The Darkest Web: 6. My brother, the abuser

Summary

World of Secrets (BBC)

Season 11: The Darkest Web

Episode 6: My Brother, the Abuser

Date: March 23, 2026

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Overview

The gripping final episode of "The Darkest Web" investigates the case of Staton Grubert, an American man secretly acting as a senior administrator for a notorious child sexual abuse site on the dark web. The episode offers a rare inside view of the multi-country law enforcement operation to apprehend Grubert, intertwines the emotional fallout within his family—especially through the perspective of his sister Elisa, who is also a survivor of his abuse—and closes with reflections from another survivor, Lucy, whose life was changed thanks to similar investigative efforts. Through personal testimony and behind-the-scenes law enforcement strategy, the episode explores the consequences, moral dilemmas, and aftermath that ripple through families and society.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. International Cooperation Uncovers a Predator

[01:30–05:22]

• Investigation begins in Sweden, where a police officer analyzing abuse material recognizes a username linked to US suspect Staton Grubert.
• Swedish authorities inform US Homeland Security Special Agent Greg Squire, accelerating the case due to its urgency.
• Quote:

  “They saw a name, and thankfully for the Swedish police officer, she recognized that name and so immediately reached out ... We got this bit of information here, we think it's this bad guy, those types of information, like they really hit the fast forward button.”
  —Special Agent Greg Squire [02:25, 03:22]

2. Identifying and Locating Staton Grubert

[05:22–08:25]

• Grubert, appearing “normal” on the outside, is actually a key administrator in a dark web network devoted to child sexual abuse images.

  “Gruber was an important person...an important player in the community.”
  —Special Agent Greg Squire [05:05]

• He trusts the Swedish offender, sharing deeply personal information, including that his wife is pregnant, with plans to abuse the child.

3. High-Stakes Tactical Planning

[06:41–13:07]

• Squire and the team plan an elaborate nighttime raid on Grubert's isolated Texas trailer to avoid any warning or destruction of evidence:
  • Surveillance in rural Texas is difficult due to lack of concealment opportunities.
  • Concerns over possible armed resistance; Grubert had two loaded handguns at his desk.
• Quote:

  “It would have almost guaranteed the destruction of evidence as well as create a potential for ... a standoff with police.”
  —Special Agent Greg Squire [08:33]

• The operation involves about 30 officers from multiple directions, with an undercover Australian officer keeping Grubert engaged online until the very last moment.

4. The Arrest and Interrogation

[13:14–22:26]

• Grubert’s arrest is dramatic; he tries to reach for his gun before being subdued.
• During questioning, Grubert initially denies all involvement:

  “I've never touched a child, period.”
  —Staton Grubert [15:22]

• Squire tries several interrogation tactics, including emotional and moral appeals, to persuade Grubert to cooperate by identifying other victims or abusers:

  “What if you stop a child from being abused tonight?”
  —Special Agent Greg Squire [21:52]

5. Family Fallout — Elisa’s Story

[22:33–30:34]

• Grubert's sister Elisa describes the shockwave in the family when his arrest becomes known. She immediately suspects the truth, given her own past abuse at Staton's hands.

• She struggles to get information from her mother and ultimately confronts her sister-in-law’s family for legal documents.

• Elisa contacts Agent Squire to share her own abuse history, worried that he might be swayed by Staton's manipulativeness.

• She sends an email to her entire extended family detailing the truth, but receives almost no response, as many family members refuse to process the gravity of Staton's crimes. Her mother invents a narrative casting Staton as a victim.

  “It's worse than anybody could imagine. The average person doesn't dream this stuff up ... I just wanted people to understand.”
  —Elisa [28:47]

6. The Trial and Confrontation

[30:34–32:35]

• At Grubert’s federal trial for advertising child sexual abuse material, Elisa reads her victim impact statement confronting her brother directly:

  “While Stayton doesn't have a previous criminal record, on paper, he does have a lifelong track record of inappropriate behavior towards children.”
  —Elisa [31:25]

• Staton pleads guilty and is sentenced to 15 years in prison. Elisa testifies to the lasting impact and her conviction that he is a danger to children.

