Sheila O'Malley: Frankenstein and Creating A Monster

Summary

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Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch

Episode: Sheila O'Malley: Frankenstein and Creating A Monster
Date: January 7, 2026
Guests: Sheila O’Malley (Film Critic & Author)
Co-Host: Irene Bremis
Host: Rachel Dratch

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Episode Overview

This lively, insightful episode of "Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch" dives into the origins, themes, and cinematic journey of Frankenstein, both as Mary Shelley's classic and as reimagined by Guillermo del Toro in his latest Netflix film. Film critic and author Sheila O’Malley joins Rachel and Irene to discuss her new book, The Art and Making of Frankenstein, her unique experiences writing about film, the enduring resonance of Shelley’s creation, and the deep, often mystical connection between pop culture, horror, and the unexplained. Along the way, the conversation bubbles with humor, deep cut film lore, woo woo tangents, and plenty of memorable asides.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Sheila O’Malley’s Film Critic Journey

• Background: Sheila reveals she’s been a critic for RogerEbert.com since 2013, a role she received after Ebert personally offered her the job late in his life (02:18).
  • “He was very open to [Internet critics]...as he was moving into his final phase of life, he reached out to people that he had read to carry on his legacy.” – Sheila (03:27)
• Transition to Criticism: Her start was blogging, driven by personal obsessions and the need to resurrect creative dreams.
  • “I was just doing it because I was bored. I had an office job and...my dreams were dead. This was a way to kind of resurrect.” – Sheila (05:53)

Writing Critically, With Empathy

• Sheila struggled at first to write negative reviews due to her respect for actors and creative effort (04:50).
• She strives to review with context: “Not everything is for you...you can't dismiss something because it’s not for you.” – Sheila (09:33)
• On dishonesty in film: she is harsher toward dishonest or vanity projects, but avoids “punching down” at microbudget films (09:12).

The Roger Ebert Review of ‘North’ Anecdote (07:13)

• Rachel shares the story of Ebert’s famously scathing review (“Hated, hated, hated, hated...”) and a subsequent good-natured encounter between writer Alan Zweibel and Ebert.
• “You put yourself out there. You deserve what you get.” – Sheila (08:36)

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Frankenstein on Netflix & The New Book

The Art and Making of Frankenstein

• Sheila’s Role: Commissioned to create the companion book to the new Frankenstein, despite having never done anything similar. She started without having seen a frame of the film (16:13).
• Connections: Hired through her past encounter with Guillermo del Toro and mutual friends in the film industry (16:31).
• Set Visits: Visited the set in Scotland months into the process: “Scotland...is so filled with ghosts of murdered kings. I mean, I don’t know, it just feels very...woo woo.” – Sheila (18:31)
• Book Structure: Includes interviews, beautiful photos, and a section on Mary Shelley and the Romantics (21:54–22:20).

Mary Shelley & Origins of Frankenstein

• Shelley wrote Frankenstein as a teenager, after running away with Percy Shelley—a story of rebellion and scandal (24:54).
• It emerged during a literary challenge at Lord Byron’s villa, inspired by a nightmare vision: “A vividness far beyond the usual bounds of reverie...I saw with shut eyes the pale student of the unhallowed arts.” – Mary Shelley (read by Sheila, 28:58)
• Shelley’s sympathy was always with the creature, whom she used to express her own sense of social alienation (33:14).

Guillermo del Toro’s Interpretation

• Adds psychological depth: “Guillermo definitely wanted to portray explicitly this breaking of the cycle of abuse.” – Sheila (39:10)
• Shifts perspective: The monster is truly the creation, but it’s the creator (Dr. Frankenstein) who becomes monstrous—a theme in Shelley’s original as well.
• Rachel and Irene praise the film’s design and humanizing of the monster: “They did a fantastic job of making him look beautiful...but also, the way he was patched together was so artfully done.” – Rachel (23:17)

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Woo Woo Themes & Symbolism

• Romantic Gothicism: The hosts and guest discuss the roots of Frankenstein in Romantic and Gothic tradition, noting how supernatural fear and societal alienation are core to its power.

  • “Wuthering Heights is really a ghost story...there’s lot of supernatural.” – Sheila (26:16)
  • Irene highlights the Biblical and religious undertones: “He was like the creator...with hubris and then abandoning Adam, in a sense, when he was...You know what I mean? That biblical relevance.” (38:00)

• Mary Shelley as Trailblazer:

  • “She was like a feminist in a way.” – Irene (35:18)
  • Her background as a "Nepo baby" with revolutionary, radical parents helped her find her voice in a male-dominated literary world (32:33).

• Woo Woo Set Experience: Scotland’s haunted landscapes and Frankenstein’s gothic roots are a recurring motif (18:31).

• Dreams & Creative Mysticism: The notion of creative inspiration springing from dreams is celebrated.

  • “She went to bed kind of thinking about this and had this vision of this figure at the foot of her bed who was a created being. And she was filled with horror.” – Sheila (27:16)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Roger Ebert on Criticism:
  • “I hated this movie. Hated, hated, hated, hated, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate this movie.” (as quoted by Rachel, 07:14)
• Sheila on Empathic Criticism:
  • “You can’t dismiss something because it’s not for you.” (09:44)
• Sheila on Frankenstein:
  • “Her sympathy was with the creature, which is often missed in adaptations. ... The doctor is the monster very explicitly in Guillermo’s version.” (34:33)
• Irene on Symbolism:
  • “There were so many things that I had to write down...He was like the creator...that biblical relevance.” (38:00)
• Rachel on The Monster’s Humanity:
  • “They did a fantastic job of making him look beautiful...But also, the way he was patched together was so artfully done.” (23:17)
• Irene on Shelley as Elizabeth:
  • “Mia Goth brought it...in past iterations...she’s always portrayed as a wallflower. But they maintain who she would be at the time, but really gave her the flair of a feminist.” (36:20)

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Notable Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Quote | |-------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:18–03:27 | Sheila describes joining RogerEbert.com and her path to film criticism | | 07:13–08:32 | The “I hated, hated, hated...” review story and Ebert getting ribbed by Alan Zweibel | | 13:41–14:39 | On reviewing with empathy and seeking a film’s intention | | 16:13–18:46 | Sheila discusses writing The Art and Making of Frankenstein, visiting the set in Scotland | | 21:54–23:07 | Book structure, combining interviews and Mary Shelley history | | 24:54–29:41 | In-depth look at Mary Shelley’s life and the dream that inspired Frankenstein | | 32:33–34:33 | Shelley’s place in her literary world and the quick rise of Frankenstein as a cultural icon | | 34:40–36:45 | Del Toro’s additions to the story and focus on abuse, plus Elizabeth as a proto-feminist | | 36:45–39:54 | Talk about the film’s performances, symbolism, and the importance of forgiveness in the ending | | 41:54–43:26 | Frankenstein as melodrama and Guillermo del Toro’s resistance to being boxed into ‘horror’ | | 45:18–46:29 | Scariest movies each participant has seen; The Exorcist, Babadook, and Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer | | 47:41–50:23 | Movie quiz – Dratch reveals major movies she hasn’t seen; reflections on viewing habits | | 51:13–52:29 | Pendulum reading (“Will I live in my apartment a long time?” – Sheila gets a ‘yes’) |

