Driverless: Waymo and the Robotaxi Race—Under the Hood

Summary

WSJ Tech News Briefing: Driverless – Waymo and the Robotaxi Race—Under the Hood

Release Date: December 15, 2024 | Host: The Wall Street Journal

---

Introduction

In the latest episode of WSJ Tech News Briefing, titled "Driverless: Waymo and the Robotaxi Race—Under the Hood", host Danny Lewis delves deep into the competitive landscape of the autonomous vehicle industry. Focusing on Waymo's continued dominance, the episode contrasts its advancements with Tesla's ambitious forays into driverless technology and explores the broader implications for the future of robotaxis.

Tesla’s Bold Step into Driverless Technology

The episode opens with a recount of Tesla's high-profile unveiling of its first prototype driverless car in October. CEO Elon Musk showcased the futuristic Cyber Cab during a meticulously staged event at Warner Brothers Studios in Burbank, California.

Elon Musk [01:04]: "As you can see, I just arrived in the Robo Taxi, the cyber cab."

The demonstration featured a sleek, gull-winged two-seater vehicle devoid of a steering wheel, brake or accelerator pedals, and side-view mirrors—marking Tesla’s definitive pivot to entirely driverless vehicles.

Elon Musk [01:19]: "Future is here and it feels great."

Despite the spectacle, the event lacked substantive details on the business model and technological specifics, leading to investor unease and a subsequent nearly 9% drop in Tesla shares—the company's worst day in 2024.

Waymo’s Established Lead in the Robotaxi Market

Contrasting Tesla's theatrical debut, Waymo, backed by Alphabet, has already established a robust presence in the real world. Operating in Los Angeles, Waymo’s robo taxis are available for public hailing across 63 square miles, offering autonomous rides without the need for a human driver on board.

Danny Lewis [02:07]: "Members of the public can already hail a driverless car to get around Los Angeles."

Waymo currently conducts approximately 150,000 paid rides weekly across four cities, significantly outpacing competitors like Tesla and Amazon's Zoox, which remain in testing phases.

Technological Divergence: LiDAR vs. Camera-Based Systems

A pivotal discussion centers on the differing technological approaches within the industry, particularly the use of LiDAR versus camera-based systems for autonomous driving.

Elon Musk [05:12]: "Anyone relying on LIDAR is doomed."

While Waymo and Zoox employ LiDAR sensors to map and interpret their surroundings, Tesla has opted to rely solely on cameras and artificial intelligence algorithms, eliminating the costly LiDAR components. This "end-to-end machine learning" approach allows Tesla to use real-world data from its fleet to train its AI systems without manual programming for every scenario.

Phil Koopman [06:12]: "Camera goes in one end, wheels spinning, comes out the other end. It's all machine learning through and through."

However, experts like Professor Phil Koopman from Carnegie Mellon University caution that while camera-based systems may handle common driving situations effectively, they struggle with rare or complex scenarios, raising safety concerns.

Economic Pressures and Cost Challenges

The financial feasibility of operating a robo taxi service presents significant challenges. Waymo’s vehicles cost approximately $125,000 each, factoring in Jaguar I-Pace SUVs, multiple LiDAR units, cameras, and radar systems, compared to Tesla’s estimated $25,000 to $30,000 per Cyber Cab.

Shweta Kajuria [10:26]: "The cost of a fully autonomous car, as it stands today with Waymo, includes the cost of the cars."

Additionally, Waymo incurs substantial expenses in computing power, research, and maintenance, leading to projections that it might take up to 10 years to break even on its $15 to $20 billion capital investment.

Strategic Partnership with Uber

In a strategic move to enhance operational efficiency and market reach, Waymo announced a partnership with Uber to integrate its robo taxis into Uber’s platform in Austin, Texas, and Atlanta, Georgia. Under this agreement, Uber assumes responsibilities for vehicle maintenance and ride booking, while sharing revenue generated from Waymo rides.

Elon Musk [13:05]: "You could see that easily driving more adoption of Waymo as long as enough people opt in."

This collaboration is seen as a blueprint for Waymo to expand into new cities without the high costs associated with scaling operations independently. However, it also raises questions about rider adoption and the seamless integration of driverless technology into existing ride-hailing ecosