← The Development Podcast
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign hello, and welcome to the Development Podcast from the World Bank Group. I'm Sarah Trina. Join us ahead of a short summer break as we take a trip around the globe to bring you highlights from our series exploring how to end poverty on a livable planet. We'll take you from Samoa to Nepal and explore what a livable planet means for jobs, for the climate, for women, forests, for refugees, and for the next generation.
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B
There's no bigger problem for the world to fix today than the climate problem. The world is not going to be a very cozy, hospitable place in the future unless we do something about it today. And I think young people realize this more than anybody else.
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A
We'll be getting the view from youth activists.
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C
And so I started to physically and emotionally encapsulate what climate change was because I realized that I was living in it.
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A
From partners including the un, you find.
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Societies or communities which no longer have access to water, no longer have access to arable land, and that is creating conflict.
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A
We'll get an insight into the jobs of the future and from the World bank about the value of nature.
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E
For us all, nature and forests are an engine of economic development. They are the path out of poverty.
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A
The Development podcast Livable Planet from the World Bank Group.
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D
We must find a way to finance a different world where our climate is protected, where pandemics are manageable, if not preventable, where food is abundant and fragility and poverty are defeated. So our task is great. We must be an institution that exports optimism and impact. So the World bank is turning to face the wind. And today there is a new vision and mission for the World bank, and that is to create a world free of poverty on a livable planet.
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A
That was World Bank Group President Ajay Banga, Speaking at the 2023 World Bank IMF Annual Meetings in Marrakech. This landmark address outlined both a new vision for the World bank and the roadmap to achieve it. It ushered in a new era to really get to grips with what a livable planet means. Here at the Development Podcast, we decided to launch a mini series exploring this new focus of the institution and how it impacts partners and people all over the world. We started shortly after last year's UN climate change conference called COP28 in Dubai by speaking to some of those at the forefront of the battle against the climate crisis. Let's hear now from Samoa from one youth climate activist, Brianna Frewen, who spoke about her love for the region and commitment to fighting for its future.
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C
Talafa Lava My name is Suluafi. Brianna Fruin. So Suluafi is my Samoan chiefly name and I do climate work.
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A
I asked Brianna to describe to me a sense of what it was like growing up.
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C
Picture perfect, picturesque, clear waters, white sandy beaches type beach you see in a postcard. I was always surrounded by waterfalls and lush gardens and forests. Growing up, it really was as cliche as it sounds. I felt like I was blessed to grow up in paradise. And of course, not saying that paradise didn't have its problems, but a very big problem that I felt was about to take away this paradise for me was climate change.
- [03:48]
A
Brianna said that she didn't really think.
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C
About climate change until I learned about coral bleaching. And that's when everything clicked to me where I was thinking, okay, no wonder why the fish stock at the fish market is not looking the same as when I was 5 years old. From these small little things, like the visual change of fish stock to like the big things like the cyclone. And actually physically being in a cyclone, being in like two and three cyclones when from like the age of 10 to the age of 15. And I would talk to my mom, she said that her first cyclone she experienced was when she was 19. And so I started to physically and emotionally, like, encapsulate what climate change was because I realized that I was living in it.
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A
Well, the goal of keeping global temperature rises to under 1.5 degrees is off track. And this is something we talked about with the UN Environment Programme's Executive director, Inge Anderson.
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F
We keep calling out the G20 because that is where we have this 76% of all emissions. But there is also huge injustice, right? Because if we look at 10% of the highest income population, they are responsible for 48% of all emissions.
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So.
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And if we look at the bottom.
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50% of the world population, they are responsible for just 12% of emissions. So we have a lot of work to do.
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Anna Bjarde, managing director of operations at the World bank, told us this.
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H
I do love our new vision, which is end poverty on a livable planet. Why I love it is because at the end of the day, our core objective is, and core work at the World bank is about ending poverty. But the fact that we're adding on a livable planet means so much because it recognizes that we are about people and the planet, and the two go hand in hand. And the planet, a livable planet means, of course, climate change, environmental stewardship, but it also means things like health services and access to energy and clean water and clean air.