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Fun Moments & Running Gags

• Rachel’s admitted gaps in classic movie viewing, e.g., never seeing Jaws or Caddyshack, much to her friends’ mock rage (48:30).
• The group’s playful self-deprecation about not keeping up with Oscar-nominated films.
• Irene’s unexpected deep dives into the literary and symbolic dimensions of horror and classic film: “Are you teaching a college course on this later?” (38:17).

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Where to Find Sheila O’Malley

• Instagram: @therealsheilakathleen
• Blog: sheilaomalley.com
• Film Reviews: RogerEbert.com

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Closing Woo Woo: Pendulum Reading

• The episode closes with the recurring “pendulum reading” – Sheila asks if she’ll stay long in her current apartment, and both pendulums swing “yes”, prompting celebration from the group (51:49–52:29).

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This episode is a perfect blend of deep literary analysis, behind-the-scenes filmmaking insight, woo woo flavor, and classic Dratch/Bremis banter—offering fans both laughs and substantive discussion on why the story of Frankenstein continues to haunt, inspire, and evolve.

Transcript

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[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

Welcome to Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch, the podcast that explores the unexplained with humor and curiosity.

[Rachel Dratch]

Hello and welcome to Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch, here with my pal and co host, Irene Bremis. Hi, Irene.

[Irene Bremis]

Hi, Rachie.

[Rachel Dratch]

Hi. So, Irene, today we have a special guest who's very knowledgeable in the whole world of all things film, which I'm very interested in. Now, let me just say I'm always the person who hasn't seen the movie, which I know is weird because I'm in the biz, but, like, there's so many, like, really, really celebrated, renowned movies that I haven't seen. And we'll do a little quiz later. And people always get really mad, like when they find out I haven't seen, like, you haven't seen da da da. And I induce rage with people with all the movies I haven't seen. So that's for a little later. But we do have a film expert with us here and author. She's a film critic for RogerEbert.com and she has a new book out that we're very excited. Please welcome Sheila o' Malley to the show. Hi, Sheila.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Hello. Very excited to be here.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yes.

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

Thank you for joining us.

[Rachel Dratch]

Now, Sheila, I know that you're a film critic for how many years for.

[Sheila O'Malley]

RogerEbert.com I started in 2013.

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

Yeah.

[Sheila O'Malley]

He offered me the job, I mean, literally on his deathbed. So I review like a movie a week and I write in all kinds of other outlets and stuff, but that's like my regular place where I review. So I. And I get assigned stuff so I'm seeing stuff that I would never seek out. And I love that part of it. I mean, sometimes it's like, why did I just watch this? But, you know.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yeah, I remember when I was in whatever, like, junior high school, that just seems like such a cool job. I get paid to watch movies and review them. And I mean, back then, before the Internet, too, by the way, it was more of like, four people are doing this, for sure.

[Sheila O'Malley]

I mean, it's very crowded now.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yeah.

[Sheila O'Malley]

You used to have to go, you know, in person to the screening. So it was very difficult for people who didn't live in a big city to go to a press screening. Still, the big movies, they make you go.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yeah.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Which is annoying because it's like, okay, do you want us to see it and review it? Or I will have to travel. But I'm not complaining.

[Rachel Dratch]

But now, how did you meet Roger Ebert?

[Sheila O'Malley]

I mean, I never met him. Unlike a lot of the older guard of print, you know, the people who came from print, he didn't resent all these little Internet people who had the audacity to think that they could be a critic. He was very open to it. And as he was moving into his final phase of life, he was very ill, and he reached out to people that he had read to carry on his legacy. But I didn't know I was on his radar. A couple of my friends knew him, so I think someone must have recommended me. So it was just out of the blue.

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

That's amazing.

[Rachel Dratch]

And where were your pieces before? Like, in newspaper.

[Sheila O'Malley]

My blog.

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

Blog. Wow.

[Rachel Dratch]

That's pretty amazing to get called by, like, the granddaddy of film critic to find you.

[Sheila O'Malley]

That was a 2013 thing. I don't know if it would happen now. There's so many more.

[Rachel Dratch]

Right.

[Sheila O'Malley]

You know, at that time, the little film critic independent world was pretty small. And also all of the print jobs are gone anyway.

[Rachel Dratch]

But still, it speaks to your skills to get tapped like that for such a big.

[Irene Bremis]

Absolutely.

[Sheila O'Malley]

It was pretty cool. I mean, I did mostly, like, I wrote about actors. I wrote these lengthy. So actually having to write reviews was new for me. I had to just pretend I knew what I was doing.

[Rachel Dratch]

Right.

[Sheila O'Malley]

It was very difficult for me to give a bad review because I was always on the side of the actors. I was always like, but they're doing, you know, because, like, sometimes you have to just. I had to learn how to do that.

[Irene Bremis]

Right.

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Wow.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Because I'm, like, writing about, you know, Cary Grant and Elvis and people. I admire the stuff. I love writing So I had to just learn really fast and educate myself because there's a lot of blind spots. I didn't go to film school. I was taking, you know, juggling classes with Mitchell, you know, like, I was.

[Irene Bremis]

Not like formally trained as a film, you know. No, yeah, exactly.

[Sheila O'Malley]

And I always watched a ton of movies, but I had to, like, learn.

[Irene Bremis]

That is brilliant, Sheila, the fact that you were starting a blog when blogs were really explosive.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Yeah, it was new, but it was still competitive.

[Irene Bremis]

See, we think like, oh, back then, just because it was a blog, it was still very competitive. There was a billion blogs that you had to contend with, you know, cuz.

[Sheila O'Malley]

So many of the blogs, which I actually miss those days were like very niche. So someone knew about silent films and that's all they'd write about. Someone would write about horror movies and they were so good. And the blog world was like a little neighborhood and you're just walking around going, hi, what are you doing today? So I miss that. I wasn't like that. I was just more like I would get obsessed with something all on my own. I am now obsessed with Cary Grant and I'm going to write about him every day because I wasn't making money. I was just doing it because I was bored. I had an office job and, you know, my dreams were dead. You know, this was a way to kind of resurrect. Absolutely. And it put something into words that, you know, I'm not going to write about this in my journal. I'm not going to write 10 pages about Cary Grant in my journal.

