Podcast Summary: WorkLife with Adam Grant

Episode: "ReThinking: Raising a New Generation of Readers with Shannon Hale"

Release Date: December 23, 2025
Host: Adam Grant (with co-hosting/guest appearances from Ted and Joanna)
Guest: Shannon Hale, award-winning author of children's books and graphic novels

Episode Overview

This episode centers on the challenges and opportunities of fostering a lasting love of reading in children and teenagers. Adam Grant is joined by acclaimed author Shannon Hale, as well as his daughter Joanna and recurring contributor Ted, to discuss the role of books in young people’s lives, the power of inclusive storytelling, why reading for pleasure is declining, and how both parents and educators can help reverse the trend. The conversation weaves in themes of gender, empathy, book banning, school curriculum, and the vital importance of letting kids choose what they read.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Origin Story of Shannon Hale’s Motivation

• Shannon’s daughter sparked her awareness of the limitations society and media place on girls and princesses.
  • ["For her, a princess wasn't about a royal title...A princess was, you know, a girl. Plus, in fact, one time when she was even littler, she asked me, 'Mama, do you want to see me turn into a princess?'...And it was like the Hulk transforming...I realized, okay, her concept of a princess is just a girl coming into her full power. So if you limit what a princess can do, you're limiting what a girl can do." — Shannon Hale, 02:02]

2. The Power of Stories and Rejection in Publishing

• Hale describes her decades-long journey to publication, overcoming numerous rejection letters.
  • ["And I still get rejected. To be clear, I've published 50 books...And just for like two, two years…it was literally mailing in manuscripts and then getting letters in the mail saying 'no, no, no.'...I laminated them into a long roll that I could unroll at school visits and show kids—this is what rejection looked like before I ever got an acceptance." — Shannon Hale, 06:24]

3. The Decline in Reading Among Youth and Adults

• Reading for pleasure has drastically diminished among Americans, a trend mirrored in decreased parental reading to young children.
  • ["Looking at recent stats, 16% of Americans do regular leisure reading, which is down from 28% in 2003...only 41% of parents read daily to their toddlers, down from 64% in 2012." — Ted, 10:28]

4. How to Nurture a New Generation of Readers

• Shannon urges parents to embrace libraries and to let kids have autonomy over their reading choices.
  • ["My number one piece of advice for parents is utilize your library...getting your kid their own library card as soon as they're old enough and putting the choice in their hands is a way to help them take control of their own reading life." — Shannon Hale, 10:58]
  • Validation of all forms of reading—including graphic novels and audiobooks—combats shame around “not real” reading.
  • ["All reading is reading…Instead of like shaming kids into having to care about Moby Dick. You're still a reader if you don't like Moby Dick. Most adults don't like Moby Dick. Let's just be honest." — Shannon Hale, 08:51]

5. School Reading Curriculums: The Perils of the “Classics”

• Many adolescents fall out of love with reading in high school due to rigid classic-only curriculums.
  • ["All of the things we were assigned in high school had no genre...all tragedies and books written mostly, almost entirely by men and by men who are now dead...I literally fell out of love with reading for several years when I was in college." — Shannon Hale, 12:30]
  • Assigning only pre-approved, “safe” books often stifles both student interest and teacher autonomy, a situation exacerbated by fearful parents and book banning.
  • ["The book banning, of course, is just…completely out of control...A book is a safe way to engage with mature concepts. It's a compassionate way to engage with mature concepts, and it actually protects kids..." — Shannon Hale, 14:37]

6. Empowering Teens and Building Critical Thinking

• Encouraging student agency through book choice and classroom debate fosters true engagement and critical thought.
  • ["I love when you empower teens to be able to say, 'This is terrible.' You should be able to say that. That's part of the problem with teaching the classics, I think, because they're already sainted and it doesn't give the reader room to come and say, but wait a minute, is this actually great?" — Shannon Hale, 20:41]
  • Purpose of English class should be:
    • Engagement with the human experience through story
    • Development of critical thinking skills, not rote memorization of “great works”

7. Gender Biases in Reading and Empathy

• Books about girls are typically read only by girls, reflecting and perpetuating broader social hierarchies.
  • ["I started to hear the same thing over and over again from teachers, which was when I told the class that we were going to read a book called Princess Academy, the girls went, 'yay.' And the boys went, 'boo.' And then after we read it, the boys liked it as much or even more than the girls did." — Shannon Hale, 23:09]
  • Boys are subtly discouraged from reading stories about girls, which stunts their empathetic development.
  • ["What we're really communicating is, girls, you are expected...to learn to have empathy and understanding for boys as well as girls. Boys, you are only expected to have empathy for boys...there's something shameful about having empathy for girls." — Shannon Hale, 23:09]
  • Notable classroom impact: Joanna shares that even today, her curriculum still leans toward male-driven stories.

