ReThinking: Ed Helms on growing through failure

Summary

Podcast Summary: Worklife with Adam Grant – "ReThinking: Ed Helms on Growing Through Failure"

Release Date: August 5, 2025

In this enlightening episode of Worklife with Adam Grant, Adam converses with the multifaceted actor and comedian Ed Helms about the profound role of failure in personal and professional growth. Drawing from Ed's extensive experience in stand-up comedy, his iconic role as Andy Bernard in The Office, and his venture into podcasting and authorship, the discussion delves deep into embracing setbacks as stepping stones to success.

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1. Introduction to Ed Helms and His Journey

Timestamp: [02:26]

Adam Grant introduces Ed Helms, highlighting his renowned portrayals of Andy Bernard on The Office and Stuart Price in The Hangover series. Additionally, Ed is recognized as the host of the narrative podcast Snafu, which explores history's most significant mistakes, and the author of his eponymous book. The conversation sets the stage for exploring how failure has been instrumental in Ed’s career trajectory.

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2. Embracing Failure in Show Business

Timestamp: [04:02] – [05:58]

Ed shares his early days in stand-up comedy, describing it as "punishment” that necessitates embracing failure to build resilience. He recounts moving to New York City post-college, immersing himself among passionate comedians where "strong bonds are forged in pain" through shared experiences of bombing on stage.

Notable Quote:

"Strong bonds are forged in pain. Right. And in shared experiences that are difficult." – Ed Helms [05:58]

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3. The Reality of Bombing on Stage

Timestamp: [06:16] – [09:34]

Ed narrates one of his most challenging moments performing at Governors, a renowned Long Island comedy club. Lacking sufficient material, his 30-minute set was plagued by hecklers, leading to a painful experience that felt "like physical pain."

Notable Quote:

"It feels like physical pain. It feels like a breakup." – Ed Helms [08:23]

He emphasizes the importance of low expectations when not fully prepared, allowing room to learn and grow without the pressure of established reputation.

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4. Finding Confidence Through Purpose and Community

Timestamp: [09:58] – [12:19]

Ed discusses that his perseverance wasn’t born out of confidence but from a strong belief in his purpose. Surrounding himself with a supportive community of fellow comedians who validated his aspirations provided the necessary encouragement to continue despite setbacks.

Notable Quote:

"Surround yourself with people who agree that what you want is awesome." – Ed Helms [10:17]

He reflects on his childhood in Atlanta, where unconventional career aspirations were met with skepticism, reinforcing the value of finding like-minded individuals who champion one another’s goals.

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5. Passion for Comedy and Initial Inspirations

Timestamp: [12:12] – [14:19]

Ed reveals his early passion for comedy sparked by watching Saturday Night Live at the age of eight or nine, particularly admiring Eddie Murphy's spontaneity and presence. This inspiration fueled his desire to pursue a career that allows for genuine fun and connection with the audience.

Notable Quote:

"He's so spontaneous. He’s so present. And I could tell... he's having fun. He's having so much fun. And I want that fun." – Ed Helms [12:30]

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6. Navigating Career Snafus and Lessons Learned

Timestamp: [16:44] – [22:12]

Transitioning to his time on The Office, Ed highlights the importance of cherishing "the mundane" moments, which later become the foundation of nostalgia. He contrasts mindfulness with flow, noting that while mindfulness involves awareness, flow is about being so absorbed in the moment that one loses self-consciousness.

Notable Quote:

"If you start to become aware, you start to evaluate and analyze, and you lose the moment." – Ed Helms [17:38]

Ed shares a pivotal snafu during the final seasons of The Office where creative differences with the writing staff led to challenges in maintaining the authenticity of his character, Andy Bernard. This experience underscored the necessity of pushing through uncertainties even when outcomes are not entirely within one's control.

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7. Fascinating Historical Snafus from Snafu

Timestamp: [18:51] – [21:51]

Ed discusses one of his favorite historical mistakes from his book, involving a 1950s Cold War plan to shoot a nuclear missile at the Moon. The project, intended to display American strength, was ultimately abandoned due to the inherent dangers and impracticalities, such as the risk of the missile returning to Earth.

Notable Quote:

"They decided not to do it. Thank God. That's like Wile E. Coyote." – Ed Helms [20:55]

He identifies common patterns in snafus, including groupthink, lack of diversity in decision-making, and the overpowering influence of fear as a motivator leading to poor judgments.

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8. Strategies for Bouncing Back from Failure

Timestamp: [30:38] – [33:32]

When addressing how to handle personal setbacks, Ed emphasizes the significance of cultivating the right environment and support system. He introduces his unique habit of recording video pep talks for himself, which serve as a form of self-distancing, allowing him to receive encouragement from an objective perspective.

Notable Quote:

"I'm right there. And I can literally check it. In those times." – Ed Helms [32:04]

Ed explains that these recordings help him reaffirm his place and purpose, especially after public failures, by providing a tangible reminder of self-worth and resilience.

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9. Fostering a Supportive Culture Around Failure

Timestamp: [30:23] – [31:18]

Ed advises listeners to focus not just on their own responses to failure but also on how they support others in their community when faced with setbacks. Creating a culture where failures are seen as learning opportunities rather than catastrophes can mitigate the fear associated with taking risks.

Notable Quote:

"The right people failure just won't feel so catastrophic." – Ed Helms [31:11]

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10. Concluding Thoughts and Personal Reflections

Timestamp: [33:37] – [34:04]

As the conversation winds down, Ed reflects on the importance of being affectionate and supportive toward oneself. He humorously acknowledges his limitations in acting out his own pep talks but underscores the value of self-encouragement in overcoming failures.

Notable Quote:

"Just be affectionate to yourself." – Ed Helms [33:37]

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Key Takeaways

• Embrace Failure as Learning: Failure is an integral part of growth, especially in fields that demand creativity and resilience like comedy and acting.

• Supportive Communities Matter: Surrounding oneself with like-minded, supportive individuals can provide the necessary encouragement to persevere through setbacks.

• Self-Encouragement Techniques: Innovative methods like recording pep talks can aid in maintaining self-belief during challenging times.

• Cultural Attitudes Towards Failure: Creating environments that view failure as a stepping stone rather than a setback can foster innovation and personal development.

• Mindfulness vs. Flow: Understanding the difference between being mindful and being in flow can help individuals appreciate and maximize their experiences.

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Final Thoughts

Ed Helms’ candid discussion on handling failure offers valuable insights into building resilience and fostering supportive environments. His unique perspectives, drawn from personal experiences in the competitive realms of comedy and television, provide actionable strategies for anyone looking to grow through their own setbacks.

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Follow Adam Grant:

• Instagram: @adamgrant
• LinkedIn: @adammgrant

Produced in partnership with Transmitter Media.

Transcript

[Elise Hu]

Hi TED Podcast listeners. It's Elise Hu here from TED Talks Daily. Thanks for making our podcast part of your routine. We really appreciate it and we want to make your favorite TED podcasts even better. We put together a quick survey and we'd love to hear from you. It only takes a few minutes, but it helps us shape our shows and get to know you, our listeners, way better. Head to the episode description to find the link. Thank you again for listening and for taking the time to help our shows.

[Ed Helms]

Out here we feel things the sore calves that lead to epic views, the cool waterfall mist during a hot hike.

[Elise Hu]

And the breeze that hits just right at the summit.

[Ed Helms]

But hey, don't just listen to us. Experience it for yourself.

[Elise Hu]

Alltrails makes it easy to discover the.

[Ed Helms]

Best of the outdoors with more than 450,000 trails around the world, points of interest along the trail, and offline maps for always on navigation. Download the free app today and find your next outdoor adventure.

[Adam Grant]

This episode is sponsored by IBM. Is your AI built for everyone or is it built to work with the tools your business relies on? IBM's AI agents are tailored to your business and can easily integrate with the tools you're already using so they can work across your business, not just some parts of it. Get started with AI [e-mail], the AI built for business IBM. This episode is sponsored by Gab. We know that social media plays a role in today's youth mental health crisis. Teens now spend an average of 9 hours a day on screens outside of school. That's essentially a full time job. But there's good news. There's a company called Gab that's tackling the problem by doing something different. They're introducing tech in steps. Gab's kidsafe phones and watches are designed specifically for growing kids, starting with GPS enabled watches for younger children and evolving into phones with more features for tweens and teens, all with strong parental controls. Bottom line, you don't have to hand your kid a device made for an adult. Give them Gab so they can stay connected safely with school starting soon. Help your kids focus on learning by giving them a kid's Safe phone. Visit gab.com worklife and use code worklife for a special offer. That's G A-B.com worklife so Ed, I'm.

