Searching for Soldier Dad: 4. The dads

Summary

World of Secrets – Season 12, Episode 4: "The Dads"

BBC | May 11, 2026
Host: Ivana Davidovich

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Episode Overview

In this episode of World of Secrets, journalist Ivana Davidovich continues the investigation into the children fathered by British soldiers in Kenya who then disappeared, leaving mothers and children without support. The narrative follows how DNA testing is finally connecting these children to their British fathers—and explores the emotional, legal, and practical complexities that follow.

This episode, titled "The Dads," focuses intently on the painstaking process of identifying the fathers, pursuing legal recognition in the UK, and the varied responses from the men involved. It blends stories of hope, disappointment, and the pursuit of justice, examining newly forged (or attempted) familial bonds after decades of absence.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Breakthrough for Yvonne

• [02:05] The episode opens with lawyer James Netto revealing to Yvonne and her grandmother Rose that DNA has linked Yvonne to living relatives in England.
• [02:57] The link is confirmed via an Ancestry database match with a woman in Devon; her cousin’s son, "Kieran" (pseudonym), is identified as a potential father.

Memorable Reactions:

"It could, could be that this man is related to you... there is a chance, we do not know 100% yet, but... this guy could be your father." – James Netto [03:47]

• The discovery prompts shock and disbelief for Yvonne and her grandma, given the family had long been told her father was dead.
• James stresses cautious optimism, explaining that further legal and DNA steps are needed for certainty.

"That's why I wish I could say to you, Yvonne, this guy is definitely your father. But there are so many questions in this whole story that don't add up." – James Netto [04:30]

2. The Search for Kieran

• [05:59] Despite Kieran having a public profile, all attempts to contact him fail. James uses various legal channels but cannot locate him personally.
• [09:50] James describes the increasingly complicated search:

"Missing. And we are looking for this chap all over the shop...every time we try and knock on his door, he's not there..." – James Netto [09:50]

• [10:29] James’ caseload grows to 12 live cases (“up to Case L”), all at different stages, each demanding significant resources.

3. Legal Hurdles and Precedents

• [08:47] The case is unprecedented, involving multiple paternity claims and large-scale DNA testing tied specifically to British Army service in Kenya.

"Nothing like this has ever been done before...all of them having this common thread, and the common thread is that all of them are in the British Army." – James Netto [09:21]

• The legal end goal is for these men to be recognized on birth certificates, paving the way for British citizenship for their children and potential child maintenance.

4. A Different Kind of Reunion: Kathy and Her Dad Phil

• [12:25] Kathy has a rapid and positive response from her father Phil, who immediately accepts paternity and reaches out before the lawyer can even speak to her.
• Kathy is emotionally conflicted—happy for answers, but critical of her father’s long silence and attempts at justification.

"You can't just tell me that you forgot, and then all of a sudden... ‘oh, shit, I did have a family.’ If that was not the case, you'd still be quiet." – Kathy [13:14]

• Phil blames mental health struggles post-army and a stolen phone for his disappearance:

"You know, the phone got stolen, therefore all the details went. The plan just diminished from there." – Phil [20:26]

• Kathy’s desire: "I just want to feel that, you know, paternal love that I've never gotten. Like, you know, just the normal things that you expect from a dad." – Kathy [13:54]

5. Phil's Perspective and Emotional Reckoning

• The episode features an extended, honest interview with Phil:

Life After the Army

"I was actually really happy this happened." – Phil [18:01]
"I've been homeless before... I joined the army because I had no job prospects." – Phil [17:24]

On Maggie (Kathy’s Mum):

"She was beautiful. Really beautiful. Absolutely lovely person...I still love her, you know." – Phil [18:14 & 18:38]

Why Didn’t He Reconnect?

• Blames losing contact info, struggles with dyslexia, low confidence, and logistical obstacles:

"It's going to Nairobi would be no problem. It's getting to Nunuki would be the problem because I don't know how to get there because I'm dyslexic..." – Phil [20:50]

• Overlooked Facebook messages from Kathy and Maggie, with Phil later discovering he had unwittingly blocked them.

