← Work with Erika Ayers Badan
Work with Erika Ayers Badan
Sobriety, Career Growth and Calling Out AI’s Gender Bias ft. Isabelle Jardin & Helena Shannon
00:39:14
Loading summary
Transcript115 lines
- [00:02]
A
Lemonade. Welcome back to work. I'm Erika. This is where we talk about work. We have a special episode. I feel like I say this every time. We have a special episode for you. Today we have two awesome guests. We have Isabel, who is one of our new test kitchen creators. She's incredible. She's got a great smile, she's got a great personality. The woman loves cookbook clubs, and she likes entertaining. So you're gonna learn all about Isabel. And then we have another fantastic woman. Her name is Helena Shannon. She's based in Chicago. She's part of the Work Like a Girl crew. And Helena wrote a newsletter a couple weeks back for Work Like a Girl called My Sobriety is My Superpower, which I initially saw the headline, and I was like, this is gonna be terrible. But it was, in fact, awesome. So Helena comes and talks about her journey to sobriety and how she makes it through her life and the work, how she makes it through the workplace in general, and how being sober has taught her a lot about herself and actually become an advantage for her at work. So that's it and a bunch of other stuff. All right, so we're doing current events. Today's current event that is really pissing me off is that. And I guess it's not shocking. We talked about it in the Work Like a Girl slack. But AI is telling women to ask for less money in job interviews. So there's been this study, and this study exposed that when you told. Told your AI bot that you're a man, you're a certain race, you're a certain age, or you're a specific gender, when you said that you were female, instead of advocating to ask for the most money of the group, it tells you to ask for less money than it recommends to a man. So even robots think that women should make 83% of what men make, which is the headline for this segment. So we read this on the skim. Actually, the story found out that AI often advises women and minorities to ask for lower salaries than men. So the net net of this is that robots, in fact, think that women should make 80% of what men make. And I think the same is true in this study for minorities, which sucks. It's not surprising, though, because when you think about it, AI is just reflective of the most data and the most information out there. And most of the information out there in the history of the world thinks that women are inferior to men and should therefore be paid less. So this stinks. But I think it's an interesting. It's an interesting way to think about the bias in AI. It's funny, we were having a conversation here about, at Schoolhouse about, like, oh, the AI bots are clearly going to solve that, or AI is going to solve that for us. And I'm like, we have no structured data. AI isn't solving shit for us. But when there's a lot of data in the world, whatever bias or information is reflected in that data is going to come through. And in the chatbot. So that's something I think women need to fight against. I guess if you're going to ask your GPT or your ask your bot for advice, you just like fudge it up 30%. So if you're a woman and you're asking your AI bot how much you should make, just like double it. And then go ask your boss, but convince your boss by telling your boss what you're doing for your boss, not why you personally need a raise. All right, so our next current event comes from India. Today I actually saw this on TikTok and then Sarthik sent it to because they thought it was so funny, which is there's an intern that worked at a business in India and the intern asked for leave from his or her boss. I don't know what the gender is of the person, but this intern sends their boss an email that says, going on a trip. This is an internship. Okay, I just want to stress this is an internship. Going on a trip. Hi, boss. Feeling a bit overwhelmed with all the work and my energy feels a little off. So not getting that vibe right now. I'll be out from July 28th to the 30th. Please don't miss me. So this one just makes me laugh because I just have to have the like, who does that? But then like the other day somebody quit here in email. Like they didn't even have the courtesy to have an in person conversation with their boss. So like, fuck if I know. People will do just whatever they want. But the funny piece about it is the not getting the vibe. So what's happening in the workplace is that if the vibe doesn't feel right, if a person doesn't feel like it, they just up and leave from work. I think it will be interesting to see what happens in this company and what happens with this intern in particular. And it's also, we talked about this a couple weeks. What did they, what were they? They were rebelling. It was like the rebellion group in Asia. Oh yeah, the rats. The rat people. Yeah, the rat people are rebelling against, I think work Life balance or something or whatever. So anyways, I don't know. I don't know what's going to happen here. All right, so we have Isabel here. How long have you been here now, Isabelle?
