Podcast Summary

Work in Progress with Sophia Bush

Episode: Ex-MAGA Carter Brown – Part 2
Date: March 27, 2026
Host: Sophia Bush
Guest: Carter Brown

Overview

In this vulnerable and honest conversation, Sophia Bush sits down with Carter Brown, a former MAGA supporter, to discuss Carter’s process of deconstructing her political and religious beliefs, the personal cost of leaving a tight-knit ideological community, and her ongoing journey of self-reflection and activism. This follow-up episode delves deeper into Carter's marriage, her shifting faith, and the ways she is attempting to make amends, educate others, and raise her children differently. Themes of accountability, healing, social justice, and personal transformation run throughout the episode.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Deconstructing Beliefs within Marriage

Timestamps: [04:59–07:46]

• Sophia asks how Carter’s journey of deconstruction impacts her marriage, given her husband grew up in a progressive home but converted to Christianity to marry her.
  • “He grew up in a progressive left-leaning home...When he asked my dad for my hand in marriage, that's when he became a Christian. My dad converted him that day." (Carter, [05:30])
• Carter shares the difficulty of diverging spiritual paths; her husband remains deeply committed to faith while she questions foundational beliefs.
  • Carter: “We're just going opposite directions.” ([07:18])
  • She discusses her husband facing a “professional ego death,” signaling change and growth.

2. Stories and Media That Prompted Change

Timestamps: [07:46–10:27]

• Carter credits documentaries and podcasts with helping both her and her husband shift perspective:
  • “Eternal Theater”—helped debunk hell and explore its historical origins as a control mechanism.
    • “You can just listen to it... it lays it out historically, like how man created this idea.” (Carter, [09:10])
  • “Sins of Our Father”—created by a former Trump voter, it explores racism’s deep roots and personal deconstruction.
    • “...after watching that documentary, the credits rolled, and he was like, well, I just learned a lot, and I understand why you feel the way that you feel.” (Carter, [10:09])
• Sophia recommends “Origin” (Ava DuVernay, about Isabel Wilkerson's Caste) and “Religion for Atheists” (Alain de Botton) as further context on systems and faith traditions ([11:46–15:46]).

3. Systems, Power, and Oppression

Timestamps: [11:16–15:46; 22:17–24:15]

• Sophia discusses how systems of oppression are constructed and perpetuated, particularly around money and ownership.
  • “We subjugate everybody for money, for money. Like, it's so antithetical to every good faith tradition.” ([13:42])
• She notes historical acknowledgment of transgender and two-spirit people in sacred traditions versus modern evangelical scapegoating.
• Both agree that waking up to these realities is a painful but necessary process.

4. Why Many Ex-MAGA Don’t Confront Deeper Bigotry

Timestamps: [21:05–24:15; 22:17–24:15]

• Sophia asks why some people leave MAGA but do not do the deeper work of confronting racism or homophobia.
• Carter responds:
  • “They haven't deconstructed that the left is not...the enemy. Y'all caught on to it before we did... It's hard for me to know—I don't have a blueprint, because not everyone's doing it the way that I’m doing it.” ([22:17–23:12])
• She emphasizes the importance of conversations with a diverse range of people as key to breaking down preconceptions.

5. Making Amends and Giving Back

Timestamps: [26:26–28:05]

• Sophia asks about Carter’s process of atonement and outreach.
• Carter explains she started posting online to cope with depression but soon realized her content was for others, offering hope to those still inside MAGA.
  • “I am monetarily giving back. I am meeting with Black candidates in Georgia to help elevate them because I now have a platform...” ([27:38])
• Sophia underscores that Carter can reach women and audiences Sophia cannot:
  • “There are women who will listen to you about those candidates who won’t listen to me...I want to encourage you to keep trying.” ([28:05])

6. Seeds of Doubt and the Nature of Change

Timestamps: [29:45–30:56]

• Carter believes real change comes not from facts but from inner realizations:
  • “They will only hear the truth when they need to hear the truth. The truth cannot be told. It can only be realized and it will only be realized when someone’s ready.” ([29:45])
• She notes that public activism and the persistence of others help plant critical seeds of doubt for future change.

