← Work with Erika Ayers Badan
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- [00:00]
A
I love Gen Z. I know they get a bad rep.
- [00:03]
B
I'm all in on Gen Z. I.
- [00:04]
A
Even make fun of them myself. I have. I have Gen Z people on my team. I like them because they ask very. Like they just will ask, why, why? Why do I have to do this this way?
- [00:18]
B
Yeah.
- [00:18]
A
And it does challenge me to really ask myself, is there a better way to do this? Is this pointless? Is this just a task or a habit that I can actually drop? Work, work, work, work, work. Now work.
- [00:39]
B
Cat, I just can't get enough of your YouTube show, which is called Drunk at Work. So for the good people here who haven't had the benefit of watching it, describe Drunk at Work.
- [00:53]
A
Drunk at Work is a new way of consuming weekly corporate smut and scandal news.
- [01:06]
B
It.
- [01:06]
A
It's a comedy, obviously, there's a lot of satire in it. I am getting lit on each episode, which is just my way of connecting with the audience who might be feeling some kind of way about all of these headlines. And it's just my way of saying, yeah, it makes me want to drink too.
- [01:32]
B
I think it's hilarious. I love. First of all, people need to take the piss out of work more than they do. Like, there's so many feelings about work around work, and humor and satire, I think is just, like, in such short supply. Like, even if you have the shittiest job on the planet, or you're facing the worst economy in decades, or you. You have the worst boss you can imagine, Like, a little humor goes so, so far. And that's why I just want to give voice to what you do, because I think it is so funny. What made you decide to make this?
- [02:10]
A
I wish that I could say it was like I had full agency in starting this show, but it really. What happened was I shot a pilot for an actual TV show for four years ago. It was very similar in the sense of it's like a fake talk show. And I said the most unhinged things like an HR professional would ever say. And I was glad it didn't go anywhere at the time. But then a couple of months ago, the creator called me and he was like, they've picked up the show, this huge production company. They thought you were a professional comedian. We want you to write on the show. We want you to have a recurring segment on the show. And it really came down to the decision of, could I continue doing actual HR for companies if I make this show? And it really came down. Down to it being a no, it probably not. And so instead of waiting to be scheduled. I'm sure you understand how production works. You have to wait to be get on the schedule for pre production, get into the writer's room. All the things I'm like, well, how can I keep myself busy? And then I had a dream about drunk at work and I woke up the next day and just started like fleshing out the ideas and how it was going to look and what the beats were going to be. And honestly, that's what it came to.
- [03:50]
B
It's so great. I think it's so funny. All right. What do you think people get right about HR people when they make fun of them and what do they get wrong about HR people?
- [04:02]
A
HR people historically don't know a lot about business. And the misconception with HR is HR is here to put police employees, whether that's making sure they're doing their job or creating these rigid policies. So I do think that when people make fun of HR in that way, they are absolutely correct. I've seen this a lot. I think that what they get wrong about HR is that people think HR have much more decision making power than they actually do do. So a lot of time HR gets the brunt of bad decisions that companies are making when they weren't even in the room when that decision was made. Or leadership is not giving them the opportunity to make certain decisions that need to be made.
- [05:00]
B
Yep. And what do you love and hate the most about your HR job? Do you not want to say that? You probably don't want to say that, right?
- [05:09]
A
Oh no. Oh no. I'll say whatever you want me to say, Erica.
- [05:13]
B
Oh great. Well, let's go. What do you love and hate?
- [05:15]
A
I loved that I got to work with different types of businesses and industries, different size companies. I loved really getting into the business ideas and connecting with different employees from different demographics. What I don't like is that it's the same problem over and over and over again. It's ineffective communication, it's uninformed decision making, it's lack of developing your people. It's very redundant. It's the same issue whether I've worked with a small startup business or a large enterprise business.
