How Does This “Minister” Respond When Questioned By A Congressman?

Summary

Podcast Summary:

Wretched Radio with Todd Friel
Episode: How Does This “Minister” Respond When Questioned By A Congressman?
Date: March 9, 2026

Overview

This episode of Wretched Radio centers on a recent Minnesota government hearing where a Methodist minister, Maria Tolgaard (Hamlin Methodist Church, St. Paul), invoked biblical references—specifically Matthew 25—to argue for government compassion in the context of immigration policy. Representative Michael Cloud (Texas) challenges her biblical application, pressing about context, individual versus governmental responsibility, and the misuse of Scripture for political arguments. Host Todd Friel and co-hosts analyze the exchange, highlighting wider issues of biblical literacy, Christian involvement in politics, and the genuine nature of Christian charity. The show’s tone is sarcastic, polemical, and conversational, blending theological critique with cultural commentary.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: The Minnesota Hearing

• The episode opens as Todd Friel (and co-host) recount a government hearing meant to address fraud and waste in Minnesota. Instead, a Methodist minister (Maria Tolgaard) presents anecdotes about ICE "terrorizing" immigrants and closes with a citation from Matthew 25.
• Quote [02:45], Maria Tolgaard:

  “Jesus teaches us in Matthew 25, whatever you do for the least of these, you do unto me. History will tell its story about us, but long before then, our own souls will know whether we stood with them or turned away. No nation can build a true future on the terror of its own people.”

2. “Argument by Anecdote” and the Use/Misuse of Scripture

• Friel critiques the use of personal stories with no data as a weak rhetorical device (“argument by anecdote”) and laments what he sees as a common habit of misusing Bible verses out of context in public political arguments.
• Quote [03:20], Host:

  “Context, context, context. That was her closing salvo.”

3. Congressman Michael Cloud’s Pushback: Bible in Context

• Rep. Cloud responds directly to the minister’s citation of Matthew 25, reading the passage and pressing on who "the least of these" and “you” refers to.
• Cloud emphasizes that Scripture addresses individuals, not governments, concerning acts of charity.
  • Quote [05:14], Cloud:

    “…the king will answer to them, Truly, I say to you, to the extent that you did to one of these brothers, mine, even the least of them, you did this to me. I would ask you, who's the you in that passage?”

4. Distinction Between Individual Charity and Government Coercion

• Cloud and Friel articulate a key theological distinction: biblical charity is encouraged as personal, voluntary, and motivated by faith—not compelled or handled via government taxation.
  • Quote [07:35], Cloud, referencing 2 Corinthians 9:

    “Each of you should give what you've decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion. For God loves a cheerful giver. Would you say that taxes are under compulsion?”

  • The minister admits she pays taxes, and Cloud points out taxes are indeed compulsory.

5. Further Biblical Context: Parable of the Talents

• Cloud challenges Tolgaard to recall the parable preceding Matthew 25’s “least of these,” the Parable of the Talents, and clarifies Jesus is commending individual fruitfulness and responsibility, not collective or governmental action.
  • Quote [10:29], Cloud:

    “He calls him a wicked and a lazy servant.”

6. Application for Listeners: Engage the Text in Context

• Friel emphasizes the importance for Christians to check the context of Bible verses, especially when used in sociopolitical debates.
  • Quote [17:18], Host:

    “Read the paragraph before, read the paragraph after. Almost every time, it will give you the key to the interpretation.”

7. Broader Reflections: Biblical Worldview and Politics

• The episode shifts to the low percentage of Americans (only 4%) who Barna surveys say hold a biblical worldview.
• Friel points out that political actions flow from religious beliefs, and “bad politics” reflects bad religion—thus, evangelism and kingdom-building should take priority for Christians.
  • Quote [22:21], Host:

    “…if you and I would like to see people vote for better politicians… the key is obvious—they need to have a biblical worldview…The question, of course, is how do you get a biblical worldview? …It is through regeneration.”

8. Emotional Depth in Christian Love & Doctrine

• In a segment on love, Friel and co-hosts discuss the different Greek words for love (agape, phileo, eros) and challenge the view that agape is purely volitional (action-based without emotion). Modern scholarship, Friel says, increasingly affirms that God’s love, and Christian love, is both volitional and affectionate.
  • Quote [38:04], Host:

    “Agape is, even if I don't have those feelings, I'm still going to do for you. But that doesn't mean that agape is void of feelings...It is familial and it is warm and it is deep and it is rich…”

9. Nature of God’s Emotions: Impassibility vs. Affection

• Friel unpacks classic theology debates about God’s emotions, affirming that God’s love and affections are real (though not changeable/reactive like humans) and relational, citing implications for Christian “adoption” as God’s children.
  • Quote [44:47], Host:

    "If God doesn't feel anything, then our relationship with him... is far more transactional than it is relational. And when I read the Bible I see relationship all the time..."

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the use of Matthew 25 out of context:
  Host, [03:20]: "Context, context, context. That was her closing salvo."
• Rep. Cloud’s central question:
  Cloud, [05:14]: "I would ask you, who's the you in that passage?"
• On compulsory charity vs. biblical giving:
  Cloud, [07:35]: “Each of you should give what you've decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion. For God loves a cheerful giver. Would you say that taxes are under compulsion?”
• On gross misuse of Bible for politics:
  Host, [17:18]: “Please make sure that before you accept a Bible verse…read the paragraph before, read the paragraph after…context, context, context.”
• On church’s real mission:
  Host, [22:21]: “If you and I would like to see people vote for better politicians… the key is obvious—they need to have a biblical worldview… The question…is how do you get a biblical worldview?... It is through regeneration.”
• On the emotional warmness of Christian love:
  Host, [38:04]: “Agape is… even if I don't have those feelings, I'm still going to do for you. But that doesn't mean that agape is void of feelings...It is familial and it is warm and it is deep and it is rich..."
• The challenge of a “transactional” view of God:
  Host, [44:47]: “If God doesn't feel anything, then our relationship with him...is far more transactional than it is relational. And when I read the Bible I see relationship all the time.”