[Rachel Dratch]

It doesn't come to that.

[Sheila O'Malley]

That's a little sad.

[Irene Bremis]

They're going to be like, he been dead, girlfriend.

[Rachel Dratch]

I have a question. I think you mentioned, like, if you're writing about an actor's performance and in your mind you don't think it was good or whatever, you must know this story about Ellen Zweibel and the movie North. Do you know this story?

[Sheila O'Malley]

No.

[Rachel Dratch]

Oh, this is a Roger Ebert story.

[Sheila O'Malley]

What happened?

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay, so Alan Zweibel used to write for SNL back in the first seasons. Like he wrote with Gilda on a lot of, like Roseanne, Roseanna. I mean, he's classic writer, but he wrote this movie called north back in, I don't know, maybe the early 80s. Anyway, Roger Ebert hated this movie so much that the review, you can look this up. It's like one of the worst reviews he's ever given. And what he wrote was like, I hated this movie. Hated, hated, hated, hated, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate this movie. And so of course it was crushing for Alan at the time, of course. But years later he bumps in. Alan bumps into Roger Ebert in like the men's room at some event. And Roger had some sweater on. I don't know if it was like flashy or not, or if it was just a regular sweater. But Ellen turns to him, tongue in cheek, friendly, I think, I assume just knowing Ellen, he goes, I hate that sweater. Can I just say I hate, hate, hate hate that sweater. But I think it was like a funny, perfect button on that review.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Well, I mean you gotta get your digs in.

[Rachel Dratch]

Exactly. But it was also with a sense of humor. So it was years later. Anyway, I dislike that story.

[Sheila O'Malley]

I think that there was a collection of Roger's reviews, bad reviews, that was published. And I believe it was called I Hate Hate Hate Hate that movie.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay, that's what this is from.

[Irene Bremis]

That's what I'm saying. See, that's where they got it from.

[Sheila O'Malley]

You know, listen, you put yourself out there. You deserve what you get.

[Rachel Dratch]

You know what I mean?

[Sheila O'Malley]

I'm trying to think, honestly, I don't give a ton of bad reviews. I'll say what I think is wrong or doesn't work. There's only a couple movies that have gotten my backup and I don't like. It's not even the message. I'm thinking of a couple movies right now. But now we want to know but where? I feel like it's being really dishonest or it's vanity project and those I'll go after. In general, I don't go after little independent movies.

[Irene Bremis]

Not going to do it micro budget.

[Rachel Dratch]

You know what, Sometimes it's hard. I wonder this as a critic. Sometimes there's a movie and like I don't like it but well, what if someone else likes it? You know, maybe it's just not my cup of tea. And then I wouldn't know how to write that. This is why I'd make a terrible critic. I could like glow over the ones I love and then the ones I really don't like. But then there's those kind of middle ground like eh, those seems like they'd be the hardest to write a review.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Very hard. The middle, it's sort of good. I don't like this part. Those are very difficult. You also have to. Not everything is for you.

[Rachel Dratch]

Right? Right.

[Sheila O'Malley]

I have a pretty broad, you know, I like westerns, I like, you know, I like all kinds of things. But you can't dismiss something because it's not for you.

[Irene Bremis]

Right.

[Sheila O'Malley]

I see this A lot, and I won't name names, but like middle aged men being really just rude about movies that are clearly for tween girls, so perhaps they shouldn't review it. But at the same time, I mean, my whole thing is like, if teenage girls are screaming about something, you need to pay attention because they are the weather vanes of the culture. They see everything first, they lose their minds. Zac Efron, they clocked it. Ten years later, he's doing serious movies and all these male critics are saying, my God, he's good. Everyone knew he was good in High School Musical. You just thought that 13 year olds are silly. So I feel like I do try. Sometimes it's hard. Sometimes it is hard. If it's like really misogynistic in a really simplistic way, you know, that's not for me. But I'm still gonna say what I think.

[Irene Bremis]

Right?

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

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[Rachel Dratch]

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[Irene Bremis]

Also, one of the things that you said that I agree with when it comes to watching a movie is if it's dishonest, it's hard for me to get behind that because you're misleading your audience. So I think whether you know that genre is for you or whatever the content is for you, I think the honesty is important because that to me is the integrity of the film or whatever you're doing.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Yeah. I also feel like if you can figure out what a film is trying to do and judge it on that, now, you may be wrong. You might be wrong. And that's not what they're trying to do. But it's kind of like being in a scene class and someone in the class says, well, I would do it this way. Well, you're not up there and you're not doing it. What are you trying to work on? Are you working on your Southern accent? Are you trying to cry on whatever you're so that I think has been a good guide to be like, okay, this is successful in what it's trying to do. Maybe here it's not. I could be wrong. I could be totally reading the whole thing wrong. But that's helps me to not dismiss something just because I don't like it or, you know, it's low budget. They're doing what they can do, but it doesn't look great. Well, maybe they're trying to do something. I do my best.

[Rachel Dratch]

I really well. Sheila, I want to move into talking about your book and the movie Frankenstein that's on Netflix right now.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Yes.

[Rachel Dratch]

Directed by Guillermo del Toro. And from what I know, you have a book out. It's called the Art and Making of Frankenstein.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Yes.

[Rachel Dratch]

And it's a beautiful book with photos and you did interviews for it. Also, from what I understand, you were on the set as well.

[Sheila O'Malley]

I was.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay, so this is where the woo woo comes in. Because, you know, I wouldn't call this really a horror movie, but it's.

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

What would we call it?

[Rachel Dratch]

A dark gothic. I Don't know, I'm.

[Irene Bremis]

No, it's a reflection of.

[Rachel Dratch]

I mean, in terms of a genre, like it's not quite a horror movie, but it has the woo woo elements of it's goth monster creation. Yeah, goth. And then of course, the actual book of Frankenstein.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Yes.

[Rachel Dratch]

And how that came about. I mean, there's a lot of woo woo in terms of the story of Frankenstein, Mary Shelley and all that, big time. So, I mean, there's a lot of topics to cover around this movie Frankenstein, which Irene and I watched for our homework. I don't usually go for this kind of movie, as you know, I just told you, I don't watch a lot of movies, but I did watch this and I actually really liked it. I don't usually go for anything dark. I like to keep things light because that's where I am at right now. But I'm not a very sort of. Visually, I don't really notice the art of a movie, but I really noticed the way this looks and the design of it and all that. So, I mean, you could start anywhere in this whole thing. But where would you like to start about the making of Frankenstein?

