Rachel Christ-Doane: Salem Witch Panic - Pt I

Summary

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Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch

Episode: Rachel Christ-Doane: Salem Witch Panic - Pt I

Date: November 5, 2025
Guest: Rachel Christ-Doane (Director of Education, Salem Witch Museum)
On Location: Salem, Massachusetts

Episode Overview

Comedian Rachel Dratch and co-host Irene Bremis kick off a two-part deep-dive into the true history behind the Salem Witch Trials, joined by expert historian Rachel Christ-Doane. They move beyond pop culture myths to unravel the origins, triggers, personal stories, and modern connections of the infamous 1692 panic. While humor and asides pepper the intense discussion, this episode is a detailed, accessible primer on the human dynamics—fear, scapegoating, and social tensions—that fueled one of America’s darkest chapters.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Introduction & Guest Background

• Rachel Christ-Doane’s Path (01:39–03:13)
  • Christ-Doane shares her journey: a women's history major, she “accidentally” landed at the Salem Witch Museum as a college sophomore and became “obsessed” with witch trial history, ultimately writing her honors thesis and earning a Master's on the subject.
  • “I didn't know anything about the Salem Witch trials... which is ironic because I'm from Andover, which had more people accused of witchcraft during the Salem witch trials than Salem.” (02:09 – Christ-Doane)

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Witchcraft in History: Scapegoating & Human Psychology

• Origins of Witch Beliefs (04:19–06:50)
  • The concept of witchcraft evolved alongside societal needs to blame outsiders in times of crisis. Christ-Doane draws parallels with scapegoating across different eras and marginalized groups.
  • “To scapegoat someone… is a very human thing to do. Right. It happens over and over again.” (04:34 – Christ-Doane)

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The European Witch Trials and Salem's Uniqueness

• Witch as Social Outsider (06:50–10:16)
  • The archetype of witches as “enemies hiding in plain sight” emerges in 15th-century Europe, later mapped onto vulnerable individuals in Puritan New England.
  • Not only women: While witchcraft was gender-related, it wasn’t gender-specific. Men were also accused, especially if they challenged the hysteria.
  • “Witchcraft [was] a gender related crime, not a gender specific crime.” (08:28 – Christ-Doane)

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Societal Context: Why Did the Panic Happen?

• "Perfect Storm" in Massachusetts (15:18–17:33)
  • Leading up to 1692, Massachusetts was rocked by: loss of its charter (loss of political autonomy), religious turmoil, wars with Native peoples, economic inflation, epidemic disease, and even climate disruptions (the “Little Ice Age”).
  • “A lot is going wrong all at the same time. … When your life is getting worse, when there's anxiety in the air, that's when people look for scapegoats.” (15:49 – Christ-Doane)

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The Trigger: Illness and Accusation

• Case Zero: The ‘Afflicted Girls’ (17:33–22:15)
  • In early 1692, two young girls in the minister’s household begin exhibiting seizures and odd animal-like behaviors, echoing a similar Boston case from 1688. This is immediately interpreted through the lens of witchcraft.
  • The girls were never accused of witchcraft—instead, adults asked them: “Who hurt you?”
  • “They're showing these bizarre symptoms. But, no, they're not thought to be witches. They're the ones being hurt by witchcraft.” (22:15 – Christ-Doane)
  • The first named suspects: Sarah Good (a destitute, outspoken woman), Sarah Osborne (sick, scandalized for remarrying an indentured servant), and Tituba (an enslaved woman of color and ultimate scapegoat).

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Tituba’s Pivotal Confession

• How Panic Spread (22:15–26:52)
  • Under pressure and abuse, Tituba confesses and claims there are more witches “in hiding.” This catalyzes mass suspicion and arrests, as authorities now believe in a hidden conspiracy.
  • “She says, you know what? Sure, I am a witch... And there are other witches hiding in the community as well. And that actually turns out to be kind of a smart thing on her part. … She had no way of knowing this, but she lives throughout the witch trials and is released.” (22:54–23:22 – Christ-Doane)

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Real Stories: The Fates of the Accused

• Sarah and Dorothy Good (29:36–34:08)
  • Sarah Good’s biography is detailed—her downward spiral into poverty, her infant and four-year-old daughter Dorothy also swept up. Dorothy, after nearly eight months in jail, is permanently traumatized.
  • “Dorothy's four years old at the time of her accusation. She ends up going to prison with her mother and is in prison for like eight months. And by the time she's released, she's so traumatized by what happened that she's never able to recover herself. … She becomes a ward of the poverty relief system.” (30:51–31:41 – Christ-Doane)

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Debunking "Land Grab" Myths

• Was Accusation Motivated by Greed? (33:48–37:40)
  • Rachel debunks popular theories that accusers sought the land of the accused, explaining that while property was seized by the state after convictions, accusers themselves didn’t benefit. Land disputes fed into personal grudges, but were not the direct motive.
  • “The accusers didn't get anything out of it. They could not take the property of the person they accused.” (36:15 – Christ-Doane)

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Timeline: Accusations Escalate

• How the Panic Spread (40:39–44:44)
  • From the original three, the circle widens to more “afflicted” girls, and then to “usual suspects” (outspoken women, outsiders), before engulfing pillars of the community like elderly, respected Rebecca Nurse.
  • “Mouthy” women and social outcasts were especially vulnerable, but as the panic escalated, even friends and model citizens like Nurse were accused, often because of decades-old family grudges.

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Executions: Process and Public Response

• Emergency Court & Spectral Evidence (47:32–53:17)

  • Once a new colonial charter was in place, Governor Phips forms an emergency court (“Oyer and Terminer”) that admits “spectral evidence”—visions and dreams—as proof. This is unprecedented and speeds up convictions.
  • The first person tried and executed: Bridget Bishop, known for her independent and quarrelsome nature.
  • Notable moment: “Bridget Bishop… the attorney general picks her intentionally because she has evidence that's beyond spectral evidence… They convict her, they execute her in June.” (51:30 – Christ-Doane)

• Notable Victims:

  • Rebecca Nurse: Elderly, upstanding, initially acquitted but retried after public outcry, then executed.
  • Mary Eastey (Nurse’s sister): Wrote moving petitions from jail. Her words plead, “I want you to consider sparing other innocent lives.” (paraphrased, 54:13)
  • George Burroughs: Former minister, forcefully brought from Maine, caused the crowd to doubt the justice of the executions when he perfectly recited the Lord’s Prayer at the gallows (57:23).