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Structurally Important Segments (Timestamps)

• Opening and Minnesota hearing intro: [00:08–03:07]
• Rep. Cloud and Rev. Tolgaard Scripture exchange: [04:04–10:36]
• Broader analysis on biblical context: [15:03–17:18]
• Commentary on worldviews and politics: [22:01–26:01]
• Biblical love and emotions: [35:21–44:47]

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Episode Takeaways

• Scriptural context is paramount: The repeated abuse of Bible verses for political agendas calls for careful, contextual study—“read the paragraph before and after!”
• Charity is individual, not government-enforced: New Testament giving is voluntary and should come from changed hearts, not taxation.
• Personal piety over political activism: Real change—personal, political, cultural—springs from regeneration and discipleship, not merely external reform or government compulsion.
• God’s love is both active and affectional: Modern theology affirms that both action and emotion are part of true, biblical love—a corrective to sterile, purely “duty-based” models.
• Apologetics for daily living: Christians should expect public scrutiny, and their private acts of love and raising children in the faith are real testimony to the watching world.

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Final Thoughts

Friel and his co-hosts urge believers not to be swayed by shallow or contextless invocations of Scripture in public life. The true measure of Christian witness is rooted in sound doctrine, gracious love, and a focus on Christ’s eternal kingdom—always turning back to the Bible itself, read and handled carefully.

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Related Episode Themes:

• Biblical interpretation in the public square
• Faith and politics
• The doctrine of God’s love and emotions
• The role of narrative vs. data in persuasion
• Living out a biblical worldview

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For more details or to listen:
Visit fortisinstitute.org or find the episode on your favorite podcast app.

Transcript

[Todd Friel]

Wretched radio begins in 3, 2, 1.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Seriously, if you want to relieve stress,

[Fortis Institute Announcer/Narrator]

go to the word of God.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Oh my goodness. Just so weird, isn't it?

[Fortis Institute Announcer/Narrator]

People say stuff like that.

[Representative Michael Cloud]

I apologize for it.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Are you kidding me? Let's all do baptism and I have

[Fortis Institute Announcer/Narrator]

a little pool here and we'll all feel nice and relaxed. That's baptism.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

No, baptism is a sacred Christian rite. All the various yogas are sacred Hindu rites. Wake up America.

[Todd Friel]

It's time for Wretched Racism Radio with Todd Friel.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

In this corner, a charismatic representative from the great state of Texas. In the other corner, boxing way out of her class, it's a Methodist minister from St. Paul, Minnesota.

[Representative Michael Cloud]

You're a pastor, right?

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Well, This is Wretched Radio. A hearing that was supposed to be about government fraud and waste in the great state of Minnesota. Oh, Minnesota. What happened to you? Featuring Governor Tim Waltz and the Attorney General Ellis. For some reason they toted in a Methodist minister from Hamlin Methodist Church in St. Paul, Minnesota. Go to their website. If you want to see a glorious historic Protestant church with magnificent stained glass, that would be the place. I've driven by it a gazillion times. It's magnificent. And every single Methodist who put their hard earned money into building that church, no doubt spinning in their grave like a lathe. This woman was brought in with Governor Walsh and Attorney General Ellis to discuss fraud. Take my word for it, she didn't. All she did was talk about anecdotes, people that she knows who have been supposedly terrorized by ice and how horrible this is. And anybody who was sitting in that hearing should have been scratching their head saying, what are you talking about? Furthermore, it was argument by anecdote. Be on the lookout for this. Because if an individual doesn't actually have facts, data, or dare I say science, then what do they do? They bring out stories. They tell somebody's story. No names, nothing, nothing legal to back up these claims. Just this person was treated like that. That person was really scared. These children are afraid that their parents are going to be taken away. Now, whether they're true or not, I don't know. But that's exactly the point. Argument by anecdote is a very lame way to present one's case. But then at the very end of her it was about three minutes long, she actually decided to quote a Bible

[Methodist Minister Maria Tolgaard]

verse Jesus teaches us in Matthew 25, whatever you do for the least of these, you do unto me. History will tell its story about us, but long before then, our own souls will know whether we stood with them. Or turned away. No nation can build a true future on the terror of its own people.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Okay, once again, mingling ice. But did you hear the Bible verse that she quoted at the very beginning? It's being quoted a lot these days.

[Methodist Minister Maria Tolgaard]

Jesus teaches us in Matthew 25, whatever you do for the least of these, you do unto me.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Context, context, context. That was her closing salvo. Enter the representative from the great state of Texas. I looked up his church. It appears that he goes to a. It's a very large church. It would be considered orthodox with its statement of faith. It is a pastor and a pastor's wife. They believe in healing, so they aren't my evangelical tribe. Nevertheless, it would appear this particular representative, he's learning his Bible and understanding biblical hermeneutics, which includes context, context. Context now recognizes Mr. Cloud from Texas.

[Representative Michael Cloud]

Thank you, Chairman. Thank you for holding this hearing. This hearing was designed to be a hearing looking into the massive expansion of some of the social programs and the. What happened to that that was contained therein. But, Reverend Tolgaard, I was struck by part of your opening statement because you invoked Matthew 25, and that's a scripture we see tossed around a lot up here, but often without context. And so I went and got my Bible and thought we'd dig into Matthew 25 for a minute. The scripture you invoked was Matthew 25.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Before we get into Matthew 25. Have you noticed? Wait a second. What's that smell? Oh, yeah, it's the odour of hypocrisy. When a Christian quotes their Bible in support of a political position. That's Christian nationalism. When and way in over her head, methodist minister from St. Paul invokes the Bible to apparently, I guess her argument was, therefore ice shouldn't exist. No problemo. Why don't those same people call her a Christian nationalist? Just asking Back to the representative.

