← The Development Podcast
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- [00:08]
A
Hello and welcome to the Development Podcast from the World Bank Group. I'm Lindy Mtonganna. In this episode, we'll be exploring one of the most urgent challenges in development jobs.
- [00:20]
B
The dignity you get from a job is what really lifts you from poverty.
- [00:24]
A
We speak to one incredible Jamaican lawyer and activist who is passionate about the need for better opportunities for marginalized and rural youth.
- [00:33]
C
That's why development is so important. And I always say development not just for survival, but for liberation.
- [00:39]
A
And we hear from IFC on why the private sector is mission critical.
- [00:43]
D
A lot of the job creation comes from the intersection, from the public sector. The private sector, it means that you need to have policies which are conducive to private sector investment, but also you need to have conditions which allow people to make a return on their investment.
- [00:59]
A
That's all coming up in the Development Podcast. So before we get stuck in, here's an obvious starter question. Why is the World Bank Group now so incredibly focused on jobs? Well, there's an equally obvious answer once you crunch the numbers. 1.2 billion young people across emerging economies will reach working age over the next 10 years. Yet only 420 million jobs are currently expected to be generated. That disparity means the need to create jobs has never been greater. And that begs another what will capitalizing on what has been labeled a demographic dividend achieve? The answer is simple. It will strengthen economic and social stability, reduce mass migration, improve livelihoods, and enhance resilience to economic climate and other shocks. But there's more. And here we're back to the World Bank Group's raison d'. Tre. Generating quality, sustainable jobs will prevent people from falling back into poverty and generate shared prosperity. And this will benefit not just emerging economies, but developed countries too. Of course, it's a big challenge to address. And just ahead of the World Bank Group's spring meetings, the institution's president, Ajay Banga, set out how it will pivot to address the challenge.
- [02:25]
B
We're taking basically a practical three part approach. Our public sector arms, that's IBRD and ida, they work with governments to lay the foundation to deploy finance towards infrastructure. Education, health care, food security. These are the essential conditions, the enabling infrastructure for people and businesses to thrive. Our Knowledge bank helps to create the right environment by supporting regulatory and policy reforms, building on that infrastructure, improving governance and linking financing to results. So in 2024, nearly half of our public sector financing was performance based, linked to results, up from 28% a decade ago. And finally, through our private sector arms, IFC and MIGA we can help to mobilize investment, provide financing and risk and mitigation, and support business growth in areas like energy and infrastructure, agribusiness, healthcare, tourism. These are sectors that create large numbers of jobs. And all of these are backstopped by ICSIT's capabilities in settling disputes.
- [03:29]
A
We'll be returning to Ajay in a little bit, but first let's hear from one inspiring woman who has a very personal take on why opportunity matters. This is the sound of rural Jamaica. Birds call to each other in the lush treetop and there's a cooling breeze at the top of steep sided hills. Small holders grow their crops in the shade of the trees and in many ways in seems idyllic, but imagine if you're young, ambitious and cut off from the opportunities found in towns and cities. Christina Williams was one such young person. The daughter of an illiterate single parent who had to travel abroad for long stints to earn a living for the family. She had little access to education growing up, but she has made it her mission to campaign for better opportunities for the young. I sat down with her in the studio here in Washington D.C. and and she told me her story.
- [04:21]
C
Firstly, thank you for having me on the development podcast. I'm excited to be here.
- [04:26]
A
You've had to conquer a lot on your own journey that there's been challenges and setbacks along the way. It makes me think of that, of that saying. I'm sure you've heard it. Like when people say you are your ancestors wildest dreams, right? And sometimes it's amazing just what can be achieved from generation to generation.
- [04:42]
C
Indeed.
- [04:42]
A
I wonder how that phrase resonates for you when you think about your parents, your family and how far you've come if you compare yourself to the generations before you.
