Work in Progress: Whitney Cummings

Summary

Podcast Summary: Work in Progress with Sophia Bush – Episode: Whitney Cummings

Introduction

In the March 20, 2025 episode of Work in Progress with Sophia Bush, host Sophia Bush welcomes back one of her favorite early guests, the award-winning comedian Whitney Cummings. Known for her sharp humor and insightful observations, Whitney discusses her journey through motherhood, personal growth, societal expectations, and mental health. Currently touring with her "Big Baby North America" tour, Whitney delves into themes of relationships, gender dynamics, and modern dating from the perspective of a new mother.

Friendship and Monetizing Relationships

Sophia opens the conversation by reminiscing about their first encounter on the podcast in 2019 and the plans they made before the pandemic intervened.

Sophia [00:30]: “One of our favorite early guests is back on the podcast. Today we are joined by none other than award-winning comedian Whitney Cummings.”

Whitney humorously addresses the evolving nature of friendships, especially among female comedians:

Whitney [02:27]: “we do also get to socialize for public consumption, which is slightly toxic but also radically feminist to just monetize our friendships.”

Sophia adds to the humor by sharing an anecdote about avoiding “free feet” in podcast setups, emphasizing the commercialization of personal interactions.

Motherhood and Societal Expectations

The conversation shifts to Whitney’s experience as a mother. She playfully mentions how her toddler interacts with her "inner child."

Sophia [03:14]: “Hello. You have a baby.”

Whitney [03:07]: “I have a baby.”

Whitney reflects on societal pressures regarding motherhood and relationships:

Whitney [03:14]: “I guess I just have to date a guy who wears a rope as a belt.”

She advises women to "freeze their eggs" as an insurance policy against societal timelines for having children.

Freezing Eggs and Dating Post-Intervention

Whitney shares her personal decision to freeze her eggs at 33, comparing it to car insurance:

Whitney [03:48]: “Freeze your eggs. It's like an insurance policy. You get car insurance. The goal is you never actually get in a car accident.”

She discusses the challenges of dating while contemplating parenthood and the stigma associated with age and pregnancy:

Whitney [04:41]: “At 35, they say geriatric insane.”

Vulnerability and Co-Parenting

Whitney elaborates on her approach to co-parenting, emphasizing radical acceptance and maintaining a positive environment for her son:

Whitney [14:28]: “We started co-parenting, like, from the beginning, and it's such a blast.”

She highlights the importance of being open and supportive without harboring resentment, ensuring her son views his parents as good friends.

Overcoming Hyper Independence

Both Sophia and Whitney discuss their journeys from hyper-independence rooted in childhood trauma to healthier, more balanced relationships. Whitney emphasizes the necessity of allowing oneself to receive love and support.

Whitney [27:34]: “It helped me to learn receiving isn't weak. It doesn't mean you're stupid. It doesn't mean you need a man or need a relationship or you're pathetic or weak.”

Sophia shares her epiphany about her parents' ability to heal together despite past conflicts, reinforcing the importance of forgiveness and understanding.

Postpartum Depression and Mental Health Journey

Whitney candidly discusses her battle with postpartum depression, detailing the emotional and mental shifts she experienced after childbirth. She explains how leaving medications like Prozac impacted her mental health:

Whitney [34:33]: “I did go on first 10 milligrams of Prozac and then up to 20 milligrams of Prozac, which just kind of cuts the perseveration in the loop and, like, kind of in half for me.”

Sophia empathizes, sharing her own experiences with mental health challenges and the importance of self-care.

Creative Return and Embracing New Life

Whitney talks about her struggle to reconnect with her creativity post-childbirth, eventually finding solace in simple activities like gardening. She emphasizes the importance of taking time to process emotions and slow down:

Whitney [51:05]: “Let me just be a person. And then the clarity started coming back.”

Sophia and Whitney agree on the necessity of slowing down and prioritizing mental well-being over constant productivity.

Laughter, Vulnerability, and Mental Health

The duo explores the therapeutic power of laughter and vulnerability. Whitney underscores how her experiences have reshaped her approach to comedy and personal relationships:

Whitney [57:06]: “Come see live stand up. Because it really is like anathema and alternative data to what we're seeing online every day.”

They discuss the decline of genuine human connection in the digital age and the importance of face-to-face interactions in fostering empathy and understanding.

Slowing Down and Personal Growth

Whitney emphasizes the value of slowing down as a means of personal growth and emotional maturity. She advocates for practices like gratitude lists and mindfulness to cultivate inner peace:

Whitney [72:28]: “Doing nothing is a thing, you know?”

Sophia adds that free time is the greatest luxury, challenging societal norms that equate busyness with success.

Notable Quotes

• Whitney Cummings [03:48]: “I froze my eggs when I was 33. Highly recommend.”

• Whitney Cummings [14:28]: “We started co-parenting, like, from the beginning, and it's such a blast.”

• Whitney Cummings [27:34]: “It doesn't mean you're stupid. It doesn't mean you need a man or need a relationship or you're pathetic or weak.”

• Whitney Cummings [34:33]: “I couldn't remember the most basic things. I couldn't make jokes. I couldn't write jokes. Like, I just was, like, I was really scared.”

• Whitney Cummings [57:06]: “Come see live stand up. Because it really is like anathema and alternative data to what we're seeing online every day.”

• Whitney Cummings [72:28]: “Doing nothing is a thing, you know?”

Conclusion

The episode concludes on a high note, with both Sophia and Whitney expressing mutual admiration and support for each other's growth and journeys. They celebrate their progress in overcoming past traumas, embracing vulnerability, and fostering meaningful connections.

Whitney Cummings [75:42]: “We're the best.”

Sophia [75:45]: “We ended on such a high note.”

This episode of Work in Progress with Sophia Bush offers a deeply personal and insightful conversation with Whitney Cummings, highlighting the complexities of modern motherhood, the importance of mental health, and the power of vulnerability and genuine human connection.

Transcript

[T Mobile Ad]

Go almost everywhere with the podcasts you love on T Mobile's network. Because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now. Keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com keepandswitch up to 4 lines of your virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service support in 90 plus days device, knowledgeable carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months.

[Sophia]

Hi everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Hey Whip Smarties. One of our favorite early guests is back on the podcast. Today we are joined by none other than award winning comedian Whitney Cummings. You know her for her bold observations, humor and currently she is on the road with her Big Baby North America tour exploring some pretty signature themes of relationships, gender dynamics and modern dating from a very new perspective. That includes being a mom, what it's like to age, and societal expectations of all those things. She has so many great stories and laughs and, and so much wisdom to share and I'm just so thrilled that she is here today. So let's dive in. Foreign. I'm so happy to have you back. I feel like we had the best conversation. You were one of my first guests on the pod in 2019. We made all these plans to hang out and ride horses and then the world shut down.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

And I was like, oh, I guess I'm just never going to be social again. But I feel like we're getting, we're getting back to it now.

[Whitney Cummings]

I also think, I mean, this might be a hot take, but like we do also get to socialize for public consumption, which is slightly toxic but also radically feminist to just monetize our friendships. Like everyone's too busy. Whatever. I mean, it is funny because whenever I hang out with a girlfriend of mine or run into a female comic friend of mine at the Comedy Store, it's always like 10 minutes in to where they're like, shit, do you want a pod? Why are we doing this for free?

[Sophia]

Oh my God, I'm obsessed. We were just saying we were getting the, the camera set up for this and it was a little wide and they were like, oh well, we can see your feet on the couch. I was like, no, no free feet.

[Whitney Cummings]

That is so funny.

[Sophia]

No one gets free feet. And you're right, no one. No one should get free free hangs either.

[Whitney Cummings]

I guess yeah, it's like women make money from, you know, exploiting their bodies. We exploit our personalities and vulnerabilities and personal lives.

[Sophia]

I'll take it. I'll take it. We'll talk about, I mean, changes in personal lives for both of us. Hello. You have a baby.

[Whitney Cummings]

I have a baby.

[Sophia]

How is being a mom?

[Whitney Cummings]

Well, the good news is, currently my toddler gets along well with my inner child.

[Sophia]

Okay, great.

[Whitney Cummings]

The concern was, are they. Is my inner child and my actual child going to get along? And they do. It's a trip. I mean, look, I don't have to tell you. Like, I just always thought in order to have a kid, you have to have the guy. And so my brain, like, you know, just this socially constructed timeline, even though half the people in my life at least got the guy, then the kid, then broke up with the guy, but I was still going, you gotta get the guy first. Even though there was very little proof that that was a working formula.

