The Lost Art of Generosity at Work

Summary

Podcast Summary: Work with Erika Ayers Badan

Episode: "The Lost Art of Generosity at Work"

Host: Erika Ayers Badan
Date: August 18, 2025

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Overview

This episode focuses on the theme of generosity in the workplace—why it's disappearing, why it matters, and practical ways to nurture it. Erika shares observations from a recent company event, discusses current workplace trends (including company-wide wellness weeks and shifting vacation policies), and explores how digital culture shapes our generosity (and attention) at work. Through stories, remarks from the team, and sharp commentary, she offers actionable insights and candid reflection on managing people and staying human in a fast-moving, mess-prone business environment.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Challenges of Implementing a Wellness Week (07:25–10:33)

• Company’s attempt at a Wellness Week:
  • Mixed outcomes: Many used it as a chance to take two weeks off; some couldn't because of project deadlines or roles.
  • Erika’s Management Lesson: “Whatever you give is never enough. That's my first thing from management, like less than 101 of management, whatever you give is not enough.” (08:48)
  • Feelings of Inequality: Some got much more time off, others barely any—leading to a divide between “haves and have-nots” internally.
  • Practical Catch: The company already has unlimited PTO, making the formal Wellness Week somewhat redundant.
  • Conclusion: Erika is skeptical about continuing the program but is interested in feedback and improvement.

2. The Erosion of Generosity at Work (10:33–17:40)

• Tech’s Influence: Social feeds and digital environments foster self-absorption.

  • “Everyone is becoming more self-absorbed, self-focused… the narrowing of your brain and your heart and your energy and your... everything into this device makes you less aware about the world.” (11:11)

• A Generosity Case Study: The Tiara Pastry Box event debrief

  • Admits it was a “fucking shit show” (12:17), but the follow-up meeting was a highlight due to the “generosity of everybody’s time”—from sharing pain points to supporting each other.
  • Jessica Rose’s initiative: Pushed for transparency and open discussion, creating a space for honest reflection and learning.
  • Memorable Moment: “It was beautiful... that was one of the best meetings I've had here.” (13:04)
  • Team feedback was generous, constructive, and led to positive energy for subsequent work.

• Generosity in Feedback and Opportunity:

  • Erika brought an intern to a tense board meeting as a gesture of mentorship: “Because it's generous. Like it's what a great experience for her to see something like that firsthand.” (14:39)
  • Reflects on the importance of generosity in career growth, not just when there's personal gain or power at stake.

3. Celebrating Generosity in Networks and Events (17:40–18:46)

• Describes “Work Like a Girl” and company events as vibrant examples of generosity: people share advice, connections, and feedback unselfishly.
  • “It's not just women at work… these people are so generous with each other all the time." (15:10)
• Calls for practicing generosity not just upward or for strategic reasons, but laterally and downward as well, as a way to build fulfilling work cultures.

4. Erika’s Take on a Creative Banking Campaign (18:46–19:33)

• Applauds TD Bank’s “Own a Piece of It” campaign, which cleverly uses physical billboards and brand visuals to inspire retail investors.
  • “Banking advertising is one of the most unmotivating... unsexy, uncreative... but I thought it was a really great way to promote and market investing to retail investors.” (18:47)
  • Praises creativity in a typically bland industry.

5. Leadership, Management, and the Lines of Criticism (19:33–23:34)

• India Today Story: An Indian founder publicly shares a manager’s firing after harshly criticizing a staff member—lesson: feedback should focus on work, not personal attacks.
  • “You have to give feedback on the assignment, not comment on them as a person.” (19:56)
• Erika’s Perspective: Admits blurring work/personal lines is easy and a common struggle for leaders.
• Reflections on Workplace Softening: Notes a cultural tension—balancing generosity, respect, and high expectations.
  • Example: Elon Musk’s firing of a long-term assistant for asking for a raise.
  • “I think this guy... got fired more for the response to the crime than the crime itself.” (22:58)

6. The Coming Demise of the Smartphone and Changing Technology (23:34–28:12)

• Emerging Tech: The rise of AI-first devices, voice agents, and possible decline of the smartphone as we know it.
  • “Our AI agents will start to do that on our behalfs, meaning that we will be less present on the Internet.” (24:01, Guest D)
  • Erika finds this trend already visible—AI (like “Milo” the ChatGPT) is being personified and used conversationally.
  • Predicts future business and personal behavior shifts, including a nostalgic return to tactile, physical experiences (“the idea of waiting for something will be kind of a luxury...”).

