Work in Progress: Lilly Singh

Summary

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Work in Progress with Sophia Bush: Lilly Singh (Aired September 10, 2025)

Overview

In this dynamic and heartfelt episode, Sophia Bush sits down with her friend, comedian, author, producer, and changemaker Lilly Singh. The conversation oscillates between deep personal insights and playful banter, exploring themes such as the art of true human connection, healing inner child wounds, the value of storytelling, gender equity, representation in Hollywood, and Lilly’s mission to dismantle shame—particularly around sex and taboos.

Much of the episode centers around Lilly’s new film “Doom In It,” which serves as both an entertaining sex comedy and a personal, cultural intervention. The dialogue is open, vulnerable, and purpose-driven, interspersed with laughter and pragmatic life strategies.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Art of Connection & Presence

• Press Tour with Intention

  • Lilly describes her “era of connection,” aiming for real conversations on every stop of her press tour rather than superficial interactions. (06:19)
  • Lilly Singh [06:19]: “I’m here. I’m doing a little bit of a press tour for my movie, but I’m committed to enjoying every single second of it...just have good conversations and genuinely connect with people and be present.”

• Friendship in Hollywood

  • Both lament the rarity of genuine friendships in their field, where meaningful talk often loses out to small talk at big events.
  • Sophia Bush [12:02]: “I’m always in the corner having a deep talk with someone and then like, my agent yells at me and says I didn’t do my job. And I’m like, yeah, I didn’t go meet 18 producers. Cause I was learning about someone’s inner child.”

2. Inner Child Work, Rituals, and Healing

• Facing Trauma & Rewriting the Narrative

  • Lilly discusses her ongoing therapy and “inner child work,” describing how shifting her attitude from blaming her younger self for her adult wounds to celebrating her resilience has been transformative.
  • Lilly Singh [10:35]: “For most of my life, it’s been so painful to look at that little girl...Over the past couple months, I have really switched that narrative to be like, actually I have everything I have because of that little girl...So I’ve completely flipped the narrative to be like, thank you, little girl.”

• Practical Rituals

  • Lilly shares tangible rituals, like dancing to a song with her inner child before big events.
  • Lilly Singh [12:05]: “Before an audition...I always take a moment for that inner child. And I have a song that I play that I dance with her in...I dance with that little girl and I protect her.”

• Control and Pragmatism

  • Both women unpack eldest daughter/only-daughter syndrome and the urge to control chaos through lists, structure, and rituals.
  • Lilly Singh [13:17]: “The too long don’t read is control freak...I fully own my control freakness.”

3. Storytelling as Healing and Power

• How TV and Movies Modeled Humor and Life

  • Lilly shares about being “raised by The Simpsons and Fresh Prince” and how TV crafted her comedic instincts and emotional understanding.
  • Lilly Singh [15:01]: “I was raised by the Simpsons. A lot of my humor comes from the Simpsons...it’s how I understood myself and the people around me.”

• Comedy as Medicine

  • Both agree storytelling is a powerful intervention (“It’s the medicine”—Lilly [16:30]) and discuss how narrative shapes the way people view themselves and social systems, including gender.
  • Sophia Bush [17:06]: “Everything is a story.”
  • Lilly Singh [16:46]: “It’s made up. Everything is made up.”

4. Navigating Age, Self-Rediscovery, and Liberation

• Sophia’s 40s “Death and Rebirth”
  • Sophia opens up about feeling more confident, happy, and alive in her 40s than any prior decade.
  • Sophia Bush [27:35]: “I turned 40, I had like a complete death and rebirth of the soul...there’s nobody meaner to me than me...But honestly, I’ve never felt cuter. My style has never been better. I’ve never had better sex. I’ve never had better relationships.”

5. Gender Equity, Sports, and Social Investment

• Lilly’s Involvement with Angel City, Toronto Tempo, and Investing in Girls

  • Lilly details her investments in women’s soccer teams as strategic moves to uplift girls and women, citing sports’ transformative power, especially in India.
  • Lilly Singh [28:58]: “The greatest investment you can actually make is in girls and women. There is no greater return on investment. And I’ve seen it firsthand.”

• Representation with Purpose

  • Both highlight the ripple benefit of girls’ advancement for entire communities, including boys.
  • Lilly Singh [30:11]: “It is actually factually and statistically true that if you invest in girls, the whole world will benefit.”

6. Embracing Cultural Diversity and Challenging the Mainstream

• The Privilege of Exposure
  • Lilly and Sophia reflect on growing up with diverse communities and cultures in Toronto and LA, and the privilege that brings.
  • Lilly speaks passionately about not letting Hollywood box her culture as “niche” and actively showcasing her Indian-Canadian heritage.
  • Lilly Singh [37:24]: “I just got beaten down over years...which is why I now so proactively go out of my way to be like, no, my culture is really cool.”

7. Creating “Doom in It”: A Sex Comedy as Cultural Intervention

• Personal and Cultural Healing

  • The film incorporates nods to Lilly’s upbringing and her mother’s, with her mom serving as a cultural consultant to ensure authenticity.
  • Lilly Singh [45:37]: “My mom is actually factually the cultural consultant on the movie...Anytime there’s Punjabi or Hindi, my mom’s making sure we say it right.”

• Dismantling Shame—Onscreen and Off

  • The film unapologetically addresses sex taboos, aiming to liberate women from shame and awkwardness through humor and honest storytelling.
  • Lilly Singh [48:51]: “I wrote it with one thing in mind, which was this is gonna be a completely unapologetic love letter to girls and women who have just felt shame around this subject their whole life.”
  • Discusses fighting to keep in jokes about tampons, pubic hair, and the importance of not sanitizing conversations that matter.

• Healing Across Generations

  • Making the film sparked conversations with her own mother she never anticipated—and even led to her mother making sex jokes on set.
  • Lilly Singh [50:07]: “We try to talk about those nuances in this film a lot. But, yeah...I never got the talk. Growing up, me and my mom had to talk for the first time during this movie.”

• Practical Tools for Unlearning Shame & Finding Liberation

  • Safety (reassuring oneself with “I am safe” prompts)
  • Listing out all life’s options to remind oneself of agency
  • Dedicating a day just to operate out of “what do I actually want?”
  • Lilly Singh [54:31]: “Just to remind yourself that you actually have the freedom to do whatever the hell you want.”

8. Hollywood, Representation, and The Real Table-Building

• On Building New Tables and Real Representation

  • Lilly is clear that true representation means more than tokenism; it’s about handing the mic to those who live the experience, resisting homogenization, and valuing specificity over palatability.
  • Lilly Singh [61:38]: “I want stories to be told from the people experiencing those stories. And I want to create a system where...I don’t want notes that make my stories more palatable for people because they don’t have that experience.”
  • Sophia underscores that specificity, not “vanilla-izing,” is what compels audiences.

• Diversity Is Profitable

  • Lilly Singh [62:55]: “Every time diversity does really well, it’s an exception. The Barbie movie. Black Panther. It’s like, no, people want diversity. If you look at the box office numbers...they’re the ones that are driving the box office.”

9. Unicorn Island: Lilly’s Production & Philanthropy Mission

• Unicorn Island Productions & Fund

  • Unicorn Island aims to change how girls and women are valued globally through storytelling and culture change, de-weaponizing shame.

  • Lilly Singh [65:44]: “One of the greatest injustices is that 50% of the world population doesn’t get the opportunity, doesn’t have the rights...It makes no sense, no matter how you look at it, to not give girls and women the opportunities...And so Unicorn Island is all about: how do we change the culture around how girls and women are treated?”

  • Tells the story of a real-world Indian village soap opera that changed attitudes and delayed child marriage—proof of storytelling’s power.

10. Gender Equity Benefits Everyone

• Liberating Men and Boys Too
  • Both highlight how gender equity and dismantling the patriarchy liberates men from restrictive roles and emotions.
  • Lilly Singh [70:11]: “...if you really think that the patriarchy and the stuff doesn’t impact you, like, I want you men to reflect on every moment. You feel so stressed and anxious because you are just burdened with expectations of...can’t talk about your mental health...all of that is the patriarchy.”

