Episode Summary: "Befriending Your Impostor Syndrome with Iceland's President Hadla Thomasdader"

In this compelling episode of Worklife with Adam Grant, organizational psychologist Adam Grant engages in a deep and insightful conversation with Hadla Thomasdader, the newly elected President of Iceland. The discussion delves into themes of leadership, imposter syndrome, positive campaigning, and the unique lessons Iceland offers to the world. Through their dialogue, listeners gain a profound understanding of overcoming self-doubt, fostering inclusive leadership, and building a better work life.

1. Introduction to Hadla Thomasdader

Adam Grant opens the episode by introducing Hadla Thomasdader, highlighting her impressive career trajectory:

• Co-founder of Reykjavik University
• Leader of an investment firm through the financial crisis
• CEO of the B Team, a nonprofit aimed at improving business practices for people and the planet
• 2016 Presidential Candidate, and now the elected President of Iceland

Grant emphasizes Hadla's commitment to public service and her resilience in the face of challenges.

2. Overcoming Impostor Syndrome

A significant portion of the conversation centers on impostor syndrome and how Hadla has learned to "befriend" it.

• Initial Doubts: Hadla shares her initial hesitation when encouraged to run for president.

  "My first reaction was who am I to run for president? And I almost think that's the normal reaction" (04:05).

• Befriending, Not Fighting: Instead of battling her self-doubts, Hadla chose to embrace them as a "critical roommate" who asks important questions.

  "You could try to fight it or you can befriend it and think about it almost like this very critical roommate..." (04:57).

• Growth Mindset: Hadla contrasts impostor syndrome with hubris syndrome, suggesting that a healthy dose of self-doubt is less dangerous than overconfidence in leadership.

  "Hubris syndrome is far more dangerous in leadership than a healthy dose of self doubt and imposter thoughts." (05:27).

3. The Shift to Positive Leadership

Hadla discusses her decision to run for president again, emphasizing positive campaigning over fear-based tactics.

• Personal Growth: After her 2016 campaign, she felt she had become the president of her own life, gaining clarity on her vision and values.

  "I became president of my own life... there is every chance that you will come out as a winner because you will grow a lot." (08:19).

• Positive Campaigning: In both her 2016 and 2024 campaigns, Hadla prioritized hope and inspiration instead of fear and anger.

  "I'm gonna run a positive campaign. I'm not gonna lead with fear or anger. I'm gonna ground my candidacy in hope and inspiration." (14:38).

• Sincerity and Compassion: She stressed the importance of sincerity in politics and the need for collaboration and compassion in leadership.

  "Voters recognize sincerity." (15:03).

4. Listening as a Core Leadership Skill

A central theme in Hadla's leadership approach is active listening.

• Conversational Leadership: Rather than traditional speeches, Hadla opts for conversations, fostering engagement and co-creation.

  "I am trying to hold fewer speeches and host more conversations." (20:05).

• Intergenerational Dialogue: She emphasizes the importance of bridging generational gaps through open dialogue.

  "We have to really draw on our full mental and emotional capacities to meet this moment." (07:52).

• Therapeutic Conversations: These dialogues are often therapeutic, helping participants gain new insights and connections.

  "It's borderline therapeutic for people to be invited into spaces like that." (20:05).

5. The Scarf Revolution: Symbolism in Icelandic Politics

Hadla recounts a symbolic moment during her 2016 campaign that became a unifying movement.

• Debate Day Symbolism: Wearing a pink jacket and scarf during debates led to widespread symbolic support.

  "Young Women started wearing pink jackets and scarves... the dogs joined, and somehow we created this sense of a community." (13:00).

• Community Solidarity: The "Scarf Revolution" became a symbol of solidarity and mutual support, transcending political divides.

  "It gave me a lot of energy to find all of that symbolic support." (13:08).

6. Icelandic Lessons for Leadership and Society

Hadla shares several lessons that Iceland's experience offers to the global community.

• Creativity and Sustainability: Highlighting Iceland's innovative solutions in geothermal energy and gender equality.