7. Teaching Segment: The Art of Active Listening (28:12–32:31)

• Active listening defined: Listening with the intent to understand both facts and feelings; showing the speaker that you truly understand.
  • “Active listening is being present and being open to all different perspectives, including ones that are diametrically opposed or critical...” (28:35)
• Core Techniques:
  • Being fully present (no devices, multitasking, or distractions).
  • Using prompts like “What do you mean by that?” and “Tell me more.”
  • Paraphrasing: “What I'm hearing you say is...”
  • Labeling emotions: “You seem super frustrated” or “That seems incredibly exciting.”
• Practical Example: Used these techniques in the recent event wash-up to foster open, solution-oriented dialogue rather than a “bitch fest.”
  • Erika’s Pet Peeve: “There's nothing that gets under my skin more than just people whining.”
• Bottom Line: Active listening is a profound act of generosity—“because you're really being generous with your most important thing, which is attention.”

8. Strategery: Doing More With Less (32:31–end)

• Term in Context: “Do more with less” is ubiquitous as businesses strive for profitability—often a euphemism for working with fewer resources.
  • Erika’s candid take: It’s often “a call for efficiency and a call for focus and impact” but can feel punishing or disheartening if not managed with clarity about scope and tradeoffs.
  • “If we want the same outcome with fewer people, we gotta think about doing stuff differently...”
• Advice: Embrace the conversation, but clarify what sacrifices or changes are necessary to fulfill those demands without burnout.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Management’s Dilemma:
  “Whatever you give is not enough.” (08:48, Erika)

• On Generosity’s Disappearance:
  “I think generosity is something that is getting lost, and I think it's getting also lost at work.” (11:07, Erika)

• On Constructive Team Debriefs:
  “It was beautiful... that was one of the best meetings I've had here.” (13:04, C & B)

• Advice on Giving Feedback:
  “You have to give feedback on the assignment, not comment on them as a person. I actually thought that was a fairly sophisticated point.” (19:56, Erika)

• On Technological Change:
  “Our AI agents will start to do that on our behalfs, meaning that we will be less present on the Internet.” (24:01, Guest D)

• On Active Listening as Generosity:
  “Being an active listener is, I think, a really good thing to do. I think everybody can get better at it... because you're really being generous with your most important thing, which is attention.” (31:26, Erika)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [07:25] – Discussion: Pros and cons of company Wellness Week & vacation policy
• [10:33] – Generosity at work: Why it’s vanishing and what we lose
• [12:17] – Debriefing a difficult event with generosity and honesty
• [13:04] – Team members reflect on the power of open, generous conversation
• [14:39] – Intern mentorship as active generosity
• [17:40] – “Work Like a Girl” and the culture of generous problem sharing
• [18:46] – Analysis: TD Bank’s creative ad campaign
• [19:33] – Managerial lesson: Focus criticism on work, not person
• [23:34] – Technology segment: AI, devices, & the changing digital landscape
• [28:12] – Teaching: The art (and power) of active listening at work
• [32:31] – “Do more with less”: Advice on navigating efficiency and resource constraints

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Tone and Style

The episode is candid, fast-paced, and deeply rooted in real-world leadership—with a generous side of humor and self-awareness. Erika’s style is unapologetically direct (“fucking shit show”), practical, and often self-deprecating, making big ideas feel approachable.

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Summary

“The Lost Art of Generosity at Work” makes a compelling case for reviving everyday generosity—through mentorship, open feedback, company culture, and even how we listen. Each story and teaching point is a reminder that small, intentional acts of kindness and openness can dramatically improve not just workplace results, but also the fulfillment and growth of everyone involved.

Transcript

[A]

Lemonade off the island or whatever it is in, like, five seconds. Zero chance. I'm going on a reality show.

[B]

I want to go on one.

[A]

You would be great on a reality show.

[B]

It on reality.

[A]

You. Why don't you apply? What's wrong with you?

[B]

Dating one solely because they want. I want it to be like me, the only transgender person there, and then, like, screw. Like, I. I just want to around with the straight people just to, like.

[A]

So you wouldn't actually want to date any. You want to be on the Bachelorette or the Bachelor. Wait, sorry.

[B]

Like, Love island, where I can really fuck around with people. Like, I think would be really fun.

[C]

Yeah, Love Island.

[B]

Like, somewhere. Somewhere I could be like. Well, I heard she said this about you.

[A]

You just stir the pot. She would just stir the pot. All right. We should put all of that in here.

[B]

All right. People are gonna comment me. Comment me on the Internet, whatever. I don't care. Okay, so ready?

[A]

We already are starting this. We're just rolling.

[B]

Good morning.

[A]

Good morning. Jessica Rose. Jessica Rose and I had an event last night. I thought you did a great job.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

You did an amazing. Jessica Rose looked so pretty. Aw, thanks. She got rid of her hair extensions, which I think is a great thing. She says that she has her mother's hair. I'm like, everybody turns into their mother. So I'm sorry. I'm just gonna. I'm not gonna give you the foreshadowing of that. What did you think about it?

[B]

I thought it was great.

[A]

Give it the pitch. What was it? Tell the good people here.

[B]

So it was an event for Schoolhouse and worked like a girl. Kind of a different bent than what we've been doing for Nobody Cares. Our normal monthly event in the terms of, like, it was two interior designers, so specifically in that realm and that world. And I thought I would honestly, like, I should have told me, because I was like. She did all those questions and everything. Like, Meg wrote all of them.