Mental Health and Institutionalisation:

"I've never been any good at organizing anything...when you come out of the army, there's no one there to really help you...it's difficult outside." – Phil [24:09]

Moving Forward

"All I can do is to do the best that I can." – Phil [25:06]
"If she ends up hating me, okay, that's understandable. But unfortunately, I'm still the dad and I still do everything I can for her." – Phil [27:03]

6. Courtroom Milestone

• [28:40] The day arrives for court in the Royal Court of Justice, aiming for formal legal recognition of seven fathers. The judge accepts the DNA evidence.
• [31:02] Jubilant reaction from James:

"I'm so happy for these kids. Look at seven. Sorry, I'm bringing you to tears. It's crazy." – James Netto [31:02]

• For the families, this is a pivotal moment—enabling citizenship applications and maintenance claims.
• James reflects on the fathers:

"These men, they're doing the right thing. They're good guys deep down. I hope it lasts. I really hope it lasts. I think it will." – James Netto [31:23]

7. Remaining Mysteries and Next Steps

• [32:01] Yvonne’s father, Kieran, remains missing.
• The episode closes with a teaser for the next installment, promising a breakthrough in the search for Kieran and discussions with a senior army officer in the UK.

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Notable Quotes

• “How can this man be back from the dead?” – Grandma Rose, paraphrased by Ivana Davidovich [04:27]
• "It's very, very exciting... We’re not judging them for what they may have done five, 10, 15, 20, 30 years ago. It’s what they do when they find out about this information now..." – James Netto [10:29]
• "It’s not too late. I mean, I am still young, but he has missed a lot in my life..." – Kathy [14:14]
• "Could a lost phone really be the reason for abandoning your child? ...Phil has also suffered. In some ways, he too is a victim..." – Ivana Davidovich [27:28]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Description | Timestamp | |----------------------|----------------------------------------------------|---------------| | The DNA breakthrough | Yvonne is told of possible living father | 02:05–05:20 | | Lawyer’s legal strategy | Legal plan for DNA testing and court pressure | 05:20–06:45 | | The search for Kieran | Frustration & procedural hurdles finding Kieran | 07:00–10:15 | | Kathy & Phil’s story | Kathy’s emotional response, Phil’s interview | 12:25–27:28 | | Court milestone | Judge confirms seven paternity cases | 28:39–31:41 | | Episode conclusion | Reflections and preview for next installment | 31:41–end |

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Tone and Language

• Investigative, empathetic, and driven by the voices of the children and fathers.
• The episode balances journalistic scrutiny of the fathers' stories with a recognition of broader systemic and personal hardships.
• There is a persistent note of hope and a sense of justice being sought both for the children and, in a way, the fathers.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Heard the Episode

This episode is a moving deep-dive into the messy, human side of uncovering decades-old secrets: children of British soldiers in Kenya, left without fathers, are now being reconnected through the concerted efforts of lawyers, journalists, and DNA science. The responses from the fathers swing from evasiveness and disappearance to elation and guilt, revealing the tangled emotions at the intersection of family and history. The legal battle is innovative—and precedent-setting—as the fight continues not just for personal reconciliation but for citizenship and justice on both sides of the world.

Transcript

[BBC Podcast Host]

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[James Netto (Lawyer)]

Hello. Hi hi. Hi Royce, very nice to see you. Hi there.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

I'm back in lawyer James Netto's office overlooking St. Paul's Cathedral and James seems nervous.

[James Netto (Lawyer)]

So Yvonne, it's really good to see you again.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Yvonne and her grandma Rose pop up on the screen. When we first met in their village, 17 year old Yvonne told us that both her parents were dead. According to her grandmother, back when Yvonne was very young, British soldiers passed on a message to the family that Yvonne's father had died. For months James has been looking for a lead in Yvonne's case. What he's found has the potential to change her life and this is the moment he's going to tell her.

[James Netto (Lawyer)]

And we might have some information for you about living relatives in England.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

After they took Yvonne's DNA sample, it was uploaded to Ancestry's database and they Found a match. A woman living in Devon in the south of England. This is exactly what Yvonne hoped might happen. An extended family member in the uk.

[James Netto (Lawyer)]

So I wrote to her and I said to her, do you have anyone in your family who was in Kenya around the time of your birth or just before your birth in 2007? And I didn't hear back for a few weeks. And then all of a sudden I got a call in my office.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

It was Yvonne's relative calling back. She told James there was only one person in her family who had any involvement in the army. The son of her cousin. This man is alive and well, living somewhere in the uk.