- [05:19]
B
Exactly a month, actually.
- [05:20]
A
Exactly a month. Okay. So Isabel is part of our resident program. Which resident? The resident program is a brand that once belonged to Food52, I think. Amanda and Meryl had launched a resident program. I love the name. I think it's a great name. And we're bringing it back. And Isabel is one of our residents. So just before we start, describe how you got here and who you are.
- [05:43]
B
Yes. So I'm a home chef that used to be based in Brooklyn, and I started posting small videos of just making recipes that are, like, budget friendly and accessible and things like that.
- [05:56]
A
And does home chef mean you're not formally taught?
- [05:58]
B
Yes. I have no training whatsoever other than what I've learned from, like, my mom, my aunts, my dad, like, things like that. All, like, family trained. I'd say. Yeah. No culinary degree. Something I would strive for eventually. But I like to show that you don't really need that necessarily to make really good food. It's more a practice of self care.
- [06:18]
A
Yeah.
- [06:19]
B
Like, things like that. Making nice, elevated meals for yourself that also don't have to take, like, too.
- [06:23]
A
Much time or don't have to cost a lot of money. Don't have to take too much time. And you can enjoy the ritual. Ritual of it.
- [06:29]
B
Okay. And that's like a bag. Yes, absolutely. I think especially too. I moved here from the Boston area and so also an expensive city, but it was my first time really living on my own after college. And so I was like, I really have to, like, I'm such a foodie, but how do I do this in a budget friendly way, in a way that's not gonna, you know, cost me my rent. So that's kind of.
- [06:50]
A
So how did you do it?
- [06:53]
B
I still do this, but a lot of tinned fish. Honestly, I grew up.
- [06:57]
A
Isabel made the tinned fish pasta, which prompted me to have a rant about my mother's tuna fish salad, possibly pasta dish, which we called road tar growing up. And it was really one of the most disgusting things ever. So you love tin fish?
- [07:13]
C
I do.
- [07:13]
B
And that's funny because it's usually people's association with it is like, ugh. Like, it's a bad childhood memory usually. And my dad has the same thing. His mom made, like, tuna casserole, and he was like, yeah, this was a tuna casserole. Yeah, it's always like that type of thing. And I'm like, well, at the. At the same time, I think tinned fish has come a long way in rebranding itself as like a much higher quality product. But I still think you can get high quality and at like a good price.
- [07:38]
A
So you get the tinned fish and you sometimes make it into a pasta or what else do you make it into?
- [07:43]
B
Yeah, like a pasta, a tuna salad for like a sandwich or with eggs and egg salad, things like that on top of crackers. They're just like very like, minimal ways. But I like that it's already pretty much ready. You just had to take it out and maybe add two or three things and then that's it. So it's also like a really quick meal.
- [08:00]
A
Okay.
- [08:00]
B
And I just. Convenience and accessibility are like, my favorite.
- [08:03]
A
Yeah, that's great. I think it's a good. I love two things about you. One is you kind of come. You're calm in who you are, but you have a wonder too. Like you're eager to learn. And you also seem super practical. Like you're like, hey, I want to make something that's beautiful. I want to engage in the ritual of cooking, and you can do so without having. I think cooking and taking care of yourself is associated with being just for expensive people and it doesn't have to be. And I think you do a great job championing it. So talk about the shows you're gonna be launching.
- [08:38]
B
Yes. So the shows are really gonna be around, like living, hosting, home, chefing, all those things that I think I've just really come into my personality, especially since moving here. Because finding small community spaces with like minded people, making new friends, coming into adulthood and things like that are all like very challenging things, but they can be not super. They don't have to be super intimidating. That's kind of what I want to show people. And running like, you know, community events, dinner parties, cookbook clubs are what I think really pushed me into, like, the food industry in general. And so my series are going to be a lot about, you know, giving people advice if they're trying to host. Not necessarily in New York specifically, but if you're hosting for the first time and you're in like, it doesn't have to be age specific either. I mean, I'm 27, so I think a lot of people my age are very into that right now as well. Just into hosting, into hosting, into learning how to like, make their house a home or their apartment, like wherever they are. And again, like doing it in a really budget, friendly and like, easy way. Like little tips and. And tricks that you don't have to go crazy purchasing things or changing renovating your entire home to make happen. And then also on top of that, same with the, like, the home and family cooking cultural side, I have these handwritten cookbooks from both sides of my family that is just like such an incredible gift, and I would love to share that of like, these recipes that come from my grandparents and great grandparents that I never met. So it's kind of a way of cooking my way back to, like, my. Where I came from especially. Cause my parents and I were all very Americanized, which is totally fine. But that's like the generation they grew up in, what I grew up with. So all of us all around don't know a lot about our history. And I think food is one thing that's really connected us to that. And I want to, like, continue.