• Public Executions and Shifting Sentiment (55:17–58:42)

  • Initially, the public accepted hangings as moral lessons. As respected figures died, crowd sentiment shifted toward doubt and discomfort.
  • “When Bridget Bishop is executed, the tone is more like, yeah, she's a witch… but as the summer goes on… more and more people in the crowd are like, this is not okay. This is a corruption of justice.” (56:32 – 57:21 – Christ-Doane)
  • The largest hanging occurred on the final execution day: 8 people, including Mary Eastey.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Scapegoating and History Repeating:
  “The kind of disturbing part about being an early modern historian right now… a lot of rhetoric… is like, copied and pasted from the witch trials period. Same stories, same way of delivering them. It's just 300 years later.” (10:31 – Christ-Doane)

• On Witchcraft Accusations and Outspoken Women:
  “Who's the most likely to push social boundaries? Often it's women, poor women, women who are beggars, maybe seen as drains on society… Who were mouthy, outspoken…” (08:28 – Christ-Doane)

• On the Spread of Hysteria:
  “They bring them (the accused) in… Sarah Good and Sarah Osborne both say, I am not a witch… Tituba, however… pretty quickly starts following their leading questions… and that actually turns out to be kind of a smart thing on her part. She had no way of knowing this, but she lives throughout the witch trials…” (22:19–23:22 – Christ-Doane)

• On Public Hangings and Doubt:
  “…he, as he's standing literally at the foot of the gallows, recites the Lord's Prayer perfectly without error. And the crowd's looking at each other like he wasn't supposed to be able to do that.” (57:21 – Christ-Doane, re: George Burroughs)

• Contemporary Relevance:
  “It's really easy for us looking now to be like, how could they do this?... Well, how could we do what we're doing now?... It's the same old cycle, just a different century.” (44:55 – Christ-Doane)

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Timeline & Key Segments

• 01:39–03:13 — Rachel Christ-Doane’s background
• 04:19–06:50 — Witch belief origins & scapegoating
• 06:50–10:16 — Gender and the “outsider”
• 15:18–17:33 — Political/social context leading up to 1692
• 17:33–22:15 — The “afflicted” girls and start of accusations
• 22:15–26:52 — Tituba’s confession and mass hysteria
• 29:36–34:08 — The tragedy of Sarah & Dorothy Good
• 33:48–37:40 — Debunking the “land grab” myth
• 40:39–44:44 — Cascade of accusations, including Rebecca Nurse
• 47:32–53:17 — Emergency court, spectral evidence, first executions
• 55:17–58:42 — Public hangings, shift in public opinion
• 53:21–54:13 — Mary Eastey’s moving petition
• 58:39–59:01 — Preview for next episode (myths, moldy wheat, modern witch narrative)

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Memorable Moments

• Dorothy Good’s Small Chains:
  Christ-Doane discusses the legend of Dorothy being chained at age four—possibly the kernel of truth, but overblown by pop history. (32:38)
• Audience Reactions to Executions
  George Burroughs' articulate prayer on the scaffold sows widespread doubt. Cotton Mather calms the crowd, but a turning point has been reached. (57:23)
• Rebecca Nurse’s Defense:
  Her initial acquittal and then retrial under public pressure illustrates how mass fear steamrolled judicial process. (53:17)

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Tone and Style

The conversation is equal parts accessible, humorous, and intellectually rigorous, deftly balancing the darkness of the subject with comedic asides and relatable modern analogies. Irene and Rachel’s joking about being “mouthy broads” and their running commentary—“I’m coming out against the Salem witch trial!” (44:15) or “You would not have fared well in 1692” (42:02)—help make the material lively without detracting from its gravity.

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Next Episode Preview

The discussion was so rich that it spilled into a Part II. Upcoming topics will include:

• Myths about witch trials (e.g., "swim or sink" tests, burning)
• Alternative (and debunked) explanations for hysteria (moldy wheat/ergot)
• The changing depiction of witches in pop culture and feminism

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Recommended Reading (teased by the guest)

Rachel Christ-Doane’s forthcoming book on Dorothy Good and survivor trauma, plus other reading recommendations—likely to be discussed in Part II.

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For Listeners New to the Topic

This episode covers:

• A clear, chronological account of how hysteria developed and spread
• The deeply personal impact on women, children, and community leaders
• The complex human psychology driving the witch hunts, and how these dynamics repeat in modern society

If you want to understand how scapegoating, mass panic, and miscarriage of justice come together—and why these stories echo today—this episode is an engaging and essential listen.

Transcript

[Rachel Christ Doan]

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[Rachel Dratch]

Welcome to Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch, the podcast that explores the unexplained with humor and curiosity. Hello, and welcome to Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch, here with Irene Bremes on location in Salem, Massachusetts. Hi, Irene.

[Irene Bremes]

Hello, sweetie. So exciting.

[Rachel Dratch]

We're back in our home state, but not our hometown because we are in Salem, Massachusetts, and we are so happy to be graced with the presence of Rachel Christ Doan, who is the director of education at the Salem Witch Museum. Hi, Rachel. Hi.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Thanks for having me.

[Irene Bremes]

Hey, Rachel.

[Rachel Dratch]

Thanks for joining us. So Irene and I just did a quickie little walkthrough of the museum, and there's so many topics that we quickly covered that I was like, save it for when we sit down. So now we're seated and. And we're going to hear everything there is to. Well, not everything we're going to. As we've learned, there's so much we're going to learn, a fraction of all the fascinating information there is to know. So, Rach, I'm going to call you Rach.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

From one Rachel to another, we can.

[Rachel Dratch]

And you're from a nearby Massachusetts town as well. Yeah. So how did just a little way of background, like, how did you get involved in this museum? Were you always into history or did you gravitate toward the witch thing? Or like, which. Which came first?

[Rachel Christ Doan]

So I actually, like many people in Salem, came here completely by accident. I was just an undergraduate student who was a history major, and I was interested in women's history. And I was like, how on earth am I going to feed myself as a women's history major? So I was kind of just looking for a job in a museum, and I applied to literally dozens of museums in Massachusetts. And I was like, you know, just get experience. See if I even like being in a museum, if that's a path to go down. So I applied everywhere that would take me in the Salem Witch Museum, had a paying job as opposed to an unpaid internship. And I didn't know anything about the Salem Witch trials. Literally, I didn't know anything, which is ironic because I'm from Andover, which had more people accused of witchcraft during the Salem witch trials than Salem didn't know that grew up my whole life. Andover had no idea. When I first started working here, I was a sophomore in college, and I just got obsessed, and I ended up finishing. I wrote a very intense honors thesis about women in witch trials, and that just started me down the road. And when I graduated, I was fortunate to be in the right place at the right time, where a job was opening in the education department here, and the rest is history. And I ended up getting a master's degree. And now I'm obsessed.

[Rachel Dratch]

And now I know way too much.

[Irene Bremes]

You know what I find that's crazy. I find it so absurd that you're a women's history major and you didn't know anything about the Salem witch trials.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Yeah, I remember really clearly being in, like, a general women's history class. And I had just started at the Salem Witch Museum, and my professor mentioned something about the Salem witch trails, and I, like, very excitedly walked up her, and I was like, I know something about the Salem witch trials, you know, and. Which is so funny now. I think what I actually said to her is, the first three people accused of witchcraft are a woman named Sarah Good Sarah Osborne Attachebet. And I was like, yeah, there were two Sarahs. And, you know, just something like, very, very vague. Yeah. But the more you dig, the more you realize this is such a complex, fascinating story that has so many connections to the modern day.

