Work in Progress with Sophia Bush

Episode: Malala Yousafzai
Date: November 12, 2025
Podcast Host: Sophia Bush
Guest: Malala Yousafzai

Overview

In this deeply personal and engaging episode, Sophia Bush sits down with Malala Yousafzai, global education advocate and the youngest Nobel Peace Prize laureate. Together, they explore Malala’s journey from her childhood in Pakistan under Taliban rule, through surviving an assassination attempt, to her ongoing struggles and triumphs as an activist, student, and young woman finding her way in the world. The conversation is candid, touching on trauma, healing, friendship, identity, joy, and the ongoing fight for girls’ education and empowerment.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Childhood in Swat Valley & Early Activism

• Pre-Taliban Memories:
  • Malala reminisces about her peaceful childhood: “We were surrounded by beautiful mountains, we lived by the rivers and I loved being closer to nature.” (07:36)
  • Despite political instability, moments of “laughter, the giggles with friends” persisted.
• Taliban Takeover:
  • The introduction of oppressive rules, especially against girls' education.
  • “Education is such a powerful tool that the people who do not want to see women empowered, they take education first from women.” (10:33)
• Family’s Role:
  • Malala credits her supportive father, an activist himself, with empowering her to speak out.
  • Memorable quote:

    “Oftentimes it’s the men who clip the wings of their daughters… My dad is asked what he did for his daughter. He says, ‘Don’t ask me what I did, ask me what I didn’t do. I didn’t clip her wings.’” – Malala (14:10)

2. Activism and Survival

• Choosing to Speak Out:
  • As a child, Malala feared a life without education more than the Taliban:

    “I was more scared of a life without education. That future was dark.” (16:23)

• Surviving Trauma:
  • Reflects on the aftermath of being shot and the realities of healing, both physical and mental.
  • Discusses the pressure to “recover quickly” and how therapy became essential—though initially stigmatized:

    “I always associated my recovery with the physical injuries. And once the surgery was done, I said, I am fully recovered… But this was that open wound.” (21:36)

  • First panic attack in college led her to therapy, which she now embraces as ongoing care.

3. Therapy, Mental Health, and Personal Growth

• Destigmatizing Therapy:
  • Malala’s journey from skepticism to advocacy for mental health:

    “Now I embrace therapy as part of my journey… I realized I need it more.” (27:55)

• Balancing Activism and Wellbeing:
  • Learning to prioritize herself:

    “I would not be able to deliver my best on the things that I care about if I do not look after myself.” (31:07)

  • Sophia reframes therapy as “brain Pilates,” relating how activists struggle to invest in their own care.

4. The Cost of Early Fame & Reclaiming Joy

• Loss of Normalcy:
  • Malala missed out on a “normal” adolescence due to activism, security risks, and high expectations.
  • “I missed the old Malala that I was in Pakistan. Mischievous, funny, loud. I loved cracking jokes…” (35:16)
• College & Rediscovering Herself:
  • Oxford became a space for personal freedom and fun: “I chose socializing over studying… climbing the college rooftop, talking about boys. I wanted to do all of that.” (49:18)
• On Evolving in the Public Eye:
  • The Nobel Prize heightened her sense of being under a microscope, making it harder to just be “a girl” or date normally.

5. Activism Amid Regression & Global Reflection

• Frustration with Global Setbacks:
  • Discusses gender apartheid in Afghanistan and the rollback of women’s rights worldwide.