[Sophia]

Right?

[Whitney Cummings]

Or anyone. And I froze my eggs when I was 33. Highly recommend. Whenever anyone asks me for advice about literally anything, I just go, don't ask your parents for a trip to Italy when you graduate. Or those shoes or that purse. Just go freeze your eggs. It's like an insurance policy. You get car insurance. The goal is you never actually get in a car accident. Just put your on ice. For many reasons. Because I did find myself doing this math, you know, like, okay, I'm 32, I'm dating this guy. All we have a year before we. And then a year would take a year to get pregnant. And then I'm like dating guy with a chain wallet because I'm lowering my bar over and over. Like, I guess I just have to date a guy who wears a rope as a belt. All right. You know, because you start doing the math of like the cutoff, they start calling it a geriatric pregnancy. At 35, they say geriatric insane.

[Sophia]

Like insane.

[Whitney Cummings]

75 year old Smithers told me I was having a geriatric. So I was kind of like, I guess I'm never gonna have a kid. I guess I'm gonna adopt. I did kind of for a while because, you know, this year, like this too, I rescue anim. And I was like, maybe I should adopt. Like, is having your own kid kind of like getting a dog from a breeder at this point? Like, I should be adopting. There's so many kids, who needs homes? And then I went through pretty hardcore grief after the pandemic, which all of us just scrambled our Brains. I did experiment with edibles during the pandemic.

[Sophia]

Oh.

[Whitney Cummings]

Wasn't a match for my brain.

[Sophia]

Okay.

[Whitney Cummings]

So was making a lot of bad choices in the romantic area.

[Sophia]

I did that, too. It's okay.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah. I mean, it was just like, two edibles, and I'm dating a rock climber. Like. Like, should we be legal? Unclear. And also, a bigger thing is I was on birth control, which I was on for migraines, I think. You know, I got these date piercings. The piercings on the inside of your ear on both sides.

[Sophia]

Does it help?

[Whitney Cummings]

Placebo effect is an effect. So if that's why it works fine, 60% effective. I'm obsessed with opening a medical practice that's just placebo effect because placebo effect is actually higher than the effect of most.

[Sophia]

Yes.

[Whitney Cummings]

Drugs.

[Sophia]

While kind of a genius idea.

[Whitney Cummings]

And so I was on birth control, which there's all this sort of. Look. I'm the first person to poke holes and, like, research. But showing that when you're on birth control, you're attracted to a different kind of partner because you smell pheromones differently. Your body thinks it's, you know, so you're attracted to a different kind of person. They say that if you're going to get married, get engaged, go off birth control for a year before you get the government involved to make sure that you're still attracted to that person.

[Sophia]

Wow.

[Whitney Cummings]

So I went off birth control. I went off Prozac in my, like, grief. I just forgot to take it all, you know, And. And I was hanging out with this awesome, awesome guy who, you know, it's interesting. Like, this might sound savage, but I think there's something so cool about it where I was like, look, I know I'm not your match. And look, in exes, my new favorite thing is to just go, we weren't a match.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

I don't have to give them a diagnosis. They're a narcissist. They're this maybe. But also, we just weren't a match. And, like, that's fine. And instead of, like, carrying all these negative terms about exes, you know, and so we're just not a match. Like, they are a pathological liar, and I'm not. I mean, I know a thing or two about that. Well, they're actors. They lie for a living. They win prizes for lying. So, you know, But I try to just, like, take all that negativity out of it and whatever hit of superiority I need to, like, you know, we. I was like, I know we're not a Match. He's younger than me, and I'm like, look, I want you to be able to, like, have all these, like, life experiences with somebody who isn't so road hard and put away wet and so, like, Hawaii overrated. Like, you should be able to go enjoy it.

[Sophia]

Go to Cancun, please.

[Whitney Cummings]

And this. There is this next generation of younger guys that are, like, actually, like, not monsters. They grew up with, like, Beyonce and Michelle Obama. Like, they kind of only saw a black president, you know, for most of their life. And, you know, they grew up with, like, Brene Brown. And a lot of video games, I gotta say, are, like, about chivalry, and a lot of them are about killing hookers. But there's some that are, you know, there's these Dungeons and Dragons guys and these. They're very cringe, but, like, Ren Faire guys.

[Sophia]

Oh, One of my best friends, and I love a Ren Faire. Very, very, very pro.

[Whitney Cummings]

Sophia. Wait, we're. No, I have. Okay, so are we going? No. Are we going? I've already DM'd Ren Fair. I'm trying to be the queen for the, for the year, so the Ren Fair queen. The. It's.

[Sophia]

I want to be in your court.

[Whitney Cummings]

It's a year.

[Sophia]

I'm ready.

[Whitney Cummings]

I DM them and they. And they actually, I'm on. I've been left on red by the.

[Sophia]

Ren Fair, so they've seen it. Wow. Okay.

[Whitney Cummings]

And it's. It's tougher than, like, getting rejected on Raya. You don't know rejection until the Ren Fair is like, we're good. But Lindsey Sterling and I go together, and, and here's this thing. I, I, I'm so curious, and I want to shut up asap. I'm gonna get TMJ on this podcast. But I just am so excited to talk to you. Is there anything that you're doing in life as an adult? Because I'm always looking for, like, hobbies as entertainers. It's like, what do we do to be entertained? Where you're doing something kind of to make fun of it or kind of as a joke, and then you're like, no, I'm just doing it. Like, I've been to the Ren Faire now, like, six times, like, as a joke, and I'm like, yeah, I just go to the Ren Fair.

[Sophia]

Okay. So, yes, I have discovered, and I thought it was ironic and that I was being very contrarian and silly with my girlfriends. I'm just a Disney adult, and I didn't know I was a Disney adult, but Then I went to Disneyland, went on rides with all my friends, ate corn dogs all day. Every delicious food from around the world, including little beignets, are at Disneyland. And I was like, oh, I used to be like, why are grownups going to Disneyland? And I want to go all the time.

[Whitney Cummings]

Okay, let's break this down because I think I'm someone who historically maybe poked fun at Disney adults because I didn't have Disney in my childhood.

[Sophia]

I think we went one time in my childhood, like, I don't know. It's great.

[Whitney Cummings]

I went one time. One of my best girlfriends is Jennifer Goodwin. She played Snow White Princess. Yes, a princess in Josh Dallas is whatever. So we went and they're like gods there, right?

[Sophia]

Oh yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

And we had a tour guide and I'm such a weirdo. I didn't grow up around Disney. I didn't, we didn't. I didn't really have a childhood. Like I, you know, so I'm asking all these questions about like the park. I'm obsessed with the park. I, my algorithm is all princesses that used to work at Disney telling all the secrets of like what they had to wear, makeup wise and what. Because the Disney princess is very strict rules, they're not allowed to say certain things, you know, and like who are they? I'm just fascinated. The makeup they have to wear, all of it. And they, they can't pee, they can't go to the bathroom, they can't eat, they can't drink water, like none of. And so I'm asking all these questions to this guys and I'm like, so what's the deal with the, with the pedophiles? What's the deal? How do you guys keep them out? Da da da. And. Cause there's this whole underground like jail and yes, I've heard about this.

[Sophia]

I want to see it.

[Whitney Cummings]

And I think it's like one in every like 30 people at Disneyland is an undercover cop. And if you really just sit there, what? Uh huh. And then you'll watch someone just go up to a guy and be like, hey dude, you're going to come with me. We're going for a walk. Like they have it obviously, you know, so hardcore so dialed in. And then I'm like, that's the only place I want to be at a time when you're like the Epstein list. And all these creeps are everywhere. I live at Disneyland where their policy.

[Sophia]

Is no creeps, no creeps. I love that if that could be a policy everywhere outside of Disneyland. Also I would be so grateful. But unfortunately, I think girls should just.

[Whitney Cummings]

Be able to go there for, like, girls nights because there's no grapes. Or at least they handle the grapes.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

And then the cats, you know, they let out 100 cats at night to take care of the rat problem, just to make sure there's no rats. Love it.

[Sophia]

Every night.

[Whitney Cummings]

I love the Disneyland.

[Sophia]

Like, oh, I love that you have the lore.

[Whitney Cummings]

It's a whole city. There's a city underneath. I mean, Disneyland, there's a city. So I'm sure that being a. You know, do you look back at anything that you used to make fun of or not, like, and then realized it's because you were becoming it? Like, we kind of become what we hate. Like, whatever we resist, persists, or, you know, whatever adage kind of, like, works. But I find whenever I'm like, oh, Disney adults, I'm kind of like, I feel like that's on the horizon for me. That's probably why I'm, like, resisting so hard. It's like, when you're, like, mean to a guy, you're like, oh, I actually just like you.

