WorkLife: The secrets of a great apology

Summary

Episode Summary: "The Secrets of a Great Apology"

Podcast: Worklife with Adam Grant
Host: Adam Grant
Episode Release Date: May 27, 2025
Produced by: TED in partnership with Transmitter Media

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Introduction to the Importance of Apologies

In this insightful episode of Worklife with Adam Grant, organizational psychologist Adam Grant delves deep into the art and science of apologies. Recognizing that we spend a significant portion of our lives at work, Grant emphasizes the crucial role that effective apologies play in maintaining healthy professional relationships and fostering trust within organizations.

The Dynamics of Apologies in Early Education

Grant opens the discussion with real-world examples from Kath Konicke, a seasoned pre-K teacher from Brooklyn. Kath illustrates common pitfalls in children's apologies, such as the "drive-by apology," where a child hurriedly says sorry without genuine remorse or understanding of the hurt caused.

Kath Konicke [04:06]: "I always call it a drive-by apology where they're like, do something to another child. They like step on their finger or knock over their building and they're like already on their way, their hand is kind of flapping behind them. They're like, sorry. And then they're gone."

Kath's experiences underscore that even at a young age, the depth and sincerity of an apology can vary significantly, setting the stage for how individuals handle apologies later in life.

Academic Insights on Apologies

To further enrich the conversation, Grant consults Beth Polan, a management professor at Eastern Kentucky University and an expert on apologies. Beth breaks down the components of a truly effective apology, introducing the concept of the "Five Rs."

The Five Rs of a Great Apology

1. Regret [12:47]: Expressing genuine remorse for the wrongdoing.

   Adam Grant: "The first R is regret. You're showing remorse for your past behavior."

2. Rationale [12:55]: Providing an explanation for why the mistake occurred.

   Adam Grant: "The second R is rationale. You're explaining why it happened."

3. Responsibility [14:04]: Taking ownership of the mistake without deflecting blame.

   Beth Polan: "Acknowledgment of responsibility is extremely important."

4. Repentance [15:34]: Demonstrating a commitment to change and avoid future errors.

   Adam Grant: "The third R is responsibility... the last R is for repair."

5. Repair [16:11]: Taking actionable steps to restore trust and mend the relationship.

   Beth Polan: "So the last R is for repair, taking action to restore trust."

Beth emphasizes that while all five components are essential, responsibility stands out as the most critical element of an effective apology.

Adam Grant [16:48]: "I was just going to ask you that question. So my bet is on responsibility as number one."

The Power and Pitfalls of Apologizing in the Workplace

Grant and Beth explore why, despite the effectiveness of apologies, many individuals hesitate to apologize. They discuss how offering a sincere apology can sometimes be perceived as admitting personal deficiency, creating a psychological barrier.

Adam Grant [11:06]: "So if apologies are so effective and so low cost, why does it seem like many people don't apologize? I think about all the people who refuse to apologize. It seems like they do feel there's a Cost."

They also highlight common ineffective apologies, such as placing blame or making excuses, which can exacerbate the situation rather than mend it.

Case Study: Formula One's Approach to Apologies and Repair

To illustrate the practical application of effective apologies and subsequent repair, Grant introduces a compelling case study from the high-stakes world of Formula One racing. Mark Gallagher, an executive with extensive experience in F1, recounts a pivotal moment during the 2016 Monte Carlo race involving driver Daniel Ricciardo.

The 2016 Monte Carlo Debacle

During a crucial pit stop, Ricciardo's team experienced a series of miscommunications that led to a delayed tire change, costing him the race victory. The subsequent apology from the team was deemed insufficient, highlighting the need for a more profound approach to repair the fractured trust.

Adam Grant [31:09]: "But sorry wasn't enough."

Strategies for Effective Repair

Mark Gallagher outlines three key steps that F1 teams implement to repair trust and prevent future mishaps:

1. Over-Deliver: Exceeding expectations to demonstrate genuine care and integrity.

   Adam Grant: "The first is to over deliver. Evidence shows that after customers make a complaint, their satisfaction and loyalty depend on how they're treated by service providers."

2. Change: Modifying policies and practices to address the root causes of the mistake.

   Mark Gallagher [32:23]: "So the fact finding process there is getting all the key stakeholders literally around the table."

3. Increase Accountability and Autonomy: Empowering individuals to take responsibility while granting them the autonomy to rectify issues.