[Rachel Dratch]

And, well, we just took a little, like I said, a little brief spin through the museum, and there are so many topics that this touches on that it's hard to even think of where to start, but maybe start at the beginning of how the whole saga unfolded. Yeah.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

So, I mean, if we're going to talk at, like, the very beginning of witch trials. Right. So witch trials is a really complicated story because there's a lot that goes into the belief of witchcraft. One of the kind of most important things is scapegoating, like we talked about while we were walking through the museum. So to scapegoat someone. Right. To project fear on a group or a person and to, you know, accuse them of a crime they obviously didn't commit. That's a very human thing to do. Right. It happens over and over again. And. And if you look to, like, specifically European history, we see very similar stories of scapegoating over and over again targeting different people. So, for example, in the early days of Christianity, Christians were said to write, kill infants and commit blood libel and, you know, commit incest and all these terrible things. Then you take those exact same stories and repeat them about Jewish people throughout the early modern period, same thing. They can worship the devil and commit heinous acts of magic, and they kill children and drink their blood. You know, and those same stories are repeated again and again, and they're always to demonize someone who's perceived as the outsider in that moment, usually when something bad is happening or when tensions are running high. So those same stories get repurposed and said about witches when the early modern period starts, which is about the 15th century, 1400s. So there's been this, like, ongoing conversation in Europe up to that point about the powers of the devil, because that's a very long history in and of itself. The devil does not start as the figure we know today, you know, with the horns and the tail. You know, there's a very complicated conversation about how much power the devil has, what he can actually do with that power. And that all kind of leads up to. We're getting into the late medieval period, early modern period, where they're starting to say, actually the devil can make pacts with human beings and they can sell their souls to him and he can give them supernatural powers. So these things kind of clash together. This belief that humans can join the devil's earthly forces, these old stories about, you know, groups of outsiders, all of it clashes together in about the early 1400s. And now you have this new group that are called, like, literally, an enemy, hiding in plain sight. They can look like anyone, be anyone, but they're people who have sold their souls to the devil and in return, gain supernatural powers that they'll use to hurt other people. And that's what a witch is. That's the very beginning of how witches come to be in the European mind.

[Rachel Dratch]

And then what about in Salem? I mean, I've. You know, we've seen the Crucible, and you hear about, oh, a few girls started, you know, writhing around, and then it took off from there. Is that the actual historical version of it? It started with these girls, just like in the play of the Crucible, the origin.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

So not quite in the same way as the Crucible. The Crucible is a wonderful interpretation in terms of, like, the vibe of witch trials. You know, Arthur Miller really gets the themes of what's going on, right? But his version of, like, the girls were practicing forbidden magic in the woods, and there's, like, a forbidden love story between Abigail, William, John Proctor. That part isn't real. But the part of there are two young girls who become sick. No one's sure what the illness is. It gets misdiagnosed as Witchcraft. And that triggers the Salem witch trials. That is true. And that's very common. So throughout the witch trials period, oftentimes it's an unexplainable misfortune. A child gets sick, your cow suddenly dies, your crops fail, you know, something catches fire. You know, things that you can't explain that are terrible. That's when you would start to say, hmm, maybe this was the work of a witch. And who do I know around me who's most likely to have sold their soul to the devil? And that's when fingers start to get pointed. So Salem at the very beginning, is operating in a very usual way for witch trials. As it goes on, it becomes unusual in many ways. But at the very beginning, it's following a very well worn pattern.

[Rachel Dratch]

Wow.

[Irene Bremes]

It sounds like, first of all, it's a great way of controlling women because women were always the victims and they were always accused, you know, so there's something to be said about that, right?

[Rachel Christ Doan]

It was, well, so yes and no. So men were accused of witchcraft as well, which is an important part of the conversation. So there's one historian who calls witchcraft a gender related crime, not a gender specific crime. So during the Salem witch trials, five men are accused of, are executed for the crime of witchcraft, and more are accused as well. But, you know, the big asterisk is the people who are most vulnerable to witchcraft accusations were people who didn't fit in. So people who, again, make you feel a little uncomfortable, who are social outsiders in some way. So who's the most likely to, you know, push social boundaries? Often it's women, poor women, women who are beggars, maybe seen as, like, drains on society. That's, you know, literally the perception. Who were mouthy, outspoken, you know, would publicly fight with their husbands, with their neighbors. People who are widowed, who are living alone, you know, without a man in the household, makes people uncomfortable, you know, or who had done something scandalous like had a child outside of marriage, married one of their servants. You know, those are the things that might attract a witchcraft suspicion. And men get accused of witchcraft, too. But oftentimes, like in the Salem witch trials, for example, often it's because they're speaking out about what's happening. They're saying that this isn't right. Yeah, they're defending the or they're being openly skeptical. So there were other things. And there were witch trials that had more men accused of witchcraft than women. There's a famous one in Iceland that targets vast majority men. So it did happen, but it's very unusual. So at its core, witchcraft accusations, really, they impact women. They impact women at a very high rate. And that's why our stereotype of witch today is still a woman, because so many women were accused of witchcraft throughout that period.

[Irene Bremes]

And, of course, it speaks to what's happening today, too. You know, anybody who's vulnerable or, you know, with the whole. You know, what's happening with ice and with immigrants, you know, anybody who's an outsider or alienated, like, somehow marginalized, it seems like if you're vulnerable, this is what's happening.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Yeah. The kind of disturbing part about being an early modern historian right now is. And in past years is there's a lot of rhetoric that you could. It's, like, copied and pasted from the witch trials period. Same stories, same way of delivering them. It's just 300 years later, you know.

[Rachel Dratch]

When you said, like, oh, things aren't going well for me, so this must be someone else's fault. I mean, that's happening right now, but we can save that to the end.

[Irene Bremes]

But you know what? This also. You're absolutely right, Rachel. And you know what? This reminds me of the Purge, too. Have you ever seen the Purge? If you have some sort of beef with someone, this would be a perfect way to out them, scapegoat them, them, and then kind of like, deliberately hurt them.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Yeah. And that's something that you really see in the Salem witch trials. And the kind of million dollar question is, how is this implicit or explicit? Right. Like, are people intentionally being like, I don't like this person? We've had a fight about, you know, whatever, land, money, whatever, for 10 years, or, you know, we fought about your hog coming into my fence and destroying my crops five years ago, and now I'm gonna accuse you of witchcraft. Is it because they're in their own mind saying, I'm doing this because I remember that, or is it that I already don't like you, I already don't trust you? I'm not gonna point my finger at my neighbor who I love or the community leader I really respect. I'm gonna point my finger at the people I already feel weird about. I have an off sense about, you know, that's what's driving the majority of the witch trials. I always say that if you like gossip, become a historian, especially a witchcraft historian, because the accusations that are lodged during this time are just decades of gossip against people for various things. You know.

[Rachel Dratch]

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[Rachel Dratch]

Wait, can I get back to the beginning of when the whole seed like took off in actual Salem? So you said the two girls were. Will you say that again? And then how did that blow up into more people? More people. More people in the actual Salem of it all.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Yeah. So like we talked about, right? Fear is a big trigger, you know, is a big condition that has to be present for witch trials. And there's a lot going wrong in Massachusetts all at the same time leading up to Salem. And that's an important part of the story that actually often gets skipped over because it's kind of boring. Right. It's like the politics and the economic situation and the wars that are being fought. But this is really important because it's, it's the same thing we feel today, right? When your life is getting worse, when there's anxiety in the air, that's when people look for scapegoats. So a lot is going wrong all at the same time. Sorry.

