WorkLife with Adam Grant: ReThinking — Facing Your Fears with Cliff Diver Molly Carlson

Podcast Host: Adam Grant (TED)
Guest: Molly Carlson (Canadian high diving champion, mental health advocate, founder of Brave Gang)
Date: September 9, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Adam Grant sits down with Molly Carlson, a world-class Canadian cliff diver and outspoken mental health advocate, to explore how individuals can confront their fears, develop self-compassion, and redefine bravery. Their conversation journeys through the physics and psychology of high diving, Molly’s personal battle with anxiety and body image, her leadership in online mental health support, and practical advice for managing risk both in and out of sport.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Physical and Mental Challenge of High Diving

• Molly describes the sheer speed and impact of high diving: jumping from 20 meters, she hits the water at up to 80 km/h (50 mph), encountering serious physical risks.

  • Quote (Molly, 04:14): “As soon as you hit in the wrong angle, it could be a trip to the hospital... you need to just be physically and mentally prepared for all the outcomes. And we're much more calculated than people think we are.”

• The mental demands are immense; even accomplished divers like Adam are in awe of cliff divers’ bravery.

2. First Encounters with Fear (07:06–08:30)

• Molly recalls her first high dive—an “endless” sensation in the air, followed by the realization of the imminent impact.

  • Quote (Molly, 08:06): “Time stopped. I was like, this is the coolest opportunity ever. And I was like, oh, but I have to brace for impact.”

• The addictive nature of facing down fear and challenging herself keeps her coming back.

3. Breaking Barriers: The First Standing Quad Half Pike (09:00–11:50)

• Molly discusses being the first woman in the world to perform a standing quad half pike off 20 meters, particularly under tough competition conditions.

  • She had to execute it without a run-up—a huge leap of faith.
  • Quote (Molly, 10:39): “I got 2 tens from the judges... how on earth did I make this hard, dive harder and do it better than I ever have?”

• The experience was so intense she was physically ill before and after, but the sense of accomplishment was unparalleled.

4. Managing Fear and Mental Blocks (12:01–15:32, 23:59–28:04)

• Molly shares her strategy of “positive gaslighting” to counteract self-doubt when doing something no woman has done before.

  • Quote (Molly, 13:31): “If that's what gets you off that cliff, gaslight it up, girl. Because you gotta tell yourself whatever you have to tell yourself to be able to do these things.”

• Respecting fear is essential for safety. She describes mental tricks to “move fear to the side”—acknowledge it, but don’t let it consume you.

  • Quote (Molly, 23:59): “Fear can absolutely be there. It should be there in your sport. But I’m gonna put you just right here so that I can give my full attention to doing the best and safest dive that I can.”

• Techniques include exposure (just sitting at the top of the platform), rhythmic breathing, and muscle memory to gain control over the mind-body connection.

5. Resilience After Setbacks: Mental Health, Body Image, and Redefining Bravery (15:39–19:23, 30:12–36:31)

• Molly candidly discusses her struggles with eating disorders, body image, and anxiety in a judged sport where small bodies are prized.

  • Recounts a coach’s devastating comment: “I did have a situation where a coach did tell me at 15 that I was too fat to ever go to the Olympics.” (30:22)

• Missing the Olympic team brought unexpected relief, giving her space to seek help and begin recovery.

• The why behind her diving transformed: “I Never want another 16 year old girl to feel alone in her mental health journey.”

• Online, her vulnerability sparked the formation of Brave Gang, a community for people to share their acts of bravery—big and small—and support each other.

  • Quote (Molly, 18:14): “It was so just a positive environment. When I started sharing online, you know, this is what I do, people were freaking out... The most common caption or comment that I saw was the word brave.”

6. Handling Social Media and Public Scrutiny

• Molly faces negative comments and scrutiny about her physique but now responds with humor and resilience.

  • Quote (Molly, 35:13): “If you have cellulite, everyone can see that. And this haunted me for years. My genetics are cellulite everywhere. And like now I love it. I'm like, hell, yeah. I jump off cliffs with cellulite. Like, you can't do what I do, literally.”

• She emphasizes boundary-setting to protect her own mental health amidst an outpouring of messages from followers.

7. The Power and Reciprocity of Community (Brave Gang)

• Brave Gang is a source of confidence and support for Molly as much as her followers.
  • Quote (Molly, 39:12): “Brave Gang... has literally given me so much confidence to do what I do again... But they don't know that by creating this community, they're helping me feel my bravest.”

8. Lightning Round (41:18–43:02)

• Dream dinner guests: Tom Daly and Greg Louganis.
• Worst advice about fear: “Get rid of it. Fear should not be there.”
• Favorite tip: Be kind to yourself. You're allowed to fail.
• Hot take: All bodies can go to the Olympics.
• Recent change of mind: Mental training is just as important as physical training.
• Question for Adam: Why do divers chase fear? Adam’s take: seeking growth by overcoming obstacles, not fear for its own sake.

9. Childhood Aspirations and the Joy of Flying (43:10–43:48)

• As a child, Molly “wanted to soar.” Diving is, for her, a return to that childhood sense of freedom and self-affirmation.
  • Quote (Molly, 43:10): “I wanted to do something so cool and jump off something so high and feel proud of myself... That feeling of freedom and just me in the air. No toxic thoughts, no worries about what other people think.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Those three seconds I get in the air are the most silent my brain is ever. And it's so crazy that I have to jump off a cliff to get this silence because I crave that.”
  — Molly Carlson (02:12)

• On positive self-talk before hard dives:
  — “You end up being almost gaslighting yourself. I'm so ready for this. You can do this. You've trained for this girl... so much extra positivity, because you need to... convince yourself to jump.” (12:20)

• On community:
  — “If I can be that small difference where people feel loved in who they are and respected for all the bodies that they bring, all the energy that they bring, then I want to be that person.” (17:52)

• Adam on facing fear:
  — “I guess I've come to believe that the best antidote to anxiety is action.” (26:12)

Key Timestamps

• 02:12 — Molly on the “silence” of cliff diving
• 04:14–05:20 — Physical dangers and body’s adaptation to impact
• 07:06–08:30 — First experience of high-diving fear
• 09:00–11:50 — Breaking barriers with quad half pike
• 15:39–19:23 — The deeper “why”: mental health, toxic sports culture, and community
• 23:59–25:32 — Mental strategies for managing and respecting fear
• 30:12–36:31 — Olympics setback, coach’s comments, and journey through eating disorders and body positivity
• 39:12 — Brave Gang as a reciprocal source of support
• 41:22–43:02 — Lightning round: advice, opinions, and inspiration
• 43:10–43:48 — Childhood dreams and rediscovering the joy of soaring

Takeaways and Reflections

• Bravery is not the absence of fear, but the choice to act in spite of it—often by “positive gaslighting” yourself into courage when your brain wants to hold you back.
• Facing fears—no matter the context—is aided by rituals, repeated exposure, and compassion toward yourself.
• Community support, vulnerability, and sharing struggles can be as powerful as any technical skill in overcoming personal adversity.
• Redefining “success” beyond medals or external approval allows for true self-discovery, healing, and impact on others.

For listeners seeking practical insight on facing fears, building resilience, or fostering self-compassion and brave communities, this episode is both inspiration and toolkit—with deeply personal honesty and actionable wisdom from both host and guest.