7. Disinformation, Distraction, and Justifying Harm

Timestamps: [36:09–43:48]

• Sophia and Carter discuss the prevalence of distraction tactics in right-wing media and the difficulty of breaking through to communities still inside.
• Carter describes slow realization about projects like Project 2025 and the challenge of breaking through insular information bubbles.
• Carter shares an experience standing against a KKK rally and facing backlash from her community, with many insisting it was “fake news.”
  • Carter: “The amount of white on black crime is... fake news. It's not real.” ([40:20])
• They touch upon the phenomenon of willful ignorance and how cult-like dynamics shape group thinking.
  • “I grew up in fear-based control, indoctrination. Like, I just now can say all that, like, it not trigger me in any way.” (Carter, [43:17])

8. The Journey Ahead—Hope, Healing, and Cycle Breaking

Timestamps: [49:23–56:32]

• Carter shares her hope for peace and collective awakening:
  • “I feel with every fiber of my being... change is happening. Change will happen.” ([49:23])
• Sophia and Carter discuss the importance of earning trust, feeling like "no man's land" between worlds, and the difficulty but necessity of breaking cycles.
• Carter speaks powerfully about her motivation for her children:
  • “My children have a spark in them and a shine so bright that I know if I stayed down on that, they would be dulled.” ([55:39])
  • She recounts her sister’s dream: “It ends with me. With my sister, it ends in this generation. And I’m really thankful for that.” ([55:58])
• Sophia broadens to the larger cultural struggle, noting how conservative ideologies attempt to "swing back" and roll back generational progress, especially regarding women’s autonomy ([56:32]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Carter Brown on realizing indoctrination:

  “I indoctrinated him. ... He’s the one who started questioning Trump before I did.” ([05:30])

• On systems and control:

  “MAGa and evangelical Christianity go like this. ... The house of cards fell for me when I debunked hell.” ([08:35])

• On activism and evolution:

  “I am a civil rights activist, and I will die being a civil rights activist, and that’s what I want to do, and that’s who I believe I am.” ([09:57])

• Sophia on systems of oppression:

  “We subjugate everybody for money, for money. Like, it's so antithetical to every good faith tradition.” ([13:42])

• Carter on the irreducible nature of truth change:

  “The truth cannot be told. It can only be realized and it will only be realized when someone’s ready.” ([29:45])

• On the unique power of her voice:

  “There are women who will listen to you... who won’t listen to me.” (Sophia, [28:05])

• Cycle breaking for her children:

  “My children have a spark in them ... if I stayed down on that, they would be dulled.” (Carter, [55:39]) “It ends with me. With my sister, it ends in this generation. And I’m really thankful for that.” ([55:58])

• On being a "buffalo" in the storm:

  “I keep on using the analogy that I’m a buffalo. Like, I’m just going through the storm.” (Carter, [44:00])

Important Segment Timestamps

• Deconstruction in Marriage: [04:59–07:46]
• Documentaries and the Power of Story: [08:35–10:27]
• Systems of Oppression & Money: [11:16–15:46]
• Facing Bigotry in the Ex-MAGA Journey: [21:05–24:15]
• Making Amends and Using a Platform for Good: [26:26–28:05]
• On Breaking Through to MAGA Communities: [36:09–43:48]
• Hope, Peace, and Parenting as a Cycle Breaker: [49:23–56:32]

Tone & Takeaways

• The tone is candid, gentle, and layered with both hope and grief.
• Both Sophia and Carter model openness, reflect on their roles and responsibilities, and hold space for complexity.
• Carter’s story highlights the deeply personal nature of ideological change—how “work in progress” is not a glib phrase but a lived, courageous, and sometimes painful reality.
• The episode is ultimately a call to keep showing up for change, for self, and for the next generation, even (and especially) when it’s uncomfortable.