- [04:51]
C
I'm happy you asked this question because I always feel when I stand in a room that I'm standing on the backs of my father, my grandmother, both of them who raised me and everyone else who came before in my family. We don't have a lot of history of formal education in my family. My grandmother, my father didn't graduate primary school and I'm a first generation graduate of a university. First generation professional in terms of not being able to say that I'm a lawyer. Like that's the first of its kind in my immediate family. So it carries this sense of responsibility, but also not just from the sense of wealth from my family, but of course for the wider Caribbean Jamaican family of how can I contribute to these other lives? And I say help them to Also be their ancestors wildest dreams as well.
- [05:42]
A
Beautifully said. And it resonates with me as well. Coming from an African background. I'm from South Africa. I was born in the 1980s in South Africa during a time when there was a bahtate. So that means my parents, my grandparents, they weren't even allowed to access education.
- [05:56]
C
Right, Right.
- [05:57]
A
I want to understand a little bit more about the context in which you grow up. Can you tell me about where you grew up, what it was like, the sights and sounds, what it's like waking up in the morning, what it smells like, what it feels like where you grew up.
- [06:09]
C
Fresh, a lot of vegetation, greenery, a lot of animals. I grew up in a small farming community. We also had some challenges. For example, for many years we didn't have formal electricity, formal running water. I mean, that has changed. The infrastructure has changed a bit now, years later. But when I grew up, we didn't have those essential amenities formalized. And so we had to walk to the standpipe, as we would call it in Jamaica, to get water and bring it back to our homes, fill up the drum. And then we'd use from that throughout the week. And then we'd use different forms of like a lantern or a candle, et cetera, for electricity, et cetera. So you can imagine as a student, you're studying by the lamplight, you're studying by the candlelight. A lot of wooden structures as homes. And mind you, Jamaica is in a disaster prone area, a lot of hurricanes. So having a wooden structure as your home is a concern. But the people are hardworking people, people of the soil. A lot of farmers. My father and my grandmother are farm. My father, he leaves most of the year to Canada to pursue, they call it the overseas farm work. So most of the year he's away doing that to make ends meet. But he would return, he returned to his farm or sometimes he would be like a taxi operator. That was the mix of what he did. I'm happy to know that now there has been some improvement. We're seeing a lot more of our young people pursuing more, as you'd say, professional type of jobs. But during that time, a lot of farming persons worked in houses, household work. That's mostly what we saw. That's why. So development is so important. And I always say development not just for survival, but for liberation. Because you could see how by having certain mechanisms implemented, certain interventions implemented in my community, we're seeing a gradual transition. I'd love for it to be faster, might I add. But we're Seeing a gradual transition from people just trying to survive, but being liberated from their families into their communities.
- [08:19]
A
Yeah. And when you speak of development, you know what you said about your father working all the way in Canada to help make ends meet, is that a particular feature of the search for opportunity for people where you come from? So either you leave your rural area or you leave the city or you leave the country in order to find opportunities.
- [08:38]
C
Exactly that. So a lot of, for example, a number of my peers that I went to school with, they wanted to pursue, like, STEM careers. Most of them matriculated out into either the US or other countries. So there's a lot of migration that happens for persons who are seeking out more professional type of work and even those within my community who weren't necessarily seeking out professional work just to even pursue a higher wage. Like I said, my dad, he would have to go away to Canada to work on a farm. So he's still a farmer in Jamaica, but then go to Canada to work on a farm there as well so that he could earn more. So, yes, a lot of migration, a lot of movement, and of course, you know, with that carries its own effects on families. I was raised by my dad and my grandmother, as I mentioned before, because my mother moved away to seek a better life. And so I was raised by my father. So there are a lot of unseen impacts of how it is that what it is that people do to access opportunity. A lot of unseen impacts. So that is what my work is focused around. How do we see those unseen and tap into that and provide solutions to support those young people?
- [09:49]
A
That's incredible. Now, you pursued a career in law. Tell me a little bit about that. What inspired you to pursue law?