[Rachel Dratch]

This is 1692.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

So the Salem witch trials start in 1692, and in the years leading up to it, it's like one thing after another. So the colony loses its charter in 1684, which basically means the king is slapping Massachusetts on the wrist and saying, you guys have gotten way too independent. I'm not comfortable with it. The charter is like the document that outlines your laws, your very structure as a colony. And Massachusetts have been getting away with a charter that was Puritan dominated for years, which is odd because England is not a Puritan dominated country. There's moments when the Puritans take, you know, hold of things, but it's dominated by the Church of England. So the fact that the Massachusetts based settlers had been able to write into their laws, you have to be Puritan to hold political office, to vote. Everybody has to attend Puritan religious services or you get fined. That's actually very strange. And the king is finally, by the 1680s, like, enough, enough of this and takes back the document. So there are these years of legal limbo where the settlers don't know, will they be able to elect their officials, do they steal their own land? And most importantly, will they still be a Puritan dominated colony, which is what they've been working for for centuries. And then on top of all that, you've got huge wars going on with the natives and their French allies. You have outbreaks of smallpox, you have something called the little Ice Age going on. So super hot summers Very cold winters. There's inflation. It's just. It's a mess. So by the time we get to 1692, all of this has just been, like, boiling for years. And you get these first two girls who. They look at them and they say, it looks like this is the work of a witch. The devil is behind this.

[Rachel Dratch]

So was there, like, hysterical, you know, writhing and dramatics, or was it someone. Someone's kid was sick?

[Rachel Christ Doan]

No. So it's. It's actually very interesting when we look at the way that they're describing the illness. In some ways, it's almost like seizure behavior. You know, they're writhing around the ground, they're screaming, they're clutching their heads, they're making, like, animal noises. They're hiding under furniture. But then they're also doing things like Abigail Williams, who's one of the first girls who becomes sick. There's a weird document that says she's running around the room with her arms going swish, swish, like pretending to fly. So it's very bizarre behavior, and not.

[Rachel Dratch]

Like any regular child would ever do that. Yeah, I know.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Right?

[Rachel Dratch]

Yeah. Okay.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

But for a child of this time, you're not supposed to behave like that. Right. You know, and the. The adults are just like, what is going on?

[Irene Bremes]

Was this, like, out of the norm behavior for these children, or was this, like. Were these children behaving like that all the time?

[Rachel Christ Doan]

No, very unusual. Especially they're both girls. You know, they're young girls you're not supposed to be, and they're the minister's family, so his daughter and his niece. So again, you and I, it's very out of ordinary. Out of the ordinary for them. But again, the little caveat is, a couple years before, there had been a bewitchment case in Boston in 1688 which mimics the Salem witch trials. Like these early events really closely, where a group of kids become sick in a family. It's after a confrontation with an Irish Catholic widow who is about as much of a social outsider as you can be. Right. Irish Catholic, a widow in Puritan America. And she was known to be, you know, kind of like not a pleasant woman. You know, the descriptions of her. So there's a fight between this woman and the family. The kids suddenly get sick, and the descriptions of them mirror the descriptions of those first two kids in 1692. Like, to a T, same behavior. Now, that case in Boston results in an execution. It's actually the first execution for witchcraft in Massachusetts in 30 years, because it was very hard to convict Someone for witchcraft in Massachusetts Bay Colony. So it's a big deal. And they write a really famous pamphlet about it that, for lack of a better term, goes viral. It's everywhere. So it's interesting that they're mirroring the same behavior as those kids. So there's a lot of, you know, we can talk forever about what's going on with these kids. It could be that they were familiar with that bewitchment case, and they're mirroring the behavior of those earlier kids for attention. That's possible. I mean, there are other theories about them actually being ill, but you can't discount. It's just. It's such a close parallel that it's worth. It's worth thinking about, you know, also.

[Irene Bremes]

Like, you know, we always say that curses are, you know, put on by, like, witches, that these. Like, it's an evil thing to put a curse. But even in the Bible, like, God used to curse people all the time. Right. So this curse, the origin story of a curse, came from God himself.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is, like. It's not quite the same thing as a curse. Like, witches are, again, like, they're human beings who have been imbued with these magical powers that they're gonna use to cause all kinds of, like, mischief, you know, and that's like the devil's MO, you know, is literally is, you know, using these kind of human conduits to cause, you know, problems in people's lives. Yeah. And especially the stakes are thought to be really high in Massachusetts because the settlers had all these lofty goals for themselves. They were gonna be a city on a hill is their verbiage at the beginning. Right. Which means they're gonna do Christianity, you know, quote unquote correctly. They're gonna follow all the rules that aren't being followed anywhere else, because they're puritans, and they kind of have this vision of themselves, and they're gonna set up this godly colony, and they'll be rewarded for their efforts. So by the end of the 17th century, when none of that is coming to fruition, and they've also lost the charter, and it looks like the great Puritan experiment's coming to an end. It's like everything's crashing, and there's a belief that this could be the devil has arrived, and he's finally waging war on these godly colonists. So to go back to your question, like, when the girls become sick and they're doing all this strange behavior, and it's mimicking behavior that they know has recently shown up in a fatal witch tr. The adults around them, it's easy for them to be like, yep, this is witchcraft, and it's the devil who is come to wage war on us at long last. This is it. This is the beginning of the great spiritual war we've been talking about for decades at this point. So.

[Rachel Dratch]

And so how did it go from that particular little family, and how did that spread out? Like, who. Who was accused, if anyone, of this first thing? Or, like, I don't even know this. Were the girls themselves thought to be witches or was, like, someone put a curse on them? Yeah.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

So this is. It's a hard thing to kind of wrap our minds around because they're showing these bizarre symptoms. But, no, they're not thought to be witches. They're the ones being hurt by witchcraft. So what happens is the adults start to say to them, you are hurt by witches. Who are they? Who are the witches who hurt you? And they come up with three names. So the names are, like, the classic example of a witch, you know, at this time. So what we talked about earlier, the people most vulnerable to accusations. So we've got Sarah Good, who's a beggar woman, who is known to go house to house, you know, asking for charity. But then if she didn't get what she felt she deserved or she felt like she was being snubbed, she would just openly mutter at people, complain at them, you know, again, things women are not supposed to do at this time. And then Sarah Osborne is this woman who's been sick for years, so she hasn't been to church in a while. And also, she had scandalized the community because she had been widowed and married an indentured. Her indentured servant. So scandal. And then Tituba, who's an enslaved woman who's living in the home with the first sick girls. We don't actually know where Tituba is from, you know, with, like, you know, certainty. But she's a woman of color, right? She's definitely a woman of color, which makes her as much of a social outsider as you can be at this time. So it's very easy for people to say, oh, yeah, she's definitely a witch. So they point these fingers at these three women, and everyone's like, obviously, these are the witches, you know, so they bring them in, question them, because the charter has not yet been restored, which, again, like I always say, this is, like, the boring part of the story, but it's so important. They're in this legal limbo without a Charter. They can't have a full scale criminal trial without a charter in place. They've actually gotten word in. I think it's like, it's early 1692, February, March, where they're like, stop having trials because the charter's on its way. So you have to wait until the charter, like, lands on the ground in the colony. But what they can do is just question these women and see if it's worth holding them in jail for a trial. So they bring them in. Sarah Good and Sarah Osborne both say, I am not a witch. I don't know what you're talking about. You've got the wrong person. Tituba, however, is brought in, initially maintains her innocence, but pretty quickly starts following their leading questions. She basically tells them what they want to hear. She says, you know what? Sure, I am a witch. I've been a witch for this long. And there are other witches hiding in the community as well. And that actually turns out to be kind of a smart thing on her part. She had no way of knowing this, but she lives throughout the witch trials and is released, you know, back into a life of enslavement. But she's released the following year because they need her evidence now. So she's kept alive in jail. But basically she gives them evidence of the thing that they have been panicking about for decades, that there's this conspiracy of witches hiding in plain sight, and now they have to find them. And that triggers years of fear. And that's why the Salem witch trials get rolling in the way that they do.

