Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: Work for Humans
Host: Dart Lindsley
Guest: Dr. Jan Golembiewski
Episode: Psychological Design: How Environments Predict Our Psychology, Behavior, and Ability to Thrive (Revisited)
Date: January 6, 2026

Episode Overview

In this deeply engaging conversation, Dart Lindsley talks with architect and design psychologist Dr. Jan Golembiewski about how the design of environments shapes our mental and emotional well-being. They explore the principle of "salutogenesis"—designing spaces not merely to avoid harm, but to actually create health and thriving. Through vivid examples and candid stories, Jan explains the real impacts of architecture on human psychology, offering lessons that extend well beyond buildings and into the design of workplaces and organizational systems.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Setting the Frame: Meaning, Meaninglessness, and Salutogenesis

[00:03-03:30]

• Jan: People have an innate drive to find meaning; the real peril is when environments are suffused with meaninglessness, as often experienced in institutional settings like prisons or mental health facilities.

  • “What’s so much more important is getting rid of meaninglessness...you’ll never find meaninglessness quite so evident as we find it in some aspects of the built environment...” (Jan, 00:03)

• Dart: Jan introduced “salutogenic architecture”—spaces that make people healthier and happier, not by focusing on illness and remediation, but by supporting thriving.

2. Understanding Salutogenesis—Origins and Core Ideas

[03:30-08:58]

• Background: Developed by Aaron Antonovsky in the 1970s (inspired by Viktor Frankl), salutogenesis is about fostering health, resilience, and thriving, rather than merely treating disease.

• Three Core Resources/Elements:

  • Manageability: Having resources to handle life (akin to autonomy)
  • Comprehensibility: Being able to make sense of the world (akin to mastery)
  • Meaningfulness: Experiencing purpose (affective resilience)

    “People who have meaningfulness in their existence have incredible resilience. But even people who have a way of being, a passage through life, know how to negotiate it, have greatly improved resilience.”
    (Jan, 06:16)

• Model Analogy: These resources can somewhat compensate for each other; however, insufficiency in any dimension can lead to failure/thriving.

3. Beyond Fixing Problems: Creating Environments for Health

[09:22–13:27]

• Jan: Merely adding resources is less impactful than removing elements that sap manageability, comprehensibility, or meaning.
• Dart: Salutogenesis is not just about “removing food poisoning from the menu” but making the “food delicious”—design that goes beyond avoiding harm to proactively creating joy and engagement.

4. Workspaces, Institutions, and the Power of Design

[13:27–16:54]

• Jan: The physical environment of places like dementia care homes or psychiatric hospitals can influence staff satisfaction and patient health. Engagement with the environment helps reduce difficult behaviors and increases well-being for both patients and caregivers.

5. Practical Examples of Salutogenic Architecture

[16:54–20:44]

• Nature views and interactions with animals are a start, but salutogenic design requires much more: creating affordances for positive activity, purposeful engagement, and diverse choices that foster mastery and meaning.
• Manageability is “easiest to abstract and design for” (accessibility, usability).
• Comprehensibility requires environments that users can “master”—and want to engage with.

“Give them better things to do...so they go, ‘Oh, leave? Can I first finish this?’ ...There’s a lot to do here. I don’t want to leave.”
(Jan, 19:28)

6. Affordances: What Are They? Why Do They Matter?

[21:26–24:37]

• Dart: Affordances are “opportunities to act that are apparent to you”—they enable (or constrain) potential behavior and even contemplation.
• Jan: Affordances include both physical and emotional/spiritual opportunities, are partly innate, partly learned, and always structured by environment.

“If you’re building a prison, the affordances tend to work the other way—they’re opportunities to make people feel smaller, disempowered, to feel guilty.”
(Jan, 23:57)

7. Choice, Autonomy, and the Role of Inhibitory/Excitatory Forces

[24:37–32:54]

• Choice is deeply intertwined with autonomy but richer, structuring our very sense of self and possibility.
• Settings “invite” or “restrict” behaviors through both physical and social cues. This ecological view of perception ties back to studies of how children play differently depending on environment.

“Behavior settings…are structured by expectations and design, even if that design is natural, where there are certain behaviors that are associated with that place.”
(Jan, 32:01)

8. How Environments Give Permission (or Create Barriers) for Behavior

[32:54–35:01]

• The setting—whether a castle or a playground—can provide an “alibi” for new kinds of behavior. Minor environmental cues (like being in a fancy hotel) powerfully shape our conduct and emotional state.

9. Can Salutogenic Design Be Measured?

[35:01–36:14]

• Some studies show measurable effects, such as 30% faster recovery and 38% lower mortality for patients in sunlit rooms.