[James Netto (Lawyer)]

It could, could be that this man is related to you and specifically, there is a chance, we do not know 100% yet, but there is a chance that this guy could be your father.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

I watch Yvonne and her Grandma Rose on a big screen where the zoom call is projected. Yvonne's eyebrows shoot up and her eyes widen. Kelvin, the Kenyan lawyer, is sat next to them. There's a few seconds delay as he quickly translates into Swahili for Grandma Rose. Although we have no common language, her face says it all. Shock, surprise, disbelief.

[James Netto (Lawyer)]

She's asking, how has they now come back alive?

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

How can this man be back from the dead?

[James Netto (Lawyer)]

I have that question as well. I don't know. That's why I wish I could say to you, Yvonne, this guy is definitely your father. But there are so many questions in this whole story that don't add up correctly.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Yvonne sits listening to all of this in stunned silence.

[James Netto (Lawyer)]

I know it's a lot to take in. How do you feel?

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Nervous.

[James Netto (Lawyer)]

Don't feel nervous. I mean, it's exciting, but we need to. We need to go very carefully.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Just six months ago, we had no information about this man. No name, no address, nothing. The only thing we knew was that he worked for the British military in Kenya at the time of Yvonne's conception. Without this DNA detective work, he would never have been found.

[James Netto (Lawyer)]

So I think our next step is to get this guy, oblige this guy to come to court and see what he's got to say and for him to provide a DNA sample specifically. That's the only scientific way we can get 100% confirmation that he is your father or not. It's pointing in a good direction, I think.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

After the call ends, we catch up with Yvonne. She speaks calmly, but the shock on her face tells a different story.

[Yvonne / Kathy (Interviewees)]

I think I'm super excited.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Can't believe I'm going to be a daddy's girl. Yeah. Yeah.

[Yvonne / Kathy (Interviewees)]

That's why I'll give him another chance.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

This desire of Yvonne's to be, as she calls it, a daddy's girl feels so innocent and generous to this man who for nearly two decades may have allowed his daughter to believe he was dead. Is it possible that Yvonne might get the father she so badly wants? This is world of secrets season 12 searching for soldier dad a BBC world service investigation. I'm ivana davidovich, a BBC journalist. Episode 4 the dads. The DNA samples taken in Nanyuki in Kenya have started to offer answers to questions that have lingered for decades. The children with missing fathers, British soldiers who left Kenya and lost contact, are beginning to be identified. By the summer of 2024, DNA analysis has identified 13 possible fathers. I spent days scouring the Internet trying to find more information about men. Some have no online presence at all. But one is easy to find. Once we have a name for Yvonne's possible dad, a quick Google search finds him. To maintain his privacy, we've given him a pseudonym, Kieran. He's in his 40s, with thick brown hair and a wide smile. He has a public profile and has had several businesses. But there's a complication. Kieran has a brother and brothers, of course, share a lot of their DNA. So without knowing more, either of them could technically be Yvonne's dad. But it's only Kieran who was in the army and only Kieran who has a link to Kenya in 2007 when Yvonne was conceived. And he's certainly not trying to hide. I think at this point that he should be easy to contact, but I'm about to be proved very wrong. Kieran doesn't reply to any messages through social media or any emails. As a lawyer, James has more tools at his disposal than we do. He goes through the courts and manages to get several addresses for Kieran from government departments and the Ministry of Defence. He writes to him and we wait for a response. Meanwhile, James is preparing the legal case.

[James Netto (Lawyer)]

It's sort of taken over my life in the last few weeks.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

It will be heard by the highest judge in the family court.

[James Netto (Lawyer)]

I think he's taking it exceptionally seriously

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

and James will try to convince him to accept the evidence he presents, including from the DNA testing, and to confirm the paternity of each of these fathers in court.

[James Netto (Lawyer)]

We want to get these cases into court as soon as possible because the sooner they go into court, the sooner they get resolved. The sooner they get resolved, the sooner, the quicker it is for these families in Kenya to actually get some sort of outcome.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

If this happens, the fathers will be added to the birth certificates, opening the door to their offspring being granted British citizenship. And there's never been a case like it.

[James Netto (Lawyer)]

Nothing like this has ever been done before where you're engaging DNA testing on such a scale, cases on such a scale, all heard at one time and all of them having this common thread, and the common thread is that all of them are in the British Army.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Months pass since we first tried to contact Kieran and we've heard nothing. In September, three months after the first attempt to contact him, the producer Josephine catches up with James for an update. And what about Yvonne's dad?