[Sophia]

Well, so really, the point of this podcast is we're going to Disneyland together.

[Whitney Cummings]

Sold. And Ren Faire.

[Sophia]

And Ren Faire. Let's go. Okay, wait, but when you were talking about Ren Faire, you were also talking about the sort of younger, more gentle dudes that go to a Ren Faire. So where. Where's that train going?

[Whitney Cummings]

The next generation of guys. Not all of them. I can't speak for all of them. We only see the Reddit stuff and the negative stuff. But I think this next generation of guys is going the opposite way from these, like, porn obsessed, like, you know, checked out, overstimulated with women.

[Sophia]

I hope so.

[Whitney Cummings]

There's a lot of younger guys that are not using porn, and they're like, their kink is, like, love. Because that's the kinkiest thing you can do at this point is, like, one.

[Sophia]

Woman actually be in love.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like, missionary and, like, eye contact and, like, kissing. Because, like, it was so extreme for this, like, pendulum is, like, swinging back and he's just this, like, just the. I don't know. I just became obsessed with him. And I was like, I know I'm not your wife. Like, but can I just go off birth control? And if it happens, it happens, because you might not be my husband, I might not be your wife, but you are a father. Like, just. I see it so clearly.

[Sophia]

And that's what happened.

[Whitney Cummings]

That's what happened. Yeah.

[Sophia]

And what's what's the non relationship relationship now?

[Whitney Cummings]

It's the best. There was this part of me that was like, make it work, make it work. Make it work to have this, like, nuclear family that you always wanted. And it was like, that's not fair to him. You know, I think that we forget sometimes as women, when you're in any relationship or guys probably do it too. I just can't speak to that where you're like, you know, I need to make this work. Like, you know what? Just, can you imagine if you found out the other person was thinking like that with you? Yeah, we forget what we're like, I'm going to be a martyr and make this work. Like, ew. You're wasting another person's time. If you're already, you know, if you're pretending or faking or trying to make something work. I mean, look, if you're in. Of course relationships take work. I really can't speak to all that because I get so confused around it. But I was just like, I don't want to have any internal monologues that are negative about this. Let's just start this off, like, honest and forward thinking and in radical acceptance so that our son never knows any different. You know, just sees us as, like good friends and we don't complicate things. And I just never want to show resentment or weirdness around him. So we just started co parenting, like, from the beginning, and it's such a blast.

[Sophia]

That's so cool.

[Whitney Cummings]

It's like a dream. And then I started dating the guy that I'm with, like, when my son was like three months old.

[Sophia]

Oh, my goodness. That's so cool.

[Whitney Cummings]

Just, I like, look, it's so hard for me to trust that anyone would be into me in any capacity that the guy that I'm with now. We started dating when I had a newborn. Like, that's what it takes for me to be convinced that you actually like me. To throw you in the deep end so hard. You know, I'm like, still hemorrhaging from childbirth and just purple from varicose veins and just, you know, here's my.

[Sophia]

Here we are.

[Whitney Cummings]

I'm breastfeeding. Yeah, I can't really walk. And, you know, so the guy that I'm with now. So it's kind of a wild dynamic, but, like, why not?

[Sophia]

And now a word from our sponsors who make this show possible.

[T Mobile Ad]

Go almost everywhere with the podcasts you love on T Mobile's network, because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network switch now. Keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to 4 lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlocked device, credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months.

[Sophia]

I think there's something, you know, not that we've had the same experience, but I do think there's something about meeting a person when you are your most taken apart in a way. And for me, like, I had to really deconstruct so many things about the pressure I put on myself, the subconscious pressure I put on myself approaching 40 and wanting to be a parent and doing all these things and. And, yeah, sure, there's things that aren't for public consumption and there's diagnoses you could give and all this that you're talking about, but at the end of the day, it's like, no, if. If we're just trying to build the image, but the life inside isn't happy or you feel hollow or. Or it's a. It's like a movie backdrop. Like, it looks like the mountains, but actually it's just a sheet that's been painted on. Like, what are we. What are we doing? And why do we feel like we have to do it that way?

[Whitney Cummings]

And I grew up watching parents fight like dogs that not have been together. I remember sobbing, begging my parents to get a divorce. And, you know, I just. I don't feel like it's fair, you know, I think that children understand. Oh, this didn't work out. Like, now I can show you. If things don't work out the way that the Norman Rockwell painting is, like, it's. It's okay. And, you know, I think that it was also liberating because I was like, okay, I'm 40 years old. If I start over right now, not having a child, which I want, you know, so bad, I'm just gonna put so much pressure on everyone I date. Like, are you a father? Are you a father? And da, da, da. And let me see, I'm just gonna be like, how big are your hands? And, like, just getting so primordial.

[Sophia]

Do you have any history of heart disease in your family? What about rare cancers?

[Whitney Cummings]

Like, I mean, this. While we're sending it to 23andMe right now, I just was like, I. I'm never Gonna. Or I'm gonna settle for the wrong. I'm gonna have a kid with the wrong person too fast and make a big mess. And I don't think it's fair to be. You know, we talk about objectifying, you know, women a lot, but it's not fair to objectify a man on the first date. Like, are you a father? Are you a father? You know, are you a homeowner? And you can let me see your credit score. Like, I just, you know, so I was like, let me just take this off the table. And then I had this, you know, because that worked, you know, when I was. When I froze my eggs. It took a lot of pressure off. And then this, like. Yeah, you know, I'm really also working on, you know, and I'm sure it's different from everyone not getting all my needs met from the same person. I don't think historically that's ever been the case. I think our biological basis is, like, you know, not conducive to that at all. The idea that your person needs to be like your husband and your best friend and the father of your kid and your, you know, and the handyman at the house and the, like, everything or your. Whatever it is. And so to me, I'm like, okay, now that I have my heart so full, I can actually go out and find a. A teammate, a co pilot, a partner, instead of, like, my world. I have a world already.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

You know, and I think that my relationship support was so codependent because I was like, I need you to. You're my dad that never loved me and my mom that drank, and you're, you know, and then I was getting my emotional needs met from, like, Hollywood. Like, I mean, it was. It was mentally ill. So now it's like, I think it's just about how do you get your emotional needs met in appropriate ways? And the word appropriate is kind of a new one for me as it's comedian. I know that's not something that comes naturally for me to understand, but, like, it's just, like, not appropriate for me to expect my guy to be sad about my girlfriend breakup. You know, he's like, no, it's not. She was toxic for you. And I'm like, I need to cry for two weeks because I still love. Girlfriend. Breakups are so much.

[Sophia]

They're so hard.

[Whitney Cummings]

Harder than guy.

[Sophia]

But you know what? Wait, I have to. Okay, I know we're talking about this thing, but I do have to ask you this, because this was like a. For me. I don't even know what the interview was. But when Oprah and Gayle were talking and Oprah said, you cannot be friends with someone who has even an ounce of jealousy about your life, even an ounce. And it really, it hit me in such a way because I went, oh well, no wonder they've been friends for, you know, their whole lives. And oh, no wonder we go through these things. Our, our lives are weird, Hollywood's weird, our careers are weird. Being, being in relationship to people in the public eye is weird and it's hard. And also you kind of can't have relationships with people who find your life hard for them.

[Whitney Cummings]

It's also tricky with that because I wouldn't even have been able to apply that advice to my life until very recently.

[Sophia]

Same.

[Whitney Cummings]

In order to ascertain whether someone's jealous of you, you have to have self esteem and think your life is awesome and that you're awesome.

[Sophia]

Ding, ding, ding.

[Whitney Cummings]

I was in all these relationships where I think that was happening, but I was like, who would be jealous of my life? I'm a mess.

[Sophia]

Same. I was like, nobody's meaner to me than me. I'm not fill in the blank this person I'm not doing fill in the blank this job I'm not. And I, and, and I wasn't in any way capable of, of owning what I am. I just constantly identified what I wasn't. And, and that not only for the kinds of friendships that break up, but for relationships, for romantic relationships that makes you such a target for manipulation and people who will take advantage of you. And like it really required everything like the house of cards really coming down to go, hold on. In what ways have I been complicit in what I've accepted that isn't it? And how do I change that? And you know, in the same way that you're talking about meeting your guy in the most insane time. Like I never thought I was going to find the most healing and sweet and joyful and kind love of my life in a divorce. Girl group chat. But here we like not on my bingo card ever. And here we are and it's like, I bet it wasn't on your bingo card that you were going to have a three month, three month old and fall in love with someone that wasn't that baby's dad.