[A]

Our Meg? Yeah.

[B]

And I should have written her and be like, hey, babe. She's like, not gonna touch that. And literally, I told Samantha that the shout out to Samantha Monte from Live United. She helped us put the whole thing together at the Mayberry. It was really incredible.

[A]

And Mary Busby. I think Mary Busby did an amazing job. And Meg. Meg is awesome.

[B]

Literally, everybody that was involved.

[A]

Parrish, Liz. Yep. Alicia, everybody did a great job. There's, like, a bunch of really great women who put that on. And Sarthik. And shout out Sarthik's mama. Sarthik's mama. That was so.

[C]

She had a ball. She was so happy.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

She was so elated. She was so happy.

[A]

She was so cute. No, she was sweet, small, non sequitur. So I asked Sarthik's mom what Sarthik was like as a baby or a kid. And she was like, he's so compassionate and empathetic. Which is a wonderful thing for somebody to say about you.

[C]

That makes me so going back to turning into your mom, turning into your mom.

[A]

That's a good thing to turn into. But anyway, so, yeah, so Meg, I love Meg so much. Meg works for very high powered people who are, who are much, much more organized and disciplined than I am. So Meg put together like 40 questions. They're all super thoughtful. It's well done.

[B]

Very like. Yeah.

[A]

And clearly one of the designers was like, oh, I can't wait to answer this one question. And I was like, oh, what question is that? Like, I haven't even looked at this thing. And then I could tell she was biffed at me the whole time because I didn't ask it. Yeah. But I was like, nobody. It was about menopause and motherhood. I'm like, no one here has even had a child yet, let alone be in menopause. But it was a great event. And Meg did a great.

[B]

Yeah, it was so funny. But I did tell Samantha. I was like, she's not gonna touch these, I guarantee you. And then literally like you said it on the mic, you're like, oh, I have all these questions that I haven't even looked at them. And I literally turned to her and I said, what did I tell you?

[A]

But it was great. Okay, so what are we doing, Jessica?

[B]

So this week you have a sprint.

[A]

Oh, I got a Suhan time. We have gotta get Suhan into the mix on this.

[B]

Oh yeah, no, we have fun.

[A]

We're build up Suhan. I love Suhan. Suhan's trying to teach me Jira, which means that I sit with Suhan twice a week and then he takes me through the like fuck system about where it sits. And he's like, I just want you to know I'm doing it and you could check it anytime. I was like, I'm never gonna check that. You did.

[B]

Have you ever been on Jira before?

[A]

Yes, I have my own Jira.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Have you been on Jira?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How have you used Jira?

[B]

My first job, my first job, it was for a website, for like a social media website. So I would use it to report all the bugs on the website that's great.

[A]

It's not intuitive in the meaning.

[B]

It's not terrible.

[A]

It's not intuitive. But I. I can see why Suhan likes it. And people can afford it for sure. It's really cool.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so we're doing that. I got a bunch of one on ones I have.

[B]

You've got. You're filming another episode of this?

[A]

Oh, I'm meeting with Adam Faitz. I'm very excited about that. We're doing a CX deep dive. I'm excited about that. And then you also have a business meeting.

[B]

A meeting with. So far, sounds.

[A]

Oh, I'm excited about that.

[B]

Which is going to be good. And then you have. On Wednesday you have a Work Like a Girl virtual event.

[A]

Oh, we do. We're doing a virtual event. Okay.

[B]

I don't know which one, honestly, like, I've lost track of the virtual ones now.

[A]

Same. I just show up and I'm like, how are we talking about? Oh, I'm going to the dentist. That's exciting.

[B]

That may probably have to move. Yeah. Because you are going to do a different event for Google.

[A]

Oh, is that where I'm going to Google?

[B]

That's Google.

[A]

Oh, I'm going to Google.

[B]

Yeah. So you're going to do an event?

[A]

I'm going to go see my friend Marta. I'm very excited to go to Google. Those Google people are organized.

[B]

Yes. You have the lunch with Marta beforehand?

[A]

Oh, I do. Well, that's exciting.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

We're over.

[B]

Where? Swiss's dentist.

[A]

All right. Everybody's got a dentist.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Have you been to the dentist recently?

[B]

No.

[A]

You got to go to the dentist.

[B]

I know, I'm bad about that.

[A]

You have to book it, like tomorrow.

[B]

It's the worst thing that I, like, hate in the world.

[A]

Just the dentist or the doctor?

[B]

The dentist. The doctor's fine. I don't like getting my blood drawn. But like, dentistry is like, I loathe. Like, loathe.

[A]

You gotta do it though, Jess.

[B]

Gross.

[A]

Twice a year.

[C]

Aw.

[B]

I have to get this retainer out. I have a permanent retainer that I have to design, like 10 years old. No.