   Mark Gallagher [36:14]: "So Frank promoted him. He made him head of steering systems because he said, that guy will never, ever let another Williams car out of the garage without the perfect steering on it because he will never, ever want a repeat of that."

These strategies not only address the immediate fallout but also contribute to a culture of continuous improvement and accountability within the team.

Prevention Through Pre-Mortems

Beyond reactive measures, Grant discusses proactive strategies like pre-mortems, which involve anticipating potential failures before they occur. This foresight allows teams to implement safeguards and mitigate risks effectively.

Adam Grant [34:38]: "You don't even have to wait for a postmortem to debrief yesterday's errors. You can run a pre mortem to prevent tomorrow's errors."

Cultivating a Culture of Psychological Safety

Echoing insights from Amy Edmondson's work, the episode underscores the importance of creating environments where individuals feel safe to admit mistakes without fear of blame or retribution. Such cultures encourage open dialogue, learning from errors, and meaningful repair of trust.

Adam Grant [37:42]: "Blaming and shaming doesn't stop people from making mistakes. It stops them from admitting mistakes."

Conclusion: Transforming Apologies into Opportunities for Growth

Worklife with Adam Grant concludes by reinforcing that apologies are not mere formalities but pivotal moments for personal and organizational growth. By embracing the Five Rs and committing to genuine repair, individuals and teams can transform setbacks into opportunities to strengthen trust and collaboration.

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Key Takeaways

• Sincerity Over Words: The depth of an apology lies more in taking responsibility and committing to change than in the number of times "sorry" is uttered.

• Action Matters: Effective apologies are followed by concrete actions aimed at repairing and restoring trust.

• Cultural Impact: Fostering a culture of psychological safety enables more honest and productive interactions, minimizing fear around admitting mistakes.

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This episode provides both a theoretical framework and practical examples of how apologies, when executed thoughtfully, can significantly enhance workplace relationships and overall organizational health.

Transcript

[Adam Grant]

Hi TED Podcast listeners.

[Elise Hu]

It's Elise Hu here from TED Talks Daily. Thanks for making our podcast part of your routine. We really appreciate it and we want.

[Adam Grant]

To make your favorite TED podcasts even better. We put together a quick survey and.

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It only takes a few minutes, but.

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It helps us shape our shows and get to know you, our listeners, way better.

[Adam Grant]

Head to the episode description to find the link.

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Thank you again for listening and for taking the time to help our shows.

[Adam Grant]

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[Adam Grant]

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[Kath Konicke]

Some children feel a lot of shame. When they make a mistake and don't want to apologize, they run away. I had a child this year who would every time he hurt somebody, he would run into the corner and hide.

[Adam Grant]

Kath Konicke has been a pre K teacher for more than a decade. She currently teaches in Brooklyn, where a huge part of her job is helping kids learn to make amends you know.

[Kath Konicke]

There'S so much conflict that happens in a pre K classroom. So it really is out of necessity, I would say, and many, many opportunities.

[Adam Grant]

To work with children on apologies, especially in block worlds.

[Kath Konicke]

So we have these kind of big foam blocks in the gym and children build like really elaborate structures out of them. You know, we were studying bread recently, so there were lots of pastry shops.

[Adam Grant]

Getting built and in one corner, a grand opening.

[Kath Konicke]

You know, these two children had been working so, so, so hard to build a bread shop and they finally got it done. They were selling pretend croissants. They're really delicious.

[Adam Grant]

But then disaster.

[Kath Konicke]

Another child came running around the side, just completely knocked into the structure like it all collapsed.

[Adam Grant]

The bread shop owners were devastated. Hours of hard work gone. The culprit looked back at his path.

[Kath Konicke]

Of destruction and like saw the children who were building's reactions. It was clear they were incensed and did a sorry and kept running around the gym and, you know, we had to bring him back.

[Adam Grant]

Kath sees this kind of apology all the time. She even has a name for it.

[Kath Konicke]

I always call it a drive by apology where they're like, do something to another child. They like step on their finger or knock over their building and they're like already on their way, their hand is kind of flapping behind them. They're like, sorry. And then they're gone. And it's not, you know, about repairing, it's not about the other child. It's just kind of like a rote response.