[Representative Michael Cloud]

35, 40. It ends with this, says, then the righteous will answer to him, lord, when did we see you hungry, feed you or thirsty and give you something to drink? And when did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or naked and clothe you? When did we see you sick or imprisoned and come to you? And the king will answer to them. Truly, I say to you, to the extent that you did to one of these brothers, mine, even the least of them, you did this to me. I would ask you, who's the you in that passage?

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Well, the passage answers the question that you've done it to these brothers. First of all, the recipients would be these brothers of mine. The representative is asking the right question, to whom is this salvo? Or at whom is this salvo aimed, Individuals or government?

[Methodist Minister Maria Tolgaard]

Thank you for your question.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Sorry. She has no idea the context or she didn't consider that. It's like, hey, there's the gotcha verse. Let's just throw that one out with my purple stole.

[Methodist Minister Maria Tolgaard]

You meaning all of us, the followers of Christ.

[Representative Michael Cloud]

Followers of Christ. Right. In Matthew 24:3, it says, After Jesus was sitting on the mountain of olives and the disciples came to him privately, and then they asked him. That began this whole chapter. Now, what Christ didn't say was to lobby your government. He said, if you have, you give. That's the general biblical principle here. You know, Second Corinthians, chapter nine gives us probably the best scriptural understanding of what charity is.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Give from your heart, you individual, moved by the grace of God. The good news that Jesus died for you, a sinner, Therefore motivates you to do what? To return the love, to return the kindness, to return the sacrifice. That's Christian giving. That's Christian charity. It's from the individual, from the heart, not from the government, and not under compulsion through enforced taxation, as each of

[Representative Michael Cloud]

you should give what you've decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly, under compulsion. For God loves a cheerful giver. Would you say that taxes are under compulsion?

[Methodist Minister Maria Tolgaard]

Taxes are not my area of expertise, but I.

[Representative Michael Cloud]

But are they given under compulsion? Do you pay your taxes as a US Citizen?

[Methodist Minister Maria Tolgaard]

I pay my taxes, yes.

[Representative Michael Cloud]

Because what happens if you don't?

[Methodist Minister Maria Tolgaard]

We don't have the services that we need to support our.

[Representative Michael Cloud]

What happens to you personally if you don't pay your taxes?

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Rich, this woman is so steeped in liberal ideology, it's not about the clear answer to the question she's sensing. Hey, wait a second. If we don't have taxes, then we can't have bloated social programs that a lot of people take advantage of. In the state of Minnesota. She finally sort of gets there, took some coaching, get in trouble.

[Representative Michael Cloud]

You get in trouble. I would say that's under compulsion. So if we're talking about what charity is, I'm always amazed in D.C. how much of we get to define our personal worth as a politician or statesman or whatever you want to call us, by how much of other people's money we give away. And so there's certainly a place for a social safety net potentially. But the idea that Matthew 25 is kind of used as a blanket statement, as a matter of fact, the parable that it gives right before that scripture that you Go into is the parable of the talents.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Where, oh, oh, she didn't know the context. It had to be like, pulled out of her the context of Jesus. Descriptor of those people who bear fruit. In keeping with repentance. We visit those who are sick, we take care of widows and orphans, we feed, we clothe. Those are the marks of a Christian. That, that, that's what Jesus was talking about. And he was speaking to people who were hearing him as individuals. The individual who is definitely born again does those things, bears those fruit. She didn't seem to know that. She thought it was a verse that supported government taxation for the sake of wealth redistribution. Do we expect she's going to know the parable of the talents?

[Representative Michael Cloud]

You see someone, a business owner, go away and he leaves three employees in charge and gives them each a bit of investment and two of them turn their investment into a profit. The one that turns it not into a profit, does nothing with it, just sits on it. What does he call him?

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

2, 3, 4, 5?

[Representative Michael Cloud]

You're a pastor, right?

[Methodist Minister Maria Tolgaard]

Yes, I am, sir. I don't have.

[Representative Michael Cloud]

He calls him a wicked and a lazy servant.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Sorry, that's grade school. That, that, that, that, that's a line you just don't forget. Because when you hear the master say to the individual who didn't work hard for his master, you wicked and lazy servant, those are severe words that I would think pretty much anybody who went through any sort of Sunday school program would be able to quote, quote a Methodist minister from St. Paul, Minnesota, not so much. We'll continue listening to this not for the sake of torture, but for the sake of making sure that we are able to tag those who use the Bible to support unbiblical ideologies. Next on Wretched Radio.

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the Gospel through a Focus Groove and they loved the part about love. Then came the notes. Sin. Well, it sounds a little bit harsh, so they suggested we call it personal Brokenness.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Hell.

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Well, that's a big negative. Maybe spiritual separation, saying Jesus is the only way? Well, that's just intolerant. You have to make him one of many meaningful paths. And the call to repent and believe, that just raises a little bit of friction. How about like and subscribe? We thank them for their time and kept the message. If you're done rounding off the edges, Witness Wednesday Here at Wretched Radio, we'll help you share the real gospel, a holy God, real sin, a just wrath, a crucified and risen Savior, and a clear call to repent and believe. And we'll do it kindly, clearly and without the sales pitch. It's Witness Wednesday on Wretched Radio. You can listen to your heart's [e-mail].