[Sheila O'Malley]

So I've never done anything like this. I got the job and they had just started filming. When I'm interviewing these people, I literally had not seen a frame of it. It was very challenging.

[Rachel Dratch]

Sorry, one question. You got the job. It's like you're going to be making the book that goes along with this movie. Okay.

[Sheila O'Malley]

I had interviewed Guillermo 10 years ago. And I'm sorry I keep mentioning Mitchell, but that's.

[Rachel Dratch]

So we have a mutual friend named Mitchell Fain, Chicago actor that we've. Well, Sheila went to college with him and I've known him from Chicago from forever. And that's how we even got connected. But yes, go ahead.

[Sheila O'Malley]

So Mitchell was there when I interviewed him because I was very nervous and I was doing it live in front of 1500 people, which was stressful. And he was so much fun to interview. And Mitchell was there with me as my guest. So he got to validate because I was having an out of body experience. I didn't remember any of it. I was like, mitchell, was it funny? Did I sound okay? So that was like 10 years ago. I feel like I must have made an impression. He enjoyed it because he started. He followed me on all socials.

[Rachel Dratch]

Cool.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Oh, you know, he's a very personable person. And then a couple years ago, completely separate from all of this, he married a friend of mine who wrote Nightmare Alley with him. They Wrote the screenplay for his. Not his last film, but two films ago. So there were all these connections. So Guillermo and his wife Kim. I know that they recommended me for this because. Well, I can't say why. I just know that they recommended me, which was amazing. Also pressure, though, because I am who I am. I'm not like, oh, I've. I've got this. I was like, I'm going to let people down. I'm fearful of it. But I think everyone. I think it's good.

[Rachel Dratch]

I mean, it looks good.

[Sheila O'Malley]

No reason.

[Rachel Dratch]

Looks good.

[Sheila O'Malley]

I do, you know. So anyway, I got the job in March of 2024, and they had just started filming and it took like four months for me to have a set visit, which was in Scotland. So they filmed most of it in Toronto, and then they moved to Scotland. So I got to go to Scotland.

[Rachel Dratch]

And I love a free trip.

[Sheila O'Malley]

It was incredible. I've never been to Scotland. Talk about woo woo. That place is so filled with ghosts of murdered kings. I mean, I don't know, it just feels very.

[Rachel Dratch]

Field trip Irene.

[Irene Bremis]

Yes.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Yes.

[Irene Bremis]

There's a lot of usurping going on. That's right. That are dead.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Yes, yes. And in the meantime, for those months, I just read biographies of Mary Shelley. I read her letters. I read. You know, I'd read the book in high school, but. Cause I knew Guillermo knows everything about Mary Shelley. This is the movie he's wanted to make since he was like 11. You know what I mean? This is his number one. This in Pinocchio, which he did last year or two years ago. And then I went to Scotland and interviewed, watched the filming, interviewed all the department heads. They made time for me. They were all. They were just incredible. Everybody was so nice. And then I interviewed everybody else over zoom in the following months and then had to write the thing and had to just piece it all together.

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

So you know how on this show we talk about all the woo Woo stuff? Of course you do. The mystical, the weird, the spiritual, the. I don't know what's happening, but something's happening. Well, I recently learned about a very woo Woo mushroom that's been hiding in plain sight since childhood. You've definitely seen it. The bright red cap, little white speckles. You know Mario's mushroom, the fairy tale mushroom. Yeah, you're picturing it right now, right?

[Sheila O'Malley]

That one.

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

It's called Amanita muscaria. It has this ancient history being used for relaxation, dreaminess, introspection, and all kinds of wintry, mystical traditions. And here's the wild Part it's completely legal in almost every state. People use it in tiny gentle amounts to unwind, deepen their creativity, get cozy, sleep better, or just tap into a softer, more magical vibe. Hey man, get the magical vibes. And the best, safest, most reputable place to try it is a company called Amantara. These are the folks leading the modern ethical amanita market in the us. They work with sourcing families around the world. So they do extensive testing. They prepare everything carefully. No synthetics, no weird chemicals, just real natural amanita in a form that's gentle and beginner friendly. They have these 500 milligram capsules that are perfect for first timers. Most people take two or three to.

[Rachel Dratch]

Start, so like one to one and a half grams.

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

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[Rachel Dratch]

How much text is in this book? Like it's beautiful pictures. And then there's also like the interview with all the actors and the producer. Explain the book.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Yeah, I would say it's probably more pictures than text, but it's a lot of text. I mean it's 30,000 words, so that's a lot. And it's broken up into sections. I know what these books are like. I have a couple of them. So I'm like, you know, the introduction, the production design, like different sections for different and then interviews with every actor. I could get to, I couldn't get to all of them. The part that I was excited about, I mean I was excited about the whole thing. I was not blase about any of it. But I wanted to write a whole section on Mary Shelley and the Romantics, that generation, because it factors in. And I also knew Guillermo knew all that. I was afraid that someone was gonna be like, why do we have five or six pages on taking a carriage through war torn Europe? Like why? And they didn't touch it. And that for me is really the me chapter, you know what I mean? The rest is kind of obviously shining a spotlight on all these brilliant Artists and craftspeople who made this film.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yeah, I mean, I really noticed the sets and the shots of these, like, beautiful old castles. And also the production design of what.

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

This monster was going to look like.

[Rachel Dratch]

I thought was really fascinating, because we all picture Frankenberry, we picture Bolt and we picture young Frankenstein.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Of course.

[Rachel Dratch]

I mean, I thought they did a fantastic job of making him look beautiful, a. Like a monster or like a, you know, a fantastical creature. But also, the way he was patched together was so artfully done and I.

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

Just thought it was perfect.

[Sheila O'Malley]

I know.

[Rachel Dratch]

I couldn't imagine that, but then when you see it, you're like, oh, of course. This is how it should be.

[Sheila O'Malley]

I know.

[Irene Bremis]

So beautiful. He looked like powder, but at the same time, he was like this towering monster. But he had a lot of hue. I think there was a lot more humanity in the way that he looked than the other Frankenstein. Yeah, you know, we don't even. It's not Frankenstein, though. Frankenstein's the Doctor. We say Frankenstein, but he was the monster.

[Rachel Dratch]

Even though the real monster was Frankenstein, old thing. That's been children to us. We know Frankenstein is the monster. I mean, we know. What I meant by that was they say. Sorry. No, what they say is when the monster says you're the real monster to Frankenstein, the Doctor. That's what I meant by that. But, yes, we all know Dr. Frankenstein is the Frankenstein. I'm talking myself into a circle of Frankenstein's.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Well, because you'll get all the comments.