  “He doesn't deserve to live in a world with innocent children. And forever isn't long enough for his sentence.”
  —Elisa [32:04]

7. Long-term Consequences, Survival, and Hope

[33:11–37:50]

• The episode closes with a conversation between Special Agent Squire and Lucy, victim of another case he investigated. Lucy discusses the enduring trauma of abuse and the importance of having trustworthy adults and resources for survivors.
• Lucy reflects on the shame, confusion, and lack of awareness that compounded her suffering:

  “If I had known what to expect ... and being educated on how this could affect my relationships and intimacy would have made ... so much less shame. And shame is — shouldn't have been put on me. No, it wasn't my fault.”
  —Lucy [36:57]

• Squire emphasizes the need for all adults—therapists, teachers, parents—to spend “just a little more time” educating and protecting children.

  “Five minutes of uncomfortable conversation could save years ... of lifelong trauma.”
  —Special Agent Greg Squire [36:38]

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On the urgency and danger of the operation:

  “If you visualize two trailers sort of in the middle of a field ... we had three teams entering from three different directions.”
  —Squire [09:47]

• On family denial:

  “Instead, she finds out her mum has invented an alternative narrative telling people her son is a victim.”
  —Sam Paranti [30:08]

• On survivor advocacy:

  “You say you're not an educator, but ... this is education. This could change somebody ... every bit of it’s worth it.”
  —Greg Squire [36:02]

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Important Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | Description | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:30 | Trigger warning and Swedish police discovery | Swedish authorities spot US suspect, international tip-off | | 05:22 | Grubert’s online life revealed | Details on his role in the dark web community | | 06:41 | Operation planning | Risks of armed resistance, planning a nighttime raid | | 09:47 | Raid execution | Multi-team approach and tactical entry | | 15:22 | Interrogation begins | Grubert denies all involvement | | 22:33 | Family learns of arrest, Elisa’s reaction | Emotional fallout, family denial, Elisa's resolve | | 28:47 | Elisa’s family email | Shares hard evidence with the family, receives silence | | 31:25 | Elisa’s victim impact statement at trial | Confronts Staton in court | | 33:11 | Conversation with Lucy | Survivor reflection and thoughts on healing | | 36:02 | Squire advocates for more education and awareness | Importance of uncomfortable but crucial conversations |

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Tone & Narrative

The episode balances meticulous law enforcement procedure with deeply personal survivor narratives. Law enforcement commentary is factual and relentless; survivor accounts are raw, emotional, and direct, revealing family rifts and the lasting impact of abuse. The tone is unflinching, determined not to look away from hard truths, intent on both honoring survivors and ensuring justice.

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Summary

“My Brother, the Abuser” lays bare both the methodical investigation required to track predators on the dark web and the shattering personal cost to the families involved. It confronts denial, the silence of bystanders, and the ongoing journey to healing with unyielding clarity. The episode ends with hope—survivors like Lucy advocating that the right support and a willingness to listen can help others escape isolation and shame.

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Content warning: This episode discusses graphic and disturbing child sexual abuse. Listener discretion is strongly advised.

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Transcript

[Podcast Narrator / Advertiser]

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[World of Secrets Host / Narrator]

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[World of Secrets Host / Narrator]

You're about to listen to the final episode of the Darkest Web. Keep listening at the end to find out more about the next World of Secrets investigations.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

Hello, It's Sam. Just a warning before we start. This episode contains references to child and infant sexual abuse in Sweden. An undercover police officer is staring at her screen. She's examining the evidence which will be used to convict a Swedish man who has been sexually abusing his three year old niece. The man has recorded videos of his abuse which he shared on the Dark Web. The investigator is carefully analyzing the evidence when she spots something. A name that she recognizes and that she thinks belongs to a paedophile in America. So she picks up the phone and calls her US counterpart, Special Agent Greg Squire at the Department for Homeland Security.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

They saw a name and thankfully for the Swedish police officer, she recognized that name and so immediately reached out and said, hey, I think we got something here.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

She spotted an important figure in the vast online world of child sexual exploitation. It's Staton Grubert, Elise's older brother, who she says abused her when they were both children living in rural Texas. It seems he's taken his abuse online. This is world of secrets season 11 the darkest web a BBC world service investigation. I'm sam paranti. Episode 6 my brother the abuser.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

When they reached out to me and had said, hey, listen, we got this bit of information here, we think it's, it's this bad guy, those types of information, like they really hit the fast forward Button because security and time becomes extremely important and things need to move pretty expeditiously.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