[A]

She is so crazy that Jessica Rose. Oh, my God. Jessica Rose shows up at this thing yesterday at her, like, fucking Labubu Lenami, whatever it is, is falling off her bag or stuffed animal or teddy rucks.

[B]

It, like, fell off my bag in the street.

[A]

And I was like, Jessica Rose shows up with her. The stuffed animals on this. I'm like, what if.

[B]

What.

[A]

What am I doing with my life? Like, it Was very funny.

[C]

Didn't you say you got a L?

[A]

Alicia gave me a. What do you call. Lefufuu is the fake one.

[B]

Now you know the term.

[A]

Yeah, this. This is.

[B]

This is progress. When we started, you had no idea. We were like, what is that? Now she knows all the terminology.

[A]

Disappointed. I'm not into it. I don't. I didn't think that the unboxing wasn't enough. Dick. Do you remember the OMG dolls?

[C]

I've heard of those.

[A]

Yeah, the OMG Dolls. Like you to break your fingernails to get into. It was so difficult. That was unboxing.

[B]

Okay. I never thought those were cute.

[A]

Oh, I love those.

[B]

Not my thing.

[A]

I would collect those all the time.

[B]

And then, yeah, on Thursday you have a breakfast with Hillary, and then you have a vice meeting, a product meeting, your monthly sales team, touch base. And then, yeah, you have another doctor's appointment on Friday. And yeah, that's pretty much your week.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

I'm sure it'll get filled up a little bit more, but.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Generally, that's your week.

[A]

I hope not. Week after vacation's always tough.

[B]

I know.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, thank you.

[B]

Bye.

[A]

Okay. Welcome back to work. I'm Erica. We talk about work here. Our company just had a Wellness Week, which I don't. I'm 5050 on the wellness Week. So we had a Wellness Week because some number of people in our company had an absolute meltdown last holiday. Because when you work in the retail business, the holidays are tough because they're typically salespeople's sales periods and everybody's working all the time. And that was the right thing to do. It's kind of like when. When you do performance reviews at the end of the year and it also coincides with your busiest season and nobody can take a break. The office is closed, but everybody's still working. That sucks. So I get the idea of having a Wellness Week. We agreed to do a wellness week in 2025. The week of August 11 was the wellness Week. Here are my observations on the Wellness Week. One is that a shocking number of people took two weeks off, which I was like, oh, I was surprised by that. I was like, oh, you motherfuckers. You just added a week of vacation on this thing. I see you. I see you. Content team. I know what you're. But I thought it was smart. I was like, I get it now. You get a 14 day vacation. So our content team is on vacation this week. And then there's half the company that's on the vacation the week after Wellness Week. So one is that like whatever you give is never enough. That's my first thing from management, like less than 101 of management, whatever you give is not enough. Observation number two is that there's no good week for vacation. Like a company vacation. Like no matter what the intention of August is supposed to be the slowest period of time. We're doing a three pl migration. We just launched a new website. Like there's entire groups here who cannot take the week off. So it also kind of creates like it creates like the have and have nots. It's kind of a weird feeling like some groups are taking two weeks vacations, other groups aren't able to take a vacation, take a break at all. And other groups were smarter yet where they're kind of load balancing where people get a couple of days off here and a couple of days off here, off there. Now the other entirely stupid thing about this is this company has unlimited pto. So the idea of Wellness Week is actually like utter bullshit because anyone can take vacation whenever they want. So anyways, I don't know if we're going to continue with Wellness Week. I'm just sharing, sharing that here. But it was a good experience. I'm looking forward to people's feedback on it. I am excited myself to take most of the week off. Although the chair people are like hey, can you meet on Tuesday? And I was like, yes I can. So I'm back on the grind. So I get Monday off. Okay, so that's that. Other things that I've been thinking about. I have to itch my nose for a second. So just cut this. My nose gets so itchy.

[C]

I'm gonna jump cut to just that.

[B]

Just the nose.

[A]

You assholes. So that's Wellness Week. So we'll see how Wellness Week goes. If your company has a Wellness Week or you have a better way to manage vacation, please do let me. The second piece that I've been thinking about is generosity at work. So Sarthik and Suhan and I were having this conversation about generosity, which I think is a word that people, they don't use much anymore and it's a quality that's becoming a little bit rare I think as we all become more selfish because we're looking at a feed that is designed for us and that's kind of tricking us into being addicted to more and more things. Like everyone is becoming more self absorbed, self focused. I don't say it as a criticism. I just think like the narrowing of your Brain and your heart and your energy and your. Everything into this device makes you less aware about the world. And it sucks your time and your energy and your perspective that I think generosity is something that is getting lost, and I think it's getting also lost at work. You know, it's been really. It's been really interesting to me. Like, we had this awesome meeting, which you guys should chime into. I really have an itchy nose. So we had this awesome meeting yesterday where we had had this event for T ara's launch, for the launch of the Pastry Box. It was a fucking shit show. Like, it was a. It was. I've had actually one other event in my career, which I wrote about in my book that went worse than that, but I would put it as number two. So, like, it was bad. Bad Idea Jeans. Everyone was angry. It didn't go right. It was super stressful. There were tears. Like, it just wasn't. Just wasn't a good situation for a whole bunch of reasons. And Jessica Rose was like, I think we need to talk about it. Which I was actually super proud of you. I think that's like a great thing to talk about things when they go wrong. So we had a wash up yesterday and I was like, you know what? Like, of all the shit I have going on in this company right now, which is like, some of it's like a little white knuckle. Like, it's stress trying to manage the cash. I had a board meeting today. Like, it's fucking stressful right now. I'm like, do I need to be spending an hour of my time on the Tiara Pastry Box launch wash up? But I was like, you know what? Like, the most generous thing to do would be to give the time. And it's generous of everybody to contribute the time. It's not just my time. Everybody is generous of their time. I thought that was an awesome meeting.