  • “When an Afghan girl has not seen a classroom for four and a half years, it breaks my heart... These words [equity, feminism] mean nothing if we cannot act.” (44:41)

• Pushing for Systemic Change:
  • Recognizes the need for lasting, structural change, not just hashtags:

    “Maybe we thought one accomplishment… that the job is done. No. We need… a lasting change.” (47:08)

• Maintaining Hope & Motivation:
  • “I have become more pessimistic now, but it doesn’t stop me from the way I do my work. It actually makes me work harder…” (46:13)

6. Friendship, Love, and Vulnerability

• On College Friendships:
  • Finding friends interested in “what I was up to with my assignments… not what happened when I was attacked.” (50:49)
• College Romance:
  • Shares an endearing story of college crushes—helping a boy mostly interested in snacks—and falling for Asar, her now-husband.
• Navigating Public Life and Love:
  • The realities of dating with security (guards present!) and questioning partners about gender roles:

    “If your wife earns more than you, would you have a problem with that?” – Malala (60:37)

  • Ultimately, she found comfort and partnership:

    “When I was with him, every question just disappeared. I knew he was the one.” (61:08)

7. Empowering Girls through Sports

• Launching Project Recess:
  • Malala and her husband advocate for increased access to women’s sports, linking athletic participation to leadership roles for girls.

    “Sports should be a career option for girls from any part of the world.” (62:31)

• Access and Equity Issues:
  • Sophia shares that “84% of women in C-suites played high school or collegiate sports” but by 13, 50% of girls drop out.

8. Her New Book: Finding My Way

• A Vulnerable, Honest Narrative:
  • Malala describes the book as “the most personal reflections I have ever shared.” (67:12)
  • Explores embracing her full, sometimes awkward, self—as more than a global symbol.
  • On true courage:

    “Even when I have a panic attack, it does not stop me from my activism. Now I think this is true bravery.” (69:32)

• Looking Forward:
  • Excited for her book tour, meeting young people, and starting new conversations about courage, recovery, and authenticity.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Men as Allies:

  “Don’t ask me what I did, ask me what I didn’t do. I didn’t clip her wings.” – Malala (quoting her father) (14:10)

• On Roots of Activism:

  “I was more scared of a life without education. That future was dark.” – Malala (16:23)

• On True Healing:

  “This was that open wound that we did not heal.” – Malala (21:36)

• On the Ongoing Fight:

  “When I witness the reality of how a girl, like, in 2025 in Afghanistan is banned from education… it is frightening that still we have to defend it.” – Malala (45:29)

• On Public Expectations:

  “Somehow now I’m supposed to be… this grown, saintly kind of activist who has to meet this expectation of, like, being the same person. She cannot learn about herself... she has to be this fixed version of herself now.” – Malala (35:35)

• On Rediscovering Joy:

  “I wanted to do all of that because just that normal life of a college girl… was something I had missed.” – Malala (49:18)

• On Vulnerability:

  “Even when I have a panic attack, it does not stop me from my activism… Now I think this is true bravery. This is true courage.” – Malala (69:32)

Important Segment Timestamps

| Time | Discussion Segment | |-------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 05:40 | Introduction of Malala, reflection on childhood and activism origins | | 07:26 | Memories of Swat Valley before & after Taliban | | 12:23 | Family conversations about oppression & role of Islam | | 16:20 | Why she chose activism at risk of her own life | | 18:56 | On surviving the Taliban attack and journey to mental healing | | 27:55 | Embracing therapy and ongoing mental health practices | | 35:16 | Struggles with loss of normal teenage years | | 44:03 | Reflection on global regressions in women’s rights; call for lasting change | | 49:18 | College life, friendships, and learning to “just be a girl” again | | 53:36 | College romance and finding herself | | 62:31 | Discussion of Project Recess and empowering girls in sports | | 67:12 | Writing her new book and embracing personal awkwardness | | 70:29 | Looking forward: Book tour, meeting young people, and being her authentic self |

Episode Tone

The conversation is warm, candid, and occasionally irreverent—Malala and Sophia blend humor, vulnerability, and seriousness. Malala’s reflections are honest and relatable, revealing a multidimensional woman behind the global icon.

Conclusion

This episode offers an intimate look into Malala Yousafzai’s inner life—her fears, hopes, and hard-won joy. It challenges listeners to reconsider what true bravery and activism look like, and how self-care and authenticity are essential to meaningful progress. Malala’s new book and ongoing activism invite everyone—not just girls—to join her in pursuing equity, healing, and possibility.