[Todd Friel]

Titles of Christ in the Bible, Jesus is given many titles that teach us about who he is and what he has done. Jesus is called the Son of Man. Daniel chapter seven describes the Son of Man who came from heaven, received worship from all nations, and rules a kingdom that will never be destroyed. Jesus uses this title to affirm that he is fully human and fully, fully divine. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Well, she started it. This is Wretched Radio, a hearing that went all biblical. Why? Because mysteriously, a Methodist Minister From St. Paul, Minnesota, her name is Maria Tolgaard. She appeared with Governor Waltz, with Attorney General Ellis, presumably to talk about abroad in Minnesota. She used her time to simply attack ice, quoting a Bible verse and Suddenly, it was game on for Representative Michael Cloud of Texas, who took her to school, asking her questions she was clearly incapable of answering, totally out of her depth. And he continued to press. He was just relentless.

[Representative Michael Cloud]

Would you say that someone who commits fraud. Fraud is doing wrong.

[Methodist Minister Maria Tolgaard]

We all are against fraud.

[Representative Michael Cloud]

Right? Is fraud. Theft. Would you agree that that's theft?

[Methodist Minister Maria Tolgaard]

Yes.

[Representative Michael Cloud]

As the eighth commandment says, thou shalt not steal. Would you recommend that someone in your church go into debt to give an offering in your church?

[Methodist Minister Maria Tolgaard]

No.

[Representative Michael Cloud]

Okay. So we have a massive program of fraud that's being paid for by taxpayers. And it's not really us paying it. It's really our kids and our grandkids that are paying it. And yet we continue to see this massive exp. All under the. Taken out of context of what charity is being defined as. You know, it's interesting. I find it odd that the left continues to bring up Matthew 25, because at the very beginning of that, right before he goes in that scripture that we talked with, it says, Matthew 25:32, all the nations will be gathered to him, and he will separate the people from one another as sheep and goats. He will put the sheep on his right and his goats on the left. And the king will say to those on his right, come in, you are blessed to the Father, take your inheritance to the kingdom. And those on his left, he will say, depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. So I would caution those who begin to use Matthew 25 to do so in the proper context. Understanding that we have multiple biblical institutions and they each have a purpose.

[Methodist Minister Maria Tolgaard]

The context here is vast.

[Representative Michael Cloud]

Mr. Chairman, I'd like to submit the entirety of Matthew 25.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

That is just. That is just awesome. Please make sure that before you accept a Bible verse. She's not the only one who's doing this. James Talarico from Texas, from Austin, Texas, he is so quick to use that particular Bible verse. He's very quick to quote Scripture. I don't know that I've ever heard him quote it in context. That is the key. So when you are in one of these conversations and somebody chooses to use the Bible to promote a liberal agenda, open up your Bible. I'm telling you, this will save you. So many times if somebody asks you a question, even about a Bible verse, where it's like, hey, well, what does that verse say? And you go, very simple. Read the paragraph before, read the paragraph after. Almost every time. It will give you the key to the interpretation of any verse that appears to Be somewhat confusing. In other words, context, context, context. Let me take you now to another political speech. I'm sorry, it wasn't a political speech. It was actually the memorial for Jesse Jackson. Barack Obama appeared at the memorial. And I haven't heard Barack Obama speak for a long time because, well, he's doing plenty behind the scenes. I just don't hear him speak very often. But I honestly, I don't recall him having this particular accent.

[Barack Obama (quoted in speech)]

We are living in a time when it can be hard to hope. Each day we wake up to some new assault on our democratic institutions. That.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

That accent I.

[Barack Obama (quoted in speech)]

Another setback to the idea of the rule of law, an offense to common decency. Every day you wake up to. To things. You just didn't think we're possum.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

We'll just call it a Southern accent. Suddenly Barack Obama has a Southern accent. You don't suppose he's playing to the crowd? I personally would find that a wee bit offensive, but what do I know?

[Barack Obama (quoted in speech)]

Each day we're told by those in high office to fear each other and to turn on each other and that some Americans count more than others.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Now there's an R in others. I'm pretty sure of that. I don't know what happened to it at this particular speech.

[Barack Obama (quoted in speech)]

And that some don't even count at all. Everywhere we see greed and bigotry.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Hold the phone, Henrietta. That was the comment that got a fair amount of press, that individuals who want to uphold laws are bigots. That would be an ad hominem. That is name calling. That is the argument. If you have the audacity to argue against what they perceive to be an injustice, that people who are in the country illegally should be allowed to stay and be given the same treatment as citizens. Well, guess what? You just heard it.

[Barack Obama (quoted in speech)]

You're a bigot being celebrated and bullying.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Oh, and you're a bully.

[Barack Obama (quoted in speech)]

And mockery masquerading as strength.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Yeah, okay, that could be a fair point.

[Barack Obama (quoted in speech)]

We see science and expertise denigrated, while ignorance and dishonesty and cruelty and corruption are reaping untold rewards. Every. Every single day. We see that. And it's hard.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

I don't know what he's talking about, to be honest, but it's like, hold on a second here. Who are the science deniers? Last time I checked that there are just two genders. Science affirms that, yes, there are aberrations. They are typically called deformities. There are only two genders. That's science. Hey, how's about the science of embryology? What is in a womb that is a fertilized egg is a human being. We know that from science. Who are the science deniers? I'm not sure. What if it was a global warming? He was. I'm not sure