[Ed Helms]

So excited that you're here. You're basically the most popular character in my class. We analyze a lot of office videos.

Oh wow. Like how not to run a business.

[Adam Grant]

Yes, yes.

[Ed Helms]

And how not to interview for a Job and how not to pretend to help your coworkers. There's a long list of Andy Bernard offenses.

Oh, that's so funny. Well, I am not Andy Bernard. I mean, I play Andy Bernard, but I'm a different person. I hope I can convince you of that today.

[Adam Grant]

Hey, everyone, it's Adam Grant. Welcome back to Rethinking my podcast on the science of what makes us tick with the TED Audio Collective. I'm an organizational psychologist, and I'm taking you inside the minds of fascinating people to. To explore new thoughts and new ways of thinking.

[Ed Helms]

My guest today is Ed Helms.

[Adam Grant]

He's probably best known for playing Andy Bernard on the Office and Stuart Price in the Hangover movie series. He's also the host of the narrative podcast Snafu, which covers history's greatest screw ups. And he's the author of a new book by the same title. I invited Ed to the Authors at Wharton series to talk about overcoming failure, lessons from his time on the Office and what we can learn from some of the most astounding mistakes in history.

[Ed Helms]

We know you for your successes, but I can only imagine your life was full of failures for you to be so into.

[Adam Grant]

Snafus never failed.

[Ed Helms]

Next question. Reporters ask crazy questions, and some of them are, like, incredibly invasive. And I've just started being like, pass. Well, it's fun because the reporter, especially if they've kind of crossed a line or asked something, like, really invasive, they're like, instantly chastened because there's. It's like no one realizes you can do that. You can just pass on a question. Pass. And then the reporter's like, oh, oh, okay. Next question. So anyway, that's my new trick, and I also recommend it in job interviews. Yeah, it's a total power move. Someone's like, tell me about yourself. Pass. And the boss is like, wow, that took a lot of guts. But no, to answer your question, where do I start with my own snafus? Show business is just a festival of failure, truly. And then I started in stand up comedy, which is just punishment, truly. In order to get anywhere with standup comedy, you really have to learn to love bombing and love failing and sort of see it as, like, just building your calluses, you know, building your toughness as a performer. I was very lucky. I moved to New York City race right out of college, and I found a cohort of people who were also super passionate about comedy. And there was this kind of funny hierarchy, almost like a college, like, class. As freshmen, you come in and you're wide Eyed and terrified. And what you learn from the older kids is that love of bombing because you're getting off after a terrible set or someone heckled you and got the best of you, and you come off stage and you're mortified and they're high fiving you.

[Adam Grant]

Congratulations, you sucked.

[Ed Helms]

Yeah. No. Truly strong bonds are forged in pain. Right. And in shared experiences that are difficult. And there are obviously so many horrible examples of that throughout history. But comedy clubs is a. Is a fascinating little microcosm of that too.

Okay, so I want to talk about building those calluses first. Tell us about the worst stand up bomb you ever had.

Okay, so there are so many, but probably one of the biggest ones, there's this big comedy club out on Long island in Levittown called Governors. And that was like Jerry Seinfeld came up through there and some big. A lot of big comedians routinely played there. It was a huge room and they packed people in and it was like a very different vibe. It's very Long Island. It's very different than New York City. So I got my. One of my first opportunities to. To middle there, which means, like, to do the 30 minute set before the headliner. I'd never done a 30 minute set, and I didn't really have 30 minutes of, like, reliable material. Anyway, I get up there, right out of the gate, I'm struggling, and somebody starts to heckle me. And I just threw back the lamest response, like, who's this guy? A brain surgeon? And there's like a big laugh around him. And this buddy's like, he is a brain surgeon. He's literally a brain surgeon. And at that point, like, I lost. I just lost. The crowd won.