11. “Work in Progress”: Identity Beyond Achievement

• Lilly’s Ongoing Journey
  • Her real work in progress? Remaining a student for life, valuing growth and self-awareness above accolades.
  • Lilly Singh [72:57]: “My work in progress is always going to be my mind and my spirituality and my growth.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Flipping Your Trauma Narrative
  “Actually I have everything I have because of that little girl...So I’ve completely flipped the narrative to be like, thank you, little girl.” — Lilly Singh [10:35]

• On the Power of Story
  “I really do believe in the power of stories. And I first and foremost call myself a storyteller for that reason.” — Lilly Singh [17:12]

• On Investing in Women
  “There is no greater return on investment...When you invest in a girl, she goes to school and then her family benefits.” — Lilly Singh [28:58–30:07]

• On Representation in Hollywood
  “They want unique points of view and unique characters, but we’re going to give you all these notes to turn them into a generic, watered down version of that...I don’t want notes that make my stories more palatable for people.” — Lilly Singh [61:38]

• On Gender Equity
  “When we talk about gender equity, we’re also talking about liberating men and boys in a very, very real way.” — Lilly Singh [70:44]

• On Work in Progress
  “My work in progress is always going to be my mind and my spirituality and my growth.” — Lilly Singh [72:57]

• Humorous Highlight

  • On Sophia’s sex life:
    “Say it again. Sophia Bush is having the best sex of her life. You heard it here, y’all. This is the clip—editors, if you want the viral clip for the socials...” — Lilly Singh [51:58]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• The Value of True Connection: 06:07–07:37
• Inner Child Work & Rituals: 08:40–12:30
• Storytelling as Intervention: 15:01–17:44
• Pragmatism & Control: 13:16–14:23
• Cultural Diversity in Upbringing: 36:06–39:35
• Investing in Girls and Women, Sports: 28:31–32:50
• Building Unicorn Island & Changing Culture: 64:40–67:56
• Dismantling Shame with Comedy and “Doom In It”: 45:27–51:36
• Liberating Men & Gender Equity: 68:36–72:26
• Lilly on Identity & Growth as a ‘Work in Progress’: 72:57–74:07

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a masterclass in vulnerability, wit, and activism through storytelling. Both Sophia and Lilly model the kind of authentic, non-performative dialogue they wish for the world—one where trauma is transformed into strength, where culture and identity are sources of pride, and where laughter and pragmatism are powerful tools for healing.

Lilly’s new film, “Doom In It,” epitomizes her mission: dismantle the shame around sex, amplify marginalized voices, and do it all with honesty and humor. Whether discussing inner child work, the power of specificity in storytelling, or why equity benefits all, this conversation is as rich and layered as the women at its center.

Highly recommended for anyone interested in cultural change, personal growth, or just a damn good conversation.

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Transcript

[Lilly Singh]

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[Sophia Bush]

Hi everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome back to Work in Progress. Whip Smarties Today we are joined by one of my favorite women in my life. I was a fan of hers before we became friends. We became friends and she's every bit as cool as I'd ever hoped she would be and more. And she just happens to be like, I don't know, a genre redefining genius who is changing comedy, storytelling, digital media and transforming personal experiences for the better. She has a humor that resonates across cultures and happens to be one of the most talented, audacious and hardworking people that I know. Today we are joined by the inimitable Lilly Singh. Lily is here to talk about her new film Doom in it, which hits theaters next week, and the movie really exemplifies her mission for using her platform for global impact while amplifying underrepresented voices and somehow doing all of it with humor. She's dismantling shame, she's challenging cultural taboos, she's empowering women to reclaim their stories and she is making us laugh really frickin hard while she does it? Let's dive in with Lilly Singh.

[Lilly Singh]

Hi.

[Sophia Bush]

Hi.

[Lilly Singh]

Hi, Sophia.

[Sophia Bush]

Welcome.

[Lilly Singh]

I'm so excited.

[Sophia Bush]

This is also so funny. I, like, I got my, you know, I always have all my nerdy prep stuff, and I was, like, weird to have prep documents to sit with my homie.

[Lilly Singh]

Correct. I know.

[Sophia Bush]

But also then I was like, no, this is probably good because it'll remind me that we're working.

[Lilly Singh]

Yes. But also, like, how lovely for me that I have to, like, do this work thing. I'm like, I'm just gonna go talk to Sophia for an hour.

[Sophia Bush]

How is it feeling?

[Lilly Singh]

I'm so happy to be here. I am in my era of connection, girly pop. I am just here. I'm doing, like, a little bit of a press tour for my movie, but I'm committed to enjoying every single second of it. And so my number one thing is just have good conversations and genuinely connect with people and, like, actually be present. And that's what I'm doing.

[Sophia Bush]

I feel like that was the beginning of a journey you were starting when we went to Pachay and had our, like, quintessential classic LA dinner.

[Lilly Singh]

That's actually well remembered, right? That's exactly correct. So I told you that during that dinner that I go to a dinner every Thursday.

[Sophia Bush]

Yeah.

[Lilly Singh]

In my. In my. My whole thing is, like, connecting with people because I feel like we're in this industry, even if you're not in this industry. I feel like we're really losing the art of connection. I feel like we're just acquaintances with people. We have a lot of small talk. We never get deep into. We don't know things about other people.

[Sophia Bush]

Yeah.

[Lilly Singh]

And I was like, I'm gonna take Sophia out for dinner, and I just want, like, know things about her and be friends, real friends. Well.

[Sophia Bush]

And I think when you have the experience we've always had together, which is like, oh, you're my people. And then all we do is text, and it's like, I'm in Toronto. I'm in New York.

[Lilly Singh]

Right.

[Sophia Bush]

L. A. I'm in New Mexico. And I'm like, yeah, like, when are.

[Lilly Singh]

We ever going to be event with, like, 200 people? And then you just say you're high and bye, and you don't really, like, actually connect. So I'm just really, my number one priority in life is connecting with people, regardless of what I'm doing. So that's why I'm here. I'm here. I'm fully present with you.

[Sophia Bush]

We're in it.

[Lilly Singh]

We're in it, baby.

[Sophia Bush]

Okay, question for you answer for you especially because I feel like you have been such a public fixture figure, not even as characters, but you, your identity, what you're passionate about, your writing you're creating, you know, your early YouTube career, all of it. Everybody knows or thinks at least maybe that's super parasocial and I should know better, but everyone thinks they know a lot about you for like the woman you are, the business woman you are casual. What about if we went back and like we got to bend space time a little bit for the nerds and we got to walk onto a playground and like our eight or nine year old selves were playing. Would you be able to sit down with your nine year old self and, and do you think you would see yourself in her?

[Lilly Singh]

Yes, absolutely. I do think that to answer the first part of the question, I think people have a pretty good grasp of who I am. The good news about me is, yeah, I'm very grateful that my career started with me being me. I did not start my career acting as a character. I was myself in my YouTube videos and I was myself for like a decade plus. And so sometimes when I, when I'm hanging with my other actor friends, they're like, oh, I'm so comfortable on set lines. But the second I do an interview, I don't know how to answer. I, I'm the opposite. I'm so used to being myself all the time and so I feel really comfortable opening up and I have very little filter and I'm very honest and vulnerable pretty quickly, honestly. So I think people have a pretty good grasp of who I am. Obviously there's some parts of my life I keep private, but I think what you see is what you get with me for the most part when you see me on screen. Going back to the playground question, I think I would see a lot of myself in that young girl, mostly because, and I'm speaking of going into some stuff, I do a lot of inner child work. So I talk to that nine year old version of Lily all the time. All the time. Truly there's a lot of differences between me and her, but there's a lot of similarities and we talk a lot and we're in constant communication and so I would say that I, I'm talking to her and ask myself this question every day.

[Sophia Bush]

What do you think because you do that work you see in her, like what, what would some of the takeaways be of that sort of inner child work you're talking about?

[Lilly Singh]

So I think this is funny. You're asking Me this because I've been like deep in it for the past couple months. Sophia is my friend. You know, I've been through some, some things over the past little bit here. And I've been really in therapy, journaling, just really trying to master myself, master my mind and grow a lot. And so I think for most of my life, and I'll speak about this in a way where I feel like everybody has a moment in their life when they're a child where they have a vivid memory of like, that's where the abandonment issue happened. Or like, that's where the trauma started.

[Sophia Bush]

There's my trauma exactly right there.

[Lilly Singh]

It's right there. We all this visual of like, us as a kid in a space in time where we're like. And that's where that, like, hurt happened. And maybe we didn't know it, maybe we know it now, whatever it is. And so I have very vivid memories of like, exactly the room I was in, where I was when that little girl, like her abandonment issues started and where some of her trauma started. And for most of my life, it's been so painful to look at that little girl and look at that moment because I, I didn't give her grace. I was like, you are so hurt. And because you're hurt. Now I'm an adult who has abandonment issues and I have to go to therapy and I'm like, this way in a relationship and I'm like this way in friendships because of you and because of this hurt. And over the past couple months, I have really switched that narrative to be like, actually I have everything I have because of that little girl. Because that little girl went through some stuff, was able to like, be super resilient, was able to learn and grow and just never give up is the reason I am the way I am. So I've completely flipped the narrative to be like, thank you, little girl. Like, thank you for being so strong and I'm gonna protect you and take care of you. And now when I have that, this, like, see, look, it's been five minutes, we're already in deep trauma. This is who I am, by the way. I just like, hate small talk.

[Sophia Bush]

But this is also why you and I bond. Because, like, we're not the people at the 200 person event saying hellos, right? I'm always in the corner having a deep talk with someone and then like, my agent yells at me and says I didn't do my job. And I'm like, yeah, I didn't go meet 18 producers. Cause I was learning about someone's inner child.

[Lilly Singh]

You did a better job. You were a human being.

[Sophia Bush]

So here we are.

[Lilly Singh]

Yeah. Well, all this to say.

[Sophia Bush]

Now I got tips.