[Adam Grant]

This isn't just an issue in block world or pre K Bad apologies are a big problem for adults at work and beyond. To maintain relationships and restore trust, we need to know how to repair things when we make mistakes and how to prevent them from happening in the future. I'm Adam Grant and this is Work Life, my podcast with Ted. I'm an organizational psychologist. I study how to make work not suck. In this show, we explore how to unlock the potential in people and workplaces today. How to apologize and recover from mistakes. This episode is sponsored by Rula. As an organizational psychologist, I've studied how mental health affects performance, relationships and overall well being. But even knowing how important therapy is, I've seen how hard it can be to actually access it. That's why I think services like Rula matter. They connect you with licensed in network therapists quickly, often in less than 24 hours. And with most people paying around $15 a session with insurance, Rula is making quality care more accessible than ever. Join the thousands who have already turned to Rula for support on their journey to better mental health and well being. Getting started is easy. Just visit rula.com adam today. When you sign up, they'll ask how you heard about them. Please support our show by letting them know we sent you. Go to r u l a.comadamnow and connect with a licensed therapist who truly cares. Your mental health matters.

[Elise Hu]

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[Adam Grant]

This episode is sponsored by Earn In. In those moments where money isn't moving as fast as your dreams are, Earn in provides the financial momentum you need to keep moving forward. Earn in is an app that gives you access to your pay as you work. Any money you access is automatically repaid from your next paycheck. Download earnin today spelled E A R N I N in the Google Play or Apple App Store. When you download the Earn in app, type in Work Life with Adam Grant under Podcast when you sign up. Work Life with Adam Grant under Podcast. Earn in is a financial technology company, not a bank. Cashouts are based on your available earnings. Standard cashouts take one to two business days with no mandatory fees option to expedite your transfer for a fee. Tips are voluntary and don't affect the service. See the Cashout User Agreement for details. Service is not available in all states. In Cath's classroom, preschoolers come in with all Kinds of ideas around apologies. The drive by apology is just one type of sorry that pops up.

[Kath Konicke]

They're really often stuck on the word sorry. So I'll have two children come up to me and one is really upset, like maybe crying. And the other child kind of like stress yelling at me, like, but I said sorry.

[Elise Hu]

You know, I said sorry, sir.

[Kath Konicke]

And children also, at the start of the school year, they'll do something to another child and kind of ignore it. And then as soon as the other child starts walking towards an adult, there'll be like a sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

[Adam Grant]

That's the mad dash apology.

[Kath Konicke]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, nevermind. Just stay.

[Adam Grant]

Kids treat sorry like a magic word. But the truth is that sorry alone isn't enough.

[Kath Konicke]

Yeah. And so, you know, we do a lot at this of the school year to move kids away from those kinds of apologies.

[Elise Hu]

We tend to think that just saying the simple words I'm sorry constitutes an effective apology. And actually it doesn't.

[Adam Grant]

Beth Polan is a management professor at Eastern Kentucky University. She's an expert on apologies, which is handy because our conversation started with one from me.

[Elise Hu]

My sound recorder is recording too.

[Adam Grant]

Well, Beth, I am very sorry that I'm late.

[Elise Hu]

That is okay. I will forgive you. We'll talk about what constitutes a really good apology though.

[Adam Grant]

Beth studies apologies in the context of trust, which underlies all our relationships.

[Elise Hu]

We have to understand trust to be a risk taking behavior. If we think about what it is, it's a psychological state where we actually accept vulnerability. We believe that someone is going to treat us well. We believe that someone is going to follow through on their promises. And so we engage in that risk and we ultimately trust them.

[Adam Grant]

Trust is vital to our work and our well being and so is repairing it when we mess up. Research shows that refusing to apologize altogether is often a sign of narcissism. And a bad apology can disrupt a project, sideline a career, even undermine a whole company. A good apology can do the opposite.

[Elise Hu]

Apologies are really effective and they don't cost very much. They, they signal that the apologizer realizes there's this social requirement after a trust violation that some statement needs to be offered. And it's an opportunity for the apologizer to show some emotion and show effort towards repairing the relationship so that we can move forward together in the workplace.

[Adam Grant]

So if apologies are so effective and so low cost, why does it seem like many people don't apologize? Recognize that. I think about all the people who refuse to apologize. It seems like they do feel there's a Cost.

[Elise Hu]

So, first of all, I'm going to actually disagree with you a little bit and say I think people do offer apologies more often than we think, except they're bad apologies. So there is a cost. Like you said, by speaking up and admitting wrongdoing, we're showing some deficiency in ourselves. So you're right. There is a psychological cost to apologizing. People don't realize just how effective apologies can be. And for people who do offer apologies, there are some really crappy apologies out there.