- [09:56]
C
My dad, actually, when I was younger, my dad, he introduced me to the newspaper. We would discuss issues in the newspaper. And he challenged me. He's like, what do you think about this? Do you think we could change that? Do you think we could make it better? And that's very interesting because my dad cannot read. So I would read the newspaper to him and then he would stop and he would say, what do you think about that? And so from there, I developed this love for the law and a love for justice. And I'm like, how can we use what exists to make things better or challenge what exists to make things better? And had that love for law. I wanted to become a lawyer, but I tried to become a lawyer from about 2016, 2017. Didn't actually get my law degree to 2022 quite a number of years. Later. But you know, in Jamaica we have this saying that delayed but not denied. So I remain grateful and I bring that gratitude into my work that it powers me and it powers my efforts not to have other young people deferred or denied in their pursuits.
- [10:56]
A
So then when you look at those that are coming from vulnerable communities, children from disadvantaged backgrounds, what kind of support do you think they need in terms of education in order to get into the job market and thrive and succeed in it?
- [11:11]
C
There are complexity of issues around education. Of course, tuition is one. Many societies in the Caribbean doesn't provide free tertiary education or free education. Beyond a particular point, some do. So of course we have to reconcile trying to make education as affordable as possible because that's one of the main tenets of accessibility. But beyond that, we also need to ensure that young people have access to housing options, access to even health insurance. That's one of the things that I implemented in my country. Having health insurance available for over almost 20,000 students that didn't have it before. Low income students, ensuring that they have access to food because you cannot learn without food. It is as simple but as important and fundamental as that. So all these other areas that need to support the well being of our students, the mentorship, the support in terms of placement, the support in terms of additional training, because you know there's training that you probably need us beyond the classroom as well. We're talking about soft, soft skills beyond the technical skills. So there's a lot of, I would say 260 degrees support that needs to happen with our young people in, in our schools. And what we find is that many, many, many systems have a portion of that but not the other. And so we find we have students who are enrolled, but they drop out along the way or they graduate, but they still can't find a job because they did, they weren't fully equipped in all the ways that they need. So that's what I think. I think we need to ensure that we're considering the complexity of the issues and we're providing comprehensive solutions.
- [12:46]
A
Thank you to Christina. What an amazing woman. Let's return to World Bank Group president Ajay Banga to find out about the industries that will form the focus of this initiative and why.
- [12:58]
B
We're looking at five vertical sectors where we believe jobs can get created in the emerging markets. The first is infrastructure. Almost all these emerging markets lack critical infrastructure. Bridges, roads, airports, electricity, digital health care, schooling, skilling. Second is agriculture as a business. If you look at Africa, small farmers, we cannot let them fall away. Africa has only 6% of its area under irrigation. To give you a comparison, Asia has 37%. The third is primary health care. Not just because you will make money, healthier populations, meaning healthier workforce, of course, so. But you will employ nurses, you will employ medical diagnostic readers, you will employ PPE manufacturing, you will employ midwives for deliveries. If you think about this, you create another flywheel of jobs for many people to be employed. The fourth is tourism. That's an obvious one. The fifth is manufacturing for local and regional consumption. But critically, a lot of these emerging markets have minerals and metals that the whole world needs, not for extraction alone, but for creating jobs there which are value added.
- [14:11]
A
So local jobs powered by the natural resources, strengths and needs of developing economies. And Ajay's last point is crucial. It's also about creating value chains within those countries rather than simply exporting raw materials to the developed world. In his words, again, give people their chance to do things with their hands and their brains and get better value and earning well. The private sector is absolutely crucial to all of this. And we can see those value chains being built in partnership with the private sector across World Bank Group projects from cashew nut production in Cote d', ivoire, where over 18,000 jobs have been created, including through improving processing capacity, to horticultural businesses in Uzbekistan. There, our partnership has led to the creation of over 34,000 permanent jobs, plus additional work in packaging, storage and distribution. And now to Kenya, where I saw first hand one partnership which is driving inclusive growth and strengthening supply chains. The hum of sewing machines fills the factory floor of Royal Apparel EPZ Ltd. As thousands of workers stitch together clothing for global brands.