When someone in the dark web child sexual abuse community is arrested, word travels fast.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

This Swedish guy having been arrested, we of course suspected that Gruber would have known that, or at least suspected it. He knew that they had shared information that could lead to his identity. And what Gruber had been doing with the Swede was, you know, they were just fawning over the abuse of this three year old.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

To the outside world, Staton Gruber appears normal. He has a pretty standard job and no criminal record.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

I think he was working at, like some sort of local hotel or resort, you know, not doing a job of any special substance or skill set or anything like that. He wasn't in charge of it or anything like that. It was just kind of a very average employment.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

But in private, he lives a completely different life. Greg discovers that Staten Grubert is one of the most senior administrators on a dark website dedicated to sharing images of child sexual abuse.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

Gruber was an important person. He was an important player in the community. So he would never expose himself broadly. He would never make a public announcement about something so intimate, like he's A, married or b, has a pregnant wife.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

Normally, users on the site closely guard their identity, living in fear of being caught by undercover police. But Grubert had come to trust the Swede. He opened up sharing deeply personal information.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

His wife was pregnant. He had planned on abusing that baby.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

For Greg and Pete, things need to move very quickly.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

As soon as we had the suspicion that he was in the U.S. you know, we begin our investigation, our process, the affidavit that would be necessary to send out any checks that we needed done to confirm his identity, begin surveillance, pretty much get all the legal side of the house squared away. Getting our prosecutor up to speed on what the objective was, what the level of dangerousness was. There's a ton of coordination that has to take place.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

And then they set off at speed, bound for Texas.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

It was a little chaotic. The location that he lived in was very difficult to surveil.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

The stakes are even higher than usual.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

You know, this is Texas. So we also had a real awareness of the potential for there to be weapons in the house. It's not like other states here in the U.S. where you go, oh, does he have a license? Well, that's not really relevant to Texas because everybody has a gun.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

About 50 miles north of Austin lies a small town of Bertram with a population of around 2,000 people. The town is cut in two by a railway track. The building they are targeting stating Gruber's trailer lies about a quarter of a mile beyond the end of a long rural road, an isolated spot in an isolated town in the middle of Texas. In order to arrest Grubert, the team first needs to carry out surveillance.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

We had to send a few cars up there and, you know, kind of play dumb and look lost or whatever it may be. So it wasn't a normal situation where you could sit and watch someone go in and out of their house. But we got a little lay of the land as far as where the entry points were of the trailer and, you know, as far as what's going on inside. That was sort of to be discovered upon entry because we had no way to get in there and take a look around.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

Of course, Greg and Pete have assembled a large team for this operation.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

We knew we wanted to have our special response team execute the actual entry of the warrant for safety's sake. You know, these are all professionals, a lot of former military, a lot of former SWAT people.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

It was some serious backup. But a team this size will stick out like a sore thumb.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

You're talking about a road that maybe saw a dozen cars through the course of the day, Let alone our normal line of vehicles with officers in it. It would have given Gruber not just a heads up or a warning, I guess, but it would have almost guaranteed the destruction of evidence as well as create a potential for, you know, Gruber arming himself and looking to have a standoff with police as opposed to a surprise entry, Pretty much. So at the end of the day, the determination was that it would be a nighttime entry. And that was a lot to do with officer safety, because to get up to his trailer in the middle of the day, you know, would have been just about the same as sending a circus up a street.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

Under cover of darkness. The team sets off. Greg and Pete alongside some colleagues from homeland security, plus the heavily armed tactical team.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

I think we had probably 30 of us total. And I think if you. If you visualize two trailers sort of in the middle of a field essentially with one. One driveway going up to it, we had three teams entering from three different directions. So some were coming in from the farmland to the east of his property and working their way through that farm, one from the west, and the team I was on was coming up from the south

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

inside his trailer. Gruber has no idea that more than two dozen officers are commando crawling towards him from three, three directions. They hope that he won't even look up from his computer screen because they have a plan to try and keep him online.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

We had the luxury of my. My close friend having volunteered to stay online as well, to engage him in conversation, if possible, and sort of distract him, for lack of a better term, so that we were working our way up this driveway that we could go as undetected as possible.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