[Adam Grant]

It's often said that a bad apology is a second insult. You've probably heard CEOs make that mistake. Like at BP after their oil spill disaster in 2010. The CEO did apologize for the massive disruption, but then he said, there's no one who wants this thing over more than I do. You know, I'd like my life back. This obviously did not go over well. One journalist called it the crisis PR soundbite from hell. And it did nothing to restore trust in BP or in that CEO who was fired. So what makes for an effective apology? In her research, Beth's studied how people react to different aspects of apologies. Let's break down five key components. Think of them as the five Rs. The first R is regret. You're showing remorse for your past behavior.

[Elise Hu]

Like you're truly sorry. You truly apologize for the wrongdoing that occurred, and you're sincere and authentic in that I'm sorry.

[Adam Grant]

The second R is rationale. You're explaining why it happened.

[Elise Hu]

We really do care about why a trust violation occurred. And what's so important about why the trust violation occurred is that this gives us information about how we can go about repairing the trust that was broken.

[Adam Grant]

Anecdotally, I often find that giving an explanation backfires, that people take it as an excuse, and it comes across as defensive. I know specific people that I've tried to apologize to and then explain. Well, here's. Here's what I was thinking. They're like, I don't want to know. I don't want to hear your excuses. I just want to see you change.

[Elise Hu]

I think what you're speaking to is an internal versus external attribution. So, for example, let's say I'm late to work and I come running in the door and I say, I'm so sorry. I was late. I woke up on time. My alarm went off on time. I was in the car on time, but it was the traffic's fault that I'm late. That's an external attribution. And even if it really was the traffic's fault. We would actually respond better to an apology that said something like, I'm so sorry I'm late. Traffic was really bad. I should have checked the traffic patterns before I left my house.

[Adam Grant]

This leads to the third R responsibility. You're saying this is on me?

[Elise Hu]

We really care about someone taking ownership for the damage that was done.

[Adam Grant]

I think that saying I'm sorry without admitting responsibility feels like an empty statement. It does, because it sends the message that this is not on me to fix or change.

[Elise Hu]

Correct. And going along with that, we've all received that apology that says, I'm sorry you feel that way.

[Adam Grant]

I was just thinking that.

[Elise Hu]

Which is really not an apology.

[Adam Grant]

Research shows that when leaders take personal responsibility for negative events, they're viewed more favorably and their company's stock prices go up the following year. It's not just because they're showing that they care. Responsibility also signals that they're in control. Blaming others can send a mixed message. Are you capable of cleaning up this mess or not? By taking responsibility, leaders make it clear that they have the power to fix the situation. A good example is Mary Barra, the CEO of General Motors who handled a crisis over a faulty switch. She didn't ask for her life back. She hired outsiders to investigate what happened and set up a fund for victims. And she was named crisis manager of the year. Mary once explained her guiding principles to me.

[Elise Hu]

We're going to do everything possible for the customer. We're going to be transparent and we're going to make sure we do everything in our power to make sure this never happens again.

[Adam Grant]

That brings us to the fourth R repentance promising to do better.

[Elise Hu]

So a few years ago, my then four year old daughter, I told her, I said, please do not wake up your baby brother from his nap. And I walked out of the room for just a second. I come back 60 seconds later, probably the baby is awake and my daughter, I look around for and she's standing in the corner and she said, mama, I am so sorry, this will not happen again. Because I put myself in the corner and I am thinking about what I did wrong. And that was a great declaration of repentance she had there.

[Adam Grant]

At four years old, the last R is for repair, taking action to restore trust.

[Elise Hu]

We want to try and make up for the wrongdoing that was done. So while the apology as a whole might be future focused on repairing the relationship, that offer of repair looks backwards at the trust violation and seeks to repair damage that was done.

[Adam Grant]

In her research, Beth found That the most effective apologies include all five Rs, regrets, rationale, responsibility, repentance, and repair. But some elements are more important than others.

[Elise Hu]

Do you have any guesses as to the most important?

[Adam Grant]

I was just going to ask you that question. So my. My bet is on responsibility as number one.

[Elise Hu]

Yep, you're right. Acknowledgement of responsibility is extremely important. Interestingly, if we only include three components in an apology, the acknowledgement of responsibility needs to be one of those three. Also, the explanation and the offer of repair are ranked very highly.