- [10:32]
A
You want to explore that. So Isabel's going to have a show called we have that at Home, right? Yes. Which I love the concept of because that's something my mother used to say to me all the time, which is the idea of there's some trendy dish, there's some drink you have to have. And my mother would be like, well, we have that at home. Why would you go out and pay money for it? So you're going to show people how to make trendy things at home?
- [10:55]
B
Yeah, like trending things. Or even if you're craving, it could be something as simple as, like, I really want to go out and get a burger or something. Something that you want to go out and get you'd wait in line for, or maybe you'd order takeout with and that it's like, actually you can make that yourself. And I'll show you why it's like, not that difficult or not that intimidating. And it's actually more rewarding when you make it yourself to see everything in there. And I grew up with my mom saying that as well. And people always jokes having a negative association with it. But my mom is such a good cook that whenever she said we had it at home, we actually did, and it was actually better. So I want to try to, like, reframe.
- [11:31]
A
You're giving people the gift of your mom. I love that. Yeah, I hope so. Okay, so my generational knowledge question for you, Isabelle, real quick is how do 20 somethings want to entertain? Like, when I was in my 20s, it was all about going to sports and then just getting like, blackout drunk. Which I feel like is not how you all roll. So how. What are you all looking for or your. What is your little sliver of the 20something universe looking for?
- [11:55]
B
I think especially post Covid, there's a lot of social anxiety now that's come up. So in myself included, in ways that I never expected, I think just from fear of gathering again, fearing of being isolated for two to three years and then not knowing how to make friends again. I think it's.
- [12:14]
A
You get scared before you hang out with a group of people.
- [12:17]
B
Yeah. Sometimes. Even if they're people you know are mutuals. I think it can always still be intimidating when, you know, maybe you're going to an event alone or maybe there's some people you've never met. There can be a lot of ways of approaching that that are a little nerve wracking. And I think what everybody is really craving is just communal spaces. And there's many events or like house parties that I've been to that curate such a feeling around comfortability for everybody. So just feeling like you're coming into an old friend's house, you're hanging out with your good friends, even if you don't know them, trying to curate that sort of casual and comfortable vibe, I think is what everybody's looking for.
- [12:54]
A
And how are people doing that? Like in my generation that's like just serve very stiff drinks early. Do you drink when you go to parties or no?
- [13:03]
B
I do.
- [13:04]
A
Do most people not like, are you all doing like the Cal. What is it? The California.
- [13:08]
B
California sober? Yeah, definitely. Some people do that. I would say from what I've observed, most people have like one drink because I think it's just like it's having something to hold in your hand and also having something to just calm the initial nerves is always helpful. I don't know if it's. I think that it's important to have an option for something else to give people something to talk about just in case that intimidates them. Maybe people don't drink. That's definitely a new leaf. You know, people are turning a new leaf of like staying away from drinking a bit and doesn't necessarily mean, you know, the California sober way. But I think in that sense for creating parties or events for people that I might not know, I like to have other options of maybe an activity, maybe a talking point, maybe a game, or a general theme of the event so people know what they're showing up for. So there's no awkwardness of like, what am I doing here? Who am I gonna Talk to.
- [14:00]
A
That's a great idea.
- [14:01]
B
Yeah.
- [14:02]
A
Okay. And does your generation have vices? I think you guys are kind of vice free.
- [14:12]
B
That's true.
