WorkLife with Adam Grant – Episode Summary

Episode: ReThinking: What Being a Lawyer Taught John Grisham About Writing Novels

Date: October 14, 2025
Host: Adam Grant (TED)
Guest: John Grisham
Main Theme:
An intimate, revealing conversation with bestselling author John Grisham about how his legal career shaped his approach to writing, creativity, and discipline; the enduring role of fear and doubt in professional life; and how his work on death penalty cases transformed his views and activism.

Episode Overview

Adam Grant interviews John Grisham, celebrated legal thriller author, on the surprising ways his years as a small-town lawyer shaped his writing process, narrative discipline, and worldview. The episode explores Grisham’s development of strict creative routines, his pragmatic and moral perspectives on justice, and his journey from a conservative upbringing to activism against the death penalty.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Lawyer Behind the Novelist

Early Law Career and Its Lessons

• Grisham reflects humorously on expectations:
  “I had pictured you as really cerebral and serious and I was completely unprepared for how hilarious you are.”
  — Interviewer (02:06)
• He shares how humor, even in tense legal situations, was both a survival tool and a passion that rarely made it to his published work due to editorial cuts (02:20).

First Trial Experience

• Recounts his rookie trial – unprepared, terrified, and physically ill under pressure, but finds his courage and wins an acquittal (03:50-06:56).
  • “I had this really strong urge just to go out the hallway and start running and keep running and not to come back...But I managed to pull things together and grit my teeth and go back in there.” — John Grisham (05:44; 07:32)

2. Making the Leap to Writing

Transitioning from Law to Novels

• The thrill of courtroom victories inspired his writing, particularly A Time to Kill.
• The financial strain and diminishing sense of reward from small-town law pushed him toward full-time writing (09:23-10:34).
  • “To have the freedom or to dream of doing nothing but writing books, that was just a huge dream that became all consuming.” — John Grisham (11:13)

3. Writing Routine & Process

Strict Creative Discipline

• Maintains a rigid daily routine:
  • Writes every morning 7-11am, no distractions, same desk, same rituals (11:28).
  • Story ideas are carefully developed, outlined, and tested for endurance before writing begins.
  • “By the time I start writing, I’ve got a pretty strong outline...If you know where you’re going, it’s very hard to get lost.” — John Grisham (13:33-15:21)

Routine vs. Creativity

• Grant questions whether such discipline stifles imagination (12:55).
• Grisham explains that careful planning saves time, prevents dead-ends, and still allows for creative surprises during the writing process (13:33-15:35).

Swooper vs. Basher Writing Styles

• Grisham is a “basher,” perfecting each sentence before moving on; revises daily, avoids wasteful first drafts (23:35).
• Cautions against writing multiple stories at once:
  • “I’ve heard people say try to write two or three stories at the same time and I think that’s bad advice. I can’t do that.” (30:55)

4. Facing Doubt & Maintaining Standards

• Despite 50+ bestsellers, still struggles with fear of failure, especially during uncertain drafts:
  • “My big fear in life is I’m going to write a book and my wife is not going to like it at all.” (18:14-19:46)
  • Sees self-doubt as essential to growth and quality:
    • “The fear and doubt should always be there with whatever you’re doing...the self-reflection is very important in psychology.” (20:01)

Avoiding Overconfidence

• Recognizes personal limits, values feedback, and strives to remain on an even keel, avoiding both paralysis and overconfidence (21:22).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Stage Fright in Law:
  “The moment came for my final summation...and I had nothing to say...judge said, ‘do you need to go vomit?’ And I did.”
  — John Grisham (04:30-05:30)
• On Perseverance:
  “You can’t just leave the courtroom and leave your client. I had a duty to my client at that point.”
  — John Grisham (07:32)
• On Writing Success
  “I didn’t start off 40 years ago with the dream or goal of writing 50 books...I’m still very thankful I get to do that and create these stories that people enjoy.”
  — John Grisham (11:28)
• On Drafts:
  “When I finish a book, it’s pretty clean. I’ve corrected a lot of the mistakes. I see it, it still needs a good edit...but I’ve never been able to just plow through a rough draft real fast.”
  — John Grisham (23:35-25:20)

5. Lightning Round & Personalities

Dream Dinner Guests:

• Mark Twain, Jackie Robinson, Howard Cosell (30:27-30:49)

Question for Adam Grant:

• Asks about Grant’s card trick skills, humorously recalling their time in Tuscany (31:09-31:33).

6. Rethinking the Death Penalty

Change of Heart & Advocacy

• Grisham describes a transformative moment with a Mississippi death row chaplain, leading to a profound shift from support to opposition (31:52-34:21).
  • “Do you think Jesus would approve of what we do here?...There was no way to say yes.” (32:51-34:16)
• Now actively involved with the Innocence Project; highlights prevalence of wrongful convictions and the moral/pragmatic cases against capital punishment.
  • “We can all agree that killing is wrong. So why do we allow the state to kill?” (40:12)

Systemic Flaws & Hopeful Trends

• Notes that courageous jurors, not lawmakers, are reducing executions by exercising more empathy and skepticism in capital cases (38:19-40:07).
• Worries about possible reversals given shifts in political support.

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Topic | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------|-------------| | Grisham’s humor in writing | 02:20 | | First trial terror and perseverance | 03:50-08:05 | | Drive to write and writing discipline | 09:25-13:33 | | Outlining vs. improvising | 13:33-15:35 | | Fear and doubt in writing/law | 18:14-21:22 | | Swooper vs. basher writing styles | 23:09-25:20 | | Lightning round (dinner guests, advice, fun) | 30:23-31:09 | | Changing views on the death penalty | 31:52-36:50 | | Advocating for the Innocence Project | 35:27-36:34 | | Policy, cultural change, and the future | 37:52-40:12 | | Grisham’s moral case against executions | 40:12-40:29 |

Memorable Moments

• Judge Andy Baker saving Grisham from public meltdown in the courtroom (05:30)
• Grisham’s deep respect for his wife and editor, trusting their opinions about endings (18:14)
• Honest confession of lingering self-doubt despite phenomenal success (20:01)
• Mark Twain as a dream dinner guest (30:27)
• The chaplain’s fateful question reframing Grisham’s entire moral stance (32:51-34:21)

Conclusion

This episode offers a candid exploration of the grit, discipline, and humility behind John Grisham’s prolific writing. Through revealing stories from his days as a lawyer and hard-fought lessons as an author, listeners gain insights into the complex interplay between confidence and doubt, discipline and creativity, and personal conviction and social change. Whether discussing writing routines or his evolving stance on the death penalty, Grisham’s remarks are practical, reflective, and, at times, deeply moving.