[Barack Obama (quoted in speech)]

in those moments. So it may be tempting to get discouraged, to give in to cynicism. It may be tempting for some to compromise with power and grab what you can.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Or at the Jesse Jackson Memorial, I just read a statistic that should, I think, help you and me to make sure that we have our political priorities in place. The skirmish, it's just going to continue to be waged and it is hot and it is nasty. But as Christians, I think we need to look a little deeper. We need to go to a different place. Why the divide in America? Well, it's because you've got two competing worldviews. It was a Barna survey that was done. Guess the percentage of Americans who hold a biblical worldview. I'll tell you. 4%. 4%. 4% evangelicals, like 20 some percent of evangelicals actually hold a biblical worldview. The survey, they asked 58 questions. So this wasn't like. So what do you think about this? It was pretty thorough. And what it revealed is. The phrase that was used is faith is not integrated into their politics. So what do we see when we see bad politics? We see bad religion. In other words, if you and I would like to see a better America, not a horrible goal. If you and I would like to see people vote for better politicians who do indeed use biblical thinking to inform their policy making, the key is obvious, they need to have a biblical worldview. The question of course is how do you get a biblical worldview? Well, Paul tells us that unless you have the mind of Christ, you don't really have a biblical worldview. Oh, I guess you could adhere to it, but you can't even really understand the Bible. If you don't have the mind of Christ, your mind is still dead darkened. If we want politicians who use the Bible rightly, if we want politicians who use the Bible to inform their policy making, if we want a more moral country, what we need are more moral people. How does somebody become moral? It is through regeneration. You take a look at your calendar, you figure out how much time and energy and effort you put into the political realm, that's up to you. But what I would suggest to you, we need to be putting as Christians more. That's right, more effort into evangelism and building Christ's kingdom, which will endure forever, rather than this king didn't say don't do any. I'm just saying we're Christians. We put more into that kingdom. Sunday school at Alpharetta Bible Church. We were going through Isaiah and There are about 13 chapters, maybe 10 chapters. Every one of the great nations Assyria, Babylon, they all fall, they come tumbling down, they just don't stand. But Isaiah was a message to us today. We need to remember the priority of kingdoms. We need to remember that we've been given our marching orders. Go and make disciples. Make the most of every opportunity. Proclaim His Excellencies. If politics has you weary, and I don't know how it can't, then maybe, just maybe, we need to listen to Isaiah. Let's focus more energy on his eternal kingdom, not this temporal kingdom. This is wretched radio.

[Fortis Institute Announcer/Narrator]

And it's now time for your daily Portus newsbreak production of For Iran's assembly of Experts has named Mojtaba Khamenei as the country's new supreme leader, which follows the death of his father, Ayatollah ali Khamenei, during US and Israeli strikes on February 28. Mojtaba, who is 56 years old, has never held elected office but is reportedly close to the Revolutionary Guard and has been under US sanctions since 2019. Closer to home, Manhattan got its own security scare as NYPD locked down streets near Gracie Mansion after finding a suspicious device linked to a confirmed IED from the day before. Commissioner Jessica Tisch said the explosive, which was a glass jar packed with nuts, bolts and a fuse, was capable of serious injury or death. An 18 year old protester has been arrested and the FBI's Joint Terrorism Task Force is now involved. Yeah, you know, we might not agree with who the mayor is and his policies, but what when explosives start to show up in his neighborhood? You gotta treat domestic political violence with all the seriousness it deserves. On the legal friend, an Ontario judge has ruled the province's mandatory lifetime sex offender registry reporting unconstitutional, a case that involves Michael Roberts, a man that pled guilty to eight counts of sexual assault in 2010, reported for 13 years and then simply stopped in 2024. One Justice Darwin gag called the rules overboard and stayed the charge. Meanwhile, in Virginia, Liberty Council has sued to block an abortion amendment from reaching the 2026 ballot, arguing that the House of Delegates skipped constitutionally required steps, including distributing the text to circuit court clerks and posting it months before the delegation election. Senators Tom Cotton and Rick Scott are demanding Attorney General Pam Bondi investigate Chinese own surrogacy center, citing more than 107 agencies operating in Southern California alone. They point it to one man reportedly fathering 100 children through US surrogacy with infants flown back to China, effectively turning birthright citizenship into a commodity. And that demand lands as the Supreme Court prepares to hear arguments in April on the Trump administration's challenge to citizenship by birth interpretations. Critics say the industry reduces pregnancy to a certain service and babies to products. And they're not wrong. A wrongful death lawsuit is putting AI companionship on trial after Google's Gemini allegedly convinced a man it was a sentient being in love with him, then fed him escalating hallucinations, faked surveillance claims, a bogus security code, and then urged him to barricade his home and take his own life. His family found him dead. Google expressed sympathy. The NSID Gemini is designed to avoid exactly this. Well, something didn't take then. That wraps up today's Fortis News break. I'm Jimmy Hicks. If you want more, you can download Fortis or sign up to become a Fortis Insider for exclusive daily content. Both of those things can be [e-mail] and don't forget, you can subscribe to Fortis News on your favorite podcast app in order to get these updates daily. And until tomorrow, go serve your king.

[Todd Friel]

Names of God One name the Bible gives to God is the Greek word despotes, which means absolute ruler. Despotes is related to the English word despot. As absolute ruler, God has ownership rights over all mankind. Yet our master and Lord Jesus Christ became a man, suffered and died on the cross for his people. The absolute ruler is also our example of ultimate humility. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Not necessarily proud of this. I'm just telling you. This is Wretched Radio bringing you celebrity infotainment news of Christian interest. I hope that's what we're doing here. Let's get to it, shall we? Hey, Jimmy, guess who claims to be a Christian? Kathy Ireland. I told you so. I'm sorry, because you would have never guessed that Kathy Ireland is now 62 years old, the former supermodel. Apparently she's got quite a cottage industry going on. She grew up, she said, believing in God, but didn't have a personal relationship with him. Well, let's. No, we can't let that slide. Exactly. Because this, this particular story that gives her sort of testimony doesn't really. It gives very selective details and you never really fully hear the gospel. But this is, this is worth. This is the writing of Christian Post. She grew up believing in God but didn't have a personal relationship. Well, you see, in biblical Christianity, a personal relationship is believing in God. You don't believe in God without having a personal relationship. You don't have a personal relationship without believing in God. But I digress for a moment. This began to change when her mother returned to school to become a nurse and befriended a Christian classmate. My mom said, what is it with you? You have three teenage daughters. I have three teenage daughters, but you have this peace. And the woman said, jesus, Jimmy, what Bible verse jumps to mind for you when you hear that comment? What Bible verse? Yeah, what Bible? What is it with you? The mom asked the Christian coworker. What is it with you? First Peter 3:15.

[Fortis Institute Announcer/Narrator]

First Peter 3:15, I was thinking.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Exactly right. Oh, well, this is, this is precisely what Peter has in view. When he goes about the business of giving us mandates, he bakes it in the Gospel. But he tells the persecuted believers that he's writing to in Turkey, hey, you're a peculiar people be set about. You're a royal priesthood. You are supposed to be different. Now please remember he does all of this in the context of the gospel. So he is. He blends imperatives and indicatives way more than Paul did in Ephesians, which typically everybody goes, well, the first three chapters, that's nothing but indicative statements about the Gospel. Then he gets to the imperatives, not Peter. He mixes them together constantly because this do that, because Jesus did this, you should do that. So it's just intertwined, it's integrated, if you will. And Peter continues to make the point. Now remember, the context of 1 Peter is these people are being persecuted and Peter isn't telling them how to defend themselves or what weapons class to take. He's telling them what to be, not what to do when he's telling them to be holy, be different. And then he gives the reason for it. Finally, starting In, I think, 1 Peter 2:9, give or take, so that you can proclaim His Excellencies a little bit further down. You behave in such a way that it silences the mouth of people who would accuse you. And then in 1 Peter 3:15, be that you, that you are ready to give a reason for the hope that lies within you. What is the context of that? The context is you've been behaving in such a peculiar way. You've been so different that people are going to ask about the hope that lies within you. In other words, you're like Michael Jackson. Somebody is actually watching you. I always feel like, who was the guy that wasn't Michael Jackson. That was like the, the, the. The. The. The nephew of a big record producer. Rockwell. Oh, no. I'm really ashamed. Jimmy Rockwell. That was your favorite artist of the 80s, if I'm not mistaken. I think he was the nephew of Barry Gordy, if I'm not mistaken. I know Barry Gordy, and he didn't sing. He just talked through it. And then Michael Jackson came on. I always feel like somebody's watching me. But enough about Rockwell. Go ahead, ask me what I read in the book I'm reading right now. I put it down last night. Go ahead and ask me. I have no idea. Ask me about an obscure artist from the 80s. I got you covered. It was Rockwell. Somebody is watching you. That is the point of first Peter. And that is why he instructs us to be holy and to love one another. Now, here's where I think we need to drill a little bit deeper in our understanding of how our love can actually be a witness, a testimony to people. Because so much of our love seems to be behind closed doors. It's not a public display of affection. It is just how we live. Not just in church, but in family. So, for instance, you're a mom with babies. And you. By the way, Jimmy, I gotta tell you, there's a mom with a new baby. Baby number two.

[Fortis Institute Announcer/Narrator]

Oh, yeah.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Oh, I gotta tell you, I saw a beautiful thing. I saw a beautiful. They've got. They've got a brand new baby, like 2 weeks old. The older sister just turned 2 years old, and mom was walking through it and it was so sweet. She was asking her catechism questions, and the two year old was giving the answers. Oh, okay. So let's just use her. So that act of love, nobody sees that. So how can that be a testimony? Well, here's how it can be a testimony. She's training up her daughter to love Jesus, pointing her toward Jesus. Now, that is going to be somebody who lives differently. That is going to be somebody who behaves differently, who interacts differently in our culture. In other words, the love that goes on behind closed doors ultimately does manifest itself out there. You are making a difference. You are testifying to the grace of God when you change a diaper because you're raising up a child in the fear, the admonition of the Lord. And the world is watching, and they see it. They see the way then you interact with your children out in public. They're watching. That's Peter's point. So be loving toward one another. Baked, of course, in the gospel, because You've been born again of the imperishable word, the imperishable seed of the word of God. In other words, the gospel from the word. Love one another. Jimmy, we preached on this Sunday morning. Would you have guessed that at Alpharetta Bible Church?

[Fortis Institute Announcer/Narrator]

First Peter.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Yeah, First Peter. Yeah, that's exactly where we are. I got a question for you. Here's a little quiz question for you.

[Fortis Institute Announcer/Narrator]

Okay.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

What type. Do you remember the different types of love in the Greek language?

[Fortis Institute Announcer/Narrator]

Yes.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Okay. Go.

[Fortis Institute Announcer/Narrator]

Agape.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Yeah. Oh, gosh.

[Fortis Institute Announcer/Narrator]

Agape.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Filet.

[Fortis Institute Announcer/Narrator]

Oh, filet. Oh, and filet O. Is that what it is?

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

I think that's what you do with the fish. Oh, that's the.

[Fortis Institute Announcer/Narrator]

That's the Covington way of saying it.

[Representative Michael Cloud]

Yeah.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Or, you know, a good steak. Oh, the filet. Oh, the filet. O mignon is. Is. Is delicious. What it is. You got filet. Oh, you got eros. Love.

[Fortis Institute Announcer/Narrator]

Eros. That's it. That's it.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Yeah. That's a romantic love. File love tends to be brotherly love and affection. Agape love. Tell me what agape love is.

[Fortis Institute Announcer/Narrator]

Unconditional.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Okay, fair enough. Any other descriptors?

[Fortis Institute Announcer/Narrator]

That's the love that God loves sets on us.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

All right, then here's the question. Does agape contain any element of warm affection?

[Fortis Institute Announcer/Narrator]

Yeah, I would say so.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Well, then you are. Contrary to, I think, decades of probably pretty conservative scholarship.