[Whitney Cummings]

But I realized the only my heart was so full with this child that the only person who could have even got through to me was someone, he's already a dad. He's, you know, has kids. That was like down that was like, oh, you still have stitches in and you can't have sex for three months and you got baby and like pressure. Yeah. He was like, oh, you know, was.

[Sophia]

He, was he just like, let me swaddle your baby? And you were like, yup.

[Whitney Cummings]

He showed up a Harley Davidson onesie.

[Sophia]

Oh my God.

[Whitney Cummings]

And he's an Eagles fan, so all this like Eagles gear. And it was like, because I had this identity that was like, okay, now I'm a single mom. Like, I. No one's going to want to sign up for this. Oh, it's made me cry. Like, who would want, you know, like. And I think that you're like this too. And maybe I won't diagnose you, but I think that we come off so independent and so self sufficient that it doesn't occur to anyone that we ever need help.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

And yes, you know, I, that was the only time I was needing help. Literally. Couldn't walk up a flight of stairs.

[Sophia]

Yeah, you couldn't pretend you didn't need help anymore.

[Whitney Cummings]

Exactly. You just nailed it. And it softened me in that moment. And I'm like, is this what it comes to for a man to see my vulnerable side? Literally just being like, he would drive all the way here, he lives two hours away. And I'd be like, I have to take a nap. He'd be like, no problem. You know, like, let me make you some food. Like, that's what it came to for me to allow someone to love me and take care of me. And I don't think I ever would have been able to do that had I not actually been like still bleeding from childbirth.

[Sophia]

Wow. I think that's really, that's really profound and that's really beautiful and how cool that you did it.

[Whitney Cummings]

Tricky thing because I'm so like anti pretending to be anything you're not or don't ever make yourself small for someone. But there's also a point where you have to go, like, if I want to attract someone that has any caretaking capabilities or that will be helpful and useful and that helps them build their pride and their self esteem and that's maybe how they give love. If their language is acts of service or, you know, and I'm not giving them the opportunity to do that for me because my thing is like, I don't need anything. I'm so independent. I got it, I got it, I got it. And they're like, do you even need me for this? Like, I want to be with someone that I can love and you know, I love through acts of service. And I love through fixing and helping, you know, and then I found myself in relationships with people that were just, like, so unavailable and so not there. And I'm like, of course I'm attracting that kind of person because I don't need anything. Somebody attracts someone who can't give anything. And so, you know, I don't know where you are on love languages. I know. I'm sure a lot of it is, you know, it is what it is. But there is a book that is so deeply toxic, and it is so helpful, I'm going to bring it up. It is called Getting to I do. And it is truly the worst title of any book. But ignore all the toxic, heteronormative, like, marriage stuff. It's not even about marriage. It's like, about how one person needs to be a giver and one person needs to be a receiver. And switching back and forth is confusing. And you gotta pick a lane. And in my relationships, I was always the giver, but in my work, I'm the giver. And I just was always giving, giving, giving. And I wasn't allowing myself to receive anything anywhere. And I wanted a teammate, but I wasn't giving anyone the opportunity to give to me. So I was so frustrated where I was like, I'm doing everything myself. Why aren't they helping? It doesn't occur. When would they have time to help? You've already done it.

[Sophia]

All right.

[Whitney Cummings]

You know, double Virgo till I die. Come from alcoholic home. Like, I'm parentify child.

[Sophia]

Yeah, you and me both, babe.

[Whitney Cummings]

It helped me to learn receiving isn't weak. It doesn't mean you're stupid. It doesn't mean you need a man or need a relationship or you're pathetic or weak. It's like, yeah, could you make the reservation? Could you make that choice? What do you want to eat? Make the choice. I'm just a capacity making choices today. I just. I don't. I'm a decision fatigue. What date? Go to this thing. Could you just schedule it? Thank you.

[Sophia]

Thank you so much.

[Whitney Cummings]

Allowing someone to love you. And that's what the essence of that. That book is. That kind of.

[Sophia]

Yeah, but that's what I was gonna ask you because the. The hyper independence that comes off as so professional, so successful, so whatever. You know, you mentioned growing up in a household where you were at times begging your parents to get divorced. I also went through that, and I realized I was a very early parentified child. I was like, I love you both. Y'all are nuts. I Will see myself. Yeah, I'll take it from here. I will never need anything. And the wild thing that I've been through more recently, you know, we had this big kind of family meeting, I don't know, eight years ago, and started processing through some things that I thought were a really big deal. And I was in a period of, you know, five years of deep singledom. Just like I reject a relationship, I'm not doing this. And I had to kind of get to the bottom of some things in my family. And the coolest thing that's happened to me since I, you know, knocked down the whole house of cards two years ago is it. It gave my parents and I another opportunity to talk to each other. And I, I, I realized I'd been saying, you know, I'm so glad my parents still have each other, and I'm really glad for where they're at, but I don't know when they became this couple that holds hands walking down the street and likes hanging out with each other. And I realized that because I rejected the hard times they went through, because they're just two people doing the best they can. You know, not in a generation where they had Instagram therapists and mental health access, you know, resources everywhere.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

That I missed the way they healed together. So I rejected what didn't work, but I never learned what really did.

[Whitney Cummings]

Whoa.

[Sophia]

And so I didn't even know that in my hyper independence, which was a trauma response to that toxicity at the time, I didn't even realize that as an adult who looked super successful on the outside and who'd been through a lot and had healed from it, supposedly, that I just kept finding the same claws to fit the same wounds. And the aha moment that I had, realizing I was in a situation at 40 that so closely mirrored a situation I was in 20 years before, like, pattern recognition. I was like, oh, my God, everything stops. Everything's got to stop. And it was so scary to do it. But the way it feels now, like, I see the joy on your face when you talk about where you are now. And I feel that I just, in.

[Whitney Cummings]

Talking about how different it is if it feels uncomfortable. And the opposite of my thing is, you know, look, I'm, you know, I'm in Al Anon and aca, and, you know, it's really just about taking a contrary action. And if something feels too familiar before you've been in recovery, that means you're recreating your childhood circumstances, whatever equilibrium of the neurochemical. There's a great book again. Horrible title. Harville Hendrix. Getting the Love youe Want. About how we're attracted to people with the negative qualities of our primary caretakers. Because it recreates that from mine was chaos. And the more on drugs you are, the more, you know, dramatic. Going through a horrible breakup, you. You need to, you know, go from the rehab to the assisted living and you have a stalker. Like, chaos was so familiar to me because that was my role as a kid, was to everybody happy and calm and just help the helper. Right. And so, you know, and I did. And no shade on your parents. No shade even on my parent. I'm kind of at the point where it's like, we forgive others not because they deserve forgiveness, because we deserve peace. And now that I have a son, I'm like, God, I hope he, like, forgives me when I mess up. I'm sure I will. So just trying to, you know, approach that way. But there was this guy on, I think it was Rich Roll, who said, a sign of healthy parenting is that your children don't wish to be famous. And it's just kind of like, okay, I don't have to overthink this. I went to strangers. I go to try to make drunk strangers laugh at night. Oh, you know what I mean? I didn't get. I didn't get what I needed. But no one's gonna give it to me. I have to give it to myself.

[Sophia]

You have to give it to yourself.

[Whitney Cummings]

And now that you're famous, you're in a super big jam. Because then people wanna be around you sometimes for the wrong reason. So it's not real love. And then I go, oh, well, I'll settle for being used. Being used. I'll never love, so I'll just be used. Like, I know what that is. And then to break that cycle is like. Is not a game.

[Sophia]

It's like total. It felt like total and complete annihilation by choice. But I would not go back for a moment.

[Whitney Cummings]

The concept called wabi sabi. I'm sure you know the jack.

[Sophia]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Term of something is actually more valuable after it's been broken. And, like, when a bolt breaks, they paint it back with gold.

[Sophia]

With gold. Yeah, yeah. It's so beautiful.

[Whitney Cummings]

No big deal.

[Sophia]

Yeah. You're like, I'm an art piece.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah. Like, I'm a. Like, I'm fancy.

[Sophia]

I love it. Put me in a museum.

[Whitney Cummings]

That guy Steve Wynn, the hotel guy.

[Sophia]

Yes.

[Whitney Cummings]

He put his hand through a van go. Because he has issues. And then they restored it, and now it's worth like 50 million more like being broken and fixed is. Is sicker like scar tissue is stronger than regular tissue. Totally.