- [06:01]
B
It's the same thing that would I sometimes describe myself. It's like a frustrated HR person in disguise. But I'm actually not. Because if I had to deal with the same fucking problem every day in every company, like which you kind of do in a CEO or in a management job, like it is all the same things, right? Communication, urgency, equality of execution, development, leadership skill skills, people Skills all comes back to communication, really, at the end of the day. But I think that would be so frustrating because I think the other. I think the hardest thing about being an HR person is you have an. In some ways, you are getting the. You are the direct recipient of a lot of feedback. You are the direct deliverer of most bad news, and you are. You are having to exert your influence through other people. So it's the management of a message through another person. You hope they do it. You have to coach them to do it when they're trying to coach the next person. Like, it's a lot.
- [07:10]
A
It is a lot. And this is why I've created a show where I get fucking wasted on.
- [07:16]
B
It, which makes sense. I would too. I think that's so. It's so true. What do you think. What do you think strikes a chord about Drunk at work? Like, why are people. Most times when people find humor in something, there's anger in there somewhere. Like, what are people angry about? As it relates to work right now.
- [07:39]
A
I would say that companies are making decisions that are affecting their bottom line in such a way that they have to have these types of reductions in force. And I. And most people who seem to be a part of those reductions saw this coming a long time ago and probably tried to talk to leadership. And one of the things that are really. Is really important is a lot of decisions are being made at the leadership level, and they're not including the frontline employees who are closest to the product. They're closest to the customer. And so those people, the people who are being hurt the most, seem to be the people who had the most knowledge or had the most information to give. And that is probably causing a lot of anger. Yes, they saw it coming the whole time. Yeah, yeah.
- [08:42]
B
Yep, I agree with that. I think that makes sense. What do you wish people would do differently at work? Like, just having seen, you know, you see the comedy of it, you see the humor of it, you've obviously seen the HR piece of it. Like, if you had a wish for people to be more fulfilled, more productive, more engaged at work, more happier with their work environment, like, what. What is it that you think people need to do?
- [09:10]
A
They need to release, control a lot more, focus on delivering a really great work product. But this idea that you can control, like, what people think about you, that you can control all of the chaos, I would say just focus on what you can control and honestly let go of the rest of the things. Do good work. Don't get involved in certain conversations. That may change your perception about, you know, people in a way where your quality of work decreases. I would say just let go of this idea of controlling outcomes and controlling people and do the work that you need to do and be done with it. Whatever happens is probably not in your control and you just have to believe that there is like a bigger reason why things are happening or there's something better out there, but that something better is not going to come if you are delivering a work product that isn't great to begin with.
- [10:21]
B
Yeah, I think that's great advice. I think I try to give myself this advice because a lot of times I need it. But you can worry about everyone, everything else, what's going to possibly happen, how it's going to go, who's going to like it, who's not going to like it, who's going to be impacted, who's not, why, blah, blah, blah. And there's some of that, that's good and productive, where it's like planning, you know, like you're like scenario playing, which is, I think, helpful and valu. Valid and a good use of time. And then some of it's just worrying. And the worrying is just trying to have control. You know what I mean? You're just trying to like, anticipate and be able to manipulate whatever the situation is. And it's like it's gonna happen regardless. So just stop the energy on the worrying. And I think a lot of times if people, to your point, if you just focused on the prize at hand, which is like, complete the task today. Do it. Great. Do it maybe with a smile and say please and thank you. Like you're good to go.
- [11:22]
A
Yeah, I agree.
- [11:23]
B
Hmm. Okay, so tell people. Kat, where. Kat, are you in work like a girl? You are in work like a girl. Is that how I found you? I found you through work like a girl. Right?
- [11:33]
A
I am in there and I will tell you. You were supposed to come on the HR Sucks podcast earlier this year.
- [11:42]
B
Oh, really? I'm happy to come on the HR Sucks podcast.
- [11:45]
A
Well, I don't have it anymore. Now I'm drunk at work, so maybe it worked out the way it needed to.
- [11:49]
B
I'll come get drunk with you and talk about work. That'll be great.