[Fortis Institute Announcer/Narrator]

Really?

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Yeah, I think so. But good news, hang in there, because I think you're right. We went through a phase. I remember this so vividly. First getting saved. Agape love is the highest form of love. That's the highest form because it's volitional, not emotional. In other words, you just do it even when you don't feel like doing it. That's love. It is an emotionless, volitional. It doesn't matter how I feel about you. I do it anyway. Now, there is a big amount of truth in that. Agape is not predicated on feelings. But that doesn't mean, according to much more recent scholarship, that feelings aren't involved in agape. So it is a different type of love than phileo, which is a warm, brotherly affection love. Agape is. Even if I don't have those feelings, I'm still going to do for you. But that doesn't mean that agape is void of feelings. Now, I know this gets into the doctrine of impassibility. It leads us to talk about anthropopathisms. You heard me. I said anthropopathisms. These are descriptors of God's emotions, his emotions, his affections, they're different than ours in that they're not responsive, they don't react, they're predetermined, they're steady, they're exactly right. But, and I know that there are people who are very firm on the doctrine of impassibility would say, no, no, no, no, there's no emotion in them at all. I don't think that recent scholarship is affirming that when it comes to the word agape. Furthermore, doesn't it have implications that agape is just I'm supposed to love you, even if I don't feel anything toward you, I'm supposed to just love God. Agape, God without any warm feelings. Doesn't that seem to feel a little bit flat? Well, despite how it feels, I think biblically now it is argued that agape, yes, it is predominantly volitional, but that does not mean it is not warmly emotional. This is wretched radio.

[Fortis Institute Announcer/Narrator]

There's a lot of Christian content out there that sounds deep, but it actually isn't. It's inspirational, it's nice, but it doesn't actually help you when life gets hard. Forda's forums are completely different. We're talking about how to comfort someone who's grieving and what scripture actually says, not just what sounds nice. We're talking about marriage, when things aren't easy and many mental health and whether the Bible has real answers. Biblical manhood for a generation that's never been really given a model to follow. These are in depth conversations with people like Dr. Jason Lyle, Libby Glossin, Dr. Adam Tyson and Dr. John Kratz. Teachers who take the Bible seriously and don't shy away from the hard topics. These Fortis forums are all on Fortis for you to watch right now for free. And they're ready when you are. Just download the app wherever you download apps on your smartphone, your smart TV. Or just simply go to fortisplus.org and see what biblical depth actually looks like. You know that moment at 3am when you can't sleep, everything is quiet and you're alone with the truth about who you really are versus who everyone thinks you are. Your wife trusts you, your kids look up to you, the guys at church think you've got it all together. But you know better. You know the secret battles, the deleted history, the promises you keep breaking to yourself and to God. Here's what took me way too long to figure out. You can't fix a spiritual problem with human solutions. Accountability software won't change your heart. White Knuckling it through another week won't either. And Todd Friel is getting to the heart of this issue with his resource, Play the Man. It doesn't give you another list of rules. It shows you how Christ actually changes men from the inside out, how he replaces the wanting, not just the doing. The man your family deserves. That guy is possible, but not through your own strength. It's going to be through the strength of Christ working through you. Play the Man. It's available now as an e book, an audiobook, and a video series [e-mail] because real men know when they need real help. Thanks for listening to Wretched Radio today. You know what's rare? Finding something that makes you laugh and makes you think at the same time. And that's why we've brought in Gary Varville. Gary is an award winning, winning cartoonist, and every week he draws in an original creation just for Fortis Institute. They're sharp, they're funny, and they usually make a point that sticks with you a little bit longer than you expected it to. And something else you'll find at Fortis Institute is Fortis News, which is hosted by yours truly. These are up to the minute headlines that matter to Christians and they're told from a biblical worldview. There's no spin, there's no agenda. It's just the news with a Christian perspective. And both of these things part of what we're building in Fortis Institute, and both are made possible by our gospel partners. If you have been help and you appreciate the content that we're creating at Fortis Institute, would you consider supporting us so that we can reach more people in more places all over the world? It's really simple. We know you have questions, so we have [e-mail] Wretched Amazing Grace. Amazing gospel.

[Todd Friel]

Attributes of God. What does God speak patience look like? Second Peter, chapter three, verse nine says, the Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. God is not hurried, nor has he forgotten his promises. God will bring about the fulfillment of his eternal plan in due time. This is Wretched Radio with Todd Friel.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

Yes, yes, Jimmy. He was a painter too. Very good. This is Wretched Rad. Who, Who's Rockwell from the 80s?

[Fortis Institute Announcer/Narrator]

He's the. He's the painter guy. Norman.

[Host of Wretched Radio (likely Todd Friel or a co-host)]