[Rachel Dratch]

Exactly.

[Irene Bremis]

Yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

Right. So do you want to tell us about the Mary Shelley of it all and the creation of the story? Was there absinthe involved? Is that true or is that a myth?

[Sheila O'Malley]

I would not be surprised if there was. If you think of it, she was a teenager. That's what's incredible. She was, like, 17, 18 when she wrote it.

[Rachel Dratch]

That's when I did my finest work, too, by the way.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

Yeah.

[Sheila O'Malley]

It's daunting to read it and think that she was. And she was basically a runaway. She fell in love with Percy Shelley, who was married, and they ran away together to Europe. And it was a scandal which she never really recovered from. She never really got back into society. But it was part of this, if you think of it like, you know, kids running away to Woodstock or joining a commune, that was kind of what was going on in the youthful movement at the time.

[Rachel Dratch]

What year is this? Ish.

[Sheila O'Malley]

This is 1816. Yeah, it came out in 1818, and they were coming out of the age of reason, where everything is logical and they just felt after decades and decades of war and revolution and the industrial revolution, that logic stinks. I mean, Edgar Allan Poe was a romantic, like with a capital R. He was part of that Woo.

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

Woo.

[Rachel Dratch]

There's woo.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Woo, yeah, there's a lot of supernatural. I mean, Wuthering Heights is really a ghost story. It starts with this ghost being like, let me back in, you know, so I don't want to bore people, but that's.

[Rachel Dratch]

No, this is the woo.

[Irene Bremis]

It's not boring.

[Rachel Dratch]

This is the woo of the woo that were cracking.

[Irene Bremis]

I was reading about her, you know.

[Rachel Dratch]

That you did research. Go on, go on.

[Irene Bremis]

This wasn't work for me. I love Guil Amro del Toro. I watch everything he's ever done.

[Rachel Dratch]

He threw the accent.

[Irene Bremis]

I threw in an accent. That's right, I threw. No, I love him so I love Frankenstein. But I was reading about Mary Shelley and I read somewhere that her idea for Frankenstein was spawned from a ghost. She had like a lucid dream, a nightmare actually. Yes, she had a nightmare that a pale faced young man was creating a monster. And she woke up and wrote Frankenstein. I think she was 19 when she wrote it. She wrote Frankenstein immediately after that dream. Did you read that?

[Sheila O'Malley]

Yeah. Well, she with her, I believe he was her boyfriend, not her husband yet. She and Percy Shelley were traveling across war torn Napoleon's Europe. Lord Byron, who was like the Elvis Presley of the Romantic movement, like he was just kind of fabulous looking, very famous, was living in a villa on Lake Geneva. And so they were like, let's go hang out with Byron again. This is like, let's go to San Francisco. It's 1969. So they rented a villa nearby and it was this very rainy, cold summer. So they didn't go outside all that much and they were indoors, all of. All of them. It was like a little commune. All kinds of rumors were going on back in England about what was going on in this house. And one dark and stormy night, Lord Byron suggested that they all write ghost stories. And everyone wrote ghost stories. And she had a mental block. And she wrote about this in her preface to the book. It's beautiful. She was kind of tormented by it, like, why can't I think of something? Why can't I? It's very relatable. And she went to bed kind of thinking about this and had this vision of this figure at the foot of her bed who was a created being. And she was filled with horror. I have it right here. She was. Yeah, with a vividness, my imagination unbidden, possessed and guided me, gifting the successive images that arose in my mind with a vividness far beyond the usual bounds of reverie.

[Rachel Dratch]

Ooh.

[Sheila O'Malley]

I saw with shut eyes the pale student of the unhallowed arts. So she knew this is what I'm going to write about.

[Irene Bremis]

Wow.

[Sheila O'Malley]

You know, she read books on chemistry for fun. She was very interested in, like, electricity. It was just a brand new type of concept. Guillermo said in one of my interviews with him, you know, this was at the time, kind of a high tech. It's like the first sci fi novel of like, you know, it's science based, but it's supernatural. So that's the genesis of it. And it was famous right away. I mean, she became the most famous of all of them because of Frankenstein.

[Irene Bremis]

She was a little badass.

[Rachel Dratch]

Oh, my gosh. First of all, I love that that came from a dream and that she also, like, very. You said relatable. Couldn't write it herself. And then it appeared in a dream. I love anytime that happens.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

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[Rachel Dratch]

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[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

And one of the things I'm doing is protecting my teeth while I sleep.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yes, confession. My name is Rachel, and I grind my teeth.

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

I know I've done it probably since childhood. I've even chipped a tooth once in my sleep.

[Rachel Dratch]

So that's why I use a very sexy night guard. But here's the thing. I kind of stopped using night guards.

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

After my dog ate about eight of them.

[Rachel Dratch]

And then I gave up, and I was like, you know what? I'm gonna. I'm gonna raw dog it here with my teeth. But then I found Remy, because, you know, if you get a night guard at the dentist, I don't know about.

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

You, if you've done this, they're upwards of $1,000.

[Rachel Dratch]

Then your dog eats one literally two weeks later. And then you go back and it's another, you know, 1500 bucks. So, yes, that's why I'm talking about Remy.

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

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[Rachel Dratch]

Also, what about like, the fact that she was a woman or a teen girl in terms of getting something published and seen and all that was it just like she was hanging with all these like honchos.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Her father was a publisher. She was kind of a Nepo baby. She had two famous parents, her father and revolutionary parents. Well, her mother died a couple days after giving birth to her. But her mother was like a feminist in the 1780s and wrote this book called Vindication of the Rights of Women, which is one of the earliest feminist classics. And her father was a publisher and a famous atheist who had like acolytes come and sit at his, you know, she grew up with like Samuel Coleridge coming over to dinner. So she was in that world. She found a publisher pretty, pretty quick.

[Rachel Dratch]

And then it just took off like wildfire.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Like it took off and immediately people were calling the monster Frankenstein. So this is a long tradition. And she was like, well, actually that's the doctor this will just connect to Guillermo is that she was little, there were plays and operas almost right away, which she hadn't signed off on. And so people were interpreting this as this terrifying, horrible creature who everyone agreed must be destroyed. But her point in the book was the creature, once he learned, is more intelligent, more sensitive, more self aware than his creator. And that what we would say now, like otherize people who are different because she, I read her journals and letters. She felt like the creature. She was the creature. She was saying, I why am I alone and wandering the earth? Her husband died a couple years after Frankenstein was published, so her sympathy was with the creature, which is often missed in adaptations. And Guillermo, of course, loves his monsters. The doctor is the monster very explicitly in Guillermo's version.