[Sophia]

And now a word from our sponsors.

[T Mobile Ad]

Go almost everywhere with the podcasts you love on T Mobile's network because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off at the $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com keepandswitch up to 4 lines via virtual prepaid card will have 15 days qualifying unlock device credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required card is no cash access. It expires and sex.

[Sophia]

So I'm curious about this because you, you've talked about it a lot and if you feel like you've talked about it too much, we can move on. But you, you've shared about your postpartum depression journey.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

And so not only when you give me context on finding this really healthy love and learning to, to let people support you, you were also, you weren't just dealing with the physical postpartum, you were dealing with this enormous mental shift. And were you able to identify that really quickly? Because, like, when I was going through what I was going through, granted, not because of a kid, but like, fertility hormones are gnarly, I was like, oh, what is happening to me is a kind of depression that is scary and I need to figure it out. And I had to confront a lot of things, namely, like, I'm not getting any help with this. Yeah. Like, how did you know that it wasn't just, oh, my body aches because I pushed a baby out, but, like, something else is wrong.

[Whitney Cummings]

I'm already getting emotional. So, you know, lots coming. No, in a good way. You know, I, I don't, I no longer see crying as bad. Like, it's, you know, it's decongest and it's like the body that keeps the score I have here somewhere. It's just like, you know, releasing. And I think when we have these conversations, like, it's a sign of, I think, strength and success that we go this deep. Well, yeah.

[Sophia]

That you're not masking this part of yourself.

[Whitney Cummings]

I can't pretend anymore. And I'm so grateful for that. And I don't, I used to kind of just like go for the joke and going for joke podcasts when there's no audience, just comes off cringe and pick me Anyway, you know, for me, it was a couple things. You know, I will start by saying I'm not a big pharma pusher person if it's for you. That's. That's awesome. I think there's definitely a place for. I know people who have. Are no longer with us, who have taken their lives because they went off a medication they really needed. I know people who I think have gone on medications they did not need at all, and it has hurt their lives in a lot of ways. And mental health. I went off everything and ultimately settled on just because I have repetitive intrusive thoughts, which is a normal, healthy reaction from a dangerous childhood. To go like, is that. Is a stove on? Is this on the door? Like, does that, like, it's. It's a survival mechanism. It's something that also, I think women, we specifically have where, you know, used to have to give birth in the woods at 15, blood everywhere with predators around. Is that a line? Is that a line? Is that a line? Is that, like, that's, you know.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Survival narrative. But I did go on first 10 milligrams of Prozac and then up to 20 milligrams of Prozac, which just kind of cuts the perseveration in the loop and, like, kind of in half for me. Of like, get off this podcast and go like, oh, that was boring. You were boring. You talk too much. That was annoying. You cried on the podcast. Why did you do that? That was psycho. I'll do that for, like, five minutes and, you know, instead of an hour. Yeah. Like, the idea of, like, I'm gonna do it, as much as it will be constructive for me to next time improve the way I communicate, but I'm not gonna, like, hurt myself, you know?

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

So I had gone off Prozac when I was pregnant, so I was definitely off Prozac as well, you know, so. So I'm not saying everyone that has postpartum should be on something. For me personally, it's a little bit of those repetitive thoughts before the Prozac kicked back in. And then I think there was just. You know how, like, when you almost get in a car accident but you don't. You're fine, and you're fine, and then you, like, get home and then you're like. Like, it. It comes out. It's like a delay.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

All the stuff that I'm talking about of, like, like, I did it with someone that I'm not married to, and I did it, you know, out of wedlock after my mom died and I'm coming off like, I'm very like, I made this decision and I, you know, that's so self actualized and I have all this agency and I did this, you know, kind of. What's the word? Unconventional thing. I think that there was like a delayed emotional hangover of having to be an acceptance of that I didn't really have any choice. Like when I was pregnant, I was just kind of like, this is what I'm doing. I think we forget a lot about like the freeze response and like shock. And it took me a while to realize that a lot of the time I'm in shock a lot. And sometimes it takes me a second to like process something that happened. And after I had him and things got real, oh, it's made me cry. There is like a sadness around it also, which is like, fine, this is a choice that I made, you know, but there's a sadness for all of us to go like, oh, like, I'm not gonna have that thing. You know, does anybody have it? I don't know. You know, does anybody have it? Unclear. But, you know, that's why movies like Frozen are so important, because you're like, oh, the love story between sisters, you know? Yes, but I do think that. But I also had a sadness for myself of like, whoa, I could have done this way this whole time and put myself through shape shifting and pretending and trying to be the girl that he'd want to marry so we can have the kid. You know, I was like, there was a sadness for also, like what I had done to myself. And being around a baby, it's just like, it gives you a whole new level of understanding how, I guess mentally ill my parents were. It went from like, I'm mad at them to like, oh, wow, I was in actual danger. Like, when you're with a baby and you see how defenseless they are and how innocent, there's like a, A, a new status that comes up that's like, it's like, they didn't want this. Like, how could you not? You know, but addiction is real. And addiction, you know, people that are addicted to drugs, they give their baby away gambling, you know, you know, So I think it's a lot of that. I think when you're with a baby that's so defenseless and so innocent and so sweet, you also go like, what happened? What does this world do? Like, I have this little boy, he's the sweetest thing. And I'm like, all men start out like this. Yeah, what are we doing to these people? Like, what are we doing to them? So I think there was this. There's a sadness there. And then as he gets older, I think that's when the postpartum, I don't know what to call really hits me, because I didn't really have a childhood with toys and play. And so I'm kind of having it for the first time with him. And it's just like, sadness, which is like, I'd rather be the person crying on your podcast as much as embarrassing it as is than the person who's, like, angry later, you know, Because I think I had a lot of anger for a long time that I just thought was, like, I'm funny and I'm sarcastic, but it was, like, angry underneath it, you know? And so that's kind of what it was for me. I think it was a remix of Chemical and, you know, your body's not your body. That I actually, for the first time in my life, got obsessed with my body. Like, I had eating disorders and. And dysmorphia and all kinds of. Was at work my. With my body so long. Once I had a kid, I was like, it's not about my body. It's. I'm not trying to get some executive at CBS to be like. And hire me. Like, what I was like, this is just my kid's house at this point. You know, that's. I thought about it. So I think there's just also this chrysalis of going, like, I'm an adult now, and the relief of, like, I don't have to think about myself anymore. And I was so sick of myself. What we do for a living. I know everyone kind of wants to do what we do, and that's awesome. And there's so many amazing things about what we do. But, like, I was like, there. I was at a, like, peak mental. Mental illness, like, crisis. And I think, plot twist, I guess I'm not a malignant narcissist. I was just so sick of myself. And I realized, like, if I'm thinking about myself all day, I hate myself. But if I'm thinking about myself, like, an hour a day, that's like. That's like the sweet spot. So such a victory in all of this. But I think once you have that child in front of you and the decisions really made of, like, okay, like, I'm a single mom. Like, okay, like, I tried. I did everything I could. I pretended to, like, the, you know, the Miami Heat for a guy. I pretended to like hockey. I pretended to be this person I pretended to be in the camping. Like, I. I tried and it didn't work, and I could. I couldn't make it perfect. And there's a little bit of a. Like, you know, I think my son's gonna think it's cool, but there's a little bit of, like, I have to explain this one day, you know?

[Sophia]

Yeah. Yeah. But I think it's kind of incredible, you know, I. I will never forget, like, and this was years before any of this, but I will never forget doing. During the pandemic, when we were all home, I did Glennon Doyle's book tour with her on Instagram Live.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

And when she talked about being in this marriage and looking at her daughter and saying, like, would I want this for my daughter? Like, I'm staying for my daughter, but would I want my daughter to stay in this? Oh, I needed to hear that. To eventually unpack the house I grew up in with my parents. And I needed to hear it so that on the precipice of having a kid, I could say, I don't want this for my kid. I don't want the thing I'm in that has just eviscerated me to be the thing my kid grows up in. And I think there's something so cool about the fact that we all, in our own unique versions, are having this experience, because I think the kids we raise are going to be more mentally healthy because we can talk to them about finding mental toughness, about. About finding our own mental health, about not having to make it look perfect and not trying to go after, you know, the fairy tale ending, but actually finding joy and personal fulfillment, even when it requires so much courage because you have to do the Braveheart thing.