Neurosurgeons are the worst hecklers of all the surgeons. I'm told by my cousin who's a neurosurgeon. What goes through your mind? What do you feel coming off stage having just flopped that badly?

Well, like I was saying, you kind of try to train yourself to love bombing and to sort of value that experience, but there are times where it's undeniably brutal and undeniably painful. And especially in a situation like that where I'm the outsider, I'm the visitor, and I have not established any credibility in this space. It's devastating. It's the physical feeling of it that's so hard. Like, it just. It's pain. It feels like physical pain.

It sounds like, I mean, like a breakup, almost like you're getting rejected in the same way as if someone dumped you.

I think there's something to that. Yeah. I'll tell you one more quickly, which was a bigger scale, which was after I got onto the Daily Show, I suddenly had so many more opportunities as a comedian, and now I'm like Ed Helms from the Daily Show. So my booker manager was like, I got you. You're gonna headline Mohegan sun, which is a huge casino in Connecticut. And I get up there and I'm doing an hour set, and I have a brutal night. I'm so anxious on stage, it's coming across as a terrible night. Then I had three or four more nights to go at this booking. Mohegan sun puts a newspaper out under everyone's door, like a little, like Mohegan sun newspaper. And someone had reviewed my show in this newspaper that went under everybody's door in the morning, like Ed Helms from the Daily show had a hard night in the comedy room. And just this, like, you know, deconstruction of my failure. Anyway, lots of stuff like that.

When are those low expectations helpful, though?

Both of those instances, I didn't feel prepared. But when you feel like you've done the legwork and the homework and the preparation and you've put in the hours and no one knows who you are and, you know, you've got killer jokes in the chamber, like, ready to fire, that's. Yeah, that's when it's an advantage to not be known.

So talk to us about the process of getting there, because I think a lot of people would crash and burn like you did and say, forget it. I'm done. I get that this could be a growth experience, but I'm not confident that I can get good enough at this, that it's worth the pain. Where did that confidence come from?

It wasn't confidence. It was just a belief that I was doing the thing that I was, like, put here to do weirdly. And so that sort of allowed me to punch through some really difficult times. And again, I really could rely on the community. I always tell people that are like, how do you get into comedy? Like, how do you forge. How do you break into these spaces? Or any kind of showbiz thing, which I think, to a lot of people who want to be in show business, feel feels insurmountable or terrifying. I always just say, like, start by finding your cohort. Surround yourself with people who agree that what you want is awesome. Because otherwise, especially if your aspirations are a little bit out there or unusual or the thing you want to do is not widely considered to be, like, a great career. Move. You're going to get so much resistance. And it's just friction. It's not even necessarily people telling you you're making a bad choice. It's those little things like, oh, that's what you want to do. But when you're surrounded by. When I was with my comedian friends, it was like there was no question we were all sort of doing the right thing. And that is so galvanizing and such an important way to find support.

So it sounds like you're talking about people sort of mildly judging your career.

Path or just trying telling you you're an idiot, especially. I grew up in Atlanta, Georgia. Nobody knew a comedian. Nobody knew an actor. And so I kept all of my aspirations totally internal as a kid because I knew that I would just get laughed at or eye rolls or kind of like, good luck, buddy. And that stuff is awful.

When did you know that this was what you wanted to do?

Early. Eight. Eight or nine years old.

Wow.

Yeah.

What was it that it was.

It was Saturday Night Live, which is. I think a lot of comedians answer, but I didn't understand it.

But.

But I just loved the energy of it. There was something about that live show with, like, the audience. And Eddie Murphy was on at the time, when I was a kid, and I loved him. He was like everything I wanted to be. He was so spontaneous. He was so present. And I could tell. I looked. You know what it was? I looked at him and I was like, he's having fun. He's having so much fun. And I want that fun.

Okay, so this is an interesting contrast with where your career then went. So let me just. I feel like a disclaimer is needed here. So. I once made the mistake of doing a cameo on a TV show called Billions, and it was the most boring day of my life.

Oh, yeah.

Like seven and a half hours of retaking a two and a half minute scene.

Yeah.

And you're on take 23, and you're.

[Adam Grant]

Like, I don't even think even the.