[Irene Bremes]

She was like an informant, sort of, in a sense.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Yeah. And she. So the way that magistrates handled cases like this at this time is they presumed you were guilty until proven innocent. So the reverse of the way, theoretically, our courts work today. So they're asking her questions, assuming she's a witch, and they're really pushing her. And she probably knew, Right. She's an enslaved woman. Her master is not happy with her at this point, and he's made that very clear. There's actually that book we saw in the second exhibit, More Wonders of the Invisible World, the skeptics book about the Salem witch trials. He says that Samuel Paris beat Tituba before one of her examinations. So he makes it clear that he's not standing up for her. So she probably knew that the only option left to her was to just tell them what they wanted to hear and hope it would save her life. And it did.

[Irene Bremes]

Kind of validated their entire fear, and they needed to be right. So.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

So it's a self fulfilling prophecy is the irony of the whole is they know what they want a witch to say and she just says it. She says everything that they wanted to hear because she's following their questions. You know, they're prompting her with what they want to hear and she gives it all to them. And now it's like, you know, open season. So suddenly more people start to think that they're bewitched, you know, come down with this mysterious behavior. More people begin to be accused of witchcraft. And as the months go on, the jails literally start to fill with suspects because so it's like they've unleashed this panic. You now all these grudges and fears and conflicts, all of it comes out in 1692. And that's why we have. It's about 170 people who end up getting arrested for the crime of witchcraft.

[Rachel Dratch]

Have you seen Ruffles on my Instagram? She's the new star. She's gone viral. Yes, Ruffles and I did a video for Ollie on my Instagram but there's a picture a few posts before that that I just threw up there. It's Ruffles and I smiling together and it got a million views. A simple shot of Ruffles smiling and she's a sensation. Well, we're here again to talk to you about Ollie dog food. That's right. Now if you've been listening for any amount of time, you know that an animal communicator told me that Ruffles would prefer fresh food. And yes, I've gone full woo woo. And that's when I switched to Ollie. Ollie offers fresh protein packed meals with real human grade ingredients. A win for my dog's health. And they offer five tasty recipes, all slow cooked for top nutrition. And yes, Ruffles is partial to the chicken and carrots and Ruffles loves the taste. She never just sniffs and walks away with Ollie. No. Even the pickiest eaters will show more excitement during mealtime. And with Ollie you get tailored meal plans to meet your dog's specific needs. Perfectly portioned meals in mess free packaging. Also you get a scoop for easy serving and a storage puptainer for zero fridge mess. Also the Ollie app offers on demand health screenings where you can tap real experts for pup peace of mind. Your dog's well being starts with their food and that's why Ollie delivers fresh human grade food that your dog will love. Head to ollie.com woo. Tell them all about your dog and use code WOO to get 60% off your welcome kit when you subscribe today. Plus they offer a happiness guarantee on the first box, so if you're not completely satisfied, you'll get your money back. That's O l l I e.com woo. And enter code woo to get 60% off your first box. Tell him Ruffles sent you. Hello friends. Guess who?

[Irene Bremes]

That's right, it is I, the replacer.

[Rachel Dratch]

Once again, I've been called on so.

[Irene Bremes]

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[Rachel Dratch]

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[Irene Bremes]

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[Rachel Christ Doan]

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[Rachel Dratch]

So for the timeline, those three initial people, was their fate determined immediately? And then more and more people or were they kind of languishing in jail? Then more and more people, like, how did the first execution come about?

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Well, so because they don't have a charter, they can't actually try them. So what they're doing in the beginning is just pre trial examinations. So that happens on March 1st. And once that's happened, they basically send them to prison to wait. And this is where Sarah Good's story gets super dark. And I'm very connected to her right now because her and her daughter are the subject of my research. And it's just like the darkest story. So she had like a. She was born to a very prosperous family. Initially she was set up to have a completely normal life. And then it's like one bad thing after another happens to her. Her father commits suicide, she gets married. Her husband dies very early, like a year later, leaving her widowed and impoverished. She gets married again out of necessity to a pretty incapable provider. So that's why she's begging in Salem Village. And it's why she's pissed, you know, Right, because just so many bad things have happened to her and she's just outwardly letting it fly, you know. So by the time we get to 1692, she has recently had a baby. She had a baby in December of 1691. So her baby's only a couple months old. So she and the baby actually go to jail together because the baby's too young to be separated from her mother. Sarah is in three separate jails. So she starts out in Ipswich, she gets transferred to Salem, and then she ends up in Boston. Her older daughter, Dorothy Good, is also accused of witchcraft. Dorothy's four years old at the time of her accusation. She ends up going to prison with her mother and is in prison for like eight months. And by the time she's released. She's so traumatized by what happened that she's never able to recover herself. So, anyway, I'm about to finish a book about Dorothy Goode, because she. She has a horrible life. After the Salem witch trials, I actually discovered some new information about her life afterwards. She basically is so traumatized by what happens, she's never able to recover, and she becomes a ward of the poverty relief system. It's horrible, it's incredibly dark, but there's a lot of misconceptions around her story, particularly. So for a long time, they called her Dorcas Good in pop culture, and that has lingered into the modern day. And that's actually based on a mistake made in 1692 during the trials when she was initially arrested. They wrote on the arrest warrant, Dorcas Good. You know, some of the historians have made the claim it's probably because they didn't actually know her first name. Like, there's so many people who start to get pulled into this. And she's a child, right? A beggar's child. So the magistrates and Dorcas is a common name at the time. So anyway, it's corrected immediately. In 1692, they start calling her Dorothy, which is her proper name. But. But that first arrest warrant changes the way the narrative goes. And it's a mistake that gets repeated again and again and again, which happens all the time in history. So after her mother is arrested, her father's still out of jail, so she's probably not left to fend for herself in the streets. And there's also. There's some evidence she's kept at somebody named Benjamin Putnam's farm. So anyway, someone's taking care of her.

[Irene Bremes]

We also heard that she was, like, in little chains, which was very heartbreaking.

[Rachel Dratch]

They had to make, like, little chains for her.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Cause her little wrists. Well, so there's a line in 1711 during the reparation hearings that say her father is basically asking for reparations, and he says that she was chained in the dungeon, is the quotation. But it's unclear about how long she was chained. There's nothing, again, that says she was made special chains. You know, there were smaller chains in the inventory of the prison, but also she might not have been chained for the whole time she was in there. It's very uncertain. You know, so striking me about this.

[Rachel Dratch]

Like, in a poignant way and also a way of, like, how many personal stories, like, there's no way to cover each accused story, I mean, in this amount of time. But I Just mean how much, like, each individual. Like, you said. Well, not to get off this topic, but how you said, like, oh, men were accused. Men were hanged. Like, like, how. You know, another thing that was brought up yesterday is, like, it eventually got to, like, because the property would go to somebody. So then it became. I don't know if this is true, but. Okay.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Motivated. But let's talk about it. No.