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E
Our people are so skilled, like they can handle any product anytime, any day.
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A
That's um, Prakash Shukla, the chairman and founder of the Royal Group of Companies. An Indian national and trained accountant, he moved to Kenya in 2005, bringing with him a background in exports and a growing passion for for the garment industry. What started in a rented shed has grown into a major force in Kenya's textile sector. And today he's a key player shaping its future.
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E
So we started with a very humble beginning in 2010 and with a very small operations, say 100 machines and providing jobs to 225 people at those times. Today here we are running like 2,500 machines and providing jobs to over 4,5800 workers. Out of those 5,800 individuals, like 70% are women. And 2025, we are looking for 8,200 million US dollar turnover and by 20272028 we are targeting to reach 500 million dollar turnover.
- [16:40]
A
An impressive trajectory for a business and one that is also addressing a pressing challenge in Kenya. Kenya the gender gap in employment. According to World Bank Group data, 62% of women in Kenya are in the workforce. The vast majority, 73% are in vulnerable employment, meaning informal, low paying, unstable jobs, often with little security or safety nets. It's for this reason that Mr. Shukla is about as proud of his business as he is of the transformation he's seen in his staff's lives.
- [17:14]
E
When I came to Kenya and when I started my own company, I've seen the people who are fearing to even use the banking business and all. In fact, at that time when they joined, they were very young so it was very difficult for them to carry themselves to even take care of the family. But today these are same people, they're carrying the children. Today they go to the school. So we feel proud of the transformation. What we have seen.
- [17:39]
A
Logistics manager Sharon Maithia joined Royal in 2012. My life has changed since I've been able to support my family. I've been also able to be supported by the company to even obtain property for my kids, a house. So I've achieved so much. I've also been able to pay school fees for my kids comfortably. I came here when my kids were in this school. Right now they're in high school. Sharon's own success has propelled her to mentor and pave the way for younger women in the company. I work with four women in my department. The youngest is 23 years. I promoted her internally, I taught her the procedures and at least now she's stable. So we encourage like internal promotion to young girls in the current economy status, everybody has to bring something to the table. So women contribution also counts and they are able to support their family when they are stable. With support from IFC, Royal Apparel is expanding. A $15 million investment will help the company create roughly 4,500 new jobs and scale up production, thus expanding its footprint in the textiles value chain that will
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help to sustain these jobs jobs because creating jobs is just the beginning.
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The IFC investment includes a $5 million loan from the Canada IFC Advancing Gender Equality, Resilience, Opportunity and Inclusion Worldwide Facility or Canada Grow Fund. IFC's partnership with Royal Apparel shows how investment in manufacturing drives jobs, sustainability and economic growth. With IFC's support, the company is scaling up while strengthening Kenya's supply chains and creating real job opportunities.
- [19:30]
E
The ifc, they believe in our vision, what we have and they believe in our growth and they believe in the dream, what we have planned for the better future for all these people. So IFC coming in plays a very important, very crucial role in our development.
- [19:48]
A
Now to one man who can shine a light on the World Bank Group's work with the private sector. Maghtar Diop, Managing Director of the International Finance Corporation. The IFC works in over 100 countries and in the previous fiscal year committed $56 billion to private companies and financial institutions in developing countries, a record amount. Magda, it's a real pleasure to have you on the development podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. Of course, we're talking about jobs and more specifically the private sector. We know that this was a huge theme of the spring meetings, but I want to go back to the basics. Why is the private sector so crucial to the World Bank Group's strategy for job creation?