- [14:13]
A
Social media is the vice.
- [14:15]
C
Dune scrolling is the vice.
- [14:17]
A
Yeah.
- [14:17]
B
Do I agree?
- [14:18]
A
I think you might be right.
- [14:20]
B
I think so too. Doom scrolling.
- [14:21]
A
Like it's not sex. If you read anything, it's not sex. It's not. Drinking.
- [14:27]
B
No, I.
- [14:28]
A
Drugs?
- [14:29]
B
No, I wouldn't say so. I think it's the Internet. Scrolling is a drug. Like it's that like legitimately it's an issue and it's a. And that is also fueling into that vicious cycle of social anxiety because you're so online or you're so like addicted.
- [14:45]
A
To that it's hard to have conversations with people. It's boring. It's like, oh God, this guy has bad breath. Or like you just want of. Like you're in an interminable conversation with someone.
- [14:54]
B
Exactly. Yes.
- [14:56]
A
People don't. We were talking about this in the last episode where people don't have to sit through discomfort that much. And part of going to social experiences or unknown experiences is you might be uncomfortable for a little bit. Not unsafe or bad, but you don't know what you're going to get. You don't know how it's going to go. And this thing in your palm is very knowable.
- [15:17]
B
Absolutely. And as a host, I think it's important to put yourself in your guests shoes of knowing that is already going to come. Even if they're not socially anxious people. It's always. Those are always a thought that runs through people's mind. Like what is this going to be weird? Is it going to be. How's it going to go? Is the music going to be too quiet? Am I going to be awkward? There's so many questions. So as many of those thoughts and feelings that I can anticipate, the better just to create that environment. And I actually I saw something very interesting about people saying that that social media creates a frictionless world, which is very interesting because yeah, the more online you are, the less in person, the less real interactions you're having. Even if it feels real, there's no friction in that you can swipe away and be done with it versus in person. You have to live with that.
- [16:03]
A
You offend someone.
- [16:04]
B
Exactly.
- [16:05]
A
Your feelings hurt you hurt somebody else's feelings.
- [16:07]
B
You have to really deal with that in real life and have the skills to like manage that. Yeah, exactly.
- [16:12]
A
That's great. Okay, that's super helpful. So. So tell people where they can find you. Like, how do they follow you?
- [16:18]
B
Oh, please. Instagram or TikTok as Foodbaby. Foodbaby Bklyn. It's the cookbook club that was based in Brooklyn. That's where that came from.
- [16:29]
A
That's great. I love that name, Food baby, because.
- [16:31]
B
Just foodies one naturally have a food baby from eating too much good stuff.
- [16:35]
A
Oh, does that like mean your tummy?
- [16:36]
B
It's like, yeah. Like when you're like, I have a food baby.
- [16:38]
A
When you ate a cheeseburger. Okay, well, I love that.
- [16:41]
B
Thank you. Thank you. The name came from this really good burrito truck that I used to go to, like too many times, truly. But I just love them and it was just a massive burrito and always gave me a very big food baby.
- [16:52]
A
Well, that's awesome. Well, welcome Food baby.
- [16:54]
B
Thank you.
- [16:55]
A
And we're so happy you're here.
- [16:56]
B
I'm so happy to be here.
- [16:57]
A
That's great. Our next guest is very special. Helena, I'm going to let you introduce yourself in a second, but before we get to that. So every Tuesday or Wednesday or Monday, Tuesday, sorry. I get a draft of the Work Like a Girl newsletter and I get a draft in a Google Doc and yesterday I got the draft and Lindsay, who is our editor in chief of our Work Like a Girl newsletter was like, oh, Helena's gonna write this piece called My Sobriety is my superpower. Which I was like, vomit in my mouth. I can't imagine how this is gonna be. But like I was imagining like some sanctimonious person telling me why being chem free is better than drinking too much red wine in the course of a week, which is where I live now. But I read Helena's piece and I was really, really moved. I thought it was awesome. So awesome that I got on the slack. I slacked her. And I was like, would you ever come to Work like a girl? So here she is. So do you want to introduce yourself?