[C]

It was beautiful.

[B]

I think it was probably like, that.

[A]

Was like one of the best meetings I've had here.

[B]

In general, I think, like, when there's a clear. I think that's like the main thing to take away from it. Like, when there's a clear directive, like, hey, we're talking about this. And like, this is what, like, you know, what do you want to get out of this? I think, like, that's why it went so well.

[A]

I think it went well because people were. I think I made a joke of it in the meeting, which is. I'm like, did everybody feel heard? Which is. I feel like management is the next Thing you have to ask, which is annoying, but it actually did feel good where everybody got to say their piece. Everybody was generous with their feedback, everybody was contributing to make something bigger than them successful. I thought it was very respectful, the dialogue of like, hey, this didn't go right and that didn't go right. And it kind of sparked and inspired all different kinds of conversations. Like Justin, I walked into the office this morning. Justin's like beaming about the meeting. And I was like, you know what? I'm beaming about this meeting too.

[C]

Like, I same with Isabel.

[A]

I just thought it was so good to talk about shit.

[C]

But I wish like the people who couldn't make it there were also there because they would also get on the same page. Because like I felt like, oh, the people who couldn't make it there because they were.

[A]

Because they're on their two week fucking business.

[C]

Exactly. Or like, no, I think was like filming and I'm just like, oh, like.

[A]

I wish it would have been great. Like it was such good energy. And I think like, that's the benefit of generosity, of like giving your time, giving your feedback, taking the moment to teach something or to receive input when it's just generous. Like, I think being good to one another in that way. Like I had, I had like Christina, the interns last day was yesterday. And I was like, you know what? Like, I'm gonna have a tense board meeting. Do you wanna show up as your like grand finale of working here? And she was like, I totally do. She, her job ended yesterday. She showed up today on it. And everyone's like, what the fuck are you doing? Why are you bringing this girl along? And I'm like, because it's generous. Like it's what a great experience for her to see something like that. Firsthan. And I think of all the lucky breaks in my career were like, because someone chose to open up their aperture and be generous to me. And so my call to arms on this is that try to be generous. Like when I we had this event last night for At Home at work. And the way what's so inspiring to me about work, like a girl and makes me so excited. It's not just women at work. Like, it's like, it's not. It has nothing to do with the gender of it all. It's that these people are so generous with each other all the time. Generous with advice, generous with perspective, generous with feedback, generous with connections. And like you go to an event like we had last night, like the generosity of our whole team working on it or Meg Mailing, you know, stickers from Florida to be there. And then just the people themselves being willing to connect with one another. I think, I think being generous when you don't have to be and with people who are not more powerful or offer you something is just a really, really great thing. Like, it was so interesting. I had this breakfast yesterday morning with like an older, very accomplished, very rich gentleman in his like 70s, I would say 60, late, let's, he probably wouldn't like to hear that, let's say mid-60s. And it was like, it was like fancy person after fancy person, like Bill Clinton and you know, David Zaslav and like, and then I like, God, you rub elbows every day with like fancy, fancy, fancy, fancy people. And then I'm like, I'm spending my day with like 20 somethings and Lefoufu's and you know, like fucking around here over on the Internet. But I was like, there is something so fulfilling about being in a place where people can be generous with one another, not because each other are powerful or there's some greater motive or there's money on the line or whatever. But I really do think being generous, if we could be in the mindset of being generous to yourself when things don't go well, being generous to other people, being kind to other people, being generous with feedback and sharing and giving opportunity, I think that is the greatest gateway to people being happier at work and also learning more at work. So our first current event I saw on Instagram, TD bank, which is TD Bank, I want to say they started in Boston. I always feel like TD Bank's a Boston brand. But long story short, TD bank created this genius, genius, genius, genius ad campaign where they were trying, they are clearly trying to reach out to retail investors. And what they did was to strategically put billboards or physical structures in front of very well known, very premium logos. So TD bank didn't have the money to put the Nike logo, get the license to use the Nike logo in their ad. They probably wouldn't have gotten permission. But what they did is they found a loophole and they created a structure and cut a hole out of it so that when a passerby walks by the billboard you can see the swoosh. And then the message from TD was own a piece of it. So you'd walk by Nike, you'd walk by Apple, you'd walk by all sorts of public companies. Starbucks for example, Coca Cola, you name it. And I thought it was just a really creative way. Banking advertising is one of the most unmotivating Unsexy, uncreative. Just the amount of disclosure you have to put in the ads alone. But I thought it was a really great way to promote and market investing to retail investors. Own a piece of it is like a great motivating phrase and I think the idea of how to use out of home this way was so smart. So I loved that.