[Ed Helms]

Director can see a difference at this point. Like, we could have shot the whole season in. The time you're wasting, you don't have any of the audience energy. You don't have any sense of, like, I'm growing. I'm connecting with other people. I'm producing entertainment. Like, they're gonna see it months later.

Yeah.

How in the world does somebody who, like, got such a rush out of doing standup comedy want.

[Adam Grant]

Like, how could you ever want to be in a TV show or movie?

[Ed Helms]

I'm usually asking directors for more takes. Cause I just love to explore and think about like, is this as funny as it can be? Is there another bit of like top spin I can put on this or a little bit of like a side angle? And I'm constantly changing my takes, take to take. I see like endless novelty in it.

Wow.

And that is like a, that is such a thrill. But I do, I try to bring that like, pursuit of comedic perfection, which is completely unattainable. But that is, that's the fun.

[Adam Grant]

This episode is sponsored by IBM. Is your AI built for everyone or is it built to work with your business's data? IBM helps you integrate and govern unstructured data wherever it lives so your business can have more accurate AI instead of just more of it. Get your Data Ready for [e-mail] the AI Built for Business IBM this episode is sponsored by Udemy. If you've ever felt like the pace of change at work is outpacing your skills, you're not alone. In today's world, capabilities matter more than credentials, and staying competitive means constantly evolving. That's where Udemy comes in. Udemy is an AI powered reskilling platform designed for the modern workforce. Whether you're trying to level up in your current role or lead a team that's adapting to change, Udemy helps you build real world skills that make a difference from AI and data science to communication and leadership. One of the themes we revisit on this show is how people thrive at work. Insight isn't enough, you need tools to act on it, and Udemy can help you gain the skills you need to turn your ideas into action. It's practical, it's flexible, and it's built around your goals. Visit udemy.com that's U-E-M-Y.com to explore plans for people and businesses and subscribe free for seven days. This episode is sponsored by Shipstation. When it comes to customer loyalty, delivery matters. A smooth on time shipping experience can be the difference between a one time buyer and a repeat customer. That's why successful E commerce businesses rely on Shipstation. It brings all your orders into one simple dashboard no matter where you sell. So you can automate repetitive tasks, reduce shipping errors and stay focused on what matters most, keeping your customers happy. Shipstation scales with your business and helps you lead with efficiency from syncing sales channels to automating traffic emails with your branding. It's designed to help you build trust one package at a time. And with up to 88% of UPS, DHL Express and USPS rates and up to 90% off FedEx. It's the fastest, most affordable way to ship. Smarter. When shoppers choose to buy your products, turn them into loyal customers with cheaper, faster, and better shipping. Go to shipstation.com and use code worklife to sign up for your free trial. There's no credit card or contract required, and you can cancel anytime. That's shipstation.com code worklife.

[Ed Helms]

Okay, so let's talk a little bit about the Office.

[Adam Grant]

Sure.

[Ed Helms]

What were your biggest lessons from being on the greatest show of its time?

This is a little bit of a cheesy answer, but I was so proud to, given the line in the very last episode of the series. I wish there was some way to know you're in the good old days while you're actually in them. And I just got chills saying that because I did know, working on that show, that I was in something so special. Those are the good old days. It's like the lesson is to just, like, love the mundane if you're in a good place. Like, cherish the mundane, because that's where nostalgia is built. It's not built in the big moments. It's built in the small moments.

I was reading some research on this recently about how mindfulness is the opposite of flow.

Interesting.

Where when you're in a mindful state, you're fully aware of the situation, and when you're in a flow state, you're so deeply absorbed that you're not attuned to the fact that you're enjoying it.

Yeah.

And I think by definition. Right. If you start to become aware, you start to evaluate and analyze, and you lose the moment.

Yeah.

Maybe that's not a bad thing.

No, I think that's a beautiful thing. And they're both. They both have tremendous value.

Okay, so was there. Was there a big snafu on the Office?

So many snafus. I don't think this is necessarily a snafu in the grand sense, but it was just sort of a snafu of my experience, which was we all sort of had this fun feedback loop with the writing staff. Somewhere in those last couple seasons, I started to hit a couple of speed bumps where I was like, I don't understand the behavior that you're writing for Andy, and I don't understand the choices Andy's making. And I really struggled to kind of, like, push through that. But it was a good lesson in sort of, like, it isn't always exactly what you want. Like, even something great can. You just have to push through.