- [06:00]
A
Well, climate Change is also a catalyst for the movement of people. The climate crisis is a well known driver of migration and often exacerbates the impact of conflict and violence. The links between refugees and climate are something we discussed with Ralph Mazu, Assistant High Commissioner for Operations at unhcr. He told us about the record numbers of refugees around the world and some of the pressures contributing to this increase.
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D
What is new and what we are seeing more now is the role of climate change and the fact that climate change is having an impact on societies. You find societies and communities which no longer have access to water, no longer have access to arable land, and that is creating conflict. So in the past, the tendency was to focus on the immediate cause, which is the conflict, which results in people moving. But now more and more you can see that climate change is having a huge impact on communities in many, many different ways.
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A
We had the pleasure of hearing from Abdullah Khaimre, winner of the 2023 UNHCR Nansen Refugee Award. He grew up in the vast Dadaab refugee camp in Kenya. After fleeing Somalia as a small child with his family. Abdullahi told me about his passion for education and how he wants to try and get books into the hands of of every refugee child who needs one.
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D
As you know, the people from Somalia, mostly my community, are pastoralists. When it doesn't rain, they lose livestock and it is hard for them to feed their children and families. They flee to look for safety and, you know, better place. So the DAAB is a home to people who are seeking asylum. This is a safe haven for people who are fleeing the war, the climate change and the crisis in the region. Growing up in this school, I used to see journalists coming to the camps. I was inspired by that I ever wanted to tell the history of my own people. I believe the power of storytelling stories can change life. Information itself is aid. It can save people.
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A
The World Bank's Xavier Devicta, Co director of the 2023 World Development Report, emphasized that integrating refugee communities is key and a cost that countries can could benefit by investing in.
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I
So if you go to any refugee camp or refugee settlement, you're going to be struck by the number of children, young children. Obviously educating them is of primordial importance for themselves, for their countries of origin, because if they return, they will be actually the next generation of these countries of origin and for the hosting countries, because the last thing you want is to have a large, uneducated, marginalized young population. The question is, how do you do this now? For a long time, the international community has looked at a variety of solutions. One of them has been to support countries in including refugees in their national education system. And the benefit of that is simple. Refugees are going to get degrees that actually recognize on the labor market that they're first going to face. Refugees are going to receive the same education as the nationals. And so there won't be any, any kind of suspicion, jealousy or misperception or misfeeling that creates social tensions. So that's critical. Now, for a very long time, most countries have said, we're willing to do this, but there's a cost. And so the question is, who's paying for it? What we've done with some recent analytical work is actually to quantify these costs. And actually it's not that large. So if you take all refugees who live in low income countries, the poorest countries, and if you imagine that you put all their children in national education systems, the total cost is at about $300 million a year, which is large, but which is very small for the international community.
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And finally, we spoke to one entrepreneur who has been working with refugees in the large Kakuma camp in Kenya. She's been working with the IFC to help train people inside the camp with skills such as tailoring.
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Okay, thank you, Sarah. My name's Arnancy Karamburyongo. I am based in Trukana, Kakuma to be precise. I am a business lady, an entrepreneur. Professionally, I am a nurse. With time, I started training the refugees and host community on tailoring and dressmaking. And that is how I managed to grow very fast. There is a very good relationship between, between the host community and refugees. And I really enjoy working with all of them. I eventually managed to train so many. Some have established their businesses.
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A
Great to hear from Nancy there. And when we talk about skills and job creation, one question to ask when we think about a livable planet is what is a green job? This is an important topic as jobs in polluting industries are a continued stumbling block for a reduction in carbon emissions. So can they be replaced by roles in sectors such as green energy? Are there enough green jobs for the globe's youth? We heard from Manoj Sinha, the CEO of Husk Power. Husk Power provides energy services in off grid or poorly connected communities. Let's take a listen.