[Rachel Dratch]

So in the book, do we see that the doctor had been abused as a child, or is that something Guillermo added?

[Sheila O'Malley]

That's a Guillermo addition.

[Rachel Dratch]

I thought that was really cool because he seems so horrible, but he was treated so horribly.

[Sheila O'Malley]

It's the cycle.

[Irene Bremis]

Cycle of abuse.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Yeah, absolutely. So that's a Guillermo change. The father's kind of lovely. The girl Elizabeth is, like, adopted by his family, and they were promised to wed from childhood. And she's. She's a boring character. I mean, she's just kind of very pious and lovely, and nobody wants to see that. So he kind of, you know, Elizabeth is basically Mary Shelley, if you think about it.

[Irene Bremis]

Yes. Yes. I love that it is her. You're right. She was like a feminist in a way.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Oh, she totally was.

[Rachel Dratch]

So Elizabeth in the movie version is sort of.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Guillermo wanted Mary Shelley to be in it, basically, so he sort of created this period appropriate, you know, very religious woman, grew up in a convent, all this stuff. But was reading books on insects and was a scientist. She's a real scientist. Victor was more just a madman. I mean, I don't know.

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

Yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

Oh, my God. With all the scene where he's, like, piecing together all the bodies, they made it so, like, gnarly. And he was just like you said, they really brought out. Well, Guillermo. Guillermo del Toro, as Irene likes to say. No, but he really brought out the madness. At first, it just seemed like, I want to bend what we already know. But then when he's cutting up all these bodies, and then he seemed like a freaking crazy man. I thought they did a good job of that.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Yeah, for sure.

[Irene Bremis]

But I love that Sheila, you said that Shelley was that character. She was the muse for that character. Mia Goth brought it. She did such a great job portraying her. Loved it because, you know, in past iterations of Frankenstein, she's always portrayed as a wallflower, but they maintain who she would be at that time. But they really gave her the flair of a feminist, which was amazing. And I actually love that part, so it's amazing that you're saying this.

[Rachel Dratch]

Oh, can I say one other part that I loved?

[Sheila O'Malley]

Bring it.

[Rachel Dratch]

The old man was so good.

[Irene Bremis]

Me, too.

[Rachel Dratch]

I'm just watching this, like, okay, this isn't my usual type of movie. Mama. And then, like, it gets to that scene. Like, oh, my gosh, they made it so poignant and, like, sweet and kind. And that guy was such a good actor. What's his name? David.

[Sheila O'Malley]

David.

[Rachel Dratch]

David Bradley. I looked him up. Because I was like, this guy is amazing. He's 83 years old. And that scene is so good. And it's also kind of a departure from what you're. As you're watching. Meow, meow, meow. Bodies, meow, meow. Beating up.

[Sheila O'Malley]

And that's all from the book. And a lot of times, that section is just not as, like, Guillermo spends a lot of time in that cabin, you know?

[Irene Bremis]

Yes.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Cause that's when the creature reads, becomes human, grows. He's human.

[Irene Bremis]

It's like, don't judge a book by the COVID You know what I mean? And that's where we have so much cultural relevance. That's understated.

[Rachel Dratch]

You know, I. Really good point.

[Irene Bremis]

Well, thank you, sweetie. I woke up and I had my ginkgo.

[Rachel Dratch]

Irene is bringing the intellectual bent today.

[Irene Bremis]

Don't get used to it, sweetie.

[Rachel Dratch]

No, that's a.

[Irene Bremis]

Don't get used to it.

[Rachel Dratch]

That's a really good point about today's world.

[Irene Bremis]

Yeah. You know, Guillermo is just brilliant. There were so many things that I had to write down. Even the way that they ended it, he was like the creator, which to me is almost like an extension of God being the creator with hubris and then abandoning Adam, in a sense, when he was. You know what I mean? That biblical revelance.

[Rachel Dratch]

Are you teaching a college course on this later? Because now you're veering into religious symbolism, the Bible. I mean, this is. You're bringing the A game.

[Irene Bremis]

Well, no, but seriously, they were rooted in this at the time because everybody was very much Christian at the time. And I love that her dad was actually an atheist, which shows, like, there was rebellion and there was, like, some sort of dispute in terms of free thinking. And what you were just kind of grandfathered into think, you know, I can go on and on with it, because I love it so much, and I love the way they ended it, that the only way to let go of this angst was through forgiveness. He finally addressed him as father by acquiescing to all the things that he did wrong. And then he said, son. I cried at that part. When he said, right. Did you cry? Like, he was like, thank you, son. And he said, thank you, father.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yeah.

[Irene Bremis]

It was very touching.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Yeah. That's very. Also very Guillermo. There has to be some. In the book. There isn't any. I mean, he goes off into the ice, but he just kind of vanishes. You don't know what happens to him. Almost like he's still out there. That is sort of the supernatural, is that she's not ending it in a way that is really an ending. We can still see the creature out there. Where is he? I try to think, okay, maybe he's. Maybe he's living with the animals in the woods. Maybe he's okay, maybe he's, you know. And I think Guillermo definitely wanted to portray explicitly this breaking of the cycle of abuse. Yeah, it's very touching. And I thought Chica Balordi was just.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yeah.

[Sheila O'Malley]

So wonderful.

[Rachel Dratch]

You know, I talk about Ruffles on here from time to time.

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

Yes, Ruffles is another character on the.

[Rachel Dratch]

Woo Woo podcast here. And I love Ruffles.

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

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[Rachel Dratch]

I feel like we could have like three episodes with you because I have so many more questions. Just to reiterate, the book is called the Art and Making of Frankenstein. Yes Irene watches more horror than I do. She's more versed in it than I am.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Oh, okay.

[Rachel Dratch]

Because I know Frankenstein is not really horror per se, but I mean, I'll.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Just say about Frankenstein is that. And I think you can see it in the production design and the costumes is that it really. Guillermo did not want to place it in the horror genre, you know, and that has happened to him before, where he's, you know, his films are sometimes marketed into a genre when he's really doing melodrama, he's really doing a family melodrama. And when I talked to both Oscar Isaac and him, I mean, Oscar Isaac said, I don't think it's a mistake or an act coincidence that Guillermo del Toro hired Oscar Isaac Hernandez to be his Frankenstein. This very sort of white European story with these Latin men coming into it.

[Irene Bremis]

Exactly.

[Sheila O'Malley]

And bringing the telenovela, which they both said this is like a telenovela, which is interesting because you could have made it absolutely as though it took place exactly in the period, but they didn't. It was, like, fantastical and colorful. So, yeah, I don't. I don't see it as horror. I see it as a little gross. I see it as, you know, as gory.