  "Iceland, maybe together with the Nordics, can be a lighthouse for the creative solutions that we need." (28:47).

• Small is Beautiful: Emphasizing the advantages of small nations in fostering strong, compassionate communities.

  "Being small is not a disadvantage, but a huge advantage." (28:47).

• Inclusive Capitalism: Balancing economic growth with care and compassion for people and the environment.

  "We seem to have figured out how to do capitalism with care and compassion." (31:13).

7. Addressing Modern Leadership Challenges

Hadla outlines the pressing challenges leaders face today and proposes avenues for effective leadership.

• Inequality and Mental Health: Acknowledging the widespread issues of inequality and poor mental health, especially among youth.

  "We have had unsustainable levels of inequality within countries and within the world." (24:14).

• Redefining Leadership: Advocating for leadership that is distributed, inclusive, and engages all individuals in building a better world.

  "We need to rethink leadership as not something that sits in the few and far between presidents and CEOs." (10:53).

8. Lightning Round: Quick Insights

In a rapid-fire segment, Hadla shares succinct thoughts on leadership and personal insights.

• Worst Leadership Advice:

  "Act like a man." (27:33).

• Best Leadership Advice:

  "Be you." (27:36).

• Rethinking Focus: Recently, Hadla has been rethinking the inclusion of boys and men in the gender revolution to foster healthy masculinity.

  "We need to invite them into healthy masculinity." (27:42).

9. Final Thoughts and Future Directions

Concluding the episode, Hadla and Adam reflect on the importance of hope, resilience, and collaborative efforts in leadership.

• Hope as Action: Emphasizing that hope must be coupled with active participation and collaboration.

  "Hope is a verb with its sleeves rolled up." (35:07).

• Appreciative Inquiry: Inspired by concepts like appreciative inquiry, Hadla advocates for focusing on strengths and building upon them.

  "Sometimes people need to see the alternative in order to get psychological safety to leave what they've always known." (35:08).

• Global Collaboration: Highlighting the necessity for countries to partner and share successful models to effect meaningful change.

  "Partnership is maybe the word right now." (31:13).

10. Conclusion: Leadership Through Listening

Adam Grant wraps up by underscoring Hadla's exemplary approach to leadership through active listening and thoughtful questioning. He references research supporting the effectiveness of listening as a critical leadership skill and commends Hadla for her ability to foster understanding and collaboration.

"Being a great listener is not only one of the best ways for a leader to learn, it's also an effective way to help other people clarify their own thinking." (36:50).

Grant expresses admiration for Hadla's leadership style and looks forward to her continued impact both in Iceland and globally.

Key Quotes with Timestamps

• Hadla on Self-Doubt:

  "It's evidence of what I've always dealt with, which is what I now consider a healthy dose of imposter thoughts and self doubts." (04:05)

• Befriending Impostor Syndrome:

  "Befriending it is a strong statement... like this very critical roommate." (04:57)

• Leadership Philosophy:

  "My goal is not to be a president with all the answers. I want to be a president that asks the right questions." (17:50)

• Symbolism of the Scarf:

  "The scarf revolution became a bit of a symbol, something that people started putting up in solidarity." (13:08)

• Positive Campaigning:

  "You can't meet fear, hate, and violence with more of that. That has disaster written all over it." (15:03)

• Listening in Leadership:

  "Questions are far more important than the answers." (22:23)

• Hope and Action:

  "Hope is a verb with its sleeves rolled up." (35:07)

Conclusion

This episode of Worklife with Adam Grant offers invaluable insights into authentic leadership, the importance of embracing self-doubt, and the power of positive, hope-driven campaigns. Hadla Thomasdader's experiences and philosophies provide a blueprint for leaders aiming to foster inclusive, compassionate, and resilient work environments. Her emphasis on active listening, sincere collaboration, and building upon strengths resonates deeply, offering listeners practical strategies to enhance their own work lives and leadership styles.

Note: Timestamps correspond to the provided transcript markers and are formatted as MM:SS.