The close friend is an Australian police officer talking online to Grubert, pretending to be a fellow paedophile. The plan is to catch him while he's live on the site. And as he approaches the trailer on his belly, Greg's got his Australian colleague in his earpiece telling him exactly what Grubert is doing.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

So we began our sort of approach to the house, which was extremely slow. These guys are professionals. They do it all the time. So we worked our way up. Full tactical gear, some level of camouflage, of course, to sort of try to blend in. But it was a slow migration. From probably a half mile away, three teams converge on the house sort of simultaneously.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

Suddenly, a pair of headlights flash into view and a truck drives up the track towards Gruber's trailer.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

This is the worst thing. So everyone pretty much put their asses in the grass, cheek to the ground, because a truck came up and went up the driveway. And we all laid down in the grass and got as tight to the ground as we could. And this truck drove by probably 30 agents and didn't see any of us.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

A man gets out of the truck and Gruber comes out to greet him. Eventually they go inside together. Greg and the others haven't time to breathe a sigh of relief. They restart their approach.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

We immediately start moving again because now we're thinking our time is going to be pretty limited with him being online. We get probably within 20 yards of the house. And then the team members whose job it is to set up the entry devices moves into place and they get their gear in place for what's going to happen with the entry. I told my friend on the phone, I said, I don't know if he's still online, but this is a go.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

It's time to strike.

[Podcast Narrator / Advertiser]

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[Special Agent Greg Squire]

I have probably 47 questions in here that I'd like to talk about, and that is going to be kind of up to you. I mean, once we get into the meat and potatoes of why we're here. So we are, again, a Internet crimes specialist group with a focus on crimes against children. And that is our purpose for being here.

[Staton Grubert (Suspect)]

I've never touched a child, period.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

The voice you're hearing is Staton Grubert. He's seated at the kitchen table in his trailer in shock. Just minutes before, 30 armed operatives burst into his home and arrested him on suspicion of advertising child sexual abuse material. When they entered his home, officers had found Gruber surrounded by screenshots. Six monitors, three or four laptops, and on his desk, two loaded handguns. They were right to have been cautious. When the first operative made entry, Gruber slammed his laptop shut and reached for his gun, ready to shoot. But a second operative wrestled him to the ground. Grubert had been ready. He knew what he was doing was wrong. And now he's sitting here unmasked and alone.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

What we do want to learn more about is your activity, okay? And I know a lot of it, so. And you're a smart dude, so I don't have to labor that at all with you. Okay, I know about the websites. I know you're.

[Staton Grubert (Suspect)]

But you're still being vague. I don't necessarily understand what you're.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

Greg isn't going to tell Grubert exactly what he knows. Instead, he wants to see if Grubert will volunteer that information himself. He begins gently asking if Grubert can explain what he was doing on one specific dark website. Remember, these sites are only accessible using the Tor browser, which keeps its users anonymous.

[Staton Grubert (Suspect)]

Well, I'm sure you've looked into my past. As far as Tour goes, I'm a big proponent of Tor. I've always supported Tour, and I've always loved Tor, and I've used it from the age of 12. So I know what you're talking about, but I'm still kind of drawing a blank as to what you're asking.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

I'm asking what are your activity is on tour, and I actually told you already what I know your activity is. So now I'm just looking for you to be candid about that activity.

[Staton Grubert (Suspect)]

I mean, if it's. If it's Internet traffic, I try to use it, right?

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

I mean, I get the idea of going to sites and not wanting yourself traced and all that, but talk to me about dark websites.

[Staton Grubert (Suspect)]

I don't have anything to hide there. So, you know, when you mention a site that I know does have CD stuff or has things to hide, I'm. I'm being honest with you. I've seen that. I know that name. I've seen that site before. But just like when you're saying to me, I'm saying to you, there's nothing. I've got nothing. There's encrypted drives, I have encrypted operating systems and all that kind of stuff, but it's just because it's mine and it's mine to own.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

You can hear Gruber's confidence. Greg asks again about that one specific dark website. He knows Grubert is an admin, but Gruber has no idea the agent sitting opposite him knows so much. Greg switches up a gear.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

Okay, so now we're. Now we've stopped telling the truth, and that's your prerogative. But I don't want you coming to me and saying, well, now you know, we're both sitting here telling the truth, because, like I said, I know. And that's why I went straight to you with. I want to learn about, you know, how you got to where you are.