[Lilly Singh]

Yes. Well, all this to say. And I'm gonna really reveal some nerdy things about me. Cause I am a big believer of rituals. I do this thing where before an audition, before a chemistry read, before anything I do, I always take a moment for that inner child. And I have a song that I play that I dance with her in. That's how nerdy I am. I actually go back to that room in that moment and I dance with that little girl and I protect her. Now that's my inner child work.

[Sophia Bush]

That's a really beautiful thing. That's practicable, if you will.

[Lilly Singh]

I'm. My brain is quite pragmatic, actually. I mean, my therapist is always like, let me guess, you want a list and you want instructions. And I'm like, absolutely. I would absolutely love a task and instructions.

[Sophia Bush]

Okay, question for you. Do you think I'm gonna be vulnerable here?

[Lilly Singh]

Tell me.

[Sophia Bush]

Do you think that's because as children who went through trauma, who then become this sort of classic, classic eldest daughter syndrome, or only daughter syndrome, or successful daughter syndrome, in a way, your. Your emotions can be so big, your sensitivity is so big, your empathy can be crippling that. Then you go, oh, if I'm going to get a handle on this, I gotta get real pragmatic.

[Lilly Singh]

Correct.

[Sophia Bush]

Yes.

[Lilly Singh]

The too long don't read is control freak. That's another way to say it. I'm a massive control freak.

[Sophia Bush]

Listen. Who has a negative energy?

[Lilly Singh]

I fully own my control freakness.

[Sophia Bush]

Pragmatist is great.

[Lilly Singh]

I love it. I love a list. I love a practical task. So to the best of my ability, if I'm working on anything that is spiritual, mental, I try my best to come up with a pragmatic exercise that goes. It's not always possible.

[Sophia Bush]

Really like that.

[Lilly Singh]

It's not always possible. But I have found a lot that really do work.

[Sophia Bush]

Something I really admire about you too, though, is you figure it out and then you do it. Like, I'm the person who will get. It's like a classic ADHD thing. It's by. Oh, is it new journal season? Which is all the time. It's like, oh, this workbook is gonna be the one that I'm gonna stick with. And then it's gonna change my life. And I'm definitely in a moment where I'm like, no, I have to change my life no matter what journal I'm using.

[Lilly Singh]

Yeah.

[Sophia Bush]

Otherwise, it's really.

[Lilly Singh]

Yeah. And I feel for you. I feel. I do. I do come up with the stuff, and I do do it, but I have the opposite problem. Whereas you might be like, oh, the journal's gonna. I'm so rigid. This journal is the only journal I'll use, and I cannot be flexible at all. I have to. So I'm rigid, and I'm learning more flexibility.

[Sophia Bush]

Honestly. Do you think in that way, like, you just wrote us a bit. You are a great writer, whether it's a joke or whether it's something comedic or whether it's something serious. Like, you. You have always seemed. Since I've known you and before we knew each other personally, but I knew your work. You've always seemed like a person who harnesses story for humor and for good. Where do you think that came from? Was that a. Was that a way to help kind of parent your inner child before you knew that's what you were doing?

[Lilly Singh]

I mean, I probably wouldn't have said it so eloquently, but. Because you said it, absolutely. That is what it is. No, it's a few things. You know, I, growing up, loved tv and I loved movies, and I grew up in the era of, like, movie stars and TV stars, you know? And so I feel like I learned so much about myself and how to treat myself and I treat other people through TV and movies. Yeah. I'll give you an example. Like, I mean, this not as a joke. Very sincerely. I was raised by the Simpsons. A lot of my humor comes from the Simpsons. One of the most common comments I get under my YouTube videos is you have the mannerisms, comedic timing, and facial expressions of Will Smith. Because I was raised with Fresh Prince, so I have emulated these people that I grew up watching.

[Sophia Bush]

Yeah.

[Lilly Singh]

And it's how I understood myself and the people around me. And so I know that TV shows and movies are just entertaining, but there's so much more than that. They actually really do impact our worldview. Yeah. And I remember vividly the first time I watched Pitch Perfect. It's Anna Kendrick. She makes a joke about, just, like, her family trauma. And I remember being in a theater, watching that, being like, you can do that. You can have trauma and just make a joke about it and, like, laugh. And that was actually the thing that started me using comedy as, like, a vehicle to deal with some of my trauma. And so I just have learned so much through stories. And I really, really believe that if you see a character go through something, you can learn about yourself. You can feel Inspired, you can have something to aspire to. I feel like we don't talk about storytelling as being like the intervention enough. I really do feel it's the medicine.

[Sophia Bush]

I totally.

[Lilly Singh]

And when you. You know. Because I really care about. And I know you do too, gender and gender equity. And you talk about all this stuff like the patriarchy is just a story. All these things of how we treat people is just a story. Yes. And so if there's stories that exist, those stories can be changed and better stories can be told.

[Sophia Bush]

Everything is a story.

[Lilly Singh]

It's made up. Everything is made up.

[Sophia Bush]

And it's like, everything. What are we. What are we doing adhering to these stories instead of using the thing we see and know to be real, which is we learn, we grow, we do better. There are people out here that are like, I could grow and do better, but I gotta adhere to this story. Right?

[Lilly Singh]

Exactly.

[Sophia Bush]

But that story's making you a shitty person.

[Lilly Singh]

100%. Write a new story. So why. Absolutely.

[Sophia Bush]

Yeah.

[Lilly Singh]

So I really do believe in the power of stories. And I first and foremost call myself a storyteller for that reason.

[Sophia Bush]

I love it. I do, too. Yeah. When people ask what I do, it's. Actor is a. Is a. A title I find a lot of passion for, but it also feels reductive to the full scope of what we do.

[Lilly Singh]

Yeah.

[Sophia Bush]

Because I'm acting when the camera's rolling, but I am working on the story from sun up to sundown and in every moment on set, in between. Totally. And I like that.

[Lilly Singh]

Yeah, absolutely. And one part I love about acting is you get to learn so much about yourself. I feel like every part of it is beautiful. The actor gets to learn about themselves, the viewer gets to learn about themselves.

[Sophia Bush]

Totally.

[Lilly Singh]

A beautiful experience. Mutually beneficial. Well.

[Sophia Bush]

And there's something really interesting. I've been thinking about this a lot lately, especially because, like, everything's in the phone, everything's flat, everything's a headline, everything is a clickbait. Something. Everything is designed to enrage you or scare you or whatever. And I've tried to think about why this is so bad for us. But to your point, because we grew up at that same time watching those great shows, like being raised by TV in the 80s and 90s was cool because we were learning about people and people were allowed to be human. It wasn't. You're perfect on a pedestal until we ruin you in the tabloids or the press or the paper. It was every week you're gonna sit down and watch someone try and fail and sometimes succeed. And you'll love them through all of it. And maybe you'll learn how to fail with grace. And maybe you'll learn how to succeed with humility. And maybe you'll learn how to be a good co worker or a better daughter or whatever. And I realize we don't actually get to watch people grow a lot. We don't get to watch people get knocked down and get back up in really in depth ways. And that's why I think film and television are so powerful.

[Lilly Singh]

Totally.

[Sophia Bush]

Because you get to see the stuff people often hide from the outside world and then you get to practice grace and patience.

[Lilly Singh]

Right. That's a really good point. I feel like it's far and few in between when we get to see that journey online these days.

[Sophia Bush]

Yeah.

[Lilly Singh]

If you guys want to see people fail, you should follow me. Let me just. I'm. I'm very open about all my failures and imperfections, but yeah, I agree. I think the phone. Listen. I think everything is bittersweet. I think there's a lot of great things the Internet has done and social media has done. It has given us more information totally. In some ways made us more connected, in some ways made us more disconnected. I think the number one problem with it is just the sheer amount of noise it is. And I don't think the human brain is built to handle that by any means. It's too much. It's too much noise.

[Sophia Bush]

When you think about the fact that the first silent movie, when the director had the great idea to put the camera right along the train track and the train came at camera and everyone jumped up screaming and ran out of the theater because the human brain couldn't comprehend that a train could be coming at you but from inside a screen. Like that was it. That was 1910. 1912. That's a hundred years now.

[Lilly Singh]

Look what our brain is being supposed to.

[Sophia Bush]

And now we're consuming more media every day, then this is probably an old statistic. It's probably more now. This is 10 years ago. We consume more media every 24 hours than had been made in the past 10,000 years combined. Of course, everyone's losing their mouths.

[Lilly Singh]

The train is soothing to me. Yeah, I fall asleep to that.

[Sophia Bush]

I'm like, ooh, the subway.

[Lilly Singh]

Literally.

[Sophia Bush]

We'll be back in just a minute, but here's a word from our sponsors.

[Podcast Host (Sponsor Announcer)]

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[Sophia Bush]

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[Sophia Bush]

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[Sophia Bush]

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[Lilly Singh]

Okay, are we old?

[Sophia Bush]

I here's what's interesting.

[Lilly Singh]

That's a yes.

[Sophia Bush]

It's a yes and a no. And, and this comes from loving things like quantum physics and philosophy, but also from the literal experience I'm living, which is, I turned 40, I had like a complete death and rebirth of the soul. Talk about trauma. I was like, oh, nothing in my reality is what I think it is.

[Lilly Singh]

Cool.

[Sophia Bush]

Well, where do I start over? If I'm starting from zero and things are better than they've ever been and I took off everybody else's bull during that time and truly picked up what feels like it's mine and meant for me. And I'm in my 40s now and like I say this with no conceit, there's nobody meaner to me than me. So whatever troll is listening to this who's like, let me knock her down a peg, like, nice try, try living in my brain. But honestly, I've never felt cuter. My style has never been better. I've never had better sex. I've never had better relationships.

[Lilly Singh]

I'm not even listening to him. Just looking at how hot you are.

[Sophia Bush]

Like, I'm like loving my life. Yes.

[Podcast Host (Sponsor Announcer)]

In a way.

[Sophia Bush]

I couldn't love it in my 20s as much as I hated it in my 30s. And I'm like, oh, I sort of feel like I'm aging backwards spiritually.

[Lilly Singh]

Absolutely. And I see that.

[Sophia Bush]

Talk to me about that desire, that strategy. Because whether it's acfc, whether it's the Toronto Tempo and you're in your hometown, like, how are you building out of the traditional entertainment vertical for women and really bringing people into the conversation around gender equity in a way that feels frankly, fun.

[Lilly Singh]

Yeah. Because it can be pretty boring.

[Sophia Bush]

It can be.

[Lilly Singh]

Yes. Anytime we talk about the patriarchy or gender equality, people are like, that's not sexy. And I get it. So I try to make it really accessible you know, from the beginning of my career, I've always been someone that has had my toe dipped in a lot of different things. I think out of necessity, I never felt safe doing one thing. And I'm a multi hyphenate for that reason. And I think that comes from like all childhood trauma. Yes, childhood trauma. Having immigrant parents where I was like, what's the plan? What's the backup plan? How do I make sure this is fail safe? And so, you know, when I was a creator and I started to make money, I was like, okay, and I'm going to write a book and I'll go on some tours and I'll have merch and I'll make sure I have a production company. I'll start a charity. I've always been a kind of 360 approach type of person out of safety and necessity. Once I start to have enough resources and money to be like, I can start investing into things and like having a little bit of fun. I have just learned through my travels and through my charity work, I'm a really good person. My charity work, that. Yes, through my charity work, that the greatest investment you can actually make is in girls and women. There is no greater return on investment. And I've seen it firsthand when I go to any corner of this world. If you invest in a girl, it will go above and beyond. The ripple effect is wild. When you invest in a girl, she goes to school and then her family benefits.

[Sophia Bush]

And to be clear, for everyone rolling their eyes being like, what about the boys? It's better for the boys too.

[Lilly Singh]

Yeah.

[Sophia Bush]

Oh, it's better center the girls in the investment. Boys benefit also.

[Lilly Singh]

It is actually factually and statistically true that if you invest in girls, the whole world will benefit. Correct? Yes. So relax, we're doing this for you too.

[Sophia Bush]

Yeah.

[Lilly Singh]

But you're also welcome. But also, I will also have to politely call you out and say that if your response to that is what about the boys? Then you need to check yourself because girls and women do not get the opportunities that boys get across the world. So let's just call it what it is. Let's get off your high horse for a second. Let's just have an honest conversation.

[Sophia Bush]

Facts are facts.

[Lilly Singh]

Facts. Feelings are facts.

[Sophia Bush]

Thank you so much for coming.

[Lilly Singh]

Said that the patriarchy does actually negatively, factually negatively impact boys and men as well. And that has been proven time and time again. But yes, especially with sports. You know, I've been. I go to India once a year and I've heard some amazing stories about how a single, simple, small sports team can change a girl's life. The last village I went to in India, a simple soccer team that the girls were part of.

[Sophia Bush]

Yeah.

[Lilly Singh]

Prevented, like, so many child marriages in that village because they were, like, part of a team, and they learned, like, how to band together, and they learned that they could be a team and be outspoken. And so one of the girls, their parents, like, wanted them to get married, and they. The whole team showed up at this girl's house to be like, no, we're all part of a team. We're not letting you get her married. And, like, curbed child marriage in that community. You know, simple things like letting them learn how to build skills together. Taught them that, oh, yeah, friendship's important. And, like, banding together, it's just. It's crazy amount of things sports does for confidence. Even teaching them, like, financial literacy, It's. It's across the board, a great investment. And so going back to Angel City in Toronto Temple, I'm gonna keep it real. I know nothing about soccer. I don't know a single rule about soccer. I never played sports. If you asked me about the girl in the playground that was nine years old, she was probably crying because she was bad at running. I was horrible at sports my whole life. I know. I give as if I could be athletic. It's all a facade. I give tomboy athletic. I can aim, I can throw. I can catch. Can't run fast or for long periods of time. Can't jump at all. Can't get off the ground. It can happen. It literally cannot happen. And so I was like, those who do not play sports support sports.

[Sophia Bush]

Yes.

[Lilly Singh]

And that is what I do. And so cheer. Yes, exactly. And so for Angel City, when it came across my desk, literally all they said was women's sports team. I said, selas, I know nothing about soccer, but women I will invest in time and time again. The Toronto Temple is really exciting because Toronto is my hometown. I'm from Toronto. I'm a massive Raptors fan. Which is the NBA team.

[Sophia Bush]

Oh, yeah.

[Lilly Singh]

We only have one in Canada. Flew back and forth for the playoffs.

[Sophia Bush]

Yeah.

[Lilly Singh]

When they won the championship. And I would have been devastated if I wasn't part of the ownership group for the Toronto Tempo. And I am. It's the biggest investment I've ever made, and it's the most meaningful investment I've ever made, and I have zero regrets about. I'm. I would do it time and time again.

[Sophia Bush]

I love it. Yeah, I love it. I get it. Because, you know, LA is my hometown. Yeah. And my. My mom's whole side of my family's from here. Like, all over New York and New Jersey and obviously big sports culture here. The irony that my dad, who's also Canadian, is much like you.

[Lilly Singh]

You just love us.

[Sophia Bush]

I do. I mean, I'm a dualie.

[Lilly Singh]

Yeah.

[Sophia Bush]

You know, like, I. I feel sort of, like, vaguely like I'm in the CIA when I travel with two passports.

[Sponsor Voice (Hello Divorce, Washable Sofas)]

I'm like, who?

[Sophia Bush]

What do you need? Really? Feels fun for me. But I. My dad has absolutely no sports skill. He's an artist. Like, his biggest fear when my mom was pregnant with me was that I would be a boy and he would have to learn about hockey because he had avoided that his whole life. And then out comes this tomboy daughter who loves hockey, loves soccer, loves basketball, and really thought she was gonna be, like, a baller. Soccer player. And then I think I. I think I made it to, like, nine on an AYSO team before I was.

[Lilly Singh]

I don't know what that means.

[Sophia Bush]

It's like a local kids soccer league thing that all my friends played in, but I kept having to run off the field to grab my inhaler from my mom and, like, hot. Make sure I didn't die of an asthma attack and run back on. And I was like, this feels like a sign. But I'm not. I'm not gonna be, like, a collegiate athlete. It's not meant for me. So I became the asthmatic theater kid who also doesn't jump. But I. I root very loudly for our teams.

[Lilly Singh]

And you see me at the games, I'm doing the most. All the time.

[Sophia Bush]

All the time.

[Lilly Singh]

All the time.

[Sophia Bush]

You're very good. You're a very good, like, sideline host.

[Lilly Singh]

I try.

[Sophia Bush]

I think of you that way. You're like the host of the owners.

[Lilly Singh]

Oh, thank you. Yeah. I do pride myself. So for the Toronto Tempo, my official title is Chief Hype Officer.

[Sophia Bush]

I know.

[Lilly Singh]

I really do pride myself in my ability to cheer people on. I like to be people's cheerleaders, leaders, because we're so. I feel like we've become so vogue. We've gotten such a habit of becoming so vocal about the things we don't like. Everyone is shining what they don't like. Great. Keep shouting about that. That's important, too. But we should also shut about the things we do want more of. And we do.

[Sophia Bush]

Like, there's got to be the good feedback.

[Lilly Singh]

Correct. It can't just be the negative. What do we all do when we're scrolling online? Let me check the comments to see what mean things are being said. Like, no, I want to, like, cheer people on and make people feel good about themselves. Here's. And I'll tell you, it's for selfish reasons. Spiritually, I believe if everyone is just the best version of themselves, my life will also be better. That's. I believe that if I'm a good friend to you and you're the best version of yourself, with you. When you're with me, that's a win for me. Totally. Also.

[Sophia Bush]

And a win win is exactly what we should be aiming for.

[Lilly Singh]

Correct. Simple math. Simple math.

[Sophia Bush]

You know, I like a little data set.

[Lilly Singh]

Yes.

[Sophia Bush]

I'm like, you're the chief hype woman, and I'm like, the chief nerd, and I like the chief science door.

[Lilly Singh]

And I like it.

[Sophia Bush]

I. When I was little, I wanted to be Bill Nye's assistant, like, more than anything in my life.

[Lilly Singh]

I feel like that's very attainable.