[James Netto (Lawyer)]

Missing. And we are looking for this chap all over the shop and every time we try and knock on his door, he's not there or he's somewhere else, or he's not home, or a mate is home, but he's not. And I don't know exactly where he is, but we're narrowing down on him. It might not be him, we just don't know where he is. So the hunt continues for him.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

James needs to prove that Kieran has received the legal documents before the court case can proceed. But every door the court bailiffs knock on, he's not there. And James caseload is growing by the day.

[James Netto (Lawyer)]

Each case has a case letter, so Yvonne is case A. And at the moment, we're up to case L. I'm going to run out of letters. That's least of our worries. I'm just not sure how we're going to stay on top of all of them. It's very, very exciting. I mean, we can only go so far. The way we're looking at it, we're not judging them for what they may have done five, 10, 15, 20, 30 years ago. It's what they do when they find out about this information now in 2025, and whether they'll actually embrace their kids. I've never had anything like this. The courts have never had anything like this, that's for sure.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

The weeks roll by and I called James for an update.

[James Netto (Lawyer)]

So they live attended the property yesterday. No response. He'll be trying again, hopefully later today or later tomorrow. I'll update you again after that visit. Let me email him right now.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

James calls later to let us know again there was no response. I also send him messages, but we hear nothing. It feels like he doesn't want to be found. But elsewhere, there's a reaction from another father that is very different. That's so nice. It's nice to hear you. And the Line is really clear, which is amazing, right? Yeah. It's so nice to hear. Sorry. James tells me there's been a development in Kathy's case, so I give her a call with the latest. I know that James has shared some information with you. Kathy's mum was in a relationship with her dad, Phil. He wrote her love letters and proposed to her publicly in Nairobi airport. But when Kathy was a baby, he went on deployment and never returned. In her teenage years, Kathy messaged her dad on Facebook, telling him all about her life, but never received a reply.

[Yvonne / Kathy (Interviewees)]

He told me that my dad accepted being my parent, and my dad actually messaged me before James did.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

James wrote to Kathy's dad and heard back within days. He accepted that he is her father immediately. He didn't even request a DNA test through the courts to confirm. Kathy tells me that he reached out so quickly to her mum through Facebook that it was even before James had a chance to speak to her.

[Yvonne / Kathy (Interviewees)]

I'm having mixed emotions here, but it's better than not knowing anything, to be honest. He said he wanted to call me, but I keep deflecting.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Why is that?

[Yvonne / Kathy (Interviewees)]

It's too much to take in all at once.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

They've been messaging for a couple of days.

[Yvonne / Kathy (Interviewees)]

I mean, you can't just tell me that you forgot, and then all of a sudden, just because the law has pushed you aside, you decide, oh, shit, I did have a family. If that was not the case, you'd still be quiet. And then blaming it on the mental illness.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Right, okay. So is that what he's saying to you? His bad mental health was at play?

[Yvonne / Kathy (Interviewees)]

Yeah. He says after the army, his mental health declined. And I don't want to be hard on him because he is still my dad, but there's still, like, a big gap that he needs to account for.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

What do you want to feel and see from him going forward?

[Yvonne / Kathy (Interviewees)]

Well, I just want to feel that, you know, paternal love that I've never gotten. Like, you know, just the normal things that you expect from a dad. I feel like he just ignored me for 19 years, but I still need him in my own way.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

So it's not too late, is it?

[Yvonne / Kathy (Interviewees)]

It's not too late. I mean, I am still young, but he has missed a lot in my life, reaching adulthood, going through a lot of phases, a lot of complications, joy, sadness, depression and all that. He's missed all that. And my accomplishments as well. He's missed all that.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Phil has a lot of questions to answer. Where did he go? Why didn't he reply to all those messages from Maggie and Kathy. Over the years, I've heard so much about this man. I want to talk to him. I reach out. I say the same thing as I do to all of the fathers I contact, that I just want to talk, hear his side of the story, that it can be off the record. Most of the other fathers reply with a firm no or don't reply at all. So when I send the message to Phil, I'm not expecting much, to be honest. I mean, I wasn't. Who knows? I didn't even know whether you'd be found and what would happen. But what happens next will take me by surprise. With Verbo care, help is always ready before, during and after your stay. We've planned for the plot twists so support is always available because a great trip starts with peace of mind. Britbox has the best of British tv period.