- [11:52]
A
But I. So I bought your book. I pre ordered your book when you first launched it. I have this completely useless bar stools bag that I don't even know what to do with with a little note from you because I pre ordered your books. So that's how I found you.
- [12:11]
B
Funny I would have mailed that and created that myself. That's so awesome. Thank you for buying that book.
- [12:16]
A
Yeah, I. And then I reached out to you, I think on LinkedIn maybe we were having some conversations and then you started the Slack group and then I joined the Slack group and just, you know, started posting stupid shit on there and.
- [12:34]
B
It'S so weird, right? Isn't it funny?
- [12:36]
A
Yeah, the women are great. They're so awesome.
- [12:39]
B
They're crazy.
- [12:40]
A
It's like, honestly, it's like that Slack group is like chat GPT. Like it always tells me nice things about myself 100%.
- [12:49]
B
And it's like. Right. It's so responsive. It's like right there for you.
- [12:52]
A
And it has like sass and, and you know, sauce and like edginess to it where Chat GPT is just not.
- [13:01]
B
Do you have a name for your chat?
- [13:03]
A
Please cuss at me.
- [13:04]
B
It's true. It would be better if chatgpt. I bet you could prompt it to do that. But I love that about work. Like a girl. I think it's like a warm little hot tub of like funny ladies.
- [13:16]
A
I agree. I. And it's, it's your style, right? I think that it is resonant of like who you are and, and the personality that you put out there. So that's why I know it's okay for me to be a pervert and.
- [13:28]
B
It'S okay 100 highly inappropriate and 100%.
- [13:33]
A
Yeah, it's been great.
- [13:35]
B
Oh, I'm so glad. And then I just wish more HR people were like you.
- [13:42]
A
Well, I wish that too. Except I might be out of a job. So I don't know if that's smart for HR people to be. I mean I've. I've historically been inappropriate as an HR professional. I mean when I talk to. This is why I had to start my own business nine years ago because I curse and I say things and I give weird looks like when people, you know, like that. Yeah, exactly. So I wish that HR professionals were more comfortable being more human and understanding that, you know, they're in certain situations and they experience certain things. So I've never been afraid of that. But I did have to start my own business in order to do that. So.
- [14:32]
B
See, I think that's so interesting. Like I think there's a lot of inappropriate HR people but not for anything you're talking about. Like I think inappropriate HR people are narcissists and they are self important and they want, they gossip all the time. Like in my career, like the worst HR HR was Like a gossip central. Like, and they're too far fixated on everybody else's business or the psychology of what's wrong with them and how they got here. Like, I think that's so inappropriate for hr. Like, and I've worked between like Microsoft, aol, like I have worked with like the, a dearth of HR people and I think the swearing and the calling people out on their shit and also making fun of stuff that's stupid. And I don't have any issue with that. I actually think the right kind of company culture would like someone like you, you know what I mean? And honestly be better for some. I kind of think about myself sometimes going into companies the same way. Like when I got here it was like, people don't use the word fuck. And I'm like, I say fuck all the time. No.
- [15:51]
A
And you know, I used to have a saying about HR and it was, it's, it's probably more woo woo than my brand, but it was like, you can only be as good at HR as you are to the extent of which you're willing to heal. And I say this because you are absorbing all of these stories and complaints and grievances and all of these things and you have to have a high enough self awareness or consciousness to understand if you're triggered or if you have bias towards these certain situations. You have to understand that you are not there to give advice per se. You are there to help them work through it and be adults and you're there to help them spiritually grow as an adult and not get involved in the gossip. In fact, I would say even hold the gate on gossip and excuse yourself from certain conversations. And you know, and so I think that that is a misconception about HR is you are life coaches to a certain extent, which isn't fair. I don't think that that's fair necessarily for HR to have to do all those things and have all of these levels of all of these aspects of expertise and then get paid the way they do. Yeah.
- [17:16]
B
100. You don't get paid like a.
- [17:18]
A
Right. Yeah. So I don't think that's necessarily fair. But if it's a passion, if HR is a passion for you, you really do need to address your shit. You really do need to know what triggers you and how and the tools that you need when that happens. And when someone like you can't give marital advice like you shouldn't be giving advice.