[Whitney Cummings]

But I think that what you're saying is making me think for the first time, the idea is that I think this generation, we are kind of been chosen to be the cycle breakers, and hopefully this next generation doesn't need to have constant mental health cons all the time. Hopefully there's meditation in schools and there's, you know, school isn't just sitting down and staring at us, memorizing when that's not how we're wired, you know, Like, I think this next generation, you know, is going to look at phones the way we look at cigarettes. We're going to be like, you guys just did that all day inside. You know, I think that, like, we're kind of the. The, you know, our parents, I mean, the parents before that were just awash. They were like kids working in Factories, you know, they're doing pretty good given the circumstances. That generation totally. And our parents were raised by, you know, people that were completely emotionally shut down, that were, like, in wars, you know, and then us, like, I think we're the ones that are hopefully gonna get a modicum of, you know, sort of mental health in place. So this next generation can just exist and be functioning in a way, you know, but. But it's a lot, man. And I think, to me, I really stick with a lot of basics. Gratitude list, is it. Because the worst thing I think we can be at this point is a sore winner.

[Sophia]

Yeah. Do you do that every day?

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

Make a gratitude list. Do you do it in the morning or at night?

[Whitney Cummings]

I do it usually at night before bed. Because I do a 10 step in a 12 step program, which is where you go, do I owe any apologies today? Do I have any resentments from today? Do I have any fears from today? Like, gratitude list before bed. Yeah, it's good. Yeah.

[Sophia]

The.

[Whitney Cummings]

That's like a 10 step and a 12 step program so that you don't, like, carry shame into the next day, or you're not, like, laying in bed being like, was I, like, weird on Sophia's podcast? Should I reach out to her and like, she said we should hang out. Did I drop the ball on that? Like, instead of just thinking about it, I can just go like, hey, you know, sorry if that I was late. Great talking to you. Like, whatever it is. I can just make an apology where I need to so that I'm not beating myself up over it and accruing an embarrassment kind of thing. But, yeah, I really am trying to write stuff down. I have a typewriter now. Oh, typewriter. That does not have WI FI on it.

[Sophia]

We like that.

[Whitney Cummings]

I do think another part of postpartum depression I'm not hearing a lot about. Not because. Just because I. You know, I'm sure it's a discussion, but you're really, really faced with your addictions after you have a kid and hardcore. Because you're like, oh, he's on the table sleeping, or he's in the bouncer or whatever, sleeping. Okay, do I have a second to go get my phone? Like, there was a couple times where I made the wrong decision because I had to get my phone or look at my phone and nothing bad happened. But, like, it could have. Where I was kind of rolling the dice. And addictions make you sort of less able to assess the true danger of something because we want that fix so bad. Thank God for me. It's not, you know, substances, but, like, there's times he was like, on the bed and I was like, okay, I'll just. I'll just turn on real quick and I'll get my phone and I'll send that Instagram, you know, And I was like, oh, I'm kind of addicted to my phone because I'm gambling. I'm kind of gambling with my son's safety as a, you know, and nothing bad happened, but. But it could have, right? So you have to face a lot of your, like, embarrassing inner monologue where you're there with your baby and you're kind of like, I gotta make a TikTok. You're like, oh.

[Sophia]

And now a word from our wonderful sponsors.

[T Mobile Ad]

Go almost everywhere with the podcasts you love on T Mobile's network, because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now. Keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off at the $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com keepandswitch up to 4 lines of your virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption. Required card is no cash access and expires in six months.

[Sophia]

Okay, so I'm really curious about this because this has brought you so much mental clarity and it feels like a lot of emotional softening and. And has required bravery and all these things. And you're. You. Like you said, you're facing all of this. The typewriter is genius.

[Whitney Cummings]

Also go, I'm falling behind. Looking at my son and going, I'm falling behind. Put another standup special out.

[Sophia]

So that was gonna be my question. How do you, from this place say, I wanna write new comedy, I wanna go and do a tour? Like, what is. Is it? Oh, I took a break and now I have to get to work. I'm gonna go do the big baby tour. Or were you like, oh, I've made more space emotionally, and now I want this creative hit for myself as well.

[Whitney Cummings]

I had no ability to be creative for, like, six months. And I think that was another element of the postpartum depression of, like, that I didn't want to talk about. And I still don't want to talk about. I'd only do this for you because my brain didn't work. They said, mom, brain, whatever, you know, my brain, I couldn't remember the most basic things. I couldn't make jokes. I couldn't write jokes. Like, I just was, like, I was really scared at how, for lack of a better word, dumb I was. And it did make me realize, like, so much of my self esteem is about how much I know and am I smart and am I funny. And I wasn't those things six months after I had my kid. And I was like, I'm useless. Like, I'm not funny, I'm not smart, I'm not interesting. I can't remember anything. And it helped me really see that and how this is where I get my value and what I think people like about me, which is probably opposite people. Like, she's such a know it all. We liked her better. So I had to face that. And then, you know, to me, I'm really big on software updates for our brains. You know, take the time and have the software update. In order for art to imitate life, you have to have a life. And I've always struggled with that. I'm sort of like, next special, write more jokes. Write more jokes, and you end up kind of writing about the same things and sort of of doing a bad impression of yourself. I think it's really important that we all consciously decide to grow and mature. And I have no allegiance to the person I was yesterday. And I really try to go, like, if I do this quickly and fast, it's not going to be thoughtful and mindful. So much of standup is just like, spending a lot of time ruminating and like, trying to figure out what your opinion is on something. And I was like, okay, let me just take this time to, like, read all the books that I pretend I've read and let me finish all the books that I say I've finished, but I haven't, you know, and let me just, like, live my life a little and like, do chores. And I. And I realized that, like, so dorky. But chores are such a big part of my sanity. Double Virgo till I die. But I had gotten some help, like, you know, when I had the kid when I was pregnant, and I was like, I just want to go back to every morning doing some, like, you know, things that need to be done. You know, productivity and cooperation. Make dopamine. I want to like, like, take care of my own. I just think we're so wired to just, like, do things for ourselves that need to be done. I used to have someone that did my, like, garden. I started doing it myself, and I'm like, such a happier person, you know, it's such a simple thing. I know, but before you go to a therapist, like, clean your house, clean out your car.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Plant some flowers and, like, see what happens. So I, like, wake up in the sunlight. Gardening. I think we're just really wired, like, barefoot, connect to the earth. I know this sounds so Topanga of me right now, but that I really, you know, and then I watch my son. He just wants to, like, rake and dig, and I'm like, God, this is kind of what we're wired to do. So little that started. Started helping me and. And not going, like, I need to write five pages of jokes today. I was like, let me just be a person. And. And then the clarity started coming back. And I think a lot of things that I don't remember, I. I wasn't meant to remember. Here's the good news. Like, once you have a kid, there's a little bit of, like, a hippocampus wipe. I've run into some people, had a great conversation with a couple guys. Two weeks later, I was like, wait, oh, we dated. Whoa, whoa. Like, when I had a kid, my brain was like, we don't need that. We don't need that. Like, little things, you know, that you carry. Like, that was mean to me. And that person was. Is said something nasty on social about me. It's, like, gone. You know, that's the good thing about mom brain is that the stuff that doesn't matter is just kind of gone.

[Sophia]

Yeah, that's great. I mean, look, I'm sad for you that it felt so stressful. And it definitely makes me want to double down on the fact that we actually need paid leave in this country, because in other countries, you can be a CEO and then have a year off with your baby. And in America, they're like, two weeks isn't long enough. And you're like, no, I'm literally still bleeding. What are you talking about?

[Whitney Cummings]

I've known a couple people that went to England to have their child because it is cheaper to fly to London hotel, have your baby, and fly back.

[Sophia]

Than to just do it here.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah.

[Sophia]

Oh, boy.

[Whitney Cummings]

And also everything that you said about making peace with your parents, because when you have a kid come along, they're your child care. I mean, in this country, like, your parents, your sister, you know, so still alive, I would have been like, you know what?

[Sophia]

It's fine. Come over. I really only need 10 minutes to make a tick tock. Thank you.

[Whitney Cummings]

This is your way to get right with God and get your back.

[Sophia]

But, yeah, I'm cashing in on all my karmic. Points. Thank you so much.

[Whitney Cummings]

But so, yeah, another reason to forgive your parents because you will need to care, you know. But yeah, it's, it's just a trip, you know.

[Sophia]

And now a word from our sponsors that I really enjoy and I think you will too.

[T Mobile Ad]

Go almost everywhere with the podcasts you love on T Mobile's network because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com keepandswitch up to 4 lines of your virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlocked device, credit service report in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption. Required card has no cash access and expires and sex month.