I do remember an arc where Andy got weird.

Yeah.

I'm like, yeah, okay, you felt that, too. Good. Okay, so let's talk about some snafus that you've been fascinated by and that did not embarrass you or affect your life or career in any way. What's your favorite snafu from the book?

There's one that stands out because it is so crazy. And. And that is in the 1950s, the Cold War was getting very intense, and the United States really wanted to flex nuclear muscle. There was very much an arms race with nuclear development. And so someone hatched the idea, let's shoot the moon with a nuclear missile. And the logic was, everyone can see the moon. So if we hit it with a nuclear missile, it'll just be this like, yeah, check this out. Soviet Union. And look what we did to the Moon. We can do that to you, too. And a lot of time and money and resources went into this. Carl Sagan worked on this, and he loves planets. Right. But he was right out of grad school. This is a true story. He was very young, and he worked on this. And the only reason this whole thing was uncovered is because one of Carl Sagan's biographers found a fellowship application that he had filled out at the time, and he had put this project on the fellowship application. And they were like, okay, I'm going to table my Carl Sagan research and go into this for a minute. And they eventually realized that this is a terrible idea, because any miscalculation or malfunction of the rocket could very easily miss the moon, be slingshotted around the gravitational field of the moon and just come right back to Earth. And they decided not to do it. Thank God. That's like Wile E. Coyote.

I can't believe that happened.

Yes, it's crazy.

I'm curious about the bigger lessons that you've learned from three seasons of the podcast, from writing the book about how to prevent a snafu or how to clean one up. For me, the most obvious lesson is, so often these things happen because groups polarize and then fall victim to groupthink, and they get overconfident and they don't have enough dissent, and they don't question themselves, and they end up on a path that they shouldn't be on.

Absolutely.

Surely there's more to them than that. What else have you found to be common patterns?

That's the biggest one, what you just said, the enclosed bubble of groupthink. And also, I think especially when you get back into the 50s and 60s, there are clearly no women involved in some of these decisions. And that of course contributes to like a very siloed set of values and opinions. And I think.

Are you suggesting that women are smarter than men?

Ed no, I'm stating that as a fact. But yeah, that also the sort of power of fear, both as a motivator to action and a motivator to often terrible judgment, sometimes amazing judgment.

[Adam Grant]

This show is sponsored by Range Rover Sport. It's not just what you say, it's how you say it. To truly make an impact, you need to set an example, take the lead and adapt to whatever comes your way. And when you're that driven, you drive an equally determined vehicle, the Range Rover Sport. Blending power, poise and performance. Like you, it was designed to make an impact. The vehicle combines dynamic sporting personality, elegance and agility to deliver a truly instinctive drive defining true modern luxury. It includes the latest innovations in comfort and convenience with features like the cabin air purification system alongside active noise cancellation for all new levels of quality, comfort and control. A force inside and out. The Range Rover Sport was created with a choice of powerful engines, including a plug in hybrid with an estimated range of 53 miles. Build your Range Rover Sport at range rover.com ussport this episode is sponsored by OpenPhone. If you're running a business, every missed call is money left on the table. Think about it. When you needed urgent help, did you wait on someone to respond or just move on to the next option? Exactly. That's where OpenPhone comes in. It's the number one business phone system that works on your phone or computer. No need to carry two devices. You can share one number with your team, collaborate on texts and calls like a shared inbox, and keep every conversation moving in after hours. Their AI agent handles calls, answers questions and captures leads. OpenPhone helps you stay connected so customers never feel ignored. Over 60,000 businesses already trust it. OpenPhone is offering listeners 20% off your first six [e-mail] worklife. That's O P E N P H O N E.com worklife and if you have existing numbers with another service, OpenPhone will port them over at no extra charge. Open Phone no missed calls. No miss customers. This episode is sponsored by Framer. There are a lot of website builders that claim to be flexible but end up boxing you into rigid templates or requiring more coding than they promised. Framer is different. Framer is the design first, no code website builder that lets anyone ship a production ready site in minutes. And I mean actually production ready. Whether you start from one of 700 templates or a blank canvas. Your building something original without writing a line of code. The built in AI is surprisingly helpful. It can generate layout ideas, translate your content, even recommend brand colors. And if you're working as a team, you'll appreciate the real time collaboration. No file chaos or version mixups. And behind the scenes, it's fast and powerful. Edge hosting, responsive design, SEO and privacy. First analytics without cookie banners Ready to build a site that looks hand coded without hiring a developer? Start free [e-mail] go to Framer.com to start building a site for free. Framer.com.