[Staton Grubert (Suspect)]

Really what I want to do. Just being honest. Really what I want to do is I don't want to be sitting at this table at all. Yeah, I just want to be quiet. I have almost nothing to say. Everything that. That we can talk about, we can talk about the, you know, the. The little stuff, the, you know, shooting the breeze, what we believe about with computing. But beyond that, y' all aren't my friends.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

True.

[Staton Grubert (Suspect)]

Yeah. Y' all are actually adversarially here. Y' all broke into my doors. You know, I'm. I mean, yeah. Here I am sitting at this table, sharing water with you guys. Nothing against you. Nothing. Right. But you're still Miami.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

I'm certain that you wouldn't tell anyone, any neighbor, any friend, about your activity on the Dark web. I get that. 100. I know what the activity is, and I know it's difficult to stare at me and to think that I know what's happened. Okay. I guess what I'm asking you to do is to sort of accept where we are. So let me. Let me present this to you then. You see darkness tonight, right? There's not a lot of good that you can see in the horizon.

[Staton Grubert (Suspect)]

No, I'm probably going to miss the birth of my child. I'm probably going to not see them for many years of their life. I'm going to miss out on a lot of, you know, my wife's issues. It's all gone. My, My. My little, you know, my family. My family means a lot to me, guys. You got to understand that. They have. I'm going to miss out on chances, all those opportunities. If this goes the way that y' all want it to go.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

You can hear Gruber's earlier confidence draining away. There's a danger he'll close up and not talk. So Greg tries a different tack.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

My thought, my belief, and this is speculation a little bit, is that you could probably, if you wanted to, maybe carefully answering questions make a difference in a child's life. You could say to me, I would look into that if I was you, because that's a problem over there. Or I would look into this person, because that's a problem over there, and that is on your conscious, whether you want to do that or not. What I'm saying to you is today is the big difference on that stuff is that because at some point we're not going to be able to talk.

[Staton Grubert (Suspect)]

Pretty much everyone that I'm close to is going to be, like, stating you're never going to see my kid again. See, I'm facing lots of what ifs, man. What. What if I never see my wife again? That's a possibility.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

What if you. What if you stop a child from being abused tonight?

[Staton Grubert (Suspect)]

What if I never see my. I have a very short life here on Earth.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

And so does the kid. So does the kid that's being abused.

[Staton Grubert (Suspect)]

But how? How? The only way that I know. The only way that I know to make this as as best as possible for you and for me should be to just stay quiet.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

Staton Gruber might want to stay quiet, but the news of his arrest travels quickly.

[Elisa (Staton's Sister)]

I can't remember who called me, but I know I got a call. I think it was either my mom or my dad. I remember it was early in the morning. My mom was talking to his wife's family and getting information from them, and I was trying to convey everything to my dad. It was just an absolute whirlwind. So that first call, I just remember that they said he was arrested. It was really bad. There were lots of different agencies there. They busted down his door, and, you know, he had to have done something horrible. I remember feeling immediately like I knew it had something to do with kids. I don't know. I just. I mean, probably my past experience was, you know, giving me that feeling, but I just knew that it had to be something horrible. I felt like it was that. I remember that it was a bunch of phone calls, at least, like four or five with my mom, until she finally said, okay, fine. They're saying that it's crimes against children. That's what the paperwork says. But he wouldn't do that. He wouldn't do that. I said, mom, it's something. Crimes against children. Crimes against children. Everybody was trying to figure it out, but I just. I had that, like, gut dropped feeling that I knew what it had to do with. And, you know, still, she'd say, no, no, no, I can't be that. It's not that. I don't think it's that. And the whole time, she'd been told, you know, by his wife's family that that's what they were saying it was for. That's what was on the paperwork that they had. When she finally said that, she knew. That whole time, I was just so mad. I think I might have been more mad at her than at him. In that very moment, we felt like we weren't getting any information from her. She had asked his wife's family for the information that they had, and they didn't. She said that they didn't want to give it to her. I really don't know how true that is. I felt like we were in limbo. My Sister and I had plans for that day. We were supposed to go shopping. After I, like, had a moment and fell apart, I was like, you know what? We're keeping our plan. We're gonna just go, and our day is gonna be normal, and we'll know more when we know more. And so we drove across town, and we got to the parking lot, and we just sat there. We were like, yeah, we can't go inside. I was like, I can't do this. I'm just gonna cry inside of the store. And I really was, like, determined to figure out what was going on and get more information.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

Elisa needs to try something.