- [20:28]
D
Having a job is something that is essential for everybody. It's about dignity, it's about feeding your families, about being someone in your society. And I think that if you don't address these issues, we're not helping country to develop. We are not also contributing the peace in the world because a lot of people are moving to travel to remote places in very dangerous conditions to be able to have a job and to have a better living. So that's the reason why an institution like the World Bank Group, which is focused on the well being of people and development in improving the living condition in the poorest country, but also among the poor in the more developed countries, is focused on this. So what's the private sector? It's because the government doesn't have the money to do that. But also the government doesn't have the innovation that the private sector has to be able to create a new idea which are helping solving problems. But we cannot look at it in a separate way. A lot of the job creation comes from the intersection, from the public sector, the private sector. It means that you need to have policies which are conducive to private sector investment, but also you need to have conditions which allow people to make a return on their investment. So that link, that nexus, is at the heart of what the World Bank Group is doing. And that lead us to think of working more together to be able to link better the private part of the World Bank Group, which is ifc, with the public part of the World Bank Group and to work in unison together to be able to provide the right solutions.
- [22:02]
A
When you talk about working together, it does bring to mind the fact that the private Sector's potential can only be realized when certain fundamental things are in place. So let's dig into that a little further. What conditions are necessary for the private sector to truly thrive?
- [22:17]
D
Visibility into policies reduce uncertainty. When I go and put my money in a place where I expect a return which will be in five years, in three years or over a certain period of time, I need to make sure that that environment is an environment that is safe. If I know that if I make a decision today, it will be reversed in a year or two, I'm hesitating in putting that money in that country. But it's not only foreign direct investment, because we often think about them, but we don't think about local investors. We often talk about capital flight from Africa, for instance. Another thing that largely is due to the fact that people don't fight interesting assets in investing in their own countries. So we need to ensure that there is certainty. There is a rule of law in the country. There is less corruption to attract investment. But we need also to have the skills that are needed to be able to get the return on investments that you expect. We need to have infrastructure. If you are not able to evacuate the goods that you are producing in a country, you will not want to invest there. We need to develop also regional trade because often we think that country have to produce and export outside their continent. A lot of the trade that is needed is regional trade that will allow to have more investment for the private sector and have an investor for Malawi who can invest in Senegal or who can evacuate its production from Malawi to Senegal without facing any barrier. That's what the investors are looking at. So certainty in the policy environment, clarity. They need to have skills and they need to access capital and to de risk that capital either by having an institution like us helping them on things like local currency and so forth, but to use all the instruments that you have, including guarantees to de risk investment from the private sector.
- [24:17]
A
Well, one new or relatively new kind of tool that the ifc, one of the World bank group has in its toolbox to adjust job creation is the Private Sector Investment Lab, which coming out of the spring meetings seems to be enhancing in certain ways. Tell us a little bit more about what the lab is and how it supports the World Bank Group's job strategy.
- [24:37]
D
So private sector lab is 20 CEOs from the the most important CEOs in terms of financing the world economy will accept it together under the leadership of ade and they came up with a certain number of recommendations. One of them linked to the certainty in terms of investment, the policy certainty, the regulatory framework in countries, the rule of law of the country, which is something that the World bank does very well. The second thing that they talked about is the need to have guarantees because they realize that if you don't have guarantees, difficult to secure your investment in some part of the world. The third thing that they highlighted is the need to have a local currency because one of the risks they are facing is that there is a mismatch between the dollar denominated assets that they have and the returns that they have in local currency. As we are working in country which have often large fluctuation is that exchange rate that is a risk that needs to be to be covered. One of the last point I emphasize is the need of more equity. That equity is a very scarce and rare resource for developing countries and it allows to leverage a lot of resources capital market. So all these are the elements of the IFC 2030 as you can see. And we have been able to respond, trying to respond to the requirement of the of the market to be able to attract more investment.
- [26:06]
A
Thank you Maghta. Really fascinating insights. Well, there's a lot of optimism about job creation and the opportunities needed for this new generation that's about to enter the workforce. And a lot of work to do to realize the vision. We've reached the end of another development podcast. Thank you for listening. There is of course a whole lot more to unpack on jobs and a good place to start is the most recent spring meetings which you can check out on World Bank Live. I'm going to leave you as we started with the words of Ajay Banga on why addressing the jobs challenge is so crucial for development.
- [26:41]
B
The dignity you get from a job is what really lifts you from poverty. We must understand that, internalize it and care about jobs as the best North Star for this institution.