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J
The reason for starting this company emanated from the fact that when I was growing up in Bihar, which is a state with under 10 million people and about 70% did not have access to any power, back then, I experienced that problem firsthand. I did have access to some electricity while my first cousin and you know, uncles and aunts, they didn't have access to electricity. I saw how much opportunity I got in first 20, 25 years of growing up, while my cousins did not. Even today, they have not really even stepped into the middle class family of India. So it was a pretty stark difference of what opportunities can electricity bring if you have access to it versus not so. We have pioneered this method of decentralized electrification and distribution that focuses squarely on these rural people who are actually disproportionately adversely impacted by a lack of it. We didn't want to use fossil fuel because we wanted to be cognizant of climate change. And that's why we picked renewable energy, which was not in fashion, if you will, back in those days. We used biomass gasification system back then because solar PV was much, much, much more expensive than it is today.
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A
A key part of the puzzle when it comes to green jobs is inclusivity. Something I spoke to Anuba Shukla about. She is vice president of D2R at Husk Power Systems and is also a solar engineer.
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B
And you know, there's no bigger problem for the world to fix today than the climate problem. The world is not going to be a very cozy, hospitable place in the future unless we do something about it today. And I think young people realize this more than anybody else. Millennials and Gen Z have lived in a world riddled with problems that the previous generations never had to see.
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A
And speaking of younger generations and those yet to enter the workforce, perhaps, how important do you think green jobs will become?
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B
Renewable jobs are going to be a very important part of the growth story of any growing nation. The median age for India right now is 28 years, and the median age for Nigeria, another country that I work with, is 17 years. So there are a lot of people who are coming into new jobs, into the workforce. It's not just about jobs for them, it's also about meaningful jobs. And I personally feel that renewable energy and young job seekers are a very obvious match. Personally also, I feel that I found a lot of acceptance for me as a young woman in the solar space because since it's a relatively newer industry, legacy jobs aren't as old or require as much experience as they would in any other industries that have existed for generations.
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A
And speaking of inclusivity and women leading the way, we took a deep dive into the economics of gender equality. For our episode in March to coincide with International Women's Day, we had the pleasure of welcoming Geeta Gopinath, first Deputy Managing Director at the International Monetary Fund, into the studio in Washington D.C. she told us about the benefit for all when women prosper.
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F
We are staring at a growth projection which is one of the weakest we've seen in several decades. So we're looking at medium term growth of around 3% or so. So as countries, we need to find ways of boosting growth. And one surefire way of doing that is by bringing more women into the workforce. So if you look at labor force participation rates of women right now, that's 47%. For men, that number is 72%. So there is a big gap in terms of labor force participation between men and women and therefore just a simple arithmetic of bringing more women into the labor force can do wonders for growth. So if I were to give you a statistic, if you think of emerging market and developing economies, if they can increase their labor force participation rates by around 6 percentage points, then they can raise their GDP by about 8% over the next few years. These are sizable gains and absolutely critical.
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And we also got a snapshot of a female focused business in Rwanda putting inclusivity in at its heart.
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So my name is Maryse Mbonyumutua. So I've been in this business for the last 23 years, working mainly with factories in China and Southeast Asia for major retailers in Europe. I just launched also a new project which is a brand called Asanti, a new Pan African brand. So first of all we do have a free lunch for all the workers. Then we have set up a nursery since 2020. It's a pilot project for the moment, but where we welcome free of charge, completely free of charge, children of the factory workers. A breastfeeding program we introduced also free sanitary pads for women because we realized after one year we started working. One of the main reason for absenteeism was also women not having access to to hygienic products and they will feel embarrassed to come to work. Our human resource manager is a woman. The corporate Social Responsibility Pink Ubuntu program as well is also a woman. The fact that ourselves women mothers, we do have probably a level of understanding and empathy.
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A
Well, the relationship between prosperity and the natural environment is also a critical piece of the Liverpool Planet puzzle. How to create wealth sustainably while still preserving biodiversity in the natural world is a pertinent question. As our guest Valerie Hickey, Global Director of Environment at the World bank explained. She told us that ecosystems and economic growth are intrinsically linked.
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E
Traditionally in economics, we've had this paradigm of grow now, clean up later. And that has also meant growing deforest now, figure out how to reforest later. That's why we've ended up losing an area the size of Ethiopia in the last 20 years and in the 20 years before that, because we simply haven't valued nature. We haven't valued forests. And given that over one and a half billion people live within five kilometers of forests, 300 million people live within or on the boundary of tropical forests. That's a huge number. It's a huge number. So if we don't think about forest as an engine of economic development, we make a mistake. The other original sin that we have is that for too long we talked about conservation when it came to forestry. And we asked those 300 million people living in tropical forests, for example, to forego their development. It's okay for you to stay poor as long as the trees stand. And that's not okay for most people who live in rural areas. Forests and the ecosystem services they provide are the only path out of poverty. Think about land degradation. So 40% of people globally are suffering from land degradation. Places like rwanda, they're losing 25 tons of topsoil per hectare per year. This is in a country that routinely suffers from drought or flooding, that isn't always food secure, and yet you're losing all this amazing topsoil because the forests have been cut. Nature and forests are an engine of economic development. They are the path out of poverty for communities who live in and near forests.
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A
Christian Somper, managing director and leader of Nature Solutions at the Bezos Earth Fund, told me about how the fund is focusing on partnerships and indigenous solutions in many parts of the world. The only way this is going to work is by working with and empowering local communities to be stewards of nature.
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We do a lot of work with.
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Indigenous peoples and local communities around the whole issue of securing tenure rights. We just started last year building a portfolio of grants in the Brazilian Amazon. And one of the cornerstones of that effort is helping secure the rights of indigenous communities to their territories.
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We have very good evidence showing that.
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When these communities are empowered and they can really manage these territories, the rate of deforestation in these areas is substantially reduced. But what about working at the World bank over the last year? How have the goals of ending poverty on a livable planet informed the culture of the organization and what we do? I spoke to one young staff member about her reflections the past year at the World Bank Group.
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So my name is o' Neill Massamba. I work as an African Diaspora Fellow in Infrastructure in the west and Central Africa Transport Unit at the World bank and I work mostly on issues pertaining to regional connectivity, but also rural accessibility, transport, decarbonization and also finding solutions to sustainably finance infrastructure. And in addition to that which I call my day to day job, I'm also passionate about youth engagement. I've been doing so work with regard to youth engagement since I joined the bank. And so since 2020 I've been involved in different youth initiatives at the World bank, most recently as manager of the Youth Summit. I was manager of the Youth Summit for two years in 2022 and 20. So I am originally from the Republic of Congo, which is a country, a low income country that grapples with a lot of development challenges. And so ever since I was a kid, I always wanted to be in a position where one day I would be able to do a work that will allow me to make an impact not only in the Republic of Congo, but also in countries similar to the Republic of Congo and really allow me to use my skills and expertise to do so. And so that was with that objective in mind that I wanted to work at the World Bank.
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A
Let's talk a bit more about Livable Planet because obviously that's been something that.
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Over the past 18 months has been.
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A key priority for me. This mission statement is really key because it really reflects the World bank commitment to really eradicate poverty in all its form and ensure fair and just access to resources and opportunities to all while maintaining the plan itself and sustainable sustainability for future generations. So I really think that for me, ending Poverty on a Livable Planet really showcases a holistic approach to development that not only seeks to balance human well being with environmental consideration, but also really highlight the correlation and the correlation between the two and how the two are intertwined.
- [22:42]
A
Well, thank you so much to everyone who came on our race around the globe as we unpacked what it means to talk about a livable planet. We're having a podcast break for the rest of August, but we'll be back and refreshed in September with a new episode for you. If you'd like to get in touch, please do. We're at the development podcastorldbank.org and please do have a look at our back catalog. In the meantime, there's a lot to choose from from our recent episode on what artificial intelligence could mean for global development to a deep dive on how we support support the world's poorest countries. Thanks again for listening. We'll be back soon.