[Sophia Bush]

I. And then the crazy. What an insane sentence I'm about to say. I met him many years ago at the White House, of all places. And I was like, bill Nye, I am your biggest fan. And he goes, I'm your biggest fan. I said, I don't even think you know me, and it doesn't matter. And he started laughing, and I was like, I don't know if the answer is yes or no. Wow. But we're gonna be friends.

[Lilly Singh]

I feel like that's very possible. That would. I. Would I.

[Sophia Bush]

Just give me a lab coat.

[Lilly Singh]

You know what? I'm gonna make that happen.

[Sophia Bush]

Thank you.

[Lilly Singh]

Never met him, but it's my mission now.

[Sophia Bush]

Okay.

[Lilly Singh]

That's gonna make. We're gonna make that happen.

[Sophia Bush]

I appreciate that.

[Lilly Singh]

Has he been on the podcast?

[Sophia Bush]

Not yet.

[Lilly Singh]

Well, now he will be.

[Sophia Bush]

Okay. I have a Canada question for you.

[Lilly Singh]

Hit me.

[Sophia Bush]

Because obviously I do love it very much. And one of the things I've loved about my time living in Toronto, working, is how incredibly diverse the city is and how much Toronto knows its diversity is the coolest thing about.

[Lilly Singh]

Absolutely. It is the coolest thing.

[Sophia Bush]

I.

[Lilly Singh]

People always ask me what my upbringing was like. Like, was. I.

[Sophia Bush]

Tell me everything.

[Lilly Singh]

I'll be real with you. In high school, I think in my high school, there was 10 white people. Everyone else was a person of color. And I also will say, living in Toronto, I don't have a single friend. I'm not exaggerating. Not a single friend whose parents are not immigrants.

[Sophia Bush]

Yeah.

[Lilly Singh]

So all my friends speak another language. They all eat different foods. It's Very normal. The first movie I watched was Bollywood. The first concert I went to was Bollywood. First song I listened to as Bollywood. I just am. I can speak a little Tamil. I understand Jamaican patois. I grew up eating jerk chicken and pest. Like, it's all very. We love everyone's culture. No one's hiding their culture. It'd be weird to hide your culture. It's like you wear it on your sleeve. The only time I felt like that was when I moved to LA a decade ago in 2015.

[Sophia Bush]

Wow.

[Lilly Singh]

That is when I had culture shock. Because in 2015, almost no brown people lived in LA when I moved there and I was like, oh, nobody actually understands any of the cultural references I'm making. No one knows the food I'm talking about. When I go into a meeting with an exec, this exec is trying to convince me that my culture is niche and not cool.

[Sophia Bush]

And.

[Lilly Singh]

And I just got beaten down over years and years and years of that, which is why I now so proactively go out of my way to be like, no, my culture is really cool. And I try to tell stories about my culture. I throw my annual Diwali party, which you know about. I just do everything to be like, no, actually, this is amazing. I want to bring a piece of the Toronto diversity because I know it's cool and I love my culture and it's time for everyone else to catch up in the city.

[Sophia Bush]

Yeah.

[Lilly Singh]

So I'm very adamant on that.

[Sophia Bush]

I get white privilege. Nobody talks about the privilege of exposure. And that's the thing I'm the most grateful for in my upbringing.

[Lilly Singh]

Yeah.

[Sophia Bush]

Is like, my uncle Jeff's boyfriend did drag every Saturday night as Diana Ross. That man looked insane in a red sequin gown.

[Lilly Singh]

Yes.

[Sophia Bush]

Let's tell like, we were homies with the Japanese family that lived at the end of our block that owned the little sushi restaurant in the strip mall two blocks from our house. And, like, they taught me how to hand roll my own sushi when I was a kid. And, like, I was constantly eating Ethiopian food, Mexican food, meeting different people, Right? Yeah. And just watching the people my parents were friends with and gravitated towards and had in our home made such an impact on me. And I think about how weirdly lucky I was to grow up by seventh grade going to this, like, little private all girls school that, for what you think that is, was, like, very diverse. And we didn't have religious celebrations, we did cultural fairs.

[Lilly Singh]

Right. Yeah.

[Sophia Bush]

And my friend Mega's mom would come in and henna all the girls hands. And it's the thing. I wish, like, I wish I could give that to more people that are afraid of their neighbors or afraid of the town next door. I'm like, no, you're missing the best.

[Lilly Singh]

Totally part of us. I. I will say, I think what you're saying is so beautiful and it's so sentimental, but I need to be petty for one second. You have another Indian friend?

[Sophia Bush]

My friend's from high school.

[Lilly Singh]

That's not me.

[Sophia Bush]

Yeah.

[Lilly Singh]

How dare you? I'm so sorry. I'm like, I love representation, diversity, but I'm your only Indian friend. No kidding.

[Sophia Bush]

Like, I'm the. I'm the. I'm kidding.

[Lilly Singh]

Mega. I see you. I would put respect on your name. I see you. Yeah, you mentioned a mega. I like that. Okay, very good. Sorry, but what you're saying is very sentimental.

[Sophia Bush]

My roommate, my freshman.

[Lilly Singh]

Okay, let's go.

[Sophia Bush]

Our parents were like, you guys are really going to live together? Like, you're going. And we were like, yeah, we're so scared. We're going from like 50, 55 girls in our graduating class to a school with like 30,000 kids in undergrad. I was like, I am not prepared for this.

[Lilly Singh]

Well, on a serious note to what you're saying, I think what you're saying is so important because I think there's something really sad and dangerous about anyone who feels like they don't have to learn more. Yeah, I really feel like anyone who feels like I don't have to meet more people, I don't have to learn about other people's point of views, I don't have to have conversations and more because I just have it figured out. That's a very sad and dangerous place to live in. I would say I'm very committed to being a student for life in every facet. Even if I think I have something figured out, I want to still have the conversation and be like, change my mind. Show me perspective. I don't know. But I think a lot of this, like, I don't need to meet my neighbors and I don't need to see another point of view and I don't need to learn a different way of life or a different culture. I feel like that's very limiting to your life experience.

[Sophia Bush]

Absolutely.

[Lilly Singh]

You know what I mean? You should always want to learn more.

[Sophia Bush]

It's also, frankly, very limiting to your palate.

[Lilly Singh]

It. Correct.

[Podcast Host (Sponsor Announcer)]

Like you.

[Sophia Bush]

You eat boring food.

[Lilly Singh]

Correct. Abs.

[Podcast Host (Sponsor Announcer)]

Absolutely.

[Lilly Singh]

And you listen to boring music.

[Sophia Bush]

Thank you.

[Lilly Singh]

100.

[Sophia Bush]

Thank you.

[Lilly Singh]

Yep.

[Sophia Bush]

We'll be back in just a minute. After a few words from our favorite sponsors.

[Podcast Host (Sponsor Announcer)]

Hey friends, let's talk about simplifying our beauty routines. I know we have all been there feeling overwhelmed by 12 step skin care regimens and palettes with 50 eyeshadows. Here's the thing, I don't have time.

[Sophia Bush]

For that and I'm pretty sure you don't either.

[Podcast Host (Sponsor Announcer)]

That's why I am so excited that Merit is sponsoring this podcast. Merit is all about a less is more approach. Their makeup and skincare products are designed to enhance your natural beauty, not cover it up. From their minimalist foundation and concealer all in one to their incredible flush balms.

[Sophia Bush]

It'S like blush, but better.

[Podcast Host (Sponsor Announcer)]

With their simple products, I can get my whole routine done in under five minutes. If you are looking to simplify your morning, head to meritbeauty.com and get their signature makeup bag free with your first order. That's meritbeauty.com everybody knows that getting kids to do math, let alone be excited about math, can be pretty tough. I mean guys, let's be honest. It's pretty hard as an adult to get excited about math. We just have to figure out a way to hack the problem, as it were. If that sounds like what you're dealing with at home, you need to check out Prodigy. It is the online math game kids actually want to play, teaching the same math that they learn in class. Prodigy is trusted by over 800,000 teachers and voted number one by kids. It's helped over 22 million students and 91% of parents say their kids enjoy it. Head to prodigy.com and get up to free 50% off a parent membership. Learning can be joyful and this is.

[Sponsor Voice (Hello Products)]

Proof you know if you can find joy in the small moments, life will always be that much more fun. That's what Hello's oral and personal care products are all about. They take the mundane of every day and inject it with some everyday.

[Lilly Singh]

Yay.

[Podcast Host (Sponsor Announcer)]

Take Hello's Anti Plaque and Whitening Fluoride Free Toothpaste for instance. It'll brighten your routine and delight your senses with a formula that's equal parts fresh, friendly and has plaque fighting power. Or see the difference that a whitening toothpaste powered by vitamin C can do for your smile with hello's Vitamin C Whitening Fluoride Toothpaste with thoughtful and fun.

[Sponsor Voice (Hello Products)]

Products that can make brushing your teeth feel like a confetti filled bathroom dance party. Say hello to Happy to making the most of every moment. Say hello to a vegan. Cruelty free and never tested on animals. Toothpaste and say so long to dyes, parabens, artificial sweeteners and flavors and other things you can do without.