[Rachel Dratch]

So we heard last night. What? And so I don't want to, like, end the Dorothy discussion if there's more to it, but I was just gonna say that he told us that eventually it morphed into, like, you get the property of somebody, or the state does or something. So then people started accusing wealthy people.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

So the land grab thing, this is something. So in my time working in public history in Salem, there are big misconceptions about the Salem witch trials that become really popular in, like, fads. So for when I first started working, for example, the story of two dogs being hanged during the Salem witch trials was really popular, which did not happen. Two dogs were killed, and there's very little information about it. It seems like they were shot in, like, a moment of group frenzy because they were thought to either be working with a devil or be bewitched or whatever, but they're not, like, formally accused of witchcraft or hang. But that story got so popular, we were being asked about it all the time in recent years. I know I shouldn't say this in a public forum because it'll come back now, but no one's talking about the dog story anymore. But, like, the land grab thing has become such a huge topic in pop culture, and it's complicated because for many years, that was thought to be true, that people lost their land when they were accused of witchcraft during the Salem witch trials. And this is kind of a muddling of a couple of different stories, because that is true in the context of some European witch trials. Like, a desire for monetary gain certainly may have impacted, you know, accusations of witchcraft, but the law in Massachusetts Bay colony in the 17th century did not allow an accuser to take the land of a person who was accused. Like, if you read the law, it's pretty clear. But a person who is convicted of witchcraft could have their movable goods taken by the state. So what that means is once you were convicted, the sheriff could come and take your cows and your pots and pans and your wedding ring, you know, like, your physical objects, and it was held by the state. And so when we see the reparation hearings in 1711, that's people talking about all the things they lost during the Salem witch trials, which is it means that the state had come in and seized their possessions. And, you know, it gets even more complicated because he was doing it kind of extralegally at times. Like he was taking the sheriff was taking things from people before they had been convicted. And there's definitely an element of personal gain for him. But. But is that driving people accusing each other of witchcraft? No, because the accusers didn't get anything out of it. They could not take the property of the person they accused. They could not take the possessions. But let me tell you, when you say this publicly, people get incredibly angry. I have been roasted online, like, viciously by people who just will go to their graves being like, no, it's a land grab. Even though the law in Massachusetts, it contradicts that.

[Irene Bremes]

And also it makes sense, Rachel, because guess what? Then that would be the motivating factor.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

I mean, it goes back to that thing about people love an easy explanation because it's easy for us to be like, oh, just greed, plain old greed. And it's not to say that land disputes weren't at work here. You know, like, people, again, having these grudges about fighting over land and territory and whatever. That's certainly feeding into people accusing each other of witchcraft and the grudges they're holding, but they didn't actually get anything out of it. And again, this is further complicated by the fact that this was once thought to be accurate and it's something that our museum has to take out of our narrative. You know, in the 70s, that was still the common story, you know, of the Salem witch trials. But it's something we're unlearning in recent years, and people are really resistant to taking that out of the story. So anyway.

[Rachel Dratch]

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[Irene Bremes]

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[Rachel Dratch]

Wait, I have two questions I want to. I wish I had a little piece of paper. One is, oh, I did ask before but. But I know I brought you on many tangents like how did the first execution happen? And who was that? And then I know we can't cover the entire sandwich history, but I was wondering after these three people are accused, who was next? Who was the next one in the domino? And then I know people are just gonna have to go, including myself, read some books that you're gonna recommend, maybe your upcoming tome. But I was wondering like first execution, next sort of domino in the thing. And then I had one more that I'll try to remember.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

But okay, so let's go chronologically. Okay. So the first three people are accused of witchcraft. Right? So then slowly, more fingers start to get pointed. And we're still talking. We're still in March of 1692. Right. And the circle.

[Rachel Dratch]

We're only in March. We're only in March.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

We've made a talk from January to March.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay, go on.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

I know. It's just. It's such a big topic. No, I know.

[Rachel Dratch]

Oh, my God.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

So we have those first two girls who are sick, right? Betty Paris and Abigail Williams. So now we have two more girls who are also sick. Ann Putnam Jr. And Elizabeth Hubbard.

[Rachel Dratch]

Sidebar, which I should not do in a moment. Did you see John Proctor as the villain? So the two girls and then two other girls.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

So two more girls, and they're both living like they're in close proximity to the first affliction. So Ann Putnam Jr. Is a fairly close neighbor. And Elizabeth Hubbard is the niece of the doctor who first says the girls are bewitched. So we can kind of see, you know, the girls are very aware of what's going on in the house.

[Rachel Dratch]

Like, I want attention, too.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Yeah. They start mimicking the same behavior.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yeesh.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

So. And then we start to see more fingers pointed. So first it's another usual suspect. Her name is Martha Corey. She is. She's a member of the church, which is the first kind of departure, you know, from the ordinary. That's quite unusual. But she's another kind of mouthy, you know, outspoken woman.

[Rachel Dratch]

Mouthy broads. I reckon this one's mouthy.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Okay, go. You would nod a farewell in 1692.

[Rachel Dratch]

I told Rachel.

[Irene Bremes]

Rachel.

[Rachel Dratch]

Didn't I say it already?

[Irene Bremes]

I said to Rachel that I'd be burned at the stakes.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Well, technically, you'd be hanged. Hanged.

[Rachel Dratch]

Sorry, we're getting to the.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Yeah, I know. We're getting.

[Rachel Dratch]

We're getting to the misconceptions. Okay, sorry.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

So she's accused of witchcraft.

[Rachel Dratch]

It's not.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

And she also has a. A child who's mixed race from a previous marriage, which, again, shocking, Right. For the day. So there's scandal in her past. So. But then we start to see some more unusual suspects. Be named Dorothy Good is, you know, one of the next people, as is Rebecca Nurse. And Rebecca Nurse is a weird person to accuse of witchcraft because she's, like, a model Puritan woman. She's a member of the church. She's a older woman. She's, like, 71 years old. She is the mother of eight living children, which is seen as, like, a very positive sign. And you know, God has smiled on you because mortality. Infertile and infant mortality so high.

[Rachel Dratch]

Living when she's 71.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Exactly, exactly. She's got grandkids by this point. You know, she's. She's known to be, like, hard working, industrious, she's respected. So why is she accused of witchcraft? And this is where the Salem Witch Trials, you start to see those old grudges coming into play, you know, because. And there's a lot of, you know, this is a separate podcast. Why is Rebecca Nurse accused of witchcraft? But it seems like, you know, old family grudges, old family disputes with the Putnam family in particular. You know, these things are coming up. Yeah, the Purge.

[Rachel Dratch]

What's the Purge?

[Irene Bremes]

Okay. The Purge is like, one day where, like.

[Rachel Dratch]

No, but I mean, is the.

[Irene Bremes]

It's a horror movie that really is probably predicated on exactly what we're talking about.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Yeah. Okay.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yeah.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

So. But then you all start to see more people accused. So now we're moving into, like, April May and again.

[Rachel Dratch]

But why was Rebecca accused?

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Or. We don't know. We don't know. So until we get that all important time machine, we always say we can go back, you know, it's just. You can make guesses, you know, so it's.

[Rachel Dratch]

She was my feet.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Yeah. No, she wasn't.

[Rachel Dratch]

She wasn't.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Yeah. Family.

[Rachel Dratch]

Oh, the grudge. Sorry, sorry, sorry.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

So it seems she's the. That's, like, sweet old lady who doesn't think, you know, when she's accused, she's, like, informed of the accusation when she's bedridden during an illness.

[Rachel Dratch]

So I don't like this one.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

I don't get this at all.