10. Safety, Suicide Prevention, and Positive Affordances

[36:14–41:48]

• Overly removing all means of harm in institutions may inadvertently reinforce negative narratives; it is crucial to replace removed affordances (e.g., for self-harm) with positive, engaging ones.

“Whenever you take away an opportunity, you need to put another one, a better one in place. Two better ones. Give them a choice, and then they're not focusing on that [negative].”
(Jan, 41:41)

11. Narrative Context: Architecture as a Stage Set

[41:48–46:22]

• Built environments create “narrative” backdrops that shape how people experience and interpret their own lives.
• Locking doors, for example, signals a narrative of fear or scarcity versus openness.

12. Design Contextuality and the Skills of Salutogenic Designers

[46:22–49:34]

• There are no universal design rules; each project, population, and context requires specific, empathetic, and intuitive approaches.
• The best designers are those who care, have a deep artistic and empathetic approach, and intuitively sense (and test) what will foster thriving.

13. Architectural Details: Mess, Life, and Tolerance

[49:34–51:10]

• Jan critiques sterile hard white surfaces that are intolerant of ordinary life; true “livable space” tolerates—and even invites—mess, imperfection, and real human activity.

14. The Battle of Values: Money vs. Human-Centered Architecture

[51:29–54:03]

• Discussing Christopher Alexander, Jan agrees that money-driven design often leads to unlivable spaces, but also notes that spending more money doesn’t guarantee salutogenic value.

15. The Creative Power of Constraints

[54:03–57:54]

• Constraints—of budget, space, or requirements—can fuel creativity.

16. Final Reflections: Purpose, Cost, and the Soul of Architecture

[58:18–62:14]

• Jan feels compelled to do his work not for personal gain, but to share knowledge and contribute meaningfully. There can be a tension—the best designers place the client’s needs at the center and resist self-indulgence; egotistical architecture often leads to soulless outcomes.

“I have to take a backseat when I'm designing. I have to let my clients be more important than me. And for any kind of artist, but particularly somebody like an architect, that can be a little tough…”
(Jan, 60:50)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Meaning in Design:
  “You don’t necessarily have to provide opportunities for people to find meaningfulness in their own lives...What’s so much more important is getting rid of meaninglessness.”
  (Jan, 00:03)

• On Affordances:
  “Affordances don’t just afford action. They also afford contemplation.”
  (Jan, 21:59)

• On Constraints and Creativity:
  “Constraints can be a beautiful creative source.”
  (Jan, 57:54)

• On Egotistical Architecture:
  “...doing that kind of soulless architecture leaves you with a bit of a soulless life.”
  (Jan, 61:52)

• On Narrative in Environments:
  “When we’re designing the environment, we are designing stage sets, where every architectural environment is a stage set. That’s the way I like to see it.”
  (Jan, 41:54)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | |------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:03 | Meaning, Meaninglessness, and Institutions | | 03:30 | Salutogenesis: Origin, Theory, and Core Elements | | 09:22 | Importance of Removing Harmful Elements, Not Just Adding Resources | | 13:27 | Real World Impacts: Dementia Home Example | | 16:54 | Salutogenic Architecture in Practice | | 21:26 | Defining and Illustrating Affordances | | 24:37 | Affordances, Choice, Autonomy in Design | | 27:53 | Behavior Settings and Ecological Perception | | 35:01 | Measuring the Impact of Salutogenic Design | | 36:14 | Sunlit Rooms, Suicide Prevention, and Replacement of Negative Affordances | | 41:48 | Narrative Context – How Buildings Tell Stories | | 46:22 | Contextuality and the Skills of Master Designers | | 49:34 | Architectural Details: Making Spaces Tolerant of Real Life | | 51:29 | Battle for the Life and Beauty of Architecture: Money vs. Human Values | | 54:03 | Constraints Driving Creativity | | 58:18 | Purposeful Work, Cost, and the Soul of the Architect |

Recommended Resources & Where to Find Jan

• Website: psychological.design (66:19)
• Search “Jan Golembiewski”: Hundreds of articles online, including works on architecture, psychology, and an autobiography on Spotify.
• Book: “Magic”

Closing Thoughts

This episode is a masterclass in the psychological dimensions of architecture and design—rich with insights and practical analogies for anyone who shapes environments, whether physical or organizational. Jan and Dart’s conversation frames a vision of work and space that aspires to thrive, not merely survive: through empathy, affordance, choice, narrative, and beauty.

For listeners designing workplaces or organizational systems, the lesson is clear: meaningful, human-centered environments don’t happen by accident—they result from thoughtful removal of negativity, intentional provision of choice, and a deep commitment to supporting people’s capacity not just to work, but to flourish.

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