of sincerity...and also try not to take any of it too seriously because it’s all a mystery and we don’t know what the fuck is going on.” (49:29)
  • Del Close (comedy improv legend) infused rituals into improv—group exercises are “like a group spell” (55:25).
  • Laughter is a warding spell: “...the best way to scare a ghost is to laugh and flash it...I’m not taking you seriously, honey. I’m just gonna show you my titties and I’m gonna laugh you away.” (53:39)
  • Comedy acts as “a collective exorcism,” light banishes darkness.

6. Magic in Everyday Life & Accessibility

• Everyday Spells and Objects (56:54–57:15)

  • Birthday candle wishes, lucky charms, tossing pennies, writing names on trees—“That’s magic. Right? ...Magic is our birthright. It’s part of how we interact with the world.” (56:54)
  • Encouragement for everyone to tap into ritual and intention, regardless of tradition or background.

• Pam’s Witchy Life and Services (62:32–64:54)

  • Writes, podcasts (Witch Wave), teaches workshops, and performs custom rituals (e.g., for Jinkx Monsoon at Carnegie Hall).
  • Open and inclusive approach—believes public rituals and inclusive spirituality are needed for collective empowerment.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Magic is often either trivialized or sensationalized.” – Pam (13:59)
• “The project of making people feel that magic is foolish or silly is actually very capitalist. It’s colonialist, and it’s very patriarchal.” – Pam (14:40)
• “Witchcraft is an embodied practice.” – Pam (31:01)
• “Comedy is absolutely magic.” – Pam (54:20)
• “The best way to scare a ghost is to laugh and flash it.” – Pam (53:39)
• “Magic is our birthright.” – Pam (56:54)
• “Reverent irreverence…that is how I try to live my life.” – Pam (49:29)
• “Walk in the direction of that which enlivens us, excites us, and makes us feel joyful and playful...That is sacred.” – Pam (48:35)
• “It’s an exorcism. A collective exorcism is what [comedy] is.” – Irene (53:28)
• “Your vibes are your body telling you something.” – Rachel (46:41)

Timestamps of Key Segments

• Pam's early interests & upbringing: 04:55–07:11
• Magic as stigmatized, trivialized, sensationalized: 13:58–19:22
• Studio 54 ritual & elements of witchcraft: 23:14–29:01
• Somatics and embodiment in ritual: 30:28–33:16
• Pam’s first spell experiences (hexing story): 33:39–35:03
• Manifesting example (Penguin Life deal): 39:57–43:25
• Philosophy on play, ritual, Del Close and improv: 50:30–56:19
• Everyday magic & accessibility: 56:54–57:15
• Pam’s modern witchy life and services: 62:32–64:54

Tone & Style

• Warm, humorous, irreverent: Blends deep topics with plenty of comedic asides and playful banter.
• Empowering & inclusive: Uplifts the sacredness of individuality, play, femininity, and everyday magic.
• Practical and accessible: Encourages listeners to approach ritual in personal, grounded ways—inviting all to try a little “woo woo.”

Conclusion

This episode brings witchcraft out of the shadows and into the realm of creative, embodied, joyful practice. Pam Grossman deconstructs the “woo woo” stereotypes, champions the sacred power of laughter and play, and shows how honoring intuition and ritual can help us cackle the patriarchy away. Whether you’re a skeptic, a seeker, or somewhere in between, Pam, Rachel, and Irene create a space where magic feels like everyone’s birthright—and a good cackle makes the world lighter.

Learn more:

• Pam Grossman’s books: Magic Maker, Waking the Witch
• Witch Wave podcast
• Rachel Dratch: @raedratch
• Irene Bremis: @irenebremis