WorkLife with Adam Grant: The Truth About the Attention Crisis with Historian Daniel Immerwahr

Release Date: July 29, 2025

In this enlightening episode of "WorkLife with Adam Grant," host Adam Grant engages in a profound conversation with Daniel Immerwahr, a distinguished historian and award-winning author from Northwestern University. Together, they delve into the pervasive narrative surrounding the so-called "attention crisis," challenging widely held beliefs and offering a fresh historical perspective.

Challenging the Attention Crisis Narrative

00:47 – The Thesis Unveiled

Adam Grant opens the discussion by introducing Daniel Immerwahr's provocative thesis: the attention crisis may itself be a distraction. Daniel argues that the widespread belief in declining attention spans is not only overstated but also rooted in historical patterns of moral panic.

Daniel Immerwahr:

"The more that we're sorted out into micro-tribes, the more we become obsessive. And avid rather than sort of checked out and unable to focus on anything. So weirdly, the age of distraction is also the age of obsession."
(05:25)

A Historical Lens on Attention

02:28 – Parallels from the Past

Daniel draws parallels between contemporary concerns about digital distractions and historical anxieties over emerging technologies and cultural shifts. He highlights how society has long grappled with similar fears, suggesting that today's attention crisis mirrors past moral panics.

Daniel Immerwahr:

"There were a lot of things in the 18th century people were complaining about that sound shockingly modern, but they were talking about novels and pianos."
(06:06)

Debunking the Myth of Shrinking Attention

14:22 – Empirical Evidence Against Declining Attention

Adam presents a compelling piece of evidence from a 2024 meta-analysis by Andrew Juski and colleagues, which examined data from 32 countries over three decades. Contrary to popular belief, the study found no decline in attention spans among children and even an improvement among adults.

Adam Grant:

"Their data span 1990 to 2021. And what they show is that performance has not gone down over those three decades among children, and it's gone up among Adults."
(17:25)

Daniel Immerwahr:

"So it's gonna get really got more than two thirds. Keep going."
(33:10)

Attention Shifts, Not Losses

19:08 – Rethinking What We Pay Attention To

Daniel emphasizes that the issue isn't a reduction in our ability to focus but rather a shift in what captures our attention. From novels to video games, the mediums have changed, but the capacity to engage deeply remains intact.

Daniel Immerwahr:

"The Internet has not turned us into passive zombies. We've also had moments where the Internet riles you up into this weird frenzy of like doing your own research and having heterodox opinions."
(23:35)

The Quality of Engagement Across Mediums

26:29 – Novels vs. Modern Media

The conversation explores the unique benefits of different mediums. While novels are lauded for fostering empathy and critical thinking, modern media like video games offer interactive and engaging experiences that also build valuable cognitive skills.

Adam Grant:

"There's a whole series of experiments that show that you're better at retaining information when you read it than when you listen to it because you have to work harder to process it."
(28:41)

Practical Takeaways on Managing Attention

31:17 – Strategies for Attention Management

Adam and Daniel share practical advice for navigating the modern attention landscape. They discuss the importance of setting boundaries and being intentional about where and how we direct our focus.

Adam Grant:

"My favorite one is just a simple to don't list. So my, my to don't list includes don't turn on the TV unless I already know what I want to watch."
(31:17)

Daniel Immerwahr:

"Take seriously people's hesitation about attention. Like when people are inattentive to something, don't just berate them for it."
(41:26)

Conclusion: Rethinking Our Relationship with Attention

The episode culminates with a thoughtful reflection on the nature of attention in the digital age. Adam and Daniel agree that while concerns about attention are valid, they often stem from misplaced fears rather than actual declines in cognitive capacity. Instead, the focus should shift to recognizing and valuing the diverse ways in which we engage with the world around us.

Adam Grant:

"My biggest takeaway from Daniel is that we have not lost the capacity to pay attention. What shifted is our motivation."
(41:59)

Daniel Immerwahr:

"One thing the past is really good at, one thing that is cool about being a historian is that it allows you to look at a maybe similar situation without the same overriding sense of what is clearly right and what is clearly wrong."
(36:37)

Key Insights & Reflections

• Historical Parallels: Concerns about attention are not new; similar fears have been voiced throughout history in response to changing technologies and cultural practices.

• Empirical Evidence: Recent studies contradict the narrative of declining attention spans, suggesting that adults may even be improving in their ability to focus.

• Shift in Focus: The real issue lies in what we choose to pay attention to, not in our inherent capacity to do so.

• Media Benefits: Different mediums offer unique cognitive and emotional benefits, from the empathy fostered by novels to the problem-solving skills developed through video games.

• Intentional Attention Management: Practical strategies, such as setting boundaries and curating our attentional focus, are essential in navigating the modern information landscape.

Notable Quotes

• Daniel Immerwahr:

  "We should make a case that we're paying attention to the wrong things, not that we can't pay attention anymore."
  (22:12)

• Adam Grant:

  "If there's enough desire, then you can basically reboot your focus."
  (14:38)

• Daniel Immerwahr:

  "It's weird, but we've had this attention crisis discussion rather a lot before."
  (06:28)

Final Thoughts

In "The Truth About the Attention Crisis," Daniel Immerwahr and Adam Grant provide a nuanced and historically informed perspective on a topic that dominates modern discourse. By challenging the prevailing narrative and presenting robust evidence, they encourage listeners to rethink their assumptions about attention in the digital age. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in understanding the deeper dynamics of focus, motivation, and the ever-evolving landscape of human attention.