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[Sophia Bush]

When you think about how influenced you are by your culture, both you know, Indian and Canadian and then the way that you came to be this woman telling stories in the way that you do. How does all of that coalesce into the moment where this movie is coming out like, oh my God, tell me.

[Lilly Singh]

Okay, so the movie was shot in Toronto.

[Sophia Bush]

Yeah.

[Lilly Singh]

So it has a lot of nods to my upbringing and my mom's upbringing. So my mom is actually factually the cultural consultant on the movie.

[Sophia Bush]

Shut up.

[Lilly Singh]

She is. She worked on the movie.

[Sophia Bush]

Did she sit with a little script?

[Lilly Singh]

She did. She did. Because the class we shoot some scenes in India.

[Sophia Bush]

Yeah.

[Lilly Singh]

Yeah. And they're mirrored off my mom's classroom and any there's a few scenes where we speak Punjabi and Hindi and mom's making sure we say it right and she's making sure all the spelling is right of all the things on the wall.

[Sophia Bush]

She's like, you will not embarrass me.

[Lilly Singh]

Exactly, Exactly.

[Sophia Bush]

You put respect on my name.

[Lilly Singh]

Exactly. So it is mirroring my mom's upbringing to a certain extent. It is a lot of nods to my upbringing in Toronto, whether it's the school name, whether it's like the club name, whatever it may be. But, you know, I grew up in Toronto. I did not grow up in India. My mom grew up in India. But I think one thing we have in common is that anything related to sex is taboo. And this is true for a lot of cultures, not just Indian cultures, a lot. Every culture, I'd say in the world.

[Sophia Bush]

Yeah.

[Lilly Singh]

Sex tab.

[Sophia Bush]

Italian, Catholic. That was a no. No.

[Lilly Singh]

Exactly. And so I won't lie, like, for me, most of my life, the topic of sex has been a major pain point. It has been super stressful for me. Everything from getting my period to, like, learning about my sexuality, everything has just been a major stress. It has been a huge burden for me. I feel like I wish I had this movie growing up and I probably would have been so much more comfortable in my body and so much more confident and so much more knowledgeable. And so when you say that.

[Sophia Bush]

Writing this film because for our audience, you star in it, you wrote it, you produced it. I die for your mom with a notebook. Like, standing at Video Village.

[Lilly Singh]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's a sex comedy.

[Sophia Bush]

Yes.

[Lilly Singh]

Yeah.

[Sophia Bush]

But, like, how do you think being able to reflect on what you wish you had known? Both, I think it's so on point culturally and also, like, we're the first generation who can look up therapy and stuff on Instagram. So when you look back at yourself, us pre. Having access to those things, were you also trying to write to answer some of the questions you had as a kid?

[Lilly Singh]

A little bit, yeah. I think more than anything, though, I was writing from a place of, how can I tell a story that makes people feel less alone and awkward? Because I think for most of my life, I remember when I first moved to LA and I this is going to be tmi, but you're going to have to deal with it in Indian culture.

[Sophia Bush]

TMI sponsored by dmi.

[Lilly Singh]

Yes. There you go. In Indian culture, you know, we're not taught how to use tampons. That's like a big thing in a lot of cultures where they're like, anti tampons.

[Sophia Bush]

Yeah.

[Lilly Singh]

And so I remember when I.

[Sophia Bush]

That's the patriarchy.

[Lilly Singh]

Yes, correct. I remember when I first moved to la, I was like, one of my friends come over like, do you want a pattern? She kind of made fun of me for even asking about a pattern. I felt so embarrassed. But as an adult, I was like, I'm so embarrassed. I don't know how to talk about sex. It feels like everyone else knows this. Everybody else knows what they're doing. I'm the only person that doesn't understand this. And it was a really lonely and stressful feeling.

[Sophia Bush]

Yeah.

[Lilly Singh]

And I wrote the movie from the point of view of like, I think everyone kind of feels like this at a time or another. And we don't talk about it and we're all just doing the. The. We're having sex but feeling really awkward and not knowing how to talk about it, which is a really dangerous place to be. And so I wrote the movie. There's a lot of jokes in there and there's a lot of references that I really had to fight for. There's one about a tampon. There's one about pubes. There's one about a lot of things where I was like, no, I want to have this joke in there because there's gonna be a girl that watches that's like, oh my God, thank God. I thought I was the only one.

[Sophia Bush]

Like, don't sanitize the sex talk literally in the sex movie.

[Lilly Singh]

Right. And so I wrote it with one thing in mind, which was this is gonna be a completely unapologetic love letter to girls and women who have just felt shame around this subject their whole life. And it's about a 30 year old virgin who finds herself teaching sex ed. And I will say the virgin is not the butt of the joke. It is not a movie making fun of a woman who's a virgin. Because we've seen that. We've seen make fun of the virgin. We also have very rarely ever seen sex comedies from the point of view of a woman that is also female. Forward.

[Sophia Bush]

Yeah.

[Lilly Singh]

And this one is like, the women are the star of this movie. Sure, there's a man here or there, but like, the women are the star of this film and it's about their point of view and it's about unlearning the shame that we've all been taught through raunchy sex jokes. And I think using comedy as a vehicle to talk about some real shit.

[Sophia Bush]

And it's so important. And what excites me about it is the fact that to your point, you're helping to surface real conversations. Because there's this really weird sort of extreme spectrum where women and sex are concerned most of the time. And you're either like a frigid bitch, Virginia, or if you're sexually active in any way, shape or form, then you're getting slut shamed. And it's like, wait, the world doesn't.

[Lilly Singh]

Want women to be nuanced, but we're incredibly nuanced. And so we try to talk about those nuances in this film a lot. But, yeah, I just, you know, it's crazy. And I'll be vulnerable and tell you, I used to be so awkward even saying the word sex, saying the word penis, saying the word vagina, saying any of this. I would never grew up talking like this. And then I did the movie, and I never got the talk. Growing up, me and my mom had to talk for the first time during this movie. No, she made sex jokes on set. For the first time in my life, she made sex jokes on set. So it has healed me and my mom in a way. So I'm like, if that has happened for me, I cannot wait for views. And I'll tell you, when it premiered at south by Southwest two years ago, I did this thing where I handed out sex toys and vibrators. At the screening, I was like, you get a sex toy and you get a sex toy. And at the end of a screening, I kid you not, an older uncle and auntie came up to me and I was like, oh, my God, this is going to be bad. And they were like, love the movie. Thanks so much for our new sex toy. And I was like, love, you're awesome. But I was like, what? I would have never thought that it would have been the case. But, yeah, I think I. At the very least, I really hope it just helps people have the conversation and feel more comfortable having the conversation and just being comfortable learning what they like and being. Giving themselves permission to be like, I like this. I don't like this, and I'm allowed to feel this way, and I don't have to feel this way and I don't have to feel shame around this. Like, for every girl or woman that has just been stressed about sex in any capacity, whether it's like, oh, my God, my boyfriend expects this, or like, I don't know if I'm straight or, I don't know, this is a love letter to them. For any woman who's been in the bathroom stressed the moments before being like, I don't know what I'm doing. This is for you.

[Sophia Bush]

Well, and by the way, I think that's everyone. Yeah, I'm. I'm working on it. I'm gonna. I'm 43 years old, and when I'm like, this is what's happening. 40s are lit. Everyone was right. And when I'm listing off all the things that are great, and I'm like.

[Podcast Host (Sponsor Announcer)]

I'm having the best sex of my.

[Sophia Bush]

Life, I feel myself blush, and then I go, should I have said that? And so I keep repeating it because I'm trying to get over the feeling of, should I have said that?

[Lilly Singh]

Yeah, and you absolutely should have. Say it again. Say it again. Sophia Bush is having the best sex of her life. You heard it here, y'.

[Sophia Bush]

All.

[Lilly Singh]

This is the clip editors, if you want the viral clip for the socials. Right. Sophia Bush is having the best sex of her life. And you heard it here. And I'm trying to get like her, and I'm trying to catch up to her. One of us is having the best sex of her. One of us is trying to catch.

[Sophia Bush]

Listen, we're going to talk about that.

[Lilly Singh]

We'll face time later.

[Sophia Bush]

Yes.

[Lilly Singh]

Yeah. But I like what you're saying, because to be honest, it's easy to talk about, But I do catch myself throughout the day being like, ah, that's shame. You're doing a shame thing. You're feeling nervous that you said that, or you don't want to be pictured with the vibe or whatever it is. And I think that's the challenge. It's the mental gymnastics of catching ourselves to be like, I am operating from a place of shame, and how can I gently not be mad at myself? Because there's a reason that's there. We've been taught the shame totally to gracefully unlearn it and just make choices that are more liberating.

[Sophia Bush]

What's the journal prompt for that? For liberation and unlearning shame.