8. Book Banning and the Power of Representation

• Book banning disproportionately targets stories by and about women, LGBTQ individuals, and people of color.
  • ["The majority of books that are challenged and banned are written by women and about female characters, are written and about LGBTQ characters, and are written by and about authors and characters of color...There is a movement by some people to try to limit who their kids learn to empathize with." — Shannon Hale, 29:39]
  • Books uniquely foster deep empathy because they require the reader to inhabit another’s perspective.
  • ["When you read a book, you...feel like you are them...I wonder if that's part of why both the empathy can be more powerful and also people are a little bit afraid of it." — Ted and Adam Grant, 32:15 & 32:27]

9. Writing as Self-Discovery and Resilience

• Shannon emphasizes that both reading and writing are about connection, resilience, and self-exploration.
  • ["Because we're speaking about memoir, I would recommend everyone keep a journal. You'll never be sorry that you kept a journal...Make bad art is one of the best things I think you can tell anybody." — Shannon Hale, 38:33]
  • On rejection: ["While I'm waiting to find the right time for that, I'm writing something else." — Shannon Hale, 08:24]
  • Advice for aspiring writers: Find joy in the process, write for fun, and don’t be afraid to create “bad art” as part of growth.

Notable Quotes & Standout Moments

• On the purpose of reading:
  • "Stories don't tell us how to be. They give us a deep and empathetic way to get inside of a character and live a different life. And that kind of experience cannot be duplicated in any other way." — Shannon Hale (21:07)
• On book banning and representation:
  • "There is a movement by some people to try to limit who their kids learn to empathize with...When you can control the narrative, when you can control who gets to have stories told about them...That has a real effect in our actual society." — Shannon Hale (29:39)
• On making reading inclusive:
  • "All reading is reading. Audiobooks are reading, reading fan fiction on your phone is reading, validating all forms of reading." — Shannon Hale (08:51)
• On critical thinking in literature:
  • "The purpose [of English class] is critical thinking and engaging with stories in order to learn critical thinking." — Shannon Hale (20:41)
• On the gendered experience of readers:
  • "Boys are only expected to have empathy for boys. And in fact, there's something shameful about having empathy for girls." — Shannon Hale (23:09)
• On process and resilience for writers:
  • "Make bad art is one of the best things I think you can tell anybody." — Shannon Hale (38:33)
• On shifting perspectives:
  • "As the older I get, the more I can't see anything in a binary. And everything is a spectrum. And the beauty of that and the freedom of that and the love of that has been something that I continually rediscover all the time." — Shannon Hale (45:22)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Shannon’s “superhero origin story” & redefining princesses: 02:02–03:18
• The role of rejection in writing and resilience: 06:15–08:25
• Declining rates of leisure reading: 10:25–10:48
• How to nurture new readers and library stories: 10:58–12:30
• Student commentary on the limits of school reading lists: 11:56–13:45
• Reading as empathy exercise and gendered narratives: 23:08–27:33
• Book banning and whose stories get told: 29:39–31:36
• Lightning Round (“worst writing advice”, “dream dinner guests”, “hot takes”): 43:40–45:49
• Shannon’s advice for aspiring writers: 38:33
• Closing connection and reflection on author-reader relationships: 46:23

Memorable Personal Moments

• Shannon shares her children refuse to read her new graphic novel—even for a bribe. (47:37)
• Joanna expresses her deep personal connection with Shannon’s books: "You've been a very big part of my life, even if you didn't know it." (46:10)

Tone and Delivery

The episode is warm, candid, honest, and reflective—blending playfulness with serious considerations about education, design of stories, and the psychology of empathy and inclusion. The rapport between Adam, Ted, Joanna, and Shannon feels familial and inviting while the discussion remains purposeful and thought-provoking.

Takeaways

• Empower children and teens to explore their own reading interests—there’s no “wrong” way to read.
• The stories we validate, ban, or assign—especially in formative years—teach children not just about literature, but about empathy, identity, and power.
• Teachers and librarians are essential allies in nurturing inclusive, lifelong readers. Parents should support and trust their guidance.
• Aspiring writers and readers alike thrive when joy and self-compassion are at the heart of their creative process.