- [17:38]
B
You have to understand your boundaries.
- [17:40]
A
Yeah. And, and, and if you've never been in a situation like, that you shouldn't be advising in a situation like that unless it's happened to you. And so I think that. I think that to me, like you said, I have like, all the characters of hr and it's like the Know it all that is probably the one that drives me nuts the most.
- [18:02]
B
Mm. The Know It All HR person.
- [18:05]
A
Yeah, it's like the person that wants to give advice to everyone about everything when they're. When they're not qualified to give that kind of advice, especially about personal situations. Like, well, you. You should do this or you should do that. I really try not, I think, try to just ask questions.
- [18:24]
B
Bad word. Yeah, no, I agree with that. I think that sometimes people forget that work is work and, like, you're here trying to help a person through work. And yes, what they come into work with matters and what they have going outside of work matters. But, like, when work tries to influence and control that, it's a disaster. I think. I think that's where, like, I don't know. I think people. I don't know. I actually have a different question for you, which is, how do you think people different ages respond to stuff? Like, I was just about to say, like, I think it's an overreach and kind of toxic for people in the workplace to have to opine on someone's life outside of the workplace. I sometimes think people younger at work think it's toxic for people in the workplace to opine on the workplace. But, like, I digress. But, like, how do you see that?
- [19:19]
A
I think that each generation is very different and they need to be approached in terms of what their values are. I don't believe in giving people advice about their personal life, but I do believe in providing tools to help them figure out what they need to decide for themselves.
- [19:41]
B
Yeah.
- [19:42]
A
And so with the younger generation, I love Gen Z. I know they get a bad rep.
- [19:47]
B
I'm all in on Gen Z. I.
- [19:49]
A
Even make fun of them myself. I have Gen Z people on my team. I like them because they ask very. Like they just will ask, why? Why? Why do I have to do this this way?
- [20:02]
B
Yeah.
- [20:03]
A
And it does challenge me to really ask myself, is there a better way to do this? Is this pointless? Is this just a task or a habit that I can. So I think with Gen Z, they do bring their personal life into work a lot more than maybe the millennials or above that. I'm okay with that. But I do think that I can't. I'm not their life coach either. Yeah.
- [20:31]
B
Yeah. 100.
- [20:33]
A
Yeah. So I'm like, here are the tools that you can. You can go use yourself is what we provide, and you can figure it out, I think. And I always tell them, you know the answer. It's. You have the answer. It's. I can't give it to you.
- [20:48]
B
Yeah. You just gotta figure it out and figure out what you're gonna do with it.
- [20:51]
A
Yeah. Stop doom scrolling and, like, spend some time with yourself thinking for contemplate. Try contemplating once in a while and you'll get there. The answer will get there.
- [21:00]
B
So I love that. Kat, thank you so much for doing this. Tell people how they find you and follow you or hire you.
- [21:08]
A
Well, they can find our show on YouTube. It is drunk at work. And as far as hiring goes, we're A lot of the conversations we're having right now are with brands who want to work with the show. So I would say that if you're open to me, you know, creating a comedy sketch, a mock ad or reenactment, and you're thinking that you need some more innovation in your marketing tools, we would probably be a great fit for you. And then as far as social media goes at catgazarian is pretty much my handle across the board. I think I'm the only one with that name still.
- [21:52]
B
That's amazing.
- [21:53]
A
Yeah. Yeah. But thank you for having me. I was like, I had my whiskey ready, so I'm like, I'm gonna go in a character. But then your questions were like, oh, professional.
- [22:05]
B
Well, we're gonna have you back as a character. Okay, let's do that. We'll have you back, and you just tell us who's here.
- [22:13]
A
Okay, I'll do that.
- [22:15]
B
Deal?
- [22:16]
A
Deal.
- [22:16]
B
Awesome. All right, have a great day. We appreciate you.
- [22:19]
A
Bye.