Podcast Summary: "Workflow Friction: The Missing Link in Work Design and AI Transformation" — Work For Humans

Host: Dart Lindsley
Guest: Stephanie Denino, Head of Advisory at FOUNT and Partner at TI People
Date: December 2, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the pervasive issue of workflow friction—the unnecessary hurdles and inefficiencies that impede meaningful work within organizations. Stephanie Denino shares her experience helping leaders identify, measure, and eliminate friction, emphasizing how intentional workflow design can unlock capacity, energize employees, and drive organizational outcomes. The conversation explores the critical distinctions between work friction and workflow friction, the evolution of HR’s role in workflow optimization, the impact of language on change management, and why addressing friction is pivotal for successful AI transformation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Is Workflow Friction? (04:53)

• Definition: Denino defines workflow friction as any unnecessary obstacle that drains employees' energy without adding value.
• Examples:
  • Classic: Excessive approval steps for simple tasks (06:28).
  • Surprising: Call center workers feeling unable to take bathroom breaks due to micro-managed time (07:08).
• Notable Quote:
  • “Friction is the tax you'll pay when work is poorly designed.” — Stephanie Denino [00:03] & [41:22]
• Impacts: Friction causes frustration, waste, slowness, and makes work feel disrespectful and disengaging for staff (05:32).

2. Types of Workflow & Friction Scope (10:03)

• Central Services Workflows: Owned by functions like HR, IT, procurement—think hiring, purchasing, budgeting (11:02).
• Role-Specific Workflows: Tasks specific to one’s job (e.g., a nurse administering medication, a developer pushing code).
• Friction Exists Both Within and Beyond the Workplace: Denino includes issues like commuting under workflow friction if they impact the ultimate goal (08:56).

3. Ownership, Responsibility & Organization (13:37)

• Who Owns Workflow Friction?
  • No single owner for all friction; responsibility is decentralized.
  • Increasingly, CHROs (Chief Human Resources Officers) are well-placed to influence both central and role-specific workflows due to AI-driven transformation pressures (14:50).
• Notable Quote:
  • “No one owns all workflows...you have to have the people who own them at the table.” — Stephanie Denino [13:37]
• 'Friction Fighting' Teams: Some firms now have internal cross-functional teams dedicated to identifying and reducing friction ("friction fighting teams") [20:18].

4. Language and Mental Models (27:37)

• Language Shapes Engagement:
  • Using workflow rather than work or journey makes the issue more concrete and actionable (28:10).
  • Experience work is seen as optional and costly, whereas addressing workflow friction is crucial and outcome driven (30:07).
  • “The right word brings people to the party and the wrong words has you wondering if we'll ever gain any traction.” — Stephanie Denino [28:10]
• Difference with Process Thinking:
  • Process optimization often misses the first-person experience, focusing on outputs rather than what it feels like to be "in the traffic" (36:26).

5. Measuring & Categorizing Friction (21:25, 24:00)

• Friction isn’t only about effort—it’s also about efficiency, satisfaction, and “time well spent” (24:00).
• Different workflows require different optimization logics: Some should have time spent minimized (e.g. timesheets), others maximized for value (e.g. career conversations) (24:52).
• Quote:
  • “We’re capturing many, many dimensions that are meant to decompose what it feels like to perform in any given workflow.” — Stephanie Denino [22:15]

6. Selling Change: Business Case vs. Human Case (40:59, 44:22)

• Skeptical COOs: Some leaders focus only on outcomes, disregarding employee sentiment: “I don't care what employees think about their work. I will only trust data that comes from systems.” — Anonymous COO via Denino [39:11]
• Counterpoint: Ample evidence connects well-designed work to higher business performance, lower churn, and happier employees (40:59).
• Tactical Approach: To win buy-in, Denino frames work optimization in terms of tangible business outcomes first, then human benefits as an added bonus (46:07).
• Notable Exchange:
  • Dart: “It is wrong to neglect the needs of anybody. It is wrong to treat people as instruments of production.” [44:31]

7. Product Thinking & HR as Product Teams (48:10)

• Work as a Product: There's confusion around what the “product” is in organizational/product management terms (is it people, HR service, experience, actual work tasks?) [50:02].
• Methodology Value: Regardless, bringing customer-centric, iterative, and outcome-driven product principles to workflow design is transformative (50:19).

8. Workflow Friction & AI Transformation (51:06)

• Current Pitfalls: Most failed AI pilots stumble not over technical barriers but because the tech is poorly integrated into existing (often friction-filled) workflows (51:28).
• Case Study:
  • Large media company tried adding AI for developers, but progress stalled until they first streamlined the workflow and reduced role complexity from 11 to 6 (54:00).
• “Adoption is an experience challenge.” — Stephanie Denino [56:12]
  • Successful AI adoption is user-driven and experience-focused, not just a process or mandate from above.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Respect & Friction:
  • “It makes more work for me. It's disrespectful.” — Stephanie Denino [05:32]
• On Workflow Language:
  • “[Saying 'workflow friction'] is the difference between people creating large scaled influence...versus being irrelevant.” — Stephanie Denino [31:20]
• On False Dichotomy (Work/Life Balance):
  • “When you overwork, you under live.” — Stephanie Denino quoting Bree Groff [59:08]
• Stephanie’s Motivation:
  • “I hire my job to push people in their thinking...and to achieve great things with people I enjoy.” — Stephanie Denino [57:28]

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Friction Defined, with Examples: [00:03]–[08:28]
• Types of Workflow / Scope of Friction: [10:03]–[13:07]
• Ownership and Decentralization: [13:37]–[18:59]
• Friction Fighting Teams & Measurement: [20:18]–[24:00]
• Time Well Spent vs. Wasted: [24:00]–[26:40]
• Language & Mental Models: [27:37]–[36:26]
• First-hand Experience vs. Output Metrics: [36:26]–[40:26]
• Winning Buy-in—Economic vs. Human Arguments: [40:57]–[48:10]
• Product Thinking in HR: [48:10]–[51:06]
• Workflow Friction & AI Transformation: [51:06]–[55:16]
• Listener Q&A (Stephanie’s Job and Costs): [57:19]–[61:32]

Tone & Language

Stephanie Denino and Dart Lindsley maintain a thoughtful, practical, and occasionally provocative tone, blending analytical rigor with a deep commitment to more human-centered work design. Both value clear language, business impact, and the need to make change “mainstream” by meeting leaders where they are.

Conclusion & Takeaways

• Workflow friction is real and costly, impacting business performance and employee experience alike.
• Language matters: Framing challenges in terms that resonate with business outcomes is vital for change.
• Workflow design must be intentional, user-focused, and iterative—especially to unlock the promised gains from AI.
• Ownership of workflow friction is decentralized; empowering workflow “owners” and friction-fighting teams is key.
• In the end: “Friction is the tax you pay when work is poorly designed.” [41:22]

Find Stephanie on LinkedIn for more updates and connect with her on intentional work and workflow design.