Summary of "Worklife with Adam Grant" - Episode: Canceling Cancel Culture with Loretta Ross

Episode Information

• Title: Canceling Cancel Culture with Loretta Ross
• Host: Adam Grant
• Guest: Loretta Ross, public intellectual, activist, and professor at Smith College
• Release Date: February 4, 2025

Introduction

In this compelling episode of "Worklife with Adam Grant," organizational psychologist and TED host Adam Grant engages in a deep and insightful conversation with Loretta Ross. Ross, a distinguished activist and professor, is renowned for her critique of cancel culture and her advocacy for more compassionate and effective methods of addressing wrongdoing and fostering change within individuals and communities.

Loretta Ross: From Callout Queen to Advocate of "Calling In"

Loretta Ross begins the discussion by describing her personal transformation from being a "callout queen" to advocating for "calling in" as a more constructive approach to conflict and accountability.

Loretta Ross (03:24): "I refer to myself as a reformed callout queen because I get pissed off a dozen times a day. I have a quick temper... But I always want to vent... I'm trying to tame that and teach myself that."

Ross emphasizes the exhausting nature of sustained anger and the importance of developing discipline in managing one's reactions. She draws inspiration from Mariame Kaba's notion that "hope is a discipline," likening it to the effort required to restrain immediate, visceral reactions.

Encounters with William Fuller and Floyd Cochran

Ross shares transformative experiences with individuals involved in hate movements, highlighting the potential for change and redemption.

William Fuller

At 25, Ross was the director of the DC Rape Crisis Center when she received a troubling letter from William Fuller, an inmate expressing a desire to change his life. Despite her initial feelings of disgust and outrage, Ross chose to engage with Fuller, leading to a profound realization about society's reluctance to listen to prisoners' experiences.

Loretta Ross (05:09): "I could have called her up and said, hey, what's going on with you... I'm deeply ashamed that I didn't stop, pause, and reflect like you say, rethink."

Floyd Cochran

Twenty years later, Ross worked with Floyd Cochran, a former Nazi spokesman who experienced a life-altering epiphany upon his son's birth with a cleft palate. This event led Cochran to question his affiliations and ultimately abandon his hate-filled path.

Loretta Ross (12:38): "Floyd's epiphany... was his wake-up call. I met Floyd... he was surprisingly intelligent and funny and self-critical after he finally woke up."

Ross acknowledges the challenges faced by individuals like Cochran, who, after dedicating their lives to hate groups, struggle to develop marketable skills and often lack the means to reintegrate into society.

The Futility of Shaming and Cancel Culture

A significant portion of the conversation delves into Ross's critique of cancel culture, emphasizing its ineffectiveness and the harm it inflicts.

Loretta Ross (19:13): "Shaming has never worked to correct a behavior... It tends to drive people away rather than engaging them."

Ross argues that cancel culture often targets the most vulnerable, exacerbating their struggles rather than fostering accountability. She draws a parallel between the tactics used by the prison industrial complex and those employed in cancel culture, criticizing the dehumanization it perpetuates.

Advocating for "Calling In"

Ross introduces and elaborates on the concept of "calling in" as an alternative to "calling out." This approach focuses on fostering understanding and offering support rather than public shaming.

Loretta Ross (25:07): "Calling in is about getting you to change your behavior to other people."

Steps to Effective "Calling In"

1. Pause and Reflect: Swallow immediate emotional reactions.
2. Self-Assessment: Evaluate one's own feelings and readiness to engage.
3. Choose the Response: Decide whether to call out, call in, or take another approach based on the situation.

Ross provides practical examples of how to implement this methodology, emphasizing the importance of tone, intention, and the preservation of the individual's dignity.

Loretta Ross (30:57): "If you're going to use the calling in technique... ask the question, why would you want to?"

The Power of Vulnerability and Storytelling

Ross discusses the strategic use of vulnerability and personal storytelling in the human rights movement. By sharing her own traumatic experiences, Ross builds trust and empowers others to open up, fostering a sense of shared humanity and resilience.

Loretta Ross (21:31): "When you want to organize people in the human rights movement, your vulnerability becomes your greatest asset."

Lightning Round: Quick Insights

In a rapid-fire segment, Grant and Ross exchange quick questions, revealing personal insights and philosophies.

• Worst Advice:

  Loretta Ross (36:16): "I can't remember any bad advice because I never follow bad advice."

• Best Advice:

  Loretta Ross (36:35): "You need to lighten up, because fighting Nazis should be fun."

• Question from Ross:

  Loretta Ross (37:17): "How do you keep your ego in check when you're so damn smart?"

  Adam Grant (37:40): "The true mark of a lifelong learner is knowing that you can learn something from every single person you meet."

Notable Quotes

• Loretta Ross (03:03): "The emotions are real. The question is, will you be trauma informed or trauma driven?"

• Loretta Ross (05:25): "I could have called her up and said, hey, what's going on with you... I'm deeply ashamed that I didn't stop, pause, and reflect like you say, rethink."

• Loretta Ross (19:13): "Shaming has never worked to correct a behavior... It tends to drive people away rather than engaging them."

• Loretta Ross (25:07): "Calling in is about getting you to change your behavior to other people."

• Adam Grant (38:43): "The true mark of a lifelong learner is knowing that you can learn something from every single person you meet."

Conclusion

Adam Grant's conversation with Loretta Ross offers a nuanced examination of how society handles wrongdoing and the potential for personal transformation. By advocating for "calling in" over "calling out," Ross provides a roadmap for fostering empathy, understanding, and genuine accountability. This episode serves as a valuable resource for anyone looking to enhance their work life and interpersonal relationships through more compassionate and effective communication strategies.