[C]

It was awesome.

[A]

That was awesome.

[C]

When he said that, I was like, I don't. Have you seen them in the wild T.D.

[B]

No, I don't.

[A]

I wonder if they're in New York City.

[C]

I feel like it would be like a.

[A]

They're not on the ferry, I can tell you that.

[C]

It feels like one that would be in New York.

[A]

We should put one outside of our office. Just own a piece of food. 52.

[C]

This one.

[A]

Oh, this one's an interesting one. This is layered.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So, all right, so it's another India Today.

[A]

I mean, India Today is just having a moment. So we're big on India Today here on the work podcast. But this is an interesting story. So there's a company in India who, hi, there is a founder based in Goa and the founder hired someone to be a manager of other people. And the founder wrote this piece on LinkedIn that said I hired someone on Monday and fired them on Friday. It wasn't my proudest moment, but not and wasn't the easiest conversation either. We just hired a new senior team member and this is exactly what was said in front of me. Did you leave your brain at home? If this is the best you can do, you should look for a new job. Bring your brain tomorrow or don't bother coming. So the person that the founder hired said this to an underling in front of the founder. This happened at 6pm during an assignment review of an executive. I asked the senior exec, the person this guy hired, to stay back on the call and to clarify that we don't want anyone to end their day feeling humiliated, especially on a Friday. This will spoil the weekend. We have to give feedback on the assignment, not comment on them as a person. I actually thought that was a. A fairly sophisticated point, which is I think a lot of times managers blur the line between criticizing someone personally versus criticizing the work that's been done. I'd be lying if I said I don't also struggle with this. I think everybody struggles with this. What the founder expected was understanding, but what he got was an hour long and what he called ego driven battle later. And what the person in question said was this is how you build strong teams. The Founder knew he had made a hiring mistake and then fired the person on the spot. So I thought this was an interesting. It was, you know, and the feedback is a gift realm. This was an interesting dialogue. I think it's great for the founder to be so transparent. I think it's a great reminder that when you do criticize people, make it about the work and do your best to remember that it is about the work. Sometimes people can be so frustrating that it is hard to not make it personal. But it just was a good reminder of how easily those lines can, can be blurred. I also think that there is a softening of the workplace which, you know, I don't know. I, I have mixed feelings on it. Like I, I've been reading, you know, all the Elon Musk Tesla stuff. So all the Elon shits in my feed all the time. And like I had a post today where he fired. You guys hear about this. He fired his assistant of 12 years because she asked for a raise. And Elon was like, no, you know what? Go on a two week vacation. So the woman goes on. The woman had supported him for 12 years, supported him on the personal front, support him on the exec front, like had seen Tesla through a crazy run, had launched all the other businesses, whatever. Elon did her job for two weeks. She came back from her vacation and he was like, I can do your job better than you, you're fired. So it was actually quite interest. So, you know, I think we're in this dynamic at work of being respectful, being generous like we just talked about, but also being demanding and blunt and forthright and needing and wanting to get results. And I think that's actually good tension at work. I think if this person that this founder guy hired, if he had been like, you know what, you're right, I was an asshole and I went too far and there was a better way to handle that. You know, I think that'd be a good sign. I think this guy, this person who got fired, got fired more for the, for the response to the crime than the crime itself. But I do think there's a lot of interesting stuff like that happening at work.

[C]

There's, there's another one. Smartphones and the Internet as we know it, it's like a video if you want to watch it.

[D]

And smartphones are going to go away. And the Internet as we know it, including social media and how we use it, will also over time disappear. And I'm going to give you some really strong pieces of evidence for what's happening. First, you could see in Google's announcement yesterday about AI agents shopping and doing things and searching on our behalfs. So over time we are going to do less of the doing on the Internet, the clicking, the browsing, the watching, the streaming things for information and whatnot. And our AI agents will start to do that on our behalfs, meaning that we will be less present on the Internet. So our relationship with it and our need to be there and watch things on it will change. And again, this isn't tomorrow or even next year. I'm talking about the trends over time that leads directly into if we no longer need to do as much of the. The doing because it's like the clicking, the swiping, the browsing because our AI agents take care of that. That changes the nature of what I need for my device. Do I need to continuously look at a screen or will I just start talking to my agent and it does more. And so we're at the beginning of what's going to come next and replace the smartphone. And you can see glasses coming in pretty clearly because we'll need to view some things sometimes. And I think glasses isn't what it stops. I think that there's going to be another AI first device. But even just recently, OpenAI announced they are acquiring an AI first device company. Our phones have always changed over time and that's not going to stop. And how we entertain, how we engage, how we communicate with one another, technology has also always changed. And again, these aren't changes that are going to happen next week or next year. But over time our smartphones will disappear and so will what we currently call the Internet. In some ways. Not that the Internet leaves, it just becomes something different. But you can think of social media and all of the ways we connect. That's also going to change.

[B]

Thoughts?

[A]

I have so many thoughts. One is she's. I think she's totally right. I think I came home the other day and Swizz was like talking to someone. I'm like, who the fuck is Swizz talking to? He's like, oh, I'm just talking to Milo. And I'm like, who's Milo? He's like, oh, it's my chatgpt. I named it Milo. And they just talk to each other all the time.

[C]

I started Talking to my ChatGPT.

[A]

It's so nice. They talk the. I think we're here on that. Like the. The vocal intonation, Milo says. And er. And light. It feels Milo. I feel. I don't know if Milo's special But like, he is like, it's creepy. It's so real. So one is like talking to your advice, having, you know, or talking to your agent, having your agent fetch for you. I think we're there. Two is the phone is definitely going to change. You know, where you think about is the device, Is the screen more ambient? Is the content displayed in something that is not in the palm of your hand? Do you need to have as much in the palm of your hand? I think that also is 100% going to change. I think it'll be so interesting to see, like, when you look at CES next year, it'll be all about AI first devices. CES this year was probably a lot about that, but I think that's also really true. I disagree on entertainment. I think that Google and Facebook will be very, very, very reticent to give up the page views and to give up the engagement. And they will be clawing and fighting so hard to get you to stay in that feed. So I think that will be the last thing to go. And maybe the feed lives somewhere else. But I think they're going to want your eye on it and they're going to want you scrolling and clicking through it because that's how they. It makes me wonder if more advertising, like, everything old is new again. Like, if more advertising will be audio and it will be ambient versus visual and video. Like, I think that's going to be really interesting.

[C]

So anyways, magazines, I think, like, what's that?

[A]

Like, physical people, I think they'll be, you know, the pendulum will switch, will, you know, swing all the way and then, you know, the generation after you will want, like, physical things and physical things will have a premium to them. And.

[C]

Yeah, because they've never really. Like, they don't have.

[A]

They just don't have any of that.

[C]

They don't have a tactile.

[A]

They don't have a tactile piece and they've never had to wait for anything. So the idea of waiting for something will be kind of a luxury. Like, it'll be cool, it'll be rare and special. You know, like, you already kind of see it, like the whole Labubu and the blah, blah, blah, like opening something and you don't know what's going to. The whole thing of it is you're opening something, you don't know what it is.

[C]

The mystery behind it.

[A]