[Irene Bremis]

But it's almost romantic, too, in a sense. It's like a love story because it's predicated on her relationship with the poet. I forget his name, but there is, like, a love story with him and Mia Goth, too, or the character, you know.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Absolutely. You know, she's looking for a man that's not basically just passing her around. I mean, she's basically just passed to the brother. And then, you know, she's not really making choices about her romantic life, but she chooses when she sees the creature, like, oh, this is so. Yeah, I think it's romantic. I like horror. You know, I get really scared, though. I mean, I think you're supposed to. But sometimes, like, I was really scared by weapons.

[Rachel Dratch]

I didn't see weapons.

[Irene Bremis]

Oh, my gosh.

[Sheila O'Malley]

I was really scared by it.

[Rachel Dratch]

The most horror, I go, well, Irene and I saw get out together in the movie theater. Oh, yeah, that was a fun ride. I mean, I guess it's a horror movie, but with some comical moments to it. But, yeah, when I'm watching a horror movie, and I never have seen any of the gory ones, like Friday the 13th, any of those, but when I'm watching just even a slight horror movie, I'm, like, curled up in my seat, grabbing someone's arm, digging through their.

[Irene Bremis]

My hand.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yes.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Has anyone seen the Bobble No.

[Irene Bremis]

Oh, my gosh. That scared the shit out of me.

[Sheila O'Malley]

I saw that at Lincoln center at the little theater there. And halfway through, I remember thinking, I can't take much more of this. I literally am not able to handle it. It's brilliant.

[Irene Bremis]

Brilliant, brilliant. Brilliant.

[Rachel Dratch]

Is the Babadook a monster? Said someone's mom.

[Irene Bremis]

No spoilers.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

When did that come out?

[Sheila O'Malley]

2013, maybe 10 years. Yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay. Okay.

[Sheila O'Malley]

And it's Australian. Australian. First film. The filmmaker. But that, to me, is maybe the scare. Really?

[Irene Bremis]

First film?

[Sheila O'Malley]

Yeah, it's her first film. It was so good.

[Rachel Dratch]

Wait, Irene, I have a question for you. What's the scariest movie you've ever seen?

[Irene Bremis]

For me, hands down, it was the Exorcist. I'm sorry? When I saw the Exorcist, because I was raised Greek Orthodox, which is, like, Catholic, and they always threaten the devil possessing you. I couldn't go to sleep at all.

[Rachel Dratch]

How old were you?

[Irene Bremis]

I actually snuck and saw it when it was on. 11 years old I was. And I never got over it. Eleven. Eleven. Yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay.

[Irene Bremis]

Terrifying.

[Sheila O'Malley]

I would say that's similar. It ruined my childhood.

[Irene Bremis]

Mine, too.

[Sheila O'Malley]

I think I saw it at a slumber party when nobody was monitoring what I was doing. I had a similar as a Catholic kid. It was so real, also that the girl in it was, like, my age.

[Irene Bremis]

Exactly. Very good point. Very, very good point.

[Sheila O'Malley]

There was a way in for me into this person.

[Rachel Dratch]

Oh, that's good. That was scary, Irene. What about as an adult? Does another one come to mind?

[Irene Bremis]

Babadook scared the crap out of me. Yeah. I soiled myself with babadook. And it's embarrassing to say that Babadooked in your pants. We're gonna.

[Rachel Dratch]

Sheila, what's the scariest you've seen? Is that it?

[Sheila O'Malley]

I mean, the Babadook.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay, okay.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Well, I mean, the Exorcist when I was a kid, but as an adult, the Babadook, I remember, and I've shown it to friends since and enjoy their reactions. But that first time, I remember thinking I was traumatized by it and I'm old at this point, I just thought.

[Rachel Dratch]

Of the scariest slash worst movie I've ever seen. Oh, my God. When I think about it, I just got chills because I hate it so much. And I wish. I wish I could unsee it. What is it, Henry? Portrait of a Serial Killer. Did you see that?

[Sheila O'Malley]

Yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

Fucking horrific.

[Sheila O'Malley]

You know what? What haunts me?

[Rachel Dratch]

We're gonna say the same thing. I have chills.

[Sheila O'Malley]

The snapping neck.

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

Yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

The kid.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Oh, the kid. For me, it was the snapping of the necks.

[Rachel Dratch]

Lot of snapping necks. Horrible. Don't see it. I don't even wanna speak its name. It's almost like talking about the devil. I don't even wanna say this movie and have anyone go look at it. Out of curiosity. Trust me, do not look.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Yeah, also that it was, like, so low budget. It looked real.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yes. And also, I was living in Chicago at the time, and there's scenes of him, like, under, like, Wacker Drive, which is very creepy.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

Then you. I'll never look at Wacker Drive the same.

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

Anyway.

[Rachel Dratch]

Ooh, I gotta cleanse myself.

[Irene Bremis]

I gotta cleanse myself.

[Rachel Dratch]

Now, do you want to do a quick. Ask me 10 movies, famous movies that I should have seen, and just see if I've seen them? But I know I'm putting you on the spot. This can be Irene and Sheila Wide.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Just think of famous movies. Have you seen, like, the Godfather?

[Rachel Dratch]

I've seen the Godfather.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Okay. All right. How about Citizen Kane?

[Rachel Dratch]

Oh, my God, I've seen that.

[Irene Bremis]

Me, too.

[Rachel Dratch]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Casablanca.

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

I've seen that.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay, you know what?

[Sheila O'Malley]

Okay, what do I like to do?

[Rachel Dratch]

No. Cause I love you.

[Sheila O'Malley]

What do I need to.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay, no, let me tell you why I've seen this, because I did take a film class in college, and that's where I saw Casablanca. I saw 2001. I saw Blah, blah, blah. But sorry. And I know I'm totally putting on the spot. I didn't prep you, Irene. You can chime in, too.

[Irene Bremis]

I'm just as bad because I never see any of the Oscar contenders.

[Rachel Dratch]

Really?

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

Oh, me neither.

[Irene Bremis]

Ever.

[Rachel Dratch]

Oh, how about if I just list movies I haven't seen?

[Irene Bremis]

Okay. Oh, we'll be here all night.

[Rachel Dratch]

People get mad about. Okay. I've never seen Jaws.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Okay.

[Rachel Dratch]

People get angry.

[Irene Bremis]

Oh, okay. I'm angry.

[Rachel Dratch]

Oh, my God. I've never seen Caddyshack. And I'm a comedian.

[Irene Bremis]

What?

[Rachel Dratch]

I know. See, I've never seen.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Have you seen Groundhog Day?

[Rachel Dratch]

I've seen Groundhog Day.