[Elisa (Staton's Sister)]

I knew that his wife's family lived somewhere close by. I found their address, and I decided I'd go knock on their door. And, you know, I figured that, if anything, they'd let me just read what they had and, you know, I could maybe find out more information and figure out what was going on. And so I did that. I went. We parked and walked up and knocked on the door. I'd only met them a couple of times. I wasn't even sure if they would know who I was. So I remember saying, like, it's me. I'm Staton's sister. And he was like, I know who you are. Come in. I felt, like, such a bother, you know, I was just. And I, like, kind of intruding. I don't like surprise visitors myself, so I felt really weird to do that to someone else. But I was kind of desperate. So we sat there and we talked to them for a while about what had happened and how they were feeling.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

Eventually, Gruber's wife's parents hand over the charges.

[Elisa (Staton's Sister)]

Obviously, at that time, I didn't really know a lot about any of this. This whole world that's out there. I just knew that those charges sounded pretty serious.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

Elisa sees something else at the house.

[Elisa (Staton's Sister)]

A picture of a card for the Department of Homeland Security investigator that made the arrest. And so I decided I'd just try. Try calling and see what he could tell me.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

It took her time to work up the courage, but eventually, Elisa sends Greg an email explaining what Staton had done to her as a child. Greg asks if they can get on a call right away.

[Elisa (Staton's Sister)]

And I said, yes, of course. I. I guess I didn't really have any expectations, you know, I just. I felt like I wanted somebody else to know that this person had somewhat of a history, whether or not they were ever caught before. I know that my brother can be manipulative, and I kind of laugh about this. Because I know that Greg sees straight through it, but I think I was worried that he. He might not that he might, you know, fall for it, because I think a lot of people around me for a long time had. So I know that that's probably a normal thought, but it does feel a little silly. I know that that's Greg's job, and he's really good at it, but I told him that, and he was like, nope, I see what you see. Which was also very validating to me, just not feeling like I'd ever had that response before.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

Greg gives Elisa the confidence that she needs. He listens to her and believes her. So Elisa begins to write an email to her whole family outlining the charges against her brother.

[Elisa (Staton's Sister)]

I attached most of the documents that I had, you know, that spell out exactly what he did, how he was caught, all of that. So I knew that other people didn't have that information either. It's worse than anybody could imagine. The average person doesn't dream this stuff up, like it's not something that would pop into your head. It's so much worse. And so I just wanted people to understand. So I attended. I attached the documents. I asked people to read it. I shared why I felt like it was important, you know, that I just wanted everybody to know what he was doing, that I think I did include that he'd shared a family member's child's photos. And I felt like we all needed this information as a family. This was somebody that was at our family functions in our lives. It made sense to me to send it out and have it publicly known within our family. You know, I think There were like 20 to 25 emails on the list. And I think I got one response from a family member that was previously married to someone in my family. So someone that's quite removed. So from my immediate family. No one said anything.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

Instead, she finds out her mum has invented an alternative narrative telling people her son is a victim. We reached out to Elisa's mother and haven't received a response. Elisa says after her mother got our message, she sent a note to her children saying she wants them all to be happy.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

Good morning, your honor.

[Staton Grubert (Suspect)]

Luke Goldman, on behalf of the United States, your honor. Good morning. Ben Tolkoff of the United States.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

In July 2023, Staton Grubert attends a federal court in Boston charged with advertising child sexual abuse material on the Dark Web.

[Elisa (Staton's Sister)]

The judge asked him if he knew why he was there, and he understood the charges. And I remember I watched his hands under the table and they like, he did, like, a shrug when he answered, like, yeah, it's, you know. Advertisement blah, blah, blah. You know, he kind of, like, skirted over it and, like, shrugged his hands. I waited a long time for that day.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

Elisa has also waited a long time to tell her brother exactly what she thinks of him. She wrote a statement for the trial.

[Elisa (Staton's Sister)]

I'm a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, and my abuser was my brother Staton. What I know now after navigating life after his arrest, is that I wasn't the only one. Throughout his childhood, before and after he abused me, he was known to have behaved inappropriately with other children as well. I can tell you from personal experience that he has been perfecting his art of manipulation his entire life. I feel it is so important that you understand that while Stayton doesn't have a previous criminal record, on paper, he does have a lifelong track record of inappropriate behavior towards children.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

Staton's response is to call his sister a liar.