[Adam Grant]

Let that sink in. The word sorry isn't the most critical part of an apology. It's not even in the top three. What matters most is that you take responsibility for what went wrong, give a rationale for why it happened, and commit to acting to repair trust. Which brings us to what Beth views as a sixth R, a record quest for forgiveness.

[Elise Hu]

Trust repair is. It's a bilateral process. It takes two people. I can offer you the best, most effective apology ever, but it's still your choice if you want to accept that apology and you have to engage in the trust repair process with me for us to be able to move forward.

[Adam Grant]

I want to fight you on this one.

[Elise Hu]

Okay.

[Adam Grant]

Because I think when someone asks for forgiveness, it sounds self centered. Like at least it's the way it comes across to me. Like when someone says to me, will you forgive me or do you forgive me? What I hear them saying is, I'm shifting my attention from the fact that I wronged you to the fact that I want you to absolve me of blame. And to me, it undercuts the apology.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. Instead of thinking of it as self centered, think of it as an invitation. Right. You're welcoming the other person in to the trust repair process. And it still is their choice. Because people can choose to not engage in the trust repair process. Right. We've all heard, you know, I forgive you, but we still need to go our separate ways. Right. So you get that forgiveness, but you do not get the full relationship repair.

[Adam Grant]

Let me actually try this. Let me see if I can pull this out here. Beth, I'm terribly sorry that I was late. I went to the dentist. I did not budget enough time to race back here, which is all on me. And I take full responsibility for that. The next time we do a podcast together, I will make sure it happens before I go to the dentist, not after. And I have a bunch of ways that I can make this up to you. I can't manufacture time, but I'm happy to let you go 10 minutes early. I'll come up with other ways to repair. So there. What I don't want to say is, beth, will you please forgive me? I can't. I can't function without knowing that you're going to absolve me of this guilt. What. What I would feel better about is saying, and if at some point you would forgive me, I would so appreciate that, because your opinion of me really matters to me and our relationship matters to me. But no pressure to do that now.

[Elise Hu]

Yeah. That is still a request for forgiveness, so.

[Adam Grant]

Oh, it is.

[Elise Hu]

Maybe what? Maybe what's bothering you is the. The question part.

[Adam Grant]

Yes.

[Elise Hu]

Will you forgive me? You could also word it as, are we good? Are we okay to move forward? Any statement that invites the other person in, that's the request for forgiveness. And someone could also respond, you know, if you said, are we good? Are we going to be able to move forward? Someone could respond and say, I need to think about it. I need some time. So someone does not have to choose right away to engage in the trust repair process or at all.

[Adam Grant]

Even good apologies aren't always enough. They tend to work better for failures of competence than failures of character. In other words, for accidents and mistakes rather than deliberate decisions to be uncaring or dishonest. And your history matters a great deal, too.

[Elise Hu]

It depends on how long our relationship has been in existence. It depends on our level of trust. It depends on prior deception. So how many times have you wronged me? Is this your fourth violation? And I really need to rethink whether or not we can continue this working relationship, or is this the first time that I violated? How isolated was the incident? So there's so many variables that go into this that it just goes back to. And it depends on the situation.

[Adam Grant]

Another thing I was wondering about is what do you do when people don't see eye to eye on whether an apology is needed? So I think you've wronged me. You don't agree. Now what?

[Elise Hu]

Yeah, so it all depends on the perspective of the person who was harmed. Because if the person who was harmed believes that an apology is due, then it can be seen as a second violation to not offer an apology. It begins to get tricky, though, because if you, as the person who violated trust, really believe that you do not need to offer an apology, then how sincere will your apology be? Even if you do make an apology statement, and you have to ask yourself, both parties need to ask themselves, do we need to repair trust? Do we need to continue this relationship? And do we want to continue this relationship. And if both parties need and want to continue the relationship, then both parties need to take the perspective of the other and find a way to repair the harm that was done.

[Adam Grant]

Ideally, we start learning these skills early, which is a big focus in Kath Konicke's pre K classroom.

[Kath Konicke]

It takes time and experiences apologizing and making mistakes and hurting other people to learn that you can have that effect on other people. And especially, like, they hurt each other's feelings in ways that don't necessarily make sense to them as an adult. I feel like we can make a joke that, like, maybe I think is really funny, but it is hurtful, and it. It takes a while to understand that, like, what doesn't hurt you might hurt somebody else.

[Adam Grant]

Cath tries to teach her students that they're responsible for that hurt, even if they didn't mean for it to happen. Positive intent doesn't guarantee positive impact.

[Kath Konicke]

And so we tell the children that if you hurt somebody's body or their feelings, it's your job to help them feel better. And the way we do that is we have the child who did the hurting say, what do you need to feel better? And the child who was hurt can respond with whatever it is they need.

[Adam Grant]

Over time, Cath sees Drive by Saris morph into real apologies.

[Kath Konicke]

I was in the gym, and kids were running around really fast, and two kids ran into each other, and it was like they hadn't been able to produce this language independently all year. But this time, I just saw the two kids, and one said, like, are you okay? And the other child said, no. They said, what do you need to feel better? And they needed a hug, and then they moved on. And it was this, like, wow. They trust that they can apologize, that, like, their apology can actually repair whatever hurt happened, and that they're not, like, losing anything by apologizing.

[Adam Grant]

You know what's so fascinating about that is a lot of people don't want to apologize because they're giving away power, and you're saying, no, not so much.

[Kath Konicke]

Yeah. I mean, I think it can initially feel that way for a lot of children. Right? Like, they identify with being right, and having to say that they weren't is really tough. But then when they see that process to its conclusion, they also get to see the power of repairing. And you can often see a real sense of pride in the child who did the hurting, because then they fixed it, and then they made the child feel good, which I think can be. Really can make a child feel powerful.

[Adam Grant]

An apology doesn't give away power. It gives us the power to right our wrongs. A hug might do the trick in pre K, but once we move into the adult work world, effective repair can get more complicated. One of my favorite mantras is that the best apology is changed behavior. So what does good repair look like? More on that after the break. Managing a global team is complex. Deal makes it simpler with payroll, HR, IT and compliance all in one place. That's why over 35,000 businesses trust deal to hire, pay and manage teams worldwide. See how Deal [e-mail] WorkLife Deal your Forever People platform I have this nightmare.

[Elise Hu]

That I never finished college or that someone's going to find out that I don't have the qualifications for this job and I'm like a total fraud. Hi, I'm Jane Marine, host of the Dream, and that's a clip from my appearance on Mind if We Talk, a new podcast from Better Help that demystifies what therapy is really about and is here to remind us all that whatever we're going through, we're never alone. I recently sat down with host and licensed therapist Hae Soo Jo to talk about Imposter Syndrome, where I shared a bit more about my experience with feeling inadequate or not worthy of my job, motherhood, being a girlfriend, and of course, because this is therapy, we offer solutions. I'm sure a lot of you can relate to those kinds of feelings. I can't wait for you to hear it, to listen to the rest of our conversation and hear other guests explore struggles we all face in life. Listen and subscribe to Mind if we Talk?

[Adam Grant]

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[Mark Gallagher]

So you got 22 people. They carry out 36 tasks in two seconds.

[Adam Grant]

This is Mark Gallagher.

[Mark Gallagher]

I've been an executive working in Formula one auto racing all my career, and I now run my own consultancy business working in the sport.

[Adam Grant]

Okay, I see the car rolling in. A bunch of people just touched the car and then it just went, wow, that Was extremely uneventful.

[Mark Gallagher]

Well, that's the way we like it. You know, you should show that clip to the auto shop and say to them, this is the kind of service, you know, I'd love to have.

[Adam Grant]

In F1, the difference between drivers comes down to just a few seconds. So even the smallest mistake can have major consequences. And that's especially true for pit stops. When drivers get their tires swapped during a race, it's a highly coordinated dance.

[Mark Gallagher]

They jack the car up, they remove the wheels and tyres, they put the new wheels and tyres on, they adjust the aerodynamics of the car, and then they lower it back onto the surface of the planet and set it back.

[Adam Grant]

Into action, all in two seconds or less. Formula One pit crews are exemplars of what researchers call high reliability organisms. Like airlines, hospitals and nuclear power plants. They work in high stakes environments where errors can be catastrophic.

[Mark Gallagher]

It's a high risk activity because fundamentally, you have a machine weighing almost a metric ton driving at speeds of over 200 miles an hour. So for the first 45 or 50 years of Formula One, the things that could go really wrong were something broke on the car or the driver made an error and it led to loss of life.

[Adam Grant]

Since then, changes in car design have reduced the most extreme risks. But the stakes are high in other ways. A mistake could mean millions of dollars worth of repairs, or the difference between getting on the podium and not. In 2016, at the Monte Carlo race, all eyes were on a rising star, a driver named Daniel Ricardo.