[Yvonne / Kathy (Interviewees)]

Let's get started.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

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[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

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[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

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[James Netto (Lawyer)]

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[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

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[BBC Podcast Host]

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[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

We're sitting outside a cafe. Across from me is a man in his 50s. He's balding, chatty. Just explain a bit what your life looks like now. Where do you live? Where do you work?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

Yeah, I work doing security and I'm living in a shared house with another family and basically I'm staying there. Since I've been there, I've had a couple of jobs.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

What's it like living in a shared house with a family at your age?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

Feels like the army. It really does.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

This is Phil, Kathy's dad, Maggie's ex fiance, the man behind all those love letters.

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

I've been homeless before, before I joined the army because I had no job prospects whatsoever. You know, it's like I've got to do something. But you couldn't find a job, you know.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

That's why you joined the army?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

Yeah, that's the reason why I joined the army, you know I loved it. I really did. Just having a laugh. 24 7.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

He tells me that when he got the letter from James, the lawyer, saying Kathy might be his daughter, he was delighted. After hearing all Maggie and Kathy's attempts to contact him over the years, the calls, the Facebook messages, I thought he might be more reluctant.

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

Very happy. Surprise. Yeah.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

No stress, no drama, no fear. No. Oh, my God.

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

I was actually really happy this happened.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

I ask what he remembers about Maggie. It's been 19 years. You've seen her?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

Yeah.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Do you remember her?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

I do, I do, yeah.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

What is your memory of her?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

She was beautiful. Really beautiful. Absolutely lovely person. You know, I had a photograph of when we were at the pool table, and I had that for ages. The pool table was in the middle and she was sitting on the side. She was stunning. Really stunning. Yeah. Seriously, I was, all my life, well happy.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Did you ever think about her?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

Maggie? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Were you in love?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

Yeah, I still love her, you know. I mean, I know it's been a long time, but it's like. Yeah, it's. I don't know, we just clicked. You know what I mean? It's. It was just not natural with her. I don't know. I just felt really nice. It's like being around her. She's just such a nice person.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Were you planning a future at the time?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

Yes. The whole idea was to get. This is even before Maggie was pregnant. Yeah. We sort of bring her over, basically. She could live there and.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Do you mean, like, get married?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Where were you when she told you she was pregnant?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

Hounslow. Yeah, Hounslow.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

So London.

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

I used to go down to the local shops and you could buy international cards.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

I remember those.

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

Yeah, yeah. And I used to call her up every Friday, you know, she, like, told me. I was like, wow, that's awesome.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

And then what happened afterwards?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

I went back to Africa, met up with Catherine. She was a baby at the time. Yeah. We went off and got her papers done and everything.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Tell me about your feelings when you held her.

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

I was very happy. It was like, oh, no, it's hard to explain, you know, I mean, it's like the joy that you feel by holding another life in your hands that you've created.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

At that time, what did you think was going to. To happen?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

I was hoping that I could get across to England as quickly as possible. You know what I mean? So, yeah, I was saving my money up to get her across with Maggie.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Phil talks so warmly about their love story, just like Maggie did. She said it was like Romeo and Juliet. So what I need to understand is how things went from this to him disappearing for 18 years. Phil says it all started when his mobile phone was stolen.

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

You know, the phone got stolen, therefore all the details went. You know, the. The plan just diminished from there.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

He says that all his contacts, including Maggie's number, were gone. Do you think you could have done certain things better? Like for. For example, when your phone was stolen at some point after just flown to Nairobi and gone and find.

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

I thought about that, but the fact of the matter is it's. It's going to Nairobi would be no problem. It's getting to Nunuki would be the problem because I don't know how to get there because I'm dyslexic and I've got problems of learning and things like that. I'm just thinking, well, I wouldn't have enough money. They'll just charge me like a silly amount and I'll just be stuck out there.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Did you try to reach out to somebody in Batuk and say, I kind of need some assistance? I have a child now in the region. Can you help me? Did you try to do something like that? Potentially, if you found it hard to go yourself?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

It's like. It's embarrassing. It was like, I tried to ask a few people, so we'll know what it is. Go out there. Well, I don't know how to get to that.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

So how did you feel then? Like, talk me through that, that. So you. You had your phone stolen, you felt like you couldn't go back, and you felt like you couldn't really ask for help for somebody to locate them locally. So you knew you had this woman you were in love with. You say you. You knew you had a child who was under the age of one. You must have been absolutely distraught. Or were you?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

Yeah.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Were you?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

Yeah. So, you know, so I'm not very good at things like that. You know, it's the army controls you, what you can do, where to go and things like that.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

When we met Margaret, she was showing us messages that she was sending you once Facebook started and she found you and she was sending pictures of Kathy and she never got a reply.

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

Yeah.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

What happened there?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

I didn't know it was her. I didn't see those messages. I've got a lot of messages come on my Facebook. I got one last week from Africa. I don't know who it is. And I get so many people adding me on Facebook who. I don't know who they are. I just blocked them all. And when I Had the paperwork, realizing she has been trying to get in touch with me. I looked through the block list and she was on there. I didn't realize it was her.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Sitting here, I can't help but think about all those desperate messages that Kathy and Maggie sent Phil over the years. So when you saw the photos of that little girl, you thought, that's just some random girl.

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

I didn't know.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

You didn't think.

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

Didn't even open it, you know, So I just. Everything just got blocked. I wasn't in a very good place either, you know, because I just come back from a really nasty part of my life. Been homeless, and then got homeless again. Within a month, I got made homeless like three times. And it was like it was getting too much for me, so I had to go down to the mental health clinic. I got put on medication because I wasn't sleeping at all. I slept like four or five days. And it's like my brain doesn't stop. It just keeps on ticking over, and it's like I just needed to sleep and I couldn't, you know?

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

After he left Kenya, Phil was deployed in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Kosovo. It's clear that Phil's life has not been easy. He's had his own struggles. If someone said to you, I hear your story, I know it's hard leaving the army, you've had mental health problems, but all I can hear is excuses. Yeah. What would you say to that?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

Nothing to say. You know, I've never been any good at organizing anything. You know, I mean, it's like it's always been done for me. You know what I mean? It's like when you go through that line, it's all. When people come out of prison, that's the reason why they go back to prison. Because it's like when you come out of the army, it's like there's no one there to really help you. You're used to being. Having so many people around you. It's difficult outside, especially if you been in for so long and you've got no one to get in touch with.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

When you were at this really low moment, homeless and really struggling, were you thinking about Kathy at all?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

I was just thinking about the one day at a time. That's all I could do. I was just trying to survive at the time.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Do you think that the army can do more to help people that it employs for over a decade, like it was in your case?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

Yeah, I think they should do, yeah.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

What do you want now, Phil? Do you want to be a dad? Do you want a chance to be a dad?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I've had this conversation with Kathy and I told her so it doesn't matter what I do. I never make up for the amount of time that I've lost with her. But all I can do is to do the best that I can.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

And since I spoke on the phone to Kathy, the two of them have been in more contact. They've even had a three hour phone call. Was Kathy angry with you?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

I did say to her in the first message that I sent to her, I do understand if you're angry. And she says yes, but the three hour conversation that we had, it was like we've. We've never been apart. That's what I liked about it. We just got on so well.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

He tells me he's also spoken with Maggie. Tell me about the first time you heard her voice After 19 years.

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

Wow. So I'll just picture in front of me like she used to look, you know, it's weird, you know, it's hard to explain. I'm just so happy that I got back in touch with her and I told her. It's like big. I'm not going through that again. At the moment I'm trying to save up enough money to send over.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

How do you feel about Maggie now?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

Hopefully we're gonna patch things up.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Do you think?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

I hope so. Be nice.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

I wasn't expecting to hear this. That Phil has hopes that him and ex fiance Maggie might get back together after all these years. Is that just because you've been a bit lonely all these years or do you genuinely think this is a chance?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

Yeah, there is a chance. You know, I mean, because obviously we're a child together. It's like, hopefully we get on still. Yeah. I mean, we can rekindle that fire that we had, but if it doesn't work, it doesn't mean that we can't not keep in touch much. Yeah, I mean, I still send her over money, you know, I mean, I still help her out when she needs it.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

You feel like you've been given like a second chance at life?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

Yeah, very much so. You know, I'm just happy that it's happened.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

What happens if ultimately Kathy doesn't accept you easily, what you're gonna do?

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

I'm still her father and I can't change that, you know, I mean, if she ends up hating me, okay, that's understandable. But unfortunately, I'm still the dad and I still do everything I can for her.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

So you're not going to give Up. No again.