[Sophia]

Okay, tell me, because obviously I just want to talk to you about life all the time and eventually actually come over and ride your horses. But I do want to talk about your work because I'm very excited about it. How many cities are you going to on tour? Where do the people get the tickets? Like, people want to come and watch you make them laugh.

[Whitney Cummings]

That's so nice. I think that honestly, and that's not just because this is my job. I think coming to see a standup show, even if it's not me, even if you don't think women are funny or whatever, go see live stand up. Because it really is like anathema and alternative data to what we're seeing online every day. Like online every day. You would just think people just want to fight. People hate each other. People, if they voted differently, they won't speak to each other. Nobody wants to laugh. Everybody hates comedy. Everyone's going out of their way to intentionally misunderstand a joke in order to be offended. And. And then you're in like a room with 3,000 people that all showed up to laugh shoulder to shoulder. They don't know how the person next to them voted. Everyone laughing about the same thing, having the same experience, like, it is just like, makes me feel so hopeful to see so many people like going, we want to, like, enjoy this life. It's not guaranteed, you know, I don't know how the, you know, if I'm going to survive tomorrow, let's just laugh about all this. And we don't want to be miserable, you know, we're not. We're not the people that are just like signing up to be miserable and Adrenalized, you know, Although I know that, that hating online, that's an addiction. I think we'll look back, you know, like there'll be laws that are like you can only make 5 comments a day or whatever.

[Sophia]

That would be incredible.

[Whitney Cummings]

You know what I mean? Like, I think it's self righteous indignation. It's an adrenaline addiction. And guess what? If I was 18, I'd probably be that person. I'd probably be online like you, Adrian Brody, throwing your gum at your girlfriend or whatever. It's like I'd probably be that person if I didn't have the outlet of doing stand up and writing. You know, I get it if you, we get hurt all the time. We get heard, people hear like, you know, want to hear us. Like a lot of people don't get heard. You know, if I didn't get hurt, I'm sure I'd be doing that. And so, so yeah. Whitney Cummings dot com. I don't, you know, it's, I don't know, I'm so embarrassed. I'm just, I have so much shame around that, don't we?

[Sophia]

And you're. Because you're right. Laughter really is medicine. And it's like I think that, I think vulnerability is medicine. I think laughter is medicine. I think they are both so essential in a world where we are trying to resist the Andrew tatification of society. And like we, we need to be reminded, as you said, that not everyone is like violent and terrible and out to get each other.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah. I mean I also think like we have to remember like I don't know that much about that guy. But there's always been good and evil. There'll always be good and evil. I think like, you know, evil's always louder and mental illness is always louder. So I think we also have to choose. This might be a hot take. Like people who talk about like mental ill, you know, mental health, we got to talk about it.

[Sophia]

You might say they're in a lot of pain.

[Whitney Cummings]

Sounds like they're in a lot of pain, you know. And look, I also think like I'm not gonna, you know, I'm still trying to figure out what my quote religion is. You know, even people that like, I'm atheist, that's a religion, you know, for everyone I know that's doesn't have religion. They're like have, have 500 crystals that have names and talk to each other, you know. I don't know. Everyone's got their religion, you know, I think it's finding one that is you know, doesn't depend on, like, women are dumb whores.

[Sophia]

You know, maybe that doesn't depend on harming others. That would be cool.

[Whitney Cummings]

Is that what it is? I don't know that much about that. That if a man goes bald prematurely, everyone will pay. Yeah.

[Sophia]

Oh, God. That's a deep cut.

[Whitney Cummings]

I feel that we need better hair transplants for men.

[Sophia]

Yeah. Because maybe we could have avoided the whole mess if he'd done that.

[Whitney Cummings]

Have you seen. There's a photo of. I looked. I was Googling Andrew Takes. I was like, I'm gonna do a bit on him on my podcast. Like, I don't really know who this guy is. And there's a photo of him with like, huh, the balding.

[Sophia]

Yeah, I know exactly what photo you're talking about.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah, that's it. We just need better transplants for men so they don't have to be this angry.

[Sophia]

Great. We've solved it.

[Whitney Cummings]

Also, what happened to him? Yeah, I don't know what happened to that guy. Put me in a cage with his parents. Parents. Like, what happened to that guy? I'm not gonna be the person that goes. It drives me nuts when every serial killer, they're like, well, his mom didn't let him wear pantyhose. So they always. Serial killers. They always blame the mom.

[Sophia]

They always blame the mom. Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Okay. If my son is a serial killer, it is. That's his dad. I don't know. Let's play it. But I just. It's like, I don't know. We're talking about, like, our parents kind of set up us on a weird track. Like, what?

[Sophia]

Totally.

[Whitney Cummings]

What? What did he not get as a child? I don't know. Or maybe psychopath. I don't know.

[Sophia]

Maybe all. All of it. It seems like a lot of cats in a bag.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like, do you think anyone would choose that life if they could have another one?

[Sophia]

I don't really know. I think, to your point, I think some people want attention so badly that they're literally willing to do anything to get it. And I do find that to be sad. You know, we're having this conversation on a podcast other people are going to listen to. So what do we know?

[Whitney Cummings]

I totally. I just kind of, like, I just always go for criminal defense in a way, because that just makes me go, like, how would any. Like, how did you get there? How could I. Like, if I had to defend you, what would I do?

[Sophia]

This is indicative to me of why we both do this, because we like to ask questions. I like to interview people. You Have a podcast. I assume you like it also or you wouldn't do. Do you. Do you prefer being interviewed or doing the interviewing?

[Whitney Cummings]

I kind of stopped having guests recently.

[Sophia]

Really?

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah, because I just. I don't know, I tend to be a little wild, and a lot of times I'll be like, oh, my God, that was so interesting. And then the day before it comes out, they're like, can you cut this part and this part and this part? And I'm like, ugh. You know, and I don't want anyone to ever feel like, like, you know, uncomfortable. And I also get so excited to talk to people that I feel like sometimes I'm, like, interrupting and I'm annoying and I don't know, I just. I need, like, a little break from. From guests. But I also think really quick with the Andrew Tate thing, I do think we have. We talk about mental health a lot, but I don't hear enough people talking about when boys are abused. Like, we think it's, like, funny. Like, it's like a punchline. They're like the Catholic priests, like, molested, hideous. Like, what do you think those kids are going to grow up? So if we don't. If they get no mental health, you know, it's like, there's no mental health care for kids that have been molested in the Catholic Church. Like, there's like Alcoholics Anonymous, which takes place in a church that's not triggering.

[Sophia]

Yeah, no, that's not it.

[Whitney Cummings]

You know what I mean? So, like, who know? I don't know what. I'm not defending Andrew Tate. Oh, my God, I can see this headline already.

[Sophia]

But here's what's really interesting. I saw this author speaking about this recently, and it really made me kind of double take mentally. She said, you know, I think part of the reason that men don't actually want to fix the culture of violence perpetuated by men against women, against girls, boys, anyone, is because men like saying, I'm one of the good guys, I'm a protector. I would protect you from a bad guy. And if there's no more bad guys, they lose out on getting to cosplay the hero.

[Whitney Cummings]

So, remember, there was like, talk of, is there arson during the LA fires? And I started, like, doing a deep dive on arsonists. And arsonists usually do it to help put out the fire. So if you want to find someone that. That committed arson, go look at who's fighting the fire.

[Sophia]

Yeah, there was a famous case of that here in California. Like a big deal fire chief was actually a California Arsonist, I think in the 90s, like, really gnarly. So. Yeah. I don't know. There's just something about that where I almost wonder if so many men make victims. The punchlines. Because they want to lessen the severity of what's being done to people because they like the idea that they're not the guy who'd do it, which statistically we know is not true. So I don't know. You know, it's weird. I just wish they'd go to therapy instead, but here we are.

[Whitney Cummings]

Anything to not go to therapy. Although I do feel like some men use therapy is like, a. A way to, like, have better excuses. Like, I'm just absolutely avoidant. You know, my love language is physical touch with other women. You're like, okay, no, no, no, no, no, no. Therapy is not to have scientific excuses.

[Sophia]

To be a jerk for your shitty behavior. Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

The wrong ones will just use it as a way to gaslight you into being like, yeah, and my dad didn't play baseball with me, so I'm avoidant. I'm like, you're 50, dude.

[Sophia]

Yeah. Grow up.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah, yeah. No, not just grow up.

[Sophia]

You're avoidant because you like it.

[Whitney Cummings]

But I hope you know, Look, I'm sure I was incredibly wrong on a lot of things I said, but I'm kind of just at a point where I'm, like, not trying to be right.