[Lilly Singh]

Okay. For me, I'll tell you what it is for me. Shame for me is associated with safety. I think we are shamed to a place of, like, if I operate in this way, I'll be safe, I'll be accepted. I'll be safe. I will not be shunned. So I will let shame take me to a place of safety. But if I can convince myself I'm safe and shameless at the same time, then that's a good place. So I do a lot of journal prompts that are, I am safe. I am safe in my body, I am safe. In this relationship, I am safe. Regardless of what this person thinks. A lot of safety prompts, because when you feel safe, I feel like you're less controlled by shame.

[Sophia Bush]

Yeah.

[Lilly Singh]

You know, shame is just all about control. That's all it is.

[Sophia Bush]

Well, and shame, fear, anxiety, all of it contracts. And really what happens when you contract is you get smaller.

[Lilly Singh]

Right.

[Sophia Bush]

And society teaches women that they are safe if they are small.

[Lilly Singh]

So one is safety. And I'll tell you another one, which is, I do this often. Again, pragmatic, pragmatic things. In terms of liberation, I think another big thing to get rid of shame is just liberation, just freedom of choice to be able to just do whatever feels right for me. And so very often when I'm making a choice about anything, it could be what I'm doing tonight. Do I want to go on this trip? Do I want to go to this friend's house? Is it about sex? Whatever. I will be like, I want you to list out, Lily, every possible option you have, even if it's so far fetched. So, example. Yeah, this morning I was like, I'm really tired. What are all of my options? Okay, you could go do Sophia's podcast. You could completely cancel on her and go to Hawaii right now if you wanted to. You could go to the club right now. You could go smoke a J. If you want to smoke a J. You could do whatever, list all the options and then based on that, be like. And I'm deciding to do this just to remind yourself that you actually have the freedom to do whatever the hell you want.

[Sophia Bush]

Yes.

[Lilly Singh]

I have a challenge for all the listeners here. Some days and pick a day. Can't be every day, but some days I will journal in the morning. I'll say, today, my only intention is you can operate from a lot of different places. You can operate from a place of fear, you can operate from a place of stress. You can operate from place of anxiety. On a select day, I challenge, if you haven't done yet, to be like today. My only goal is to operate out of a place of what do I actually want? That is the only filter for the decisions you make that day. Don't pick a Saturday, pick a Sunday. Be like, today, I'm only doing the things that I genuinely. And you're going to find that you do things out of habit sometimes that you actually don't even want to do.

[Sophia Bush]

Totally.

[Lilly Singh]

But if you just ask yourself, what do I actually want to do today? You learn a lot about yourself. You really do. Because most of the things we do in a day are the things we think we have to do, not the things that actually fulfill us.

[Sophia Bush]

Yes. Because we feel obligated.

[Lilly Singh]

Correct. This is therapy.

[Sophia Bush]

I love it.

[Lilly Singh]

Cancel your session for after this. You don't need it.

[Sophia Bush]

Okay. And now for our sponsors.

[Podcast Host (Sponsor Announcer)]

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[Sophia Bush]

For that and I'm pretty sure you don't either.

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[Sophia Bush]

Their makeup and skin care products are.

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[Lilly Singh]

Yay.

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[Sophia Bush]

Now look, see, this is where I'm like, I have questions for you, but, but Those are for FaceTime. Okay, so I'm looking at my doc going, what would I like to discuss with you?

[Lilly Singh]

Do it, do it, do it.

[Sophia Bush]

Okay, this really, I think, actually encapsulates the big conversation about how society does and doesn't make space for us, what we have to claim, what we have to fight for. How I think storytelling can help us do that. We've talked a lot in so many arenas about representation, but the word almost feels trite to me now. Feels kind of like a token rather than a shift. Because it isn't enough to just get in the room. It isn't enough to just get a seat at the table. So when you think about that, when you think about not getting a seat at the table, building a new table, like what is your ideal table look like because you've built a pretty big one so far. But I'm curious what it, what the journey of that looks like, what the expansion of that looks like for you.

[Lilly Singh]

Yeah. So I. The reason I'm so proud of doing it is it's my production company's first film, actually, and that is my start of building a table. And so part of building the table is making sure that the stories that the world needs that are actual diverse stories and get to be told by those people in unfiltered ways. Because I feel like one of the things that drives me crazy about Hollywood and probably all industries, but Hollywood in general, it's supposed to be a creative industry, but behind the scenes, it is the least creative space ever. They want to put people in boxes. People who aren't creatives are giving notes on creative projects because they are. Their job is to give notes on creative projects. It's. We want unique points of view and unique characters, but we're going to give you all these notes to turn them into a generic, watered down version of that.

[Sophia Bush]

Yes.

[Lilly Singh]

So there's a lot of things that just do not work for me. And so my table is throwing all that out the window. It is. I want stories to be told from the people experiencing those stories. And I want to create a system where just because it's how it's been done, I don't want to. I don't want notes that make my stories more palatable for people because they don't have that experience. Like, that's not okay with me. Like maybe you could learn something new if you see my point of view.

[Sophia Bush]

But also it doesn't even have to be that deep. It's not like you're going to learn something new. It's. It's a real point of view and so you'll relate to it. Also, if it isn't your story because it's specific, it will remind you of something you've seen or known or someone. And if it becomes vanilla, it's going to be the like Pier 1 that you walk into and go, I don't want any of this in my house. And walk right back out.

[Lilly Singh]

Right.

[Sophia Bush]

It has to have a point of view, otherwise it isn't special.

[Lilly Singh]

And those point of views can vary. We've seen one point of view for a really long time and it's like we need to see all the word. Yes. I will also just say, forget spirituality. Forget all stuff. Economically, diversity is profitable. We've seen it time and time again. And I feel like what Drives me crazy about the other table. The one that sucks is that every time diversity does really well, it's an exception. The Barbie movie Black Panther Sinners, there's so many. The exception. Exception.

[Sophia Bush]

Oh, wow.

[Lilly Singh]

No, it's. People want diversity. If you look at the box office numbers, people. The people that go to a movie theater are mostly people of color. They're the ones that are driving the box office. So it's like, stop ignoring the stats. Stop ignoring the data. Stop. Even if you don't care about just being a good person that wants different stories to exist, it's how you look at the business of it. Look at the business of it alone. And so that's what my table looks like. And looking at the actual stats and business and letting stories be told from the people that experience those stories. I don't believe in this filter of, like, our stories need to go through this system of people that think they know better. They're making it up. Listen, I'm not saying replace. I'm saying there's room for all stories. There's room for all. So we got to stop playing ourselves that. It's so tired.

[Sophia Bush]

That part. And that's the thing. Much like we all. Nobody wants to go to the same restaurant every Friday night. Nobody wants to see the same movie every Friday night. Like, give us some variety so we can enjoy ourselves. And to your point, even if you're not caught up with. On the. On the moral core of equity, look at the math.

[Lilly Singh]

Absolutely.

[Sophia Bush]

I talk about that in terms of, like, activism, in terms of investing in women's sports, in terms of things like making film and television. When the math and the morals meet, it's literally undeniable.

[Lilly Singh]

There's no other way to slice.

[Sophia Bush]

It's only a very niche group of people trying to deny Right. What's right in front of their faces.

[Lilly Singh]

Right.

[Sophia Bush]

So on that subject matter, this might be your first. Your first zone of the table for film, but you've been building big tables in sport, in content creation, as a writer, as a director, as an investor. Like, talk to us about the thesis of Unicorn Island.

[Lilly Singh]

Sure, yeah.

[Sophia Bush]

And for listeners that hear this and say, I want to be involved in something like that. Yeah. Where do they go?

[Lilly Singh]

Unicorn island is my company name because I'm an adult and I can call it whatever I want.

[Sophia Bush]

Yeah.

[Lilly Singh]

Okay. I can call you Caroline if I want. And that's what I do. So it's called Unicorn Island. It has two parts, Unicorn Island Productions, which is, again, going back to my film. But then there's Unicorn Island Fund, which is the charitable. Charitable part of it. And the thesis is the same across both, which is the belief that storytelling can impact culture. And more specifically, that you can use storytelling to change the way girls and women are valued. So I'm all my entire life mission is girls and women. That is the chip on my shoulder. That is the thing that keeps me up at night. That is. That wakes me up in the morning. Girls and women, we have lots of trauma to justify why that is. But you can watch my TED Talk if you want to have more on that. But I just really believe that one of the greatest injustices is the fact that 50 of the world population doesn't get the opportunity, doesn't have the rights, doesn't get the education. Yes. It makes. No, going back to math, not mathing. The human race is literally discrediting 50 of their team.

[Sophia Bush]

Yes.

[Lilly Singh]

And I don't know if you checked, the world is in a pretty bad place.

[Sophia Bush]

Yeah. It turns out it's not working out great.

[Lilly Singh]

What I'm saying, in terms of climate, in terms of poverty, in terms of so many things, it makes no sense, no matter how you look at it, to not give girls and women the opportunities and education and rights and resources they need. It makes no sense. It hurts everyone. And so Unicorn. Unicorn island is all about how do we change the culture around how girls and women are treated? And why I emphasize culture is because. And we specifically do this through de. Weaponizing shame. That's why I'm so big on shame, because it's easy to give money to causes. And the best example I give is in so many places around the world. It's not that the school doesn't exist. It's not that the road doesn't exist to the school. It's not that the bus doesn't exist. It's that a father believes his daughter should not be sent to school.