[Ed Helms]

Okay, we have some more audience questions that we haven't covered yet.

Heck yeah.

Okay, we'll do some of these Lightning Style, Rapid Fire if Andy Bernard had a spinoff show, what would it be called and what would he be doing now?

It'd be called Andy Time and he would be the Dean of Admissions at Cornell or No, he would not be the Dean of Admissions. He would be like a staffer in.

The admissions office aspiring to one day.

Aspiring Dean. Yeah.

Who do you identify with more, Andy Bernard or Stuart Price?

Andy for sure. Yeah. I mean, they're both departures from me, but there's a lot of me in both. But I think Andy is a guy with very few tools to deal with the feelings that I have. Like, I relate to some of the thoughts and feelings and internal battles that Andy has, but I like to think I have a little bit better set of tools and I have a higher emotional intelligence than Andy, but I relate to some of his expressions of insecurity, for sure. Wow.

What's your favorite Office episode?

This will probably surprise no one, but Dinner Party is. It was some of the hardest laughs I've ever had. Was shooting that episode.

Favorite scene.

My favorite moment is when Steve is showing us how his flat screen TV is adjustable and it moves 2 inches. And he's so proud of that. And we must have done 500 takes of that because none of us could get through it. It just was so dumb and so funny.

Love it. Okay. Did you actually do acapella in college?

Yes. I was in the Oberlin Ober Tones for two semesters and I learned something very valuable, which I think is a sort of fundamental truth of the universe, which is that acapella music is unbelievably fun to do and very painful to endure or watch or consume.

Okay, this one I thought was highly amusing. The question is, do you have it written into your acting contracts that you have to sing at least Once per performance?

No, it's not in any of my contracts and I just force it in there and it's not welcome most of the time. I get a lot of pushback and I don't give a fuck. I'm going to sing and you can use it or not.

Was there a moment in your career when you thought, yep, I've made it, or has that never really happened?

I don't know. There are definitely moments of celebration, you know, like in a production like the Office or the Hangover movies. Like, there are these kind of built in moments of celebration. You have premieres, you have these kind of big events that, that feel kind of like milestones. And I think there are some heady moments during some of those times where you feel like, this is. This is incredible, I feel, but it's very fleeting. And in show business, no one's stock is really permanent in any way. So I think, I don't know, there's kind of this beautiful constant pursuit.

Okay, how do you deal with people expecting you to be funny all the time?

I am funny all the time. I just be funny all the time. No, different moments have different expectations. And I try to surround myself with people who know me and appreciate in terms of, like, my friends and family. They know that I can be a really serious, boring dude, and that's okay.

How do you think about what success means at this point in your career?

This is super cheesy, but I think of it now as I have kids, and I think of it as like, how is this something that I can be proud of as a parent? Like, and my kids will. Can be proud of and look at as they get older, you know, see me putting my heart into things that have value. And by the way, value is measured in a thousand different ways. But it's something I don't. It's like, you know it in your gut if it's worthwhile and all the markers of success, the money or the adulation, and certainly in show business, fame is a big success sort of metric. They start to lose meaning at a certain point because they don't make you a better dad. They don't make you a better brother or family member or friend, and those are the things that matter.

Why is that cheesy?

Because it's about feelings. And I was raised in the south and we don't talk about feelings.

Okay, so, Ed, we've got a lot of people here who I think are afraid to fail. We've been talking this whole conversation about the value of failure. What would Your advice be about how to confront the next snafu that we all face.

Going back to what I was talking about earlier about finding your people, part of that is, how are you reacting to your peers failures? What culture are you helping to build around you? It's not necessarily like, how do I handle my own failures? It's like, what sort of soup am I swimming in and contributing to? Like, is this a yummy vegetable soup and I'm like a delicious carrot? Or is this am I just like a gross cockroach that got thrown into this soup? And because the right people failure just won't feel so catastrophic, is there a.