That's right. And he sang with Michael Jackson. Let's just move on, shall we? Did I mention this is Redshid Radio. I'm telling you, the world is watching. They definitely are watching the people that surround you in your hood. They're watching you because they know you're a Christian. They watch everything. They notice how you mow the lawn. They notice how you drive your car. They notice how you take care of your property. They notice how you interact with one another. They're watching you. And that is why we are to be royal priests set apart people peculiar to them, so that they ask about the hope that lies within us, especially when they go about the business of persecuting us and we don't respond in sinful ways. They want to know, all right, who. Who's your sa. That's what. That's what Kathy Ireland's testimony is about. Her mom met somebody at work who was just different, and she actually asked about the. What. What is it about you? And the woman was able to say, jesus, that should be encouraging to you. Love one another because the world is watching. Jimmy, I saw an interesting. It's. It's real. This is one of those debates that I think is on the healthier side of Tish Raiden theological table talk where we try to figure out the character and the nature of God. Sometimes I think those explorations can go to places that just aren't profitable. That it's like we're just kind of. We're in a realm that I'm not sure we should be in. Well, understanding emotions, I think is a worthwhile pursuit because I think that there are implications, for instance, to the people who would be strict impassibility people, meaning God doesn't have passions, meaning he doesn't have human emotions, period, the way that we do. I personally, I think that's problematic. My. The one. The primary reason for me, okay, primary or secondary, one of the two is that that would indicate that we actually possess something God doesn't. And that doesn't seem quite write to me that the creature has more than the Creator does. Furthermore, the Bible actually uses emotional descriptors of God. And I think the implications of denying that he actually has what I'll call feelings is massive. Does the Father have feelings toward the Son or does he just will to love the Son? You go, well, that does seem strange, doesn't it? And I affirm that I agree with that. Now said this, that I think that God's emotions, they are different than ours because we see a sunset, we go, oh, God doesn't see a sunset and react his emotions, if you will, they're predetermined. They're settled. They're always accurate and right. They do not experience the noetic effect of the fall. So God, I think, actually has emotions, but he's not emotional. He's not like a kid who needs a nap or somebody who gets hangry. He has emotions, but he's not emotional. He's not whiplash. He's not being whipped on the waves of feelings because of what is going on around him. Having said that, we do need to deal with what people would call anthropopathisms. Go ahead and say that after me. Anthropopathisms. You probably heard the word anthropomorphisms. These are words like under the wings of God, the shelter of his wings. Does God have wings? No, it's an anthropomorphism. It's using a description that we understand to get doesn't mean that God has wings. It means that he's protective, like a mother hen would be. He'd like somebody protecting his chicks. He doesn't actually. It's just a descriptor. Well, people would say that the words, for instance, grieving the Holy Spirit, God was angry. For instance, God is angry at the wicked every day. It doesn't mean that he has emotions. It's an anthropopathism to describe so that we can understand God's response to what I shouldn't say response, God's attitude toward what he is witnessing. I don't think that that argument can sustain itself. I know really good people who would say. In fact, I just saw a video, Kevin DeYoung. I don't know what conference it was. It was. Kevin DeYoung was on the panel and there were other Presbyterians there because Kevin's a Presbyterian and John Piper. And it appeared that the lead and I just saw a snippet of the clip that John Piper was saying, okay, when it comes to grieving the Holy Spirit is he actually grieved. And so he asked Kevin DeYoung, who did a treatment on anthropopathisms, and he explained, he talked about his understanding of the Impassibility doctrine. And I got to tell you once again, that dude is smart. Kevin DeYoung, I'm telling you, when. When you look at like, okay, who are. Who will be a big boy whose shoulders can handle some theological weight. I think a guy like Kevin DeYoung is one of those guys. It was evident he knows his stuff. He was speaking off the cuff, and he was. Most of it I just agreed with. But then when he came to the conclusion that an anthropopathism it allows them to remain consistent in their impassibility doctrine. John Piper and I wish that he had gone more. He kind of pressed in, so what is the relationship? And he was speaking about grieving the Holy Spirit. So if it's not grief, well, what is it? I understand with an anthropomorphism what it's trying to express, but what about an anthropopathism? What is it? What is. Okay, so the Holy Spirit, if he's not like grieved the way that we experience it, what is it trying to communicate to us if not a feeling? And that's where the clip ended, which was a bummer. Now the implications for this, and remember, you don't want to have the implications inform your understanding of the impassibility doctrine or anthropopathisms. That would be to reason backwards biblically, the implications flow out of what the text actually says. So I want to make sure that we don't put the cart before the horse in this. But I do believe there are really big implications to the understanding of emotions and affections. Because if God doesn't experience any affections, any emotions the way that at least that we understand them, then our relationship with him is far more transactional than it is relational. And when I read the Bible I see relationship all the time. Sorry. One Peter, he calls us obedient children. Children. And the title that Peter uses for God regularly is Father. Those are familial terms, those are relational terms, those are affectionate terms. And if we understand that God is just more. I don't want to put this in a way that would seem like I'm taking a cheap shot at those who affirm a really strict impassibility view. But if God doesn't feel anything, then our relationship with him is. It's not what I see. Romans 5:1 presenting that we are brought into a relationship. The doctrine of adoption I think would be compromised and undermined because, well, it would be, well, I'm going to let the kid live in the house, I'm going to provide for the kids needs, but I have no feeling I'm going to do good things for the kid. But no feelings. And you go, well that doesn't Hoofta. That's right, I said hoofta. That just doesn't feel real good. Now remember, that's an implication, that's not an argument. Nevertheless, I think it's big. Furthermore, because we are supposed to love one another and there are about five or six instances where phileo is used to describe our love for one another. So we should have brotherly affection. In fact, I think it's 1 Peter 2:22 since you've been born again. He actually uses an Old Testament phrase based on Exodus 19:10, but it's an Old Testament phrase. Since you've washed, you've purified yourself. It's just using Old Testament language to talk about New Testament inner purification. Through hearing the Gospel you have phileo for one another. In other words, when you're born again, you love the brethren. Warm, friendly, familiar. Romans 14 talks about phileoing one another. But then we're also supposed to agape one another. We are supposed to show our love in action. And as I think current scholarship, Thomas Schreiner, Andreas Kestenberger and every Puritan incidentally talked about even though their doctrine of impassibility, they talked about warm affections with God, that it isn't something that is just chilly and transactional, it is something that is familial and it is warm and it is deep and it is rich and it is what motivates us then to be holy. Now we have to remember God's warm love for us isn't because we're so squishy lovable. Why does he love us so? And the answer is clear because it is repeated about 30 times in the New Testament. It is because we are in Christ. We are in union with Christ. And the love that the Father has for the Son, he now has for us, not because we're lovable, but because. Because he loves the sun. And until tomorrow go serve your King.