[Sophia Bush]

Yes.

[Lilly Singh]

Right. That is the problem. You can't throw money at that particular problem. You can throw it at all the other pieces of that equation. But that problem gets changed by culture. That problem gets changed by changing that dad's mind and empowering that young girl to be able to speak up and speak out and be safe in doing so. And how do you do that? Now, I've gone across different villages in India and different cities in India being like, what do you watch? Where do you get your stories from? Where do you get your ideas from? And it's always a story in some capacity. There's actually a study done in one rural village in India, which was really, really cool. There was an Indian soap opera that was, like, just two seasons long, and they tracked people's opinions about child marriage in that village over these two seasons of the soap opera. And the soap opera was very simple. Just had a woman who got married later in life. Like, her parents wanted to get married younger. And through the season, you see her parents, like, be okay with her getting married older. And in that village, literally, the rate of girls getting married got older just through that soap opera. So you see the direct correlation between stories and movies and actors. And actors and all these things in real life. And so that's what Unicorn is all about. You know, I have conversations with a lot of influential people about taboo subjects and hopes that people can watch and be like, oh, I. I cannot open up about these subjects, whether it's sex, whether it's mental health, whether it's about abuse, domestic violence, whatever it may be. That's one way we do it. But doing it is just the. The tip of the iceberg of what we're trying to do in terms of, like, we want to change the way the world values girls and women.

[Sophia Bush]

Yes.

[Lilly Singh]

In a really, really big, real way.

[Sophia Bush]

I love that. Yeah. And to your point, telling people's stories and centering them is relevant to everyone. I mean, you look at the. You look at the data around the way that in this country, opinions about marriage equality changed during the course of Will and Grace being on tv because people went, oh, I like. I like that guy. Yeah, he's great.

[Lilly Singh]

Totally.

[Sophia Bush]

He shouldn't be denied the right to be in a hospital with his spouse or the right to have a spouse at all. Like, why? And I think it's a really important thing, you know, even as we look around the country we live in now, men's rights don't vary from state to state, but women's do.

[Lilly Singh]

Correct.

[Sophia Bush]

And they're trying to make queer people's rights vary from state to state. And that's not America. That's not freedom. That's not the founding documents of equality. That's a system that is, at its core, unjust. And if we can tell stories that don't rile everybody up on the quick political factoid, but instead remind people that their neighbors are good people, whether they're sons or daughters, gay or straight, like, it's incredibly important, I think, especially to be the antidote to some of this kind of poison for profit that we see in the clickbait and the rage bait right now.

[Lilly Singh]

What's your, like, demo of people listening to this majority women, is it men? Would you know?

[Sophia Bush]

I mean, it's definitely a majority women on this show, but I do really like when I get. When I get the boys that are like, oh, I just love the podcast. And now it's also really cute because I. We've been on long enough that I get dads that are like, my daughter started putting your podcast on in the cart. Now she gets mad when I listen.

[Podcast Host (Sponsor Announcer)]

To episodes before she's listening to them.

[Sophia Bush]

And it's like, I love that. I feel like a sweet dad telling me he loves me.

[Lilly Singh]

The reason I ask is because I feel like a lot of times as an. I been talking about gender equality and gender equity for a long time, and I know sometimes the immediate response from a lot of men is like an eye roll to be like, oh, my God, this again. Use the gender card. I really do feel like it's not known enough. All the negative ways men are impacted by.

[Sophia Bush]

Yes.

[Lilly Singh]

Gender inequity and. And the patriarchy.

[Sophia Bush]

Yes.

[Lilly Singh]

And as if you're a man listening to this or if you're a woman and you're like, I know a man that could probably hear this. If you really think that the patriarchy and the stuff doesn't impact you, like, I want you men to reflect on every moment. You feel so stressed and anxious because you are just burdened with expectations of, like, can't talk about your mental health. You're not allowed to cry. You were expected to be the breadwinner. You expect it to be tough. You probably didn't get to follow your passion. Maybe when you were younger, you were told you couldn't do X, Y, Z because you were a boy. Like, all of that is the patriarchy.

[Sophia Bush]

Yeah.

[Lilly Singh]

So when we talk about gender equity, we're also talking about liberating men and boys in a very, very real way.

[Sophia Bush]

Totally.

[Lilly Singh]

There was a study recently done in India where, like, young boys were. Were surveyed to be, like, just about their mental health and what their family lives. And the amount of young boys that say, I don't remember the last time I was hugged, like, hugged. Now you tell me, do you think that gardeners are healthy adult men who, if you've never been exposed to affection and never been told you've done a good job or you're allowed to cry or you're allowed to have emotions, you are also going through a mental health crisis.

[Sophia Bush]

Yes.

[Lilly Singh]

A lot of men. Right. And so, like, really, truly, I mean, from the bottom of my heart, when we talk about gender equity, we're talking about the betterment of every person, not just girls and women. Women. And you should research this more because there's so many stats about this.

[Sophia Bush]

Yes.

[Lilly Singh]

So many. Economies would flourish.

[Sophia Bush]

100%.

[Lilly Singh]

Governments would be more peaceful. Like, there's so many stats about this.

[Sophia Bush]

And we know it to be true. And that's the thing, too. Like, there's this misnomer, Right. That, for example, if we created gender equity in terms of pay parity, the men are like. Then we'd be getting paid less. And it's like, no. But the GDP of this country. If I snapped my fingers and everyone was getting paid the same, and I. In America, the actual GDP of the country would increase by 14 points.

[Lilly Singh]

Correct.

[Sophia Bush]

So everyone would just have more money, which would also mean you wouldn't be so stressed about making so much money, because your partner would also have money, and then everyone would just be able to go on vacation, and then we.

[Lilly Singh]

Just have our yachts next to each other.

[Sophia Bush]

Sounds really nice.

[Lilly Singh]

It sounds like you're preventing us from having our yachts next to each other if you're in. In disagreement with us. To be honest, I don't even need a yacht.

[Sophia Bush]

I just need, like, a boat that can pull a wakeboard and.

[Lilly Singh]

I'm sorry. There you go. And you know what? If you believe in the patriarchy, you're preventing that from happening. You heard it here first.

[Sophia Bush]

You're denying me my wakeboarding?

[Lilly Singh]

Absolutely. Absolutely, sir.

[Sophia Bush]

Well, not that you need anything more on your plate, but I know you love to have things on your plate.

[Lilly Singh]

I. I do love.

[Sophia Bush]

Like you. Love you. I think we're similar in this way, that. In that the more there is for us to touch and learn and focus on, the. The more kind of whole we feel.

[Lilly Singh]

Absolutely.

[Sophia Bush]

The more excited we feel. So when you survey this big landscape of everything you have going on and everything coming up, what feels like your work in progress.

[Lilly Singh]

Hmm. Okay, so I'm gonna give you an. I don't know if you're gonna like this answer, but this is my most honest answer. Okay. I've been very actively trying to learn that my. These projects that I love so much and the work that I do and I love so much, and my accolades and accomplishments are not actually my identity. Okay. So what my real work in progress is, Lily, it's always going to be me. It's going to be the evolution of who I am. It's. I love this movie, and I hope it does really well. And I do have. Of course, I naturally have expectations, but how I value those expectations is very different from how I would have valued them a year, like a decade ago, honestly. So my work in progress is to be a student for life. I'm a big. That is my, like, life mission is to be. It's my most recent tattoo. It's like student for life. I want to learn as much as possible. I want to evolve as much as possible, possible. I don't want to stay the same. I want to grow every single day. And that is my work in progress. I want to master my mind to the best of my ability. I want to be as self aware as I possibly can be. I want to learn about people. I want to learn about things. I want to be proven wrong. I want to fail a million more times. I want to win a million more times. My work in progress is always going to be my mind and my spirituality and my growth. Always Beautiful.

[Sophia Bush]

Yeah. I love it.

[Lilly Singh]

And hopefully along the way, I can have some good box office numbers and I can have a successful movie or two also. But those things are not who I am.

[Sophia Bush]

Yeah.

[Lilly Singh]

You know what I mean?

[Sophia Bush]

Yeah. If. If your job had to change tomorrow, who you are stays with you.

[Lilly Singh]

Exactly. Because, you know, tomorrow I could just as easily be an event planner. You know this so.

[Sophia Bush]

Oh, my God, you're so good at it.

[Lilly Singh]

I could. I could make a charcuterie board at the drop of a hat right here. You know it.

[Sophia Bush]

That is always my party. My party trek. But I feel like you. You could do the charcuterie board and also the entire interior in the time it would probably take the rest of us to just do the board.

[Lilly Singh]

So I could be an event. Thank you so much. It's the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me. Thank you.

[Sophia Bush]

Really. I see you. I see you and I love you and I thank you for coming.

[Lilly Singh]

I see you and I love you and I thank you for having me. Thank you.

[Sophia Bush]

Proud of you.

[Lilly Singh]

You're so hot.

[Sophia Bush]

He.

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[Sophia Bush]

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[Lilly Singh]

This is an I Heart podcast.