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

No.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Someone might say no.

[Phil (Kathy's Dad)]

No way.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

As we say goodbye to Phil, I'm left with more questions. Could a lost phone really be the reason for abandoning your child? The one you held when she was seven months old? But the way he speaks about Maggie, the way he looks when he mentions her, I can tell his feelings for her were real. Phil has also suffered. In some ways, he too is a victim of poor mental health, of being institutionalised after following orders for almost two decades. I wonder how different his life might have been if he had followed through with his plan to bring Maggie and baby Kathy to the UK all those years ago. I can imagine that she would have made a success of life in the uk, perhaps opened her own business and worked to establish herself here. It's impossible to say. But maybe Phil's life would also have been more stable, richer and happier with Maggie and Kathy by his side.

[James Netto (Lawyer)]

Good morning.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

And a big morning.

[Yvonne / Kathy (Interviewees)]

It is.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

It is indeed great. Perfect. Just a few days after speaking to Phil, we meet James outside the Royal Court of Justice, an imposing Gothic Victorian building in the heart of London. It's the biggest day of the legal case so far. Today James will try to persuade the judge to confirm the paternity of seven of the fathers. Among them are Kathy's dad, Phil and Peter's father that he had a video call with. Good morning. We walk through the cathedral like entrance and head towards the Family Court. The usual cases that are dealt with here are things like divorce settlements and child custody. We sit on a bench outside the courtroom, waiting for a sign to enter. James and his colleagues are catching up in hushed tones. It's time to begin and we're ushered inside. We can't record, so we turn off our microphones. We sit alongside some other journalists on a narrow bench. As we wait for the judge, I take in the grandeur of the courtroom with its wood paneling and arched ceiling. Even though they can't be here for the women and children in Nanyuki to have access to justice here, for their case to be heard by the highest Family Court judge in the country feels very significant. The judge readily accepts the DNA evidence presented to him by James and his cousin colleagues. He reads through the names of the successful applicants. There are seven names on the list. Among them are Kathy and Peter. Their fathers are confirmed in the eyes of the law. There are still eight cases outstanding and a future court date is scheduled. It's over in a flash, but it's a moment which will define the future of these seven people. Some will now begin their applications for British citizenship. And for those under 18, their mothers can now also demand child maintenance.

[James Netto (Lawyer)]

Relax, it was a very good day. Of course.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Outside, James is excitedly waving his folder of case files.

[James Netto (Lawyer)]

I'm so happy for these kids. Look at seven. Sorry, I'm bringing you to ear. It's crazy.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Having spent months tracking these men down and having received many positive responses, even witnessed reunions, this now feels like an opportunity for new beginnings.

[James Netto (Lawyer)]

These men, they're doing the right thing. They're good guys deep down. I hope it lasts. I really hope it lasts. I think it will. I'd love to see what happens in the few months time.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Do you feel like the clients are accepting fully of some of the reasoning that the fathers are giving for not being in touch?

[James Netto (Lawyer)]

There's been a common theme that some of these men said, oh, I had no idea. I thought when I got these weird messages it was spam or it was a bot or it was fake and maybe there's some truth in that, there's a ring of truth in it. But look, let's not focus on that. Let's focus on what's going forward. Getting these declarations, it's like nothing else ever.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

But Yvonne's father, Kieran is still nowhere to be seen. And one's still missing, Right?

[James Netto (Lawyer)]

One is still missing. He's got to be somewhere.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

Coming up next time, we go to a military barracks in the southwest of England to put our questions to a senior army officer and we have a breakthrough in the search for Yvonne's dad. When I speak to a long lost relative.

[Yvonne / Kathy (Interviewees)]

Well, the thing is I'm kind of a bit.

[Ivana Davidovich (BBC Journalist)]

I obviously don't want to dump anybody in it, but in my heart of hearts, I'm quite convinced that's next time on World of Secrets. This has been episode 4 or 5 of season 12 of World of Secrets Searching for Soldier dad from the BBC World Service. World of Secrets Searching for Soldier dad is a long form audio production for the BBC World Service. It's presented by me, Ivana Davidovich. The series is produced and written by Josephine Cassili. The series editor is Matt Willis. Our script advisor is Lucy Proctor. Sound design and mix by Tom Brignall. We would like as many people as possible to hear our investigations so please leave a rating and a review and do tell others about World of Secrets.

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