[Brooklyn Adams]

Oh, thank you.

[Rachel Dratch]

I haven't seen Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Oh, I haven't seen. I know. I haven't seen any war movies because I can't see war movies.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Okay.

[Rachel Dratch]

Private Ryan. Born on the 4th of July.

[Irene Bremis]

Like Platoon.

[Rachel Dratch]

Platoon. All those.

[Sheila O'Malley]

How about, like, Sophie's Choice or something?

[Rachel Dratch]

Haven't seen that.

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

What?

[Rachel Dratch]

Cause I skip, like, Heavy Duty.

[Sheila O'Malley]

That's really heavy Duty.

[Rachel Dratch]

Cause I used to make myself see all those Oscar movies.

[Irene Bremis]

Yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

And now I'm like, you know what? You don't have to See these?

[Irene Bremis]

I agree.

[Rachel Dratch]

Take that, Academy.

[Sheila O'Malley]

You don't. You don't need to see them.

[Rachel Dratch]

Sheila, imagine you've seen absolutely everything. But what's a movie people would be surprised that you haven't seen? And Irene, what's a really big movie that you haven't seen that everyone gives you shit that you haven't seen?

[Irene Bremis]

Well, what are the Oscar contenders for the past decade? I'm just kidding. No, I'm really not. Anyway, I also feel like Rachel, life is depressing, so I'm giving myself permission not to watch the heavy drama anymore.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Makes sense.

[Irene Bremis]

Okay. And we discussed this in a prior show that the reason why I like horror so much is it takes me out of my element when it comes to comedy. I'm not judging myself or making any. Comparing and despairing, you know, like, why didn't I think of this? Right. If I'm seeing a comedy and when I'm watching drama, it just puts me in a state of paralysis, which I can't afford to go into a deeper state of paralysis. So I like watching horror because, you know, it just scares the shit out of me, which is something that I can live with. But movies I haven't seen a lot of the Star Wars.

[Rachel Dratch]

Oh, yeah.

[Irene Bremis]

You know, when I was young, I watched Star wars, but I haven't followed up.

[Rachel Dratch]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I've never seen Lord of the Rings. That's not good. What I mean is, that's not good that I haven't seen it. I don't mean the movie's not good.

[Irene Bremis]

Right.

[Sheila O'Malley]

There's so many other things to see in this life.

[Rachel Dratch]

Well, Sheila, what's a movie that people would be surprised you've never seen?

[Sheila O'Malley]

Friday the 13th Part 2.

[Rachel Dratch]

1. 1 was enough.

[Irene Bremis]

Well, you're not missing much, Sheila.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Maybe. Maybe like a lot. A lot of, like, big foreign films from, like, the 60s. Like, I have had to do a lot of catch up.

[Rachel Dratch]

So you were not a film major in school and you didn't.

[Sheila O'Malley]

No. So I'd be like, okay, I should probably know a little bit about Ingmar Bergman.

[Rachel Dratch]

Like True Foe and like that.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Yeah. And then I got into it.

[Rachel Dratch]

Jean.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Yeah, right. Who's incredible, by the way. But, yeah, so I had to kind of do some catch up.

[Rachel Dratch]

All right, well, Sheila, I hope sometime we can have you back to talk more horror.

[Irene Bremis]

Oh, my gosh, yes.

[Rachel Dratch]

Sheila, this was so awesome.

[Irene Bremis]

It was amazing.

[Rachel Dratch]

Irene, you really brought your A game. You really did. I'm serious. Irene is going to be teaching a college course on this.

[Irene Bremis]

Sign up now.

[Rachel Dratch]

My class okay. Had a block. Sheila. We do a little pendulum reading at the end. Did you see that?

[Sheila O'Malley]

Yes, of course. I rack my brains.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay, good. So yes or no question. We say, don't ask anything that's gonna bum you out if it doesn't give the answer you want. And here's how it works. So we both have a pendulum, and it swings if I say, okay, show me yes. Okay. Then it's gonna swing up and back, and then if I say, show me no, then it's gonna swing side to side. That's how it says yes or no. I know, it's crazy. Irene introduced me to this, and she's very good practitioner of it. So anyway, think on your question and we'll get the answer, and then you're gonna reveal it.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Okay, I. I have my question.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay, good. Okay, ready?

[Irene Bremis]

Here we go.

[Rachel Dratch]

Okay, here we go.

[Irene Bremis]

Well, I got it immediately. Okay. My answer.

[Rachel Dratch]

I got a yes. We both got a yes.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

That's great.

[Irene Bremis]

What is it?

[Rachel Dratch]

What is it?

[Sheila O'Malley]

What's my question?

[Rachel Dratch]

Yeah.

[Irene Bremis]

Yeah.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Will I live in this apartment a long time? Will I stay where I'm staying and I really want to stay here, so.

[Irene Bremis]

Oh, amazing.

[Sheila O'Malley]

I'm enjoying the yes.

[Rachel Dratch]

All right, good. We like when people enjoy the answer.

[Irene Bremis]

Yes.

[Rachel Dratch]

All right. Hunker down, because you're going to be there.

[Irene Bremis]

You're going to be there for a while, which also says that you're going to have a long life because you're going to be there a long time. Okay.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Okay, That's. Yeah.

[Rachel Dratch]

Irene's throwing that in because she likes you a lot. I've never heard her extend someone's longevity, but that was good, too. All right. Oh, my God, Sheila. Thank you. Oh, wait. Now, where can people find you on, like, Instagram or, like, where can people find you?

[Sheila O'Malley]

Instagram is the real Sheila Kathleen. You can find me there.

[Rachel Dratch]

The real Sheila.

[Sheila O'Malley]

The real Sheila Kathleen. I have a blog, sheilaomalley.com I review movies every week at rogerevart.com Perfect. That's my life. All right, thank you both.

[Rachel Dratch]

Thank you so much. So much fun. We love talking to you.

[Sheila O'Malley]

And the Babadook.

[Rachel Dratch]

And the Babadook.

[Sheila O'Malley]

Long live the Babadook.

[Irene Bremis]

Oh, man.

[Sheila O'Malley]

No.

[Rachel Dratch]

And you can find me on Instagram at Ray Dratch. That's R A E Dratch. And you can find Irene at IreneBremis. That's B R E M I S Remis. And thanks for listening. Thanks for joining me on this journey into the world of woo.

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

Woo. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe. Wherever you get. Get your podcasts. Woo Woo with Rachel Dratch is a.

[Rachel Dratch]

Q Code production executive produced by David.

[Podcast Host Rachel Dratch]

Henning and Steve Wilson produced by Alexa Gabrielle Ramirez, edited by Will Tendi.