- [18:08]
C
Yeah, sure. So I'm Helena Shannon, founder, CEO, Archive Digital, brand new entrepreneur.
- [18:17]
A
Okay.
- [18:17]
C
So just started my company this year after a 10 plus year corporate career.
- [18:23]
A
Okay. And tell us how you what made you in the Work Like a girl Slack be like, I want to talk about my sobriety. Like, give us the Helena Journey.
- [18:34]
B
Yes.
- [18:35]
C
Okay, so just stop me if you want to go a different direction. But I. So I have always felt called back to corporate, if that makes sense. So I think we all have pieces of our journey and pieces of our career where we're like, fuck it, I'm done. I'm starting My own thing, I'm going out on my own. And I just started to notice the threads of my journey kept pulling me back into corporate America for whatever reason. And that brings me to why I wanted to write about this and Work Like a Girl is my sobriety, I started to realize was such a differentiator for me. And I knew that women in corporate specifically needed examples of women like me. And I started getting that feedback from people pretty early on in my career. Like my mid-20s, I'm 32 now. And I just was like, this is something that women are talking about in like hush hush circles, but not something that is being talked about publicly. So that's why I wanted to write about it for Work like a Girl because I guarantee you there's girls in that group that are gonna read this and be like, oh my gosh, me too. And I, I love that. And I want to be an example and be able to support and just show women that like your consciousness is a superpower. Like you being fully you is a huge superpower, especially in the corporate world. So that's part one. I don't know if you want to.
- [20:03]
B
Say anything about the beginning of the journey.
- [20:06]
A
I think it's great. I think that you're really brave and I think you're very courageous. And it's also very vulnerable to write about something that is so personal. But I also, what I really loved is that you were just so candid about the journey and one just figuring out, hey, I need to be sober. And then it dawning on you like, oh shit, this is actually helping me. I'm sharper, I'm better, I'm more alert. I think the last piece that I really loved was how hard it was for you to be in sales. Because I think when I think about any woman who is in sales, it is a rough riding, late night. Drink as much as you can, make people feel good, be vivacious and gregarious and you know, bubbly, literally. And just how you were. I want you to talk about that. Cause I think the texture of your story is really what made me really like fall for you. Like, I really admire what you're doing and I think the way you shared it was so heartfelt.
- [21:15]
C
Oh, well, thank you so much. And yeah, so I think I'll go just all the way back by saying it's a journey and it's been a journey. I. So I'm nine years sober this year. It's not a short amount of time. Right. And it took me a while to feel comfortable And I'll touch on that for a second. So when I first quit, I literally thought my life was ending. Like, no friends. I'm never gonna get invited to anything ever again. I'm never gonna have the marriage I want the career, I want the job, I want the vacation. Like, I was just like, this is it, I'm done. Like, this is terrible. And after about wallowing about that part of my life, I actually started a sober young women's meetup group in Chicago when I was 23 years old. And I got so much attention, I was like on the front page of the lifestyle section of the Chicago Tribune. We had 50 women meeting every other Friday for like a year plus. And to the point where like, I couldn't handle it. I. Sometimes I look back, I'm like, wow, I really should have gone down like the sober influencer path when I had the chance. But what I learned from that was like, I wasn't ready. So I had to really hone my concept of myself and like my just self confidence and self efficacy and like really become whole again. I know that sounds like a little woo woo. But I really had to come back to myself and it took a long time to really feel confident. And all through that journey, I was still in sales working. And that's where I really had to like reach and find mentors and find coaches and like find people that could support me while I was going out and like really raw into these spaces. And luckily I was just getting feedback. Like people were mirroring me, mirroring me back to myself. And I also had the advantage of being, I'm an extrovert. Like, I am not this person that, you know, had social anxiety and drank because I had needed to feel comfortable. Like I was very comfortable. I just like loved to party. Honestly, loved to party, loved being in the center of things, loved being like the nucleus that was at the center of friend groups or outings or whatever it was. So I had to just remember that that's who I am.
- [23:42]
A
Yeah. That has nothing to do with what you're eating or drinking.
- [23:46]
C
Yeah.
