Podcast Summary:

Wretched Radio with Todd Friel
Episode: How Does This “Minister” Respond When Questioned By A Congressman?
Date: March 9, 2026

Overview

This episode of Wretched Radio centers on a recent Minnesota government hearing where a Methodist minister, Maria Tolgaard (Hamlin Methodist Church, St. Paul), invoked biblical references—specifically Matthew 25—to argue for government compassion in the context of immigration policy. Representative Michael Cloud (Texas) challenges her biblical application, pressing about context, individual versus governmental responsibility, and the misuse of Scripture for political arguments. Host Todd Friel and co-hosts analyze the exchange, highlighting wider issues of biblical literacy, Christian involvement in politics, and the genuine nature of Christian charity. The show’s tone is sarcastic, polemical, and conversational, blending theological critique with cultural commentary.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: The Minnesota Hearing

• The episode opens as Todd Friel (and co-host) recount a government hearing meant to address fraud and waste in Minnesota. Instead, a Methodist minister (Maria Tolgaard) presents anecdotes about ICE "terrorizing" immigrants and closes with a citation from Matthew 25.
• Quote [02:45], Maria Tolgaard:

  “Jesus teaches us in Matthew 25, whatever you do for the least of these, you do unto me. History will tell its story about us, but long before then, our own souls will know whether we stood with them or turned away. No nation can build a true future on the terror of its own people.”

2. “Argument by Anecdote” and the Use/Misuse of Scripture

• Friel critiques the use of personal stories with no data as a weak rhetorical device (“argument by anecdote”) and laments what he sees as a common habit of misusing Bible verses out of context in public political arguments.
• Quote [03:20], Host:

  “Context, context, context. That was her closing salvo.”

3. Congressman Michael Cloud’s Pushback: Bible in Context

• Rep. Cloud responds directly to the minister’s citation of Matthew 25, reading the passage and pressing on who "the least of these" and “you” refers to.
• Cloud emphasizes that Scripture addresses individuals, not governments, concerning acts of charity.
  • Quote [05:14], Cloud:

    “…the king will answer to them, Truly, I say to you, to the extent that you did to one of these brothers, mine, even the least of them, you did this to me. I would ask you, who's the you in that passage?”

4. Distinction Between Individual Charity and Government Coercion

• Cloud and Friel articulate a key theological distinction: biblical charity is encouraged as personal, voluntary, and motivated by faith—not compelled or handled via government taxation.
  • Quote [07:35], Cloud, referencing 2 Corinthians 9:

    “Each of you should give what you've decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion. For God loves a cheerful giver. Would you say that taxes are under compulsion?”

  • The minister admits she pays taxes, and Cloud points out taxes are indeed compulsory.

5. Further Biblical Context: Parable of the Talents

• Cloud challenges Tolgaard to recall the parable preceding Matthew 25’s “least of these,” the Parable of the Talents, and clarifies Jesus is commending individual fruitfulness and responsibility, not collective or governmental action.
  • Quote [10:29], Cloud:

    “He calls him a wicked and a lazy servant.”

6. Application for Listeners: Engage the Text in Context

• Friel emphasizes the importance for Christians to check the context of Bible verses, especially when used in sociopolitical debates.
  • Quote [17:18], Host:

    “Read the paragraph before, read the paragraph after. Almost every time, it will give you the key to the interpretation.”

7. Broader Reflections: Biblical Worldview and Politics

• The episode shifts to the low percentage of Americans (only 4%) who Barna surveys say hold a biblical worldview.
• Friel points out that political actions flow from religious beliefs, and “bad politics” reflects bad religion—thus, evangelism and kingdom-building should take priority for Christians.
  • Quote [22:21], Host:

    “…if you and I would like to see people vote for better politicians… the key is obvious—they need to have a biblical worldview…The question, of course, is how do you get a biblical worldview? …It is through regeneration.”

8. Emotional Depth in Christian Love & Doctrine

• In a segment on love, Friel and co-hosts discuss the different Greek words for love (agape, phileo, eros) and challenge the view that agape is purely volitional (action-based without emotion). Modern scholarship, Friel says, increasingly affirms that God’s love, and Christian love, is both volitional and affectionate.
  • Quote [38:04], Host:

    “Agape is, even if I don't have those feelings, I'm still going to do for you. But that doesn't mean that agape is void of feelings...It is familial and it is warm and it is deep and it is rich…”

9. Nature of God’s Emotions: Impassibility vs. Affection

• Friel unpacks classic theology debates about God’s emotions, affirming that God’s love and affections are real (though not changeable/reactive like humans) and relational, citing implications for Christian “adoption” as God’s children.
  • Quote [44:47], Host:

    "If God doesn't feel anything, then our relationship with him... is far more transactional than it is relational. And when I read the Bible I see relationship all the time..."

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the use of Matthew 25 out of context:
  Host, [03:20]: "Context, context, context. That was her closing salvo."
• Rep. Cloud’s central question:
  Cloud, [05:14]: "I would ask you, who's the you in that passage?"
• On compulsory charity vs. biblical giving:
  Cloud, [07:35]: “Each of you should give what you've decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion. For God loves a cheerful giver. Would you say that taxes are under compulsion?”
• On gross misuse of Bible for politics:
  Host, [17:18]: “Please make sure that before you accept a Bible verse…read the paragraph before, read the paragraph after…context, context, context.”
• On church’s real mission:
  Host, [22:21]: “If you and I would like to see people vote for better politicians… the key is obvious—they need to have a biblical worldview… The question…is how do you get a biblical worldview?... It is through regeneration.”
• On the emotional warmness of Christian love:
  Host, [38:04]: “Agape is… even if I don't have those feelings, I'm still going to do for you. But that doesn't mean that agape is void of feelings...It is familial and it is warm and it is deep and it is rich..."
• The challenge of a “transactional” view of God:
  Host, [44:47]: “If God doesn't feel anything, then our relationship with him...is far more transactional than it is relational. And when I read the Bible I see relationship all the time.”

Structurally Important Segments (Timestamps)

• Opening and Minnesota hearing intro: [00:08–03:07]
• Rep. Cloud and Rev. Tolgaard Scripture exchange: [04:04–10:36]
• Broader analysis on biblical context: [15:03–17:18]
• Commentary on worldviews and politics: [22:01–26:01]
• Biblical love and emotions: [35:21–44:47]

Episode Takeaways

• Scriptural context is paramount: The repeated abuse of Bible verses for political agendas calls for careful, contextual study—“read the paragraph before and after!”
• Charity is individual, not government-enforced: New Testament giving is voluntary and should come from changed hearts, not taxation.
• Personal piety over political activism: Real change—personal, political, cultural—springs from regeneration and discipleship, not merely external reform or government compulsion.
• God’s love is both active and affectional: Modern theology affirms that both action and emotion are part of true, biblical love—a corrective to sterile, purely “duty-based” models.
• Apologetics for daily living: Christians should expect public scrutiny, and their private acts of love and raising children in the faith are real testimony to the watching world.

Final Thoughts

Friel and his co-hosts urge believers not to be swayed by shallow or contextless invocations of Scripture in public life. The true measure of Christian witness is rooted in sound doctrine, gracious love, and a focus on Christ’s eternal kingdom—always turning back to the Bible itself, read and handled carefully.

Related Episode Themes:

• Biblical interpretation in the public square
• Faith and politics
• The doctrine of God’s love and emotions
• The role of narrative vs. data in persuasion
• Living out a biblical worldview

For more details or to listen:
Visit fortisinstitute.org or find the episode on your favorite podcast app.