[Mark Gallagher]

So Daniel Ricciardo was heading for victory, but he was being pushed hard, so he had a rival right behind him, and he came in for a pit stop.

[Adam Grant]

Something to know about this race. It has the shortest track, so the.

[Mark Gallagher]

Amount of time the team has to basically collect its thoughts or make a decision is much shorter than normal. So the team had an instantaneous decision to make about a pit stop. They decided to call the pit stop. And this is where things really started to go wrong.

[Adam Grant]

Daniel pulls in one second, goes by, then two, three.

[Mark Gallagher]

Those seconds when nothing is happening feel like hours. It's. It's just excruciating.

[Adam Grant]

By now, he should be back on the track, but Daniel is still waiting.

[Mark Gallagher]

I remember I was with a group of people and they were literally screwed. Screaming, oh, my goodness. You know, they've got this row so wrong. And his tires are not ready, his wheels are not ready.

[Adam Grant]

Waiting for his wheel change, Daniel lost around 10 seconds total.

[Mark Gallagher]

It cost him victory in that race. And that failure, every aspect of it was the opposite of what Formula one teams want to be known for, so they want to be known for clinical efficiency, split second decision making, brilliant teamwork, seamless execution. And it was wrong in every level. So there was miscommunication, there was confusion, there was chaos. It was just a catastrophe.

[Adam Grant]

Daniel was the runner up about seven seconds behind the winner. He was not happy.

[Mark Gallagher]

After that event, you can imagine apologies all around to Daniel, individual mechanics, his race engineer, you know, they're all apologizing to him, saying we're really sorry. And on the flip side, he's going, I know you're really sorry, because he knows just how much they want to win.

[Adam Grant]

But sorry wasn't enough.

[Mark Gallagher]

Well, we got the apology, which is fine, but actually that's not really going to help us. What helps us is what actually went wrong. So let's, let's get into the debrief. Let's actually sit down and say, what went wrong today? How do we make sure that never happens again?

[Adam Grant]

The team needed to go beyond words to action and focus on repair. It's the most complex r and as with apologies, there are ineffective and effective versions. Research points to three key steps for repair. The first is to over deliver. Evidence shows that after customers make a complaint, their satisfaction and loyalty depend on how they're treated by service providers. The best way to show care and integrity is to exceed expectations. For example, if a food delivery is missing an item, it's not enough to refund the cost. Someone is left hangry. You make amends by refunding the cost and covering a free meal. The second step is change. If you're a worker or an organization, you need to improve your policies and practices. F1 teams are well oiled machines at this. Literally after crises like the Monte Carlo race, they establish a clear chain of command, then they start troubleshooting.

[Mark Gallagher]

So the fact finding process there is getting all the key stakeholders literally around the table. And in this case, the key stakeholders were not just, you know, the leadership team and the senior people in the pit crew, but actually every individual member of the pit crew. Because we often find when we do analysis of what goes wrong that it's usually not one thing. So you usually get a cascading impact. So you get a missed radio communication. Missed radio communication leads to someone perhaps making an assumption or if they've misheard the radio communication, they start to do something which actually they weren't asked to do.

[Adam Grant]

During this process, Daniel Riccardo's team realized that their mistake hinged on the uniqueness of the Monte Carlo racetrack. It doesn't just have the shortest track with quick laps.

[Elise Hu]

It.

[Adam Grant]

It also has the smallest space for team garages.

[Mark Gallagher]

There is so little room in Monte Carlo, the teams don't have a proper garage. So instead of having a garage on a single floor, they have a facility that's over two floors.

[Adam Grant]

This meant that the race strategists were physically separated from the team mechanics.

[Mark Gallagher]

So that turned out to be quite pivotal because I had to make a quick decision and there was a call made by the strategist which did not get communicated to the race team efficiently. So there was a loss of time. There was one individual who had a key role to play in this, and they were effectively unsighted and out of place at precisely the moment where they needed to make that communication.

[Adam Grant]

The team concluded that their regular process wouldn't work for the distinctive layout of Monte Carlo. So they changed it. They developed a process tailored for a two tiered garage.

[Mark Gallagher]

And the result was, guess what? Daniel subsequently won that race.

[Adam Grant]

That's right. Two years after the Pit Stop debacle, Daniel finally got his win.