- [23:47]
A
And describe a little bit so, you know, so the way Helena writes about the story and if you want to read about it, you can join work like a girl slack and then you can sign up for our newsletter. But I liked that you almost went from the outside story back in. So you find yourself, you're 19, you find yourself in rehab, you're, I got a problem. This is too much. I gotta make a change. You then enter into the workforce and you are the person who is an extrovert and you want to bring everyone together and you have a job where you have to entertain and talk a little bit about how I liked how you described. So one of the things Helena describes is that she be like, I don't drink. I'm sober. I don't drink. And someone was like, shut the fuck up. Nobody cares. Stop talking about it.
- [24:32]
C
Nobody cares.
- [24:34]
A
Talk about how the lessons you learned in that process of how you accepted this new identity. Cause I think that's just to put another bite in it, which is we had another thing happen in the work, like a girl slack where somebody really screwed up at work. This is probably like two Thursdays ago. Like, really? She got drunk. She got drunk and she offended, deeply offended. Insulted a senior coworker. And she, to her credit, she put it in the help each other out section of the slack. I'm on the train. I'm reading it. By the time I read it, there had been like 40 women who had responded to it and what she and I were talking about. And I've seen this in my career a lot, which is when you screw up or when something is at the forefront of your cortex, vortex, whatever this is. You're like, I'm sober, I don't drink. Or I just fucked up and I feel so bad. And you forget that not everybody sees that thing glaring on your forehead the way you see it glaring on your forehead. And we talked about her situation in a way of like, hey, you gotta own the mistake. If you can be funny about it, even better. But you gotta move on, because at the end of the day, somebody else is gonna do something stupid tomorrow. So how did you learn to get over, like, you're having this identity change. You're having a big life change in terms of habit and orientation. Like, how did you get over the. Like, ah, I'm sober. I don't. I want to talk about it. Or not even I want to talk about it. You're. How do you become seamless with it?
- [26:11]
C
I mean, I think what you said. And it's like, nobody cares. It's so easy for us to center our experiences, right? Because we think it's. Our view of ourselves is like everything. It's like how we relate to the world. And that mentor saying to me, like, you don't owe anybody any explanations.
- [26:28]
A
Both.
- [26:29]
C
One was like, nobody cares. And also was like, you don't have to explain yourself to anybody. Like, people haven't earned the right or earned the relationship with you to know this, like, intimate, vulnerable, piece of yourself while you're going through it. Now, it's a little bit different because it's been nine years.
- [26:48]
B
It's.
- [26:48]
C
It's very much a part of who I am now. But I had to just kind of be like, this doesn't really belong at work and I can do a great job and show up and be myself and nobody needs to know. I also think alcohol is really interesting because it's very personal. So everyone's relationship with it is different. Like, of course, no judgment, but like, it's one of those things that just everybody has opinions on. So I started noticing, like, I would say it or I would not say it, or even if I didn't say it, people like, why aren't you drinking? Or it's just something that I think charges people up. And the more that I notice that, the more I could take myself out of it and then actually just be in relationship with people for whatever the topic was at hand or. Yeah, the conversation or the meeting. I think the other thing I want to add of just kind of lessons learned was I don't. And I don't. I don't think I've ever really heard anybody talk about this before. But getting sober, especially at such a young age, was really an exercise in like, personal responsibility and personal integrity. And that's what work is, right? Like, it's nobody else's job to take responsibility for how you show up, how something went, how you feel, how just all of that. And I feel like I learned really young and really early on to just be self responsible because I had to. And that served me and catapulted me in ways that I was light years ahead of my peers.
- [28:22]
A
Yeah, it's a sobering exercise. But also I really liked how you wrote about it where you were saying how you treat one thing is how you treat everything. And the idea of having that personal integrity, having that discipline, it's a lot of discipline to give up something, and it's a lot of discipline to become a new identity. And I really liked how you parlayed that, you know, the way you described it as your superpower, which is what you're really talking about is discipline, integrity, commitment. And I think it's a great thing for people to know and see. I also think it's important to talk about. I don't think you should be ashamed. Like, it's so funny. There is alcohol in particular, I think drugs probably too, and maybe sex, I don't know. But there's this shame if it's too much you know what I mean? And everybody gets too much into something like, that's life, and that you learned from it. And you're like, ooh, that was too much. That went too far. That was dangerous. That was unhealthy. But it doesn't define you. What actually defined you is all those things that you carry with you now.