The mystery. So, like, I don't. I can't wait for it to come. I'm waiting for it. That's the. A good feeling. And what people want is good feeling. So anyways, I think it's super interesting. All right, so we're doing a teaching segment. What we are talking about, in the spirit of generosity, is active listening. So active listening is an art. I think it's something that takes practice and takes time, and you're better at it some days than other, and you're way better at it with some people than others. So I think active listening is a great way to. Is a great way to be generous, to be honest with you. So what is active listening? By definition? Active listening is intentional listening is intentional listening that aims to understand both the facts and the feelings and that you show the speaker that you understand what they're saying. So I think a lot of times when people get into tough conversations, emotional conversations, heated conversations, conversations that provoke and spark fear, conversations that are triggering or whatever it is, things that are sensitive, it's very easy to shut down and stop listening. And it's very easy to project hostility, resistance, defensiveness, fear, insecurity, outbursts, all that kind of stuff. So the whole thing around active listening is that if you are in a conversation with someone, if you take for example, our conversation we had about the event last week, is giving everyone the floor and being unemotional about what's said. So I think the first piece of it is active listening is being present and being open to all different perspectives, including ones that are diametrically opposed or critical and are potentially critical of you. Right. So putting your device away, not multitasking, not being half present. You know, I think active listening is super tough on video and over zoom or on Google Meet. So really making sure that you are there and present in a conversation goes a long way. I think it makes people feel like you are invested in them. You care what they have to say. You are listening. You are. Are thinking about what you are thinking about the subject matter at hand. And a big part of active listening is just feeling that intent, which is that you care. I think the other piece of it is that you want to be. That you want to be not reactive, not defensive, not interrupting, not diminishing, but you want to use phrases and words in active listening that prompt a deeper conversation. So instead of when somebody says something to be like, well, that's not how it happened, or, well, I disagree, or, well, you're wrong to say, well, what do you mean by. And not in a bitchy way, but like, what do you mean by that? Or go tell me more about that. I think one of the things if you talk to therapists or you talk to people in the therapy and mental health space. Like the words go on are big words that are used. That's active listening, right? A therapist's job is to be an active listene or to a person. And you can use that same thing at work. What do you mean by that? Tell me more. Does it always happen that way or does it sometimes that way? The other thing that shows active listening or is it a good aspect of active listening is paraphrasing. So basically to say, hey, what I'm hearing you say is XYZ ABC123, right? I'm hearing you say we have a budget issue, Is that right? And really making sure you're breaking down what someone is saying. A lot of times when people talk, it's really their emotions come out. And so really breaking it down to the big core issues at hand. So I think that's another part of it. The other piece is to label emotions. So when you're an active listener, you are validating or acknowledging how someone feels. So you're saying, wow, that you seem super frustrated or that seems incredibly exciting. Like you're validating the emotion someone is bringing into the conversation. We talked about this with the charisma wheel, which is the more you mirror someone's energy and the more you mirror their body language, the more they feel that they have a kinship with you and that they're being understood. And then I think the other pieces of being an active listener are really making sure to summarize what was discussed, what was decided, what's still open for debate, and then to follow through and play through that conversation the other way. We used this in this meeting. Like, one of the things I was worried about in the meeting we were having is that it was going to be a free for all of, like, this person sucks and that person did this and fuck that and I hate this. And like a bitch fest, like a whining session, which there's nothing that gets under my skin more than just people whining. I hate whining. But for me, anyways, in this conversation is like we had to kind of get both things out. Like, we had to set the stage for which Jessica Rose and I worked on, which I think we did a good job of, of, hey, we're gonna be doing more of these things. How would we do it better? So setting the context of what are we trying to solve for, and let's put our eyes to the future or our focus on someplace positive. And then the second piece of it is giving People to the space to share what they feel went wrong. And also challenging and encouraging people to give suggestions about what can be better. I think the other big thing at work, which is people just show up with problems and they don't show up with solutions, is really, really frustrating. And being an active listener and an active participant in a conversation can help prompt solutions from people who aren't really ready for them or ready with them. So. So being an active listener is, I think, a really good thing to do. I think everybody can get better at it. I think I can get better at it. But I think it's a great way to be generous because you're really being generous with your most important thing, which is attention. And I think being an active listener is really just a way of showing someone you care and you are invested and you have the right intention for them. Strategery. We're doing strategery. Do more with less. I say this every goddamn day. So I'm going to throw no shade on the do more with less strategery word. What does it mean? It means to do more with less. So you got to get the same job done, or you've got to get the same result with fewer people. Do more with less can be very, very offensive at work. It can be very frustrating at work. It can be very. Grading more with less is a very difficult concept. I don't think it's a strategic word. I think it's a call for efficiency and a call for focus and impact. I think everyone can always be more efficient. You know, we had a board session today, and, you know, like, one of the questions I was anticipating was, like, well, why can't you cut costs more? Like, why can't we cut more costs? And I'm like, like, we've cut our staff by like, 32%. I'm not sure we can cut much more now. The reality is, is, yes, of course we can cut costs more. Should they be people costs? I don't know. Could they be operating costs? Probably. But the bigger question is, hey, if we want the same outcome with fewer people, we gotta think about doing stuff differently. If we just want fewer people, that's totally cool. Let's just stop doing this line of business, or let's stop working on this system, or let's stop. Stop serving this customer. I'm talking about this hypothetically, but I think the do more with less is something that we shouldn't be defensive about at work. I think it's very easy to feel criticized, to feel small, to feel punished. But I would also encourage folks to say, no problem, I can do more with less. But here are the trade offs or here's what this means. We can't do this or we gotta do this differently or I've gotta limit the scope of this thing. I think in very few cases you can or not very few. In some cases you can in fact do more with less. If you have a lot of inefficiency, if you have a lot of fat in your system, if you just have a lot of inertia. I was having a conversation with someone today and she was saying how when she worked for the Federal Election Committee or something that they had to tell people to stop going to the movies every day at work. Like in that scenario you can do more with less. In a scenario where you have very little headcount and you're trying to do a lot and you've already made great strides to have and be less, it's very hard to. So do more with less. I think that's a phrase that's here to stay. It's also a phrase here to stay as companies are trying to be profitable in a very topsy turvy economy and in a time where the costs of goods because of tariffs and a whole bunch of other things are very uncertain. That at least and true in our business. So that's it. Thank you for listening. Come back here next week. It's going to be exciting. Sark's on vacation. Sak's on the double. On the double. Double. Well, you're on the double, Devil, so. Well, okay. I'm sure everybody says that Jessica Rose is going to Japan. So we're gonna get a big report from Jessica Rose when we get back. And thank you for listening and join work like a girl. If you want to be part of the slack hive, follow us on Substack. Shop at Schoolhouse. It's beautiful. I think lighting can change a whole room. And Schoolhouse has the best lighting on the planet. Go to Food52, check out Tiara if you're in New York City. Go to the pastry box, grab her cookie and we will see you back here next.