[Sophia]

I think there's a real sort of acceptance of self and emotional maturity that comes with being able to be curious and to say, I don't know the answer to that. I'm curious about this. I'd like more information, and I think that's a nice place to be. It's definitely something that I think we all want answers.

[Whitney Cummings]

We want. He's a psychopath. She's a narcissist. He's a this. He's a Republican. He's. Again, like, I think it makes us feel too. I think it makes us feel safe, but actually, it makes me feel way safer to be. Like, two things could be true at once, actually. You know?

[Sophia]

Yeah. The. The thing I'm working on is. Is slowing down and asking more questions. The phase of life I'm in.

[Whitney Cummings]

Same someone that you hate, someone who voted differently than you, someone who tweets things that piss you off. My thing is, like, ask them three questions with an open heart and see how quickly you have so much more in common than you thought you did. You know, is that.

[Sophia]

Is that kind of curiosity? Is. Is that pacing like a. A work in progress? For you right now or is there something that, that takes that mantle that's.

[Whitney Cummings]

Oh, like a, like a thing I'm doing? Yeah, one of. Oh, I like this question. A big one. I'm working.

[Sophia]

Whatever your work in progress is right now.

[Whitney Cummings]

Because anytime you're judging someone else, it's just I'm. My self esteem is so low. I need to feel good about myself. Right. So what's going on with me that I need to judge this person and be like, oh, that person's voted this way or this person's dumb? You know, it's like, like, oh, like what's going on with you that you needed that quick hit of self righteous indignation? Also, usually when I have a negative thought about someone or something, it's. I've done that. And I don't like that that person's holding up a mirror. Like, I, I've done that. It's like my default is I've done that. Have I done that? I have. You know, she's being desperate. Like she's being so desperate and pick me. Me. I've done that. I've done it. And there's just like a grace that comes with admitting that you've done the thing. That's. Why would it bother me so much? Who cares? It's not my business. Why would it bother me so much if I hadn't done it or if I don't do it? It wouldn't bother me if it wasn't holding up a mirror. You know, I'm working on good segue. Looking in the mirror and making eye contact with myself, which is really hard to do.

[Sophia]

Billy.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah? Have you ever tried?

[Sophia]

I guess I don't think about it in that way, but I don't think I, I don't really look in the mirror unless I'm brushing my teeth or getting ready for the day.

[Whitney Cummings]

But we're not even really looking at ourselves. We're kind of like.

[Sophia]

Right.

[Whitney Cummings]

It's a, it's a what? A 12 step exercise to look at yourself in the mirror and have some effort. Like make contact with yourself and like be in your skin. I realize I'm all often very like in a disassociative state where I'm kind of just like not in my body. It's a little thing, but I realize when I look in the mirror, I'm not looking in the mirror at myself and just being like, hey, that's you. Like it's a, it's a, it's a creepy thing, but try it. See what happens.

[Sophia]

Okay. That's a good one.

[Whitney Cummings]

And I'm. Don't. Just do something. Sit there. Just like, don't respond yet.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

If you think you need to respond or say something, just don't.

[Sophia]

Just.

[Whitney Cummings]

It's like, it's like clo. It's like, you know how when you go online and you want to get this pair of shoes and if you don't add it to your cart or don't buy it, it'll, like, follow you around for a couple days. You know, the shoes will keep adding, popping up, and you're. My thing is, like, if it needs to be said, I can wait two days.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

You know, I like that. Like, I didn't need to respond to that. I didn't need to say anything to that. I don't need to make a point. I don't need to teach someone a lesson. Like, I don't need to be at war anymore. I think it's really important to know, like, you know, they say in 12 step programs, the good news and bad news. The good news is the war is over. Bad news is you lost. It's like, the war is over. And, like, I don't have to fight little wars with emails and stuff to, like, make sure people respect me and make sure, like, true power comes with, not, like, trying to get power. People respect you when you respect yourself, not when you're like, you need to respect me. It doesn't work that way, you know, So I think it's just doing. Doing less on all and sitting with the feeling and not needing to take an action because we take an action to feel better.

[Sophia]

Right.

[Whitney Cummings]

Why would you say something like this? Defending ourselves, like, I don't need to. No one's attacking me. If someone is doing something rude, they're doing that to themselves. That has nothing to do with me.

[Sophia]

I love that. The. The theme that keeps coming up for me a lot lately is. Is slowing down. Just how nice it is to. To slow down a little bit for people.

[Whitney Cummings]

You have to be with your own thoughts. It's. It's tough. Silence, eye contact, slowing down, all of that.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

I associate slowing down with not being productive, not being busy. I just think busyness was like, the pinnacle of success. I'm so.

[Sophia]

Oh, my God, now. I think free time is the. Is the greatest luxury in the world. I don't want to be. I don't. I want to be so much less busy.

[Whitney Cummings]

We glorify being busy and being tired.

[Sophia]

Yeah, it's gross.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like, when people get in the tired Olympics when they're like, oh, I only slept four hours last night. And someone's like, I only slept two hours. And being sick. I've been sick for two weeks.

[Sophia]

Like, we, like, no, thank you.

[Whitney Cummings]

We should be proud of it. It's like, yeah. What did you do today? Not much. Like, I don't have to, like, make. Well, I did this and this. And I said, like, I find myself needing. Yeah.

[Sophia]

Like, you know, like, I gardened.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yeah, I gardened. I kind of, like, doing nothing is a thing, you know?

[Sophia]

Well, I love it.

[Whitney Cummings]

And being okay with, like, you know, my. This therapist I used to work with said she's like, your problem, Whitney. I mean, one of the many. But your problem is you conflate boredom and serenity when you come from, like, adrenaline and, like, you think you're bored, but you're actually just at peace. You're not bored. That's just peace and quiet. That's the. That's the goal. That's the ultimate. Because I think in the slowness, like, what you're saying, that's when the growth comes. That's when the maturity comes. There's this documentary called Cheer. The last thing I'll say that was on. I just. I'll feel the need to give people, like, credit for what they said. That's profound.

[Sophia]

The one that was on Netflix years ago.

[Whitney Cummings]

Yes.

[Sophia]

I loved that show.

[Whitney Cummings]

Morgan. Morgan was the young one who was, like, kind of close, but then she got coached to being great in the season. You know, she came from, like, a rough. Lived with her grandmother, whatever, and. And she. You know, that show got huge, and all of a sudden she's got, like, sponsorships, and she's on Tick Tock and she's sponsorships with Scrunchie and, you know, all this stuff and Starbucks. And I saw one of the live shows. I'm just, like, a fan of these girls because I also am obsessed with all my internalized misogyny that you never, like, creeps up on you. Because I remember I was always, like, cheerleaders. You know, I played basketball. I was like. Like, jealous, obviously, but I was like, okay, cheerleading is a sport, okay? And then watching this, I was like, whoa, these are, like, incredible athletes. And it was just my internalized sexism, really, Right? And I asked her. I was like, she's 19 years old. Like, this was happening. I was like, how are you doing? Like, what are you gonna do this summer? And she's like, I'm gonna take a couple months off. And I was like, oh. And she's like, yeah, I just need time to, like, process all this. Wow. Like what? Like what? I didn't even know that was an option. What do you mean, process wow Minutes a day? I sit down and I process my life. I'm like, process. Like, I haven't even thought to go, like, that happened. That was crazy.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like, sometimes I just go through my photo album. I'm trying to go, like, day to time and go like. Like, I. I just disassociated through that entire thing. And I've designed my life to be so chaotic that I haven't had a second to even process any of this.

[Sophia]

Right.

[Whitney Cummings]

You know, we don't make time to process our feelings, our emotions, our life, anything.

[Sophia]

So maybe it's not an accident that all of us are ready to slow down.

[Whitney Cummings]

It's kind of the new. It's a flag flex.

[Sophia]

Yeah. I like it.

[Whitney Cummings]

It's a flex.

[Sophia]

I'm proud of us.

[Whitney Cummings]

I know. Good, too.

[Sophia]

We know. Hello.

[Whitney Cummings]

Like, yeah. We're like, you look so good. I stopped getting Botox. But people like, you look good. I'm like, I just, like, kind of sleep and I like. I'm not in toxic relationships or friendships anymore. If I need to be somewhere at four and it takes a half hour, I leave at 3:15. Like.

[Sophia]

Yeah.

[Whitney Cummings]

Just in case, you know, Just kind of like not. Not doing the adrenaline thing.

[Sophia]

I love that for you. I love that for us.

[Whitney Cummings]

We're the best.

[Sophia]

We ended on such a high note.