- [29:34]
C
Yeah, no, I love that. And it's a re. It's funny. I. I've always been pretty public about it in my personal life. Like, if you know me, you know, I don't drink, but I've never, like, posted about on LinkedIn or, like, talked about it professionally. So here's kind of, like the coming day, I guess. But I do think it's so important because we all have our things, right? And I look at myself or look at other leaders, and I think it's such a. Like, I want to work for somebody who, you know, has integrity or stands behind what they say. I think it shows so much, like, truth and grit and just the essence of who somebody really is when they can say, like. And it doesn't mean, like, giving it up forever. But even, like, I made a mistake. And I think that's something that I. I've really learned and realized with being sober specifically, is, like, everything I say, I said, like, there's no, like, oops, like, I don't remember. Like, you're getting me 100 of me all the time, so there's no, like, hiding. And like, oh, that. Like, no, that's me.
- [30:41]
B
That's.
- [30:41]
A
I said that.
- [30:42]
C
That's been both, like, kind of scary at times when you might feel like, at least me being like, well, I'm the only one that ever tells the truth, or I'm the only one that says, like, the hard things. And it's a. It's a huge responsibility and a huge opportunity to be that person at work.
- [30:58]
A
That's so great. And talk a little bit about the superpower at work part of it. Like, I really liked, you know, how you found your edge. Like, talk about that.
- [31:07]
C
Yeah, I mean, I think I just kind of started to look around and I was like, wow, I'm clear all the time. And not that other people aren't. Like, I'm not necessarily comparing myself to other people, but, like, small example, you're out at a sales dinner, happy hour, networking event. People, you know, you kind of notice when people get three, four, five drinks in. It's like, I just started to notice things. Like, I remember everybody's name the next day. Like, I had people be like, how do you remember names so well? And I didn't realize that that was probably a product of me being just clear. Right. So there's. I started to notice these little things, like, I think, speaking up and telling the truth and, you know, meetings where you feel like, especially as a woman, like, I may not be the most senior person in the room, but I know I have a gut feeling here, and I've learned to trust that. So that's given me an edge. Remembering people's names has given me an edge. Being always on early and on time has given me an edge. It's kind of just these little things that you think don't matter, but stacked up over a career are actually really important.
- [32:17]
A
Yeah, I think that's great. And I also think. I think what's great about your story is that regardless of your relationship with alcohol or anything, these are things. It's how you show up. It's courtesy, remembering people's names, having attention to detail, being clear. Like, I think being clear is the greatest message of it all, which is people are not clear for a whole bunch of reasons, having to do with a whole bunch of dark stuff and a whole bunch of baggage that everybody brings with them. And I think the idea of just getting clear and right with yourself, and I give you so much. I think you should go be a sober influencer. Like, you're hugely successful. You're in your first entrepreneurship. You clearly climbed the corporate ladder. You're a good person. You're on a journey. I just. I give you so much credit. And I. I think anybody can take things away from you or from you. Not away from you, but take things from you.
- [33:19]
C
I will say too, just on the clarity thing, I think what goes hand in hand with that is also capacity, like my capacity to hold and process. Whether that's like, moving from one thing to the next. Emotionally, something comes in that's upsetting. Like just the navigating the emotions and the feelings. Like, you can't get sober without learning how to do that. So for me, just the capacity to hold has been such. Such an edge to capacity and clarity.
- [33:49]
A
Yeah, I love that. Capacity and clarity are two great things. I also think it's really hard to make the kind of change you're talking. It's hard to make increment, incremental change. Like, I struggle with this. I struggle with incremental change versus I always feel better if I make a. A not ruthless, but if I make a big, like, seismic change creates such better upside and results versus, hey, I know this really isn't. But I don't want to upset myself or someone else and I'm just going to make a little tweak to it and hope that it has the results. It never works. And so I think knowing yourself, knowing what you're capable of, knowing what centered means and knowing what you want to have capacity for, and knowing having clear eyes for that, it just opens up your potential.