[Rachel Dratch]

I'm coming out against the Salem witch trial.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

How dare you. Controversial of my stance.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay, continue.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

So. And this is. This is a pattern you see throughout the witch trials. That is one of the things that makes Salem different is people start to get targeted who normally never would be accused of witchcraft, let alone arrested, held in prison, convicted, and executed. Rebecca Nurse is one not to jump ahead, but she's one of the people who's executed, which is really shocking to people.

[Rachel Dratch]

This is sad, by the way. What I mean is, you come to Salem, you're walking around, you're seeing, like, witch stores and da, da. Then you actually take a tour or learn about this, and it's incredibly sad.

[Irene Bremes]

Yes.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Yeah. It's dark. It's a dark story. It's a dark time, and it's one of those things that the more you know about it, the darker it gets. But also the more relatable it gets. You know, like the human behavior we see today, it's there. It's what's driving all of this, you know, so it's really easy for us looking now to be like, how could they do this? How could they do this? Well, how could we do what we're doing now? How could we do what we were doing in the 50s during Arthur Miller's time? You know, it's the same old cycle, just a different century, you know, and.

[Irene Bremes]

It'S what you said in the exhibit, it's fear trigger scapegoat. And it happens over and over again. We never learn our lesson.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

So let's get to the executions, right? Yeah, let's.

[Rachel Dratch]

We're never going to get there.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

This is going to be a five.

[Rachel Dratch]

Part series to the hanging tree.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

So I know you got to laugh through. It's a, it's a macabre here.

[Rachel Dratch]

It's very macabre. Okay, but let's get to the hanging tree. I'm just glad we use the word maab in this podcast. Okay, continue. Did you know traditional bed sheets can hold more bacteria than a toilet seat? Is not a good line to use when you're chatting it up at a cocktail party this holiday season. But it's true. And that's why I'm here to tell you about Miracle made sheets. Miracle made bedding is designed to fight bacteria and stay cleaner longer with silver infused fabrics that actually Prevent up to 99.7% of bacterial growth. Thanks to their antibacterial silver technology, Miracle made sheets stay cleaner and fresher up to three times longer than regular sheets Sheets that means fewer odors, fewer wash cycles and way less laundry. And with MiracleMate's NASA inspired technology, they help regulate your body temperature. Hot sleeper, cold sleeper, doesn't matter. These sheets help you keep in the comfort zone all night long. And they feel just as good, if not better than sheets you'd find at a five star hotel but without the steep pricing. Smooth, breathable and ridiculously comfortable. So upgrade your sleep or give the gift of better rest. Go to trymiracle.com woo to try miracle made sheets today you'll save over 40%. And when you use promo code Woo, you'll get an extra 20% off plus a free three piece towel set. They make an amazing gift and with a 30 day money back guarantee, there's no risk. That's trymiracle.com woo and use code woo at checkout Out. Thank you Miracle Maid for sponsoring this episode.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

So more and More people start to be accused. The accusations reach outside of Salem. So you start to see people from, you know, like Ipswich, Amesbury, Marblehead, like the surrounding area, reaches further and further out until one of the men who's executed is living in Maine at the time of his accusation. Yeah. And they go all the way to Maine, arrest him and bring him back.

[Rachel Dratch]

Wait, how did. Just. I'm sorry, there's so many tangents, but how did, how did he get accused?

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Well, so he actually, his name is Reverend George Burroughs, and he is one of the former ministers of Salem Village. So Salem Village is having its own whole side story of they can't seem to keep a minister. There's factional fighting going on about who the minister should be. He had come and gone, basically. They just keep driving candidates out. Cause nobody could agree on if they like a minister. So he has all kinds of, you know, conflict with various people. He leaves. He's at a certain point like, enough, I'm done with this. And he leaves and he goes back to what was then considered the northern frontier, which is Maine, which is where some of the worst fighting is going on during the war between the colonists and the indigenous people of the area. But he's like, I'm done. I'm going back to the war zone. You know, literally when witchcraft accusations start to come out, we see families that had conflict with him when he was here pointing fingers at him. And it's taken seriously enough that they literally make the, you know, days long trip to Maine on horseback, arrest him, bring him back, try him and actually execute him.

[Rachel Dratch]

No.

[Irene Bremes]

I have a question now. Why was he. I had enough. Was he somebody that was actually standing up against and defending these women?

[Rachel Christ Doan]

This is before the Salem witch trial. So he's a minister in Salem village in the 80s? Yeah. No, no one's been killed yet. Is when he was in Salem Village originally. So this is a dispute that's like a grudge that's years old at this point. And they're still remembering it, you know, like this is. This is still fresh enough for them that he has no idea maybe even what's going on in Salem, you know, and they show up in his community in Maine and they're like, nope, you are accused of witchcraft and you're coming with us. And he does so. So the. When we say the Salem witch trials reach out of Salem, we mean they really reach out of Salem. Finally though, in May of 1692, the charter arrives, which is huge. So there's a new royally appointed governor whose Name is William Phips. He steps off the boat with the new charter in his hand, and he finds that his colony that he is now in charge of is in the midst of the worst witchcraft panic in the history of New England. The jails are starting to, like, overflow with people accused of witchcraft at this point. So ordinarily, what would happen next is they have to get the charter in place, which is kind of a long bureaucratic process. You have to, like, re elect your officials, rewrite your laws, have them approved by England, come back, It's a whole thing. But he decides that the situation warrants immediate action. So he creates an emergency court, which is called the Court of Oyer and Terminer. And its main purpose is it's going to try the witchcraft suspects. But because it's an emergency court, the magistrates are basically told, you know, do what you think is best. Base your choices on past precedent, but, you know, do what the situation warrants. So they decide to allow some really controversial evidence to be used. And that's why the Salem witch trials get really out of control. Because, again, as we talked about, it was actually really hard to convict someone of witchcraft before the Salem witch trials in Massachusetts. You needed very strong, very reliable evidence. But because there's this emergency court, they're like, you know what, these spectral stories, these invisible witch ghosts that are flying around and only the victims can see. We're going to allow that. And not only are we going to allow that, but that's enough. To convict someone of witchcraft had never been enough before, but because people are just so panicked, and without that evidence, which is called spectral evidence, all of these cases are basically gonna fall apart immediately. So the magistrates are like, you know what? Fine, we'll use it. So the first person tried is a woman named Bridget Bishop. She's not the first person accused, but she's another woman. She's been widowed twice. She's a little bit mouthy. She's known to kind of publicly fight with her husband and her neighbors. She would physically fight with her husband. Sometimes he would hit her. She would hit him. Like, she's kind of an unusual woman of the time. So the attorney general picks her intentionally because she has evidence that's beyond spectral evidence. You know, people are willing to come forward and give a bunch of, yeah, I thought Bridget Bishop was a witch for years now, you know, so they convict her, they execute her in June. And that's actually when Nathaniel Saltonstall, the magistrate, which we talked about a little bit earlier, he steps off the court after that he says, you know what? I don't think that that was right. And he leaves the court. And then, wouldn't you know it, later in the summer, his specter is seen flying around. And he's never accused of witchcraft. Formally, he's too well to do in the colony, but it seems like it really ruins his life. There's a letter that says he's later, like, passed over for a judgeship and becomes an alcoholic, basically. So.