[Mark Gallagher]

And I think really, the errors and mistakes in Formula one are accepted as being something that happens from time to time. The thing that is not accepted is if the same mistake, the same error reoccurs, and particularly if it's reoccurring with the same individual, because then you know you have a slightly deeper seated problem.

[Adam Grant]

You don't even have to wait for a postmortem to debrief yesterday's errors. You can run a pre mortem to prevent tomorrow's errors. Think about an important decision that your team is making. Assume that in a few months or a few years, you find out that it's gone terribly wrong. What are the three most likely causes? Research reveals that pre mortems help us see around corners. Once we've anticipated possible threats, we can work to stop them from happening in advance. This is something mark has seen F1 teams do.

[Mark Gallagher]

So they essentially said to their own people, okay, if you worked for the competition, how would you beat us? And that became a very interesting process because it turned out that their own people actually did have a really high awareness of where perhaps their weaknesses might lie. And we're kind of saying, where could the missteps be and how can we avoid that?

[Adam Grant]

This leads to the third step for increase accountability and autonomy.

[Mark Gallagher]

When someone makes a mistake, why not use that moment to give that person even more responsibility?

[Adam Grant]

Although it can be tempting to micromanage, the healthiest cultures actually couple accountability with autonomy. You can see it in A study of robotics line operators. We when they gained more authority to manage machine faults, they took it upon themselves to fix the errors, which meant less machine downtime. Then they started learning what caused the faults in the first place and managed to prevent errors over time. This happens in Formula one teams. Mark once spoke to a driver for the Williams team who had a big accident after his steering went out during a test lap.

[Mark Gallagher]

And he told me that it was one of those accidents where you genuinely feel frightened because you know that you're about to hit the wall very, very hard. Afterwards, he was INV Williams factory by Sir Frank Williams, who founded the team, was chief executive, and he invited David into the boardroom to meet the mechanic who had not bolted the suspension together properly. This mechanic apologized and said, I. I just cannot believe what happened. He said, I was building your steering and I. I got distracted by a colleague and I went away and did another job and I forgot to come back and finish it. And I said to David, so what happened to that mechanic? And he said, well, it's interesting. He said Frank promoted him. He made him head of steering systems because he said, that guy will never, ever let another Williams car out of the garage without the perfect steering on it because he will never, ever want a repeat of that. And I love things like that because it's a diametric opposite of the blame culture where people get blamed and fired.

[Adam Grant]

As Amy Edmondson pointed out in our Work Life episode, is it safe to speak up? The best way to prevent errors is to make them discussable.

[Mark Gallagher]

I think that is very suggestive of an open, honest, transparent, and psychologically safe culture within which every member of the team can contribute, can speak up and speak out. If they see something going wrong or being done badly, they can say so. You have a very open, honest conversation, and that helps the whole organization to move forward.

[Adam Grant]

Blaming and shaming doesn't stop people from making mistakes. It stops them from admitting mistakes. If people can't share their blunders, we can't learn from them and they can't repair them. When you apologize, you're not acknowledging that you're a bad person. You're taking a step toward becoming a better person and you're showing you care about the other person. This episode was produced by Daphne Chen. Our team includes Brittany Cronin, Constanza Gallardo, Greta Cohn, Grace Rubinstein, Daniela Balarezzo, Ban Cheng, Alejandra Salazar and Roxanne Hylash. Our fact checker is Paul Durbin. Our show is mixed by Sarah Bruguer. Original music by Hans Dale Singer and Alison Layton Brown Gratitude to the following researchers and their Kurt Dirks and Don Ferrin on Trust, Konstantin Siddikides on narcissism, Fiona Lee, Gabe Adams and Juan Madera on leader responsibility, Carl Weich, Kathy Sutcliffe and Dave Hoffman on high reliability organizations, Chiara Orsinger on customer complaints, Gary Klein on pre mortems, Toby Wall on Autonomy and Beth Poland's co authors, Roy Lewicki and Robert Lount Jr on apologies. I have to tell you, it took a fair amount of cognitive dissonance reduction to bring an Ohio State PhD onto this show. So that's how much I like your work.

[Elise Hu]

Oh well, thank you. I really appreciate that. That means a lot.

[Adam Grant]

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[Elise Hu]

Hey, it's Marc Maron from WTF here.

[Adam Grant]

To let you know that this podcast is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.

[Elise Hu]

And I'm sure the reason you're listening.

[Adam Grant]

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