- [34:43]
C
I totally agree. And I'll just say to you one last thing. Like I. The, the non alcohol or the non drinking alternatives that Gen Z now has was not a thing when I quit at 23 years old.
- [34:57]
A
Yeah, until you were in the, like.
- [34:58]
C
Envy them a little bit. But I also think this go like, I know we have a lot of Gen Z and younger people and work like a girl and, and all that too, but it's just such an opportunity. You don't have to be sober, you don't have to think you have a drinking problem, but you can choose clarity, confidence, integrity and responsibility every single day. And I think it's amazing that it's. I feel like this generation has such an opening for this topic and this conversation that like even just me as a millennial, like we didn't have the same, the same thing.
- [35:30]
A
I really appreciate you saying that because I think it's so easy to be like Gen Z, Gen Alpha. They're doing it all wrong. They're a mess. They've got all these crutches, they're miserable. But the reality is the aperture of the world has, you know, yes, the world is a dark place. And yes, the world has problems. And yes, we as people have problems, but the aperture has opened up. Where I'm Gen X, there was no alternative. It was like vodka or tequila, like there wasn't an alternative. But also I do think this generation is finding they're fighting to find fulfillment because so much of their happiness, I think, is taken away by the phone or by the Internet. But they also have more avenues and possibilities than before and there's just so much more acceptance.
- [36:23]
C
Yeah, I totally agree. I think it's a huge opportunity and I think at the end of the day they're like fighting for consciousness.
- [36:29]
A
Yeah, they're fighting like we're having a seized conversation. It's like clarity, consciousness capacity. What was your other one? I forget the other one. Clarity, consciousness capacity.
- [36:41]
C
Those are the C's.
- [36:42]
A
Those are the C's.
- [36:42]
C
Possibility, integrity. But those are the three C's.
- [36:45]
A
All right, we'll stick with our C's. Okay, Helena, thank you so much And I can't wait for people to. People will have read this by the time we have this, but thank you so much.
- [36:56]
C
Thank you for having me. I'm excited that this is the platform in which this will be out in the world.
- [37:01]
A
That's perfect. I think it's perfect. Good for you. You keep doing you.
- [37:05]
C
Thank you. I'm gonna take a quick picture of us.
- [37:07]
A
Oh, I love that.
- [37:09]
C
For socials.
- [37:10]
A
Great. Go. Go be an influencer.
- [37:12]
C
Thank you so much.
- [37:13]
A
Okay, bye. We'll see you later. Okay, now we're doing strategery. Our strategery phrase today is breaking down the silos. Okay. We have a lot of silos in our business, so I understand the intention of this, but it can be annoyingly used. So what does breaking down the silos mean? Breaking down the silos means breaking down the walls between divisions or people or sections or sectors of a business. Departments and teams are often called silos versus being called. The team names themselves. To be able to work better together, people need to break down the walls in between them. This is really about communication. I think sometimes, you know, I think at work all the time the hardest thing is actually doing the thing. And the easiest, simplest thing is doing the thing. Breaking down the silos is a good thing to want to do. I think the risk and the annoying thing about breaking down the silos is that the people who say breaking down the silos don't actually ever intend to break down or do anything. So in that regard, it can be very annoying.
- [38:23]
C
Now work.
- [38:29]
A
And that's it for our episode. So huge thanks to Isabel. Please watch her and follow her food, baby Brooklyn. And huge thanks to Helena. And that, I think, was so courageous. I think she did an amazing job. She posted a. Posted something on, I think, LinkedIn, and I got all this, like, flurry of activity of like, oh, you know, Helena. And I'm like, ah, Helena's great. So thank. Thanks to both those ladies for listening. You can follow us. You can read me on Substack. You can join the work like girl Slack. You can go look at beautiful fall furnishings on schoolhouse. Com. You can look at the New 52 and engage with all of our content. And I'll see you back here next week.