[Rachel Dratch]

So Bridget is hanged. She's the first one.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

She's the first one hanged. And then the court just keeps rolling, you know, for lack of a better term. So they have. The second session is in late June, early July. During that time, five more people are executed. Sarah Good is one of them. Rebecca Nurse is one of them. And Rebecca Nurse, actually, her case, she has so much defense against her. Her family really comes, you know, to her defense, and they actually. The court initially finds her innocent, and then there's such an outcry from the witnesses there who all claim to be hurt by these invisible specters, that they retry her in light of this new evidence, quote, unquote, find her guilty. And her family fights it and they try to get it reversed, but it's too late. And she's executed.

[Rachel Dratch]

Oh, my God, that's so terrible. She's like 71. 72 years old.

[Irene Bremes]

71 years old grandma with eight kids. Right. And all because they said she astro projected, which is what we're calling it today.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Yeah. And she. So we talked a little bit about when we walked through the museum. Descendants. There's so many descendants. Rebecca Nurse arguably has the most descendants. She's up there. Of the people we meet coming into the museum every day, she has a incredible number of living descendants today. Yeah.

[Irene Bremes]

Now, was anybody else in her family, like her children also accused of.

[Rachel Dratch]

But the children are grown.

[Irene Bremes]

Right.

[Rachel Dratch]

Like, just so.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Yeah. So her two sisters are both accused of witchcraft. And actually one of the sisters is executed.

[Rachel Dratch]

Wait a minute, hold on, hold on. So she's executed and then her two sisters are accused.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

But then another. Then her sister's executed.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Yeah. So her sister, Mary Esty is executed in September. So at the end of the trials, Mary Esty actually has. We have very few documents actually written by the people involved. You know, especially women. Having something that's written in a woman's voice at this time is quite rare. But Mary Esty writes. She writes two petitions, one co authored with her sister Sarah, and then one after she's been convicted on her own behalf. And it'll Bring you to tears. Literally, where she says, like, I'm writing not on behalf of my own life. Cause I know I must die, but I want you to consider sparing other innocent lives. You know, and that's very much paraphrased, but it's. You know, this woman's, like, about to be executed, and she says, you know, just don't hurt any other innocent people concerned about others.

[Irene Bremes]

Yeah.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

You know, and it really. There are a couple documents from the Salem witch trials that will really bring you to tears, and Mary Ariasti's petition is certainly one of them.

[Rachel Dratch]

I was stunned into silence.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

What a way for you guys to start your morning this morning.

[Irene Bremes]

Oh, my gosh.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Let me just. Trauma dump 300 years ago.

[Rachel Dratch]

Wait, I have more questions.

[Irene Bremes]

They're like, me, too. Oh, puns.

[Rachel Dratch]

Were these executions public? Would people come out and watch them?

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Yes. And. And that was common for the time, though no executions had happened in Salem before the this. Capital crimes were usually punished in Boston. So usually you would go to Boston, be tried there and executed. Actually, Boston Common is one of the sites where people were hanged. You know, our beautiful Boston Common today.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yeah.

[Irene Bremes]

What? Putting a spin on the Common.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

I know. Yeah, I know. You'll never look at Boston Common the same way. There were two sites where public hangings happened in Boston, and the Common was one of them.

[Rachel Dratch]

Was it like. What was the tone? I mean, I don't know if we know this, but what was. Was it like. Yeah, like, ww. Whatever. Was it like. Was like a public, you know, we're going to the hanging, or was it very. What was the tone of it?

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Well, ordinarily, it seems like, yeah, this was kind of an entertainment thing in a way.

[Irene Bremes]

Like gladiatorial.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Yeah, literally. And that's speaking in terms of, like, you know, earlier executions. You know, especially, you know, they were thought to be, like, morally educational for people also, you know, literally, like. So especially, like, piracy executions and things like that. People would be like, look, this is why you don't do this bad thing. You know, Puritans are.

[Irene Bremes]

Fear. Fear.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Puritans are very big on moral education. But the Salem Witch trials are a little bit different because, you know, even from the beginning, there is this sense that something's not quite right. And that sense gets stronger and stronger. So, for example, when Bridget Bishop is executed, the tone is more like, yeah, she's a witch. You know, unilaterally among the crowd. People really seem to have believed it. And there may have been some skeptical people in the crowd, but more so it's like, yes, this is a necessary thing to do. But as the summer goes on and you have someone like Rebecca Nurse being hanged or George Burroughs being hanged or Mary Estey being hanged, more and more people in the crowd are like, this is not okay. This is a corruption of justice. These are innocent people being hanged. And actually, during George Burroughs execution, is that the guy?

[Rachel Dratch]

Who was he?

[Rachel Christ Doan]

So he's the one from Maine.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay, okay.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

So he's the minister for Maine. So he's executed in August. And he makes quite a scene at his execution because there's, like, a folk belief at this time that witches can't say the Lord's Prayer perfectly. They'll stutter on it. Yes. So he, as he's standing literally at the foot of the gallows, recites the Lord's Prayer perfectly without error. And the crowd's looking at each other like he wasn't supposed to be able to do that. But Cotton Mather, who is a minister from Boston, is there for the first time. This is the first time he makes a trip from Boston to see the exodus of a minister, which is a big deal. He kind of calms the crowd down and says, you know what? That was a folk test you were never supposed to be using anyway. The devil transforms himself into an angel of light. You know, just ignore it and move on. But the Robert Califf, our skeptic who writes that book that gives us a skeptic's view of the Salem witch trials, he says that people leave that hanging day particularly, like, feeling like something isn't right, you know, so. But there's another hanging after that day, you know, there's still another mass hanging.

[Rachel Dratch]

Double, like, the same day. No, sorry, sorry, sorry.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

So there's one in August, and then a month later, there's one in late September. So even after George Burroughs is executed and the last hanging day is the biggest, eight people were executed on that day. Wow.

[Rachel Dratch]

That was the last day they hanged people.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

That was the last day.

[Rachel Dratch]

Eight people, yeah.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Mary Esty being one of them. Yeah. Yeah.

[Irene Bremes]

Such a tragedy.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

It's dark.

[Irene Bremes]

It's so dark. And, you know, it just gives you. There's such uncertainty. You can't even just hide in your cabin, you know, because if people don't see you, that's also, you know, basis for accusation.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Yep.

[Irene Bremes]

Yeah.

[Rachel Christ Doan]

Yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

I have a lot more questions. One is, I wanted to talk about the myths about, like, the swim or sink, the whole thing and burning a sink, all that stuff. That's right, Listener. I did have a lot more questions, and that's why we're turning this into a two parter, because we had so much to talk about that we had enough for two episodes. So make sure you tune in next week week where we talk more about the Salem witch trials and beyond. We talk about things like that thing you might have heard about. You throw the accused in the water and if they sink they were a witch and if they float, they're innocent. We're going to explore that whole thing. We talked about a theory you might have heard about was the whole hysteria caused by moldy wheat. And we even talk about, oh, more witches in modern culture and how this is interesting, something about the wizard of Oz and how it changed the narrative on witches and a very interesting conversation about witches, feminism and beyond. So please tune in next week. We love talking to Rachel to wrap up our Salem field trip. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week. And you can find me on Instagram at Ray D Drach, that's R A E Dratch. And you can find Irene at Irenebremis. That's B R E M I S Bremis. And thanks for listening. Thanks for joining me on this journey into the world of Woo Woo. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch is a Q Code production executive produced by David Henning and stuff Steve Wilson produced by Alexa Gabriel Ramirez, edited by Will Tendi.