Surprising takeaway that you've picked up when it comes to then bouncing back from your snafus?

It's habits. I have a weird one. A lot of self help. And pop psychology talks about the power of affirmations, right? Like saying nice things to yourself in the mirror and so forth. And I made this is crazy. I've never told anybody this. I made a video of myself on my phone giving myself a pep talk. And I have a couple of them for different situations, like specific moments, moments of difficulty. I'll go to those. Some of them are for like, if I feel like I failed in some social context, some of them are in a more professional context. And I swear it helps a lot. Seeing myself like myself is pretty damn good.

Wow.

It's a pretty nice thing.

I've never heard of this application before, but psychologists would call that self distancing to hear from a version of you that isn't caught up in the current failure.

Yes, that's exactly what it is.

I've never seen someone record a video of themself giving the pep talk to myself. Yeah, that's amazing. So what's your favorite one? What does it say?

It says, it basically starts out like, all right, Ed, cue the cheesy background music. Here we go. And I put some inspirational music behind it. As a person in show business with a high profile, I'm constantly putting myself out there and I'm constantly exposing myself to judgment. And sometimes that's hard. Sometimes I'll ruminate afterward, after a moment, after an interview or an appearance of some sort, and be like, I can't believe I said that. I can't. We all do that. That's so normal. And I'm there for me, like in my phone. I'm right there. And I can literally check it. In those times. I also will sometimes watch it going into a thing before the thing, where it's like, hey, you belong. You're where you're supposed to be. That's amazing. And it's like, basically tricking yourself, but sometimes that's what you need.

Or you're not tricking yourself and you're getting the version of yourself that's currently being tricked by wallowing in your despair out of that situation.

I like that take. That's exactly right.

Well, I would record one of these myself, but I can't act, so I don't know how to record it.

Just be affectionate to yourself.

Too many feelings. But I appreciate the encouragement. So just by a little applause, how many of you are going to record your own pep talks tonight?

Oh, wow. All right. We're starting something here. This is a revolution.

Well, you came to the right place to debut it. There are a lot of people who need a pep talk right now.

All right.

Also a laugh. And, Ed, we're so grateful that you were willing to come and provide both of those things to us today. Thank you.

Thanks so much for having me.

Rethinking is hosted by me, Adam Grant.

[Adam Grant]

The show is produced by Ted with Cosmic Standard. Our producer is Jessica Glaser. Our editor is Alejandra Salazar. Our engineer is Asia Pilar Simpson. Our technical director is Jacob Winick. And our fact checker is Paul Durbin. Our team includes Eliza Smith, Roxanne Hylash, Ban Chang, Julia Dickerson, Tansika Sung Manivong, and Whitney Pennington Rogers. Original music by Hans Dale Su and Alison Layton Brown.

[Ed Helms]

I worked on this little movie that my friend directed about a zombie who was trying to, like, enter the dating pool. There's, like, me sitting in a cafe waiting for my blind date to show up. It's very. It's sad. It's, like, moving. But it's so silly to, like, treat a zombie as this, like, poignant guy struggling through, not life, death.

Never felt so much zombie empathy before.

Yeah, exactly that. Which is the point.

[Paige]

Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast, too. Ah, really? Thanks, Capital One Bank Guy. What's in your wallet? Term supply. See capitalone.com bank Capital One NA Member FDIC this episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies, try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

[Ed Helms]

This is Paige, the co host of Giggly Squad. I use Uber Eats for everything and I feel like people forget that you can truly order anything, especially living in New York City. It's why I love it. You can get Chinese food at any time of night, but it's not just for food. I order from CVS all the time. I'm always ordering from the grocery store. It a friend stops over I have to order champagne. I also have this thing that whenever I travel, if I'm ever in a hotel room, I never feel like I'm missing something because I'll just Uber Eats it. The amount of times I've had to Uber eats hair items like hairspray, deodorant, you name it, I've ordered it On Uber Eats. You can get grocery alcohol everyday essentials in addition to restaurants and food you love. So in other words, get almost every anything with Uber Eats. Order now for alcohol. You must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details.