Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch

Episode: Rachel Christ-Doane: Salem Witch Panic - Pt II
Date: November 12, 2025

Episode Overview

In this rich and often surprisingly funny continuation of their Salem series, host Rachel Dratch, co-host Irene Bremis, and guest Rachel Christ-Doane (Director of Education at the Salem Witch Museum) pick up the thread on the aftermath and legacy of the Salem Witch Trials. The conversation explores the unraveling of the trials, evolving perceptions of witches, the persistence (and debunking) of popular myths, the lasting role of magic in culture, and how The Wizard of Oz—and overlooked feminists—influenced America’s image of witches. The episode deftly balances history, cultural commentary, and personal anecdotes, delivering both scholarly insight and moments of infectious laughter.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The End of the Witch Trials – Public Skepticism and Fallout

• Public Pushback and the Governor’s Intervention

  • Growing criticism and skepticism among colonists, ministers, and even family members of the accused led to waning support for the trials by September 1692.
  • The tipping point: the governor’s wife was accused, making the insanity of the process undeniable.
  • Quote:

    “If they're seeing her specter, maybe we shouldn't have been using this spectral evidence this whole time.”
    — Rachel Christ (02:22)

• Closure and Aftermath

  • The special court is disbanded; in 1693, a new, more rational Superior Court (still in use today) ceases admitting spectral evidence, leading most cases to collapse.
  • Last-minute pardons saved those still in jail—including pregnant women awaiting execution.
  • The government in 1711 officially acknowledged the injustice, issuing reparations.
  • Quote:

    “Right away, it’s understood that innocent people were accused of witchcraft, if not executed.”
    — Rachel Christ (05:48)

Salem’s Immediate & Long-Term Legacy in American Culture

• Birth of the 'Witch Hunt' Metaphor

  • “Salem” quickly became shorthand for hysterical, accusatory groupthink.
  • Referenced by John Adams, invoked in American debates for centuries.
  • Quote:

    “You behave as they did in Salem, with Salem being a metaphor for superstitious behavior or irrational behavior. And that metaphor keeps being used.”
    — Rachel Christ (08:56)

• Cycles in Human Behavior

  • The persecutory mentality recurs: “It had to touch your life specifically for people to start saying, maybe something’s wrong here.”
    — Rachel Christ (09:39)

Prison Conditions and the Myth of Widespread Torture

• Conditions Described

  • Jails were overcrowded, vermin-infested, and prisoners had to pay their way out—even when acquitted.
  • Only rare documented instances of torture: Giles Corey’s “pressing” and teens tied neck-to-heels until they confessed.
  • Quote:

    “You don't need to sensationalize because the truth is sensational enough. What really happened is dark enough.”
    — Rachel Christ (14:18)

• Sheriff George Corwin: Nepotism and Brutality

  • Corwin, a young, nepotistically appointed sheriff, looted property and oversaw executions but was not responsible for widespread torture.
  • Quote:

    “He's the one who's ransacking people's houses before they've been convicted.”
    — Rachel Christ (16:12)

Mythbusting: No Water Trials or Burnings in Salem

• Swimming Test:
  Not practiced in Salem, though it existed elsewhere as a cruel ordeal.
  • Quote:

    “They did a lot of very brutal things during the Salem witch trials. The swimming test is not one of them.”
    — Rachel Christ (18:31)

• Burning at the Stake:
  European, not New England practice.

The Ergot/Moldy Rye Theory—Thoroughly Debunked

• Origins & Refutation
  • A popular 1970s theory suggested ergot poisoning (hallucinogenic fungus in rye) caused the girls’ fits.
  • Historical reality: the patterns of illness and accusation do not fit food-borne poisoning.
  • The theory persists in pop culture, despite being disproven by historians.
  • Quote:

    “If it was spoiled crops, it would be much clearer... it’s so popular, you can’t really get a hold of the pop culture monster.”
    — Rachel Christ (21:46)

Witches, Women, and the Politics of Difference

• Were Witches Just "Mouthy" Women or Healers?

  • Some women—esp. independently employed, midwives, or healers—were vulnerable to accusations, but not all accused fit this pattern.
  • The narrative of all accused being proto-feminist healers is an oversimplification.
  • Quote:

    “It’s not that the majority of people accused were midwives... but it’s one of those factors that could make you more vulnerable.”
    — Rachel Christ (25:18)

• Feminist Myths and Bad Scholarship

  • Some 20th century feminists inflated execution numbers and misrepresented the history for ideological reasons.
  • Quote:

    “The core is beautiful, but then just kind of running with the history in whatever way fits your narrative.”
    — Rachel Christ (29:33)

The Persistence—and Evolution—of Magic

• Magic as Comfort and Control

  • Magic persists in every culture across time as a set of rituals to gain a sense of control.
  • Still exists in everyday superstitions (lucky horseshoes, treating hair/clippings with care).
  • Quote:

    “Magic being a set of rituals or traditions that make you feel like you have control or influence in a world that is largely beyond our control.”
    — Rachel Christ (31:12)

• Folk "Anti-Witch" Magic

  • People used magic to repel witches—Bellarmine jugs, witch cakes (made of rye and urine!), etc.
  • The “witch cake” episode directly aggravated hysteria in Salem.
  • Quote:

    “But it seems like it makes the girls more afraid that they're hurt by witchcraft. And it's shortly after the witchcake experiment that two more girls become sick.”
    — Rachel Crist (36:35)

How The Wizard of Oz Shaped American Witch Imagery

• Introduction of the “Good Witch”

  • Baum’s Oz books (inspired, perhaps, by his feminist mother-in-law Matilda Joslyn Gage) are the first to widely introduce good witches in American pop culture.
  • Quote:

    “It’s not...too much of a coincidence to be ignored that she writes this book...arguing about witchcraft and talking about how it’s innocent women.”
    — Rachel Crist (43:23)

• The Green-Skinned Witch

  • The 1939 film invents the “green witch” image for cinematic color; quickly becomes the enduring stereotype.
  • Quote:

    “There’s all kinds of weird stories out there about how, like, green skin comes from women who used herbs... That’s based in nothing.”
    — Rachel Crist (45:18)

• From “Crone” to Glamour

  • Modern witches in pop culture (Sabrina, Charmed, Bewitched, etc.) are now mostly young, beautiful, and empowered.

The Messy Reality of History

• Beware Simple Explanations
  • The intricacies and multi-causality of the trials: "If somebody is not going to give you a great explanation, it’s if they simplify it way too... That's how you can tell somebody hasn't done enough homework. Because if you really know the story, you're like—well, it was actually this, like, combination effect."
    — Rachel Crist (47:32)

Notable Quotes

• “You don't need to sensationalize because the truth is sensational enough. Right? Like, you don't need to make up stories about the Salem witch trials—what really happened is dark enough.”
  — Rachel Christ (14:18)

• “Magic being a set of rituals or traditions that make you feel like you have control or influence in a world that is largely beyond our control.”
  — Rachel Christ (31:12)

• “Witches aren’t witches—they were women who are being targeted by a society that sees them as, you know, bad or corrupt for whatever reason.”
  — Rachel Crist on Matilda Joslyn Gage’s argument (43:17)

• “The tell of if somebody is not going to give you a great explanation is if they simplify it way too—if they give you a really simple answer. That's how you can tell somebody hasn't done enough homework.”
  — Rachel Crist (47:32)

• “Giles himself doesn't know [how old he was either].”
  — Rachel Christ (54:12)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:52 – Start of show, intro to guest and topics
• 02:22 – Public skepticism, governor’s wife accused, end of special court
• 05:48 – Reparations, acknowledgment of injustice
• 08:35 – Witch hunt as metaphor in American consciousness
• 12:48 – Reality of prison conditions and torture myths
• 16:44 – Water tests and burning at the stake myths debunked
• 19:21 – Ergot/rye bread theory, popular myth thoroughly debunked
• 24:50 – Witch accusations and the politics of "othered" women
• 29:33 – Feminist re-imaginings and misinterpretations of witch history
• 31:06 – What is "magic"? Enduring magical practices in culture
• 35:45 – Witch cakes—magic used to find witches
• 38:56 – Wizard of Oz, Matilda Joslyn Gage, and the good witch in pop culture
• 45:18 – Where does "green-skinned witch" come from? Film vs. reality
• 47:32 – Why the messy, complicated history matters
• 51:37 – Pendulum reading: did Giles Corey know his age?
• 54:12 – The pendulum answers: Giles didn’t know!

Memorable and Fun Moments

• The pendulum reading at the end to “ask” how old Giles Corey really was, only to discover even the spirit (or the pendulum) “didn’t know.” (51:37 onward)
• Rachel Dratch and Irene Bremis playfully compete and joke about their differing pendulum answers, underlining the episode’s mix of levity and scholarship.
• Irene’s repeated references to “mouthy women” and the group’s celebration of women who “don’t hold up—sassy!” (29:37)

Summary Tone

The conversation is witty, nonjudgmental, and empathetic, continually looping contemporary parallels into historical lessons while keeping history factual—and resisting the temptation to over-simplify or over-mythologize. Rachel Christ-Doane’s depth of knowledge and clear non-sensationalism pair perfectly with Rachel Dratch and Irene Bremis’s humor and openness to all things “woo woo.”

For Listeners:

If you want to tour the Salem Witch Museum after listening, Rachel and Irene say: “We’ve only scratched the surface of all the things there are to see.” (48:42) And, according to Rachel Crist: “You could spend a lifetime studying Salem. And people do.”