[Elisa (Staton's Sister)]

He doesn't deserve to live in a world with innocent children. And forever isn't long enough for his sentence.

[Lucy (Survivor)]

Mr. Grubert, as to count one of the single count indictment charging you with advertising child pornography in Violation of Title 18 of the United States Code, Section 2, 2251 D&E, you have previously pled not guilty. Do you now wish to change your plea?

[Staton Grubert (Suspect)]

Yes, I do.

[Lucy (Survivor)]

What say you now is to count one guilty or not guilty?

[Staton Grubert (Suspect)]

Guilty.

[Lucy (Survivor)]

Thank you. You may be seated.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

In November 2023, Stayton Gruber was sentenced to 15 years in. Today, Elisa has very little contact with her mother. Instead, she chooses to focus on her own family. She wants to make sure her own children don't experience anything like she did.

[Lucy (Survivor)]

I feel like it's having someone, something you trust.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

In a small cafe in a city in America's southwest, a waitress is taking a break and sitting down to talk to someone who's come to meet her. She's in her early 20s, friendly and polite to any outsider. This looks like an uneventful scene that

[Lucy (Survivor)]

could be the case for, like, children down the line. It would help tremendously.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

The waitress is Lucy, the girl special agents Pete Manning and Greg Squire rescued in their first major case, who they spent months searching for and finally found her after a brick salesman helped to identify the location of the room she was being abused in. For six years, Greg played a key role in the the arrest of her abuser, but he's never met Lucy until now.

[Lucy (Survivor)]

I couldn't tell someone because I didn't know what was happening right Like, I got asked when they were doing the investigation why I didn't tell anyone. Like, not in those words, but might as well have been.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

Well, you're so young. What are you not? Like, these are questions that you can ask an adult, and they're not going to understand them. You can't ask a child that. It's just simply not fair.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

A month ago, Greg found out that after Lucy was rescued, the local police chief kept in touch with her, checking in to see how she was doing. And now, 11 years later, here they are.

[Lucy (Survivor)]

I struggled a lot with being around people, period, any people, for a long time. That, unfortunately, is a normal symptom of this. I personally am not an educator, but I would love to be able to tell these children that it's not children and teenagers. It's not even just like, it's everyone, that this isn't okay. This is okay. This is actively harmful.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

Yeah, it's happening.

[Lucy (Survivor)]

Yeah, it's happening every single day. Unfortunately. You will get through. Will be like, this is incredibly cliche. It is very difficult because this kind of trauma can not only trigger genetic disorders, but it can cause disorders itself, which makes it much harder to get through life. There are resources, and hopefully they will be more accessible in the future.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

We need them to know. Like, it's funny you say you're not an educator, but it's like, this is education.

[Lucy (Survivor)]

Yeah.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

Like, this is gonna be. This could change somebody. And again, it does sound cliche, but, like, if it does, then every bit of it's worth it, you know, every bit of time anyone puts into it. I mean, I'd love to see a place where therapists, academia, parents, everybody, just. Just a little bit more time.

[Lucy (Survivor)]

Yeah, just a little more time. Just a little more time and a little time to sit and be uncomfortable with it. It's unfortunate. And these are the people that you should be trusting. But not everyone's trustworthy. You just can't bring strange people around.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

Kids, sometimes there's no circumstance. And five minutes of an uncomfortable conversation could save years of years and years

[Lucy (Survivor)]

of, like, lifelong trauma.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

Lucy's abuser was sentenced to over 70 years in prison. The impact of his abuse reached into every part of her life.

[Lucy (Survivor)]

If I had known what to expect, whether it be just, hey, here. Memory loss is a usual symptom of. Of this. And being educated on how this could affect my relationships and intimacy would have made so, so much less shame. And shame is. Shouldn't have been put on me. No, it wasn't my fault.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

No, no, you don't deserve to carry that in, carry it at all.

[Lucy (Survivor)]

Yeah.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

You should never have to face it, let alone carry it. We've had some really frustrating conversations with, you know, you talk to, whether it's politicians or legal people and you're thinking about, is this uncomfortable? Well, how do you think any of the kids have felt?

[Lucy (Survivor)]

How do you think a developing child feels about it?

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

Yeah.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

Right now, thousands of pedophiles on the Dark Web will be producing and then sharing images of child sexual abuse for over a decade. Special agents Pete Manning and Greg Squire have been working to stop them. Pete has recently retired, but Greg carries on. The Darkest Web was presented by me Sampira. It was written and produced by Annabel Dees. Script advice by Matt Willis. The music was composed by Rob Lewis. The sound design was by Neil Churchill. The executive producer was Rebecca Henchke. For BBC World Service, the commissioning executives were Sarah Green and Anne Dixie. The executive editor was Liz Gibbons. And the commissioning editor was John Mc. The Darkest Web is a BBCI production.

[World of Secrets Host / Narrator]

The world is full of secrets. Pasts hidden evidence buried. World of Secrets returns soon with more extraordinary investigations. Stories that span continents and challenge power. Hi, I'm Renaco Selena. I presented season nine Death in Dubai. I'm still working on some new developments, so look out for more on that story soon. But for now, I want to be the first to tell you about what the World of Secrets team has got. Coming up in April, we'll bring you a story where for decades, the truth has been hiding in plain sight.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

When I was young, I would see military trucks in a very long convoy of camouflaged vehicles driving to the far north, raising a cloud of dust along with them. We looked at them with a lot of admiration. That's why most of the kids grew up wanting to be soldiers.

[World of Secrets Host / Narrator]

The next season of World of Secrets will take us to Nanyuki in Kenya. The presence of soldiers has shaped this town with its bars, restaurants and shopping malls. But it's also shaped some of the families.

[Elisa (Staton's Sister)]

She told me, and don't go on Facebook. And me being me. I was like, why is mom telling me not to do this? Like, what is there?

[World of Secrets Host / Narrator]

Kathy was just 10 years old when she made a life changing discovery about her father.

[Elisa (Staton's Sister)]

I took her phone and started scrolling on Facebook and I saw the surname. I rush to mom and I shove her phone in her face and I'm like, can you please explain why this guy has the same name as me?

[World of Secrets Host / Narrator]

World of Secrets Season 12 is searching for Soldier dad. Kathy's mother was left without help until now.

[Sam Paranti (Investigator / Narrator)]

We will try as hard as we can. We will use every tool we can. We will go to court as much as we can. I can promise you we will work very, very hard for this.

[World of Secrets Host / Narrator]

With the help of a leading geneticist, a group of British and Kenyan lawyers is using DNA science to find missing fathers. The results will upend families in Africa and in Europe.

[Elisa (Staton's Sister)]

They knew nothing. It was a complete surprise to them. He came up on their ancestry feed. They had no idea.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

When I saw him, I thought, now my life will be better. You know, I was seeing a future for my son.

[Elisa (Staton's Sister)]

You know, I don't feel like he's

[Podcast Narrator / Advertiser]

feeling the same way I feel for him.

[World of Secrets Host / Narrator]

Later in 2026 will tell a story that began decades ago. But the scars have never fully faded. We're taken into a US prison in the early 1970s.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

Just about every other inmate, black or white, is wearing adhesive tape and medical patches. It looked like the institution had just suffered a major riot. Something very, very unusual has happened here.

[World of Secrets Host / Narrator]

World of secrets Dr. Skin will tell the story of the inmates of a prison in the US who rented their skin to what they were told were perfume researchers.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

We believed in the system, we believed in the power dynamic. These are people in positions of power. They're not gonna lie to us about this.

[World of Secrets Host / Narrator]

But they had no idea what was really going on.

[Special Agent Greg Squire]

There is a very interesting story that no one seems to know about these medical experiments. It's obviously not just perfume tests. They knew our weakness, man. We was fertile ground for them people, man. We were considered in the minds of a lot of folk with power. Less than human beings feel so ashamed about that.

[World of Secrets Host / Narrator]

So There you are, two more seasons of World of Secrets coming soon in 2026. Follow or subscribe to Listen and don't forget to allow push notifications so you know straight away about every new episode. And if you enjoy what we do, please tell people about World of Secrets, the BBC's global investigations podcast. Our next season, World of Secrets Searching for Soldier dad will start on Monday 20 April. If you can't wait until then, there are now 11 previous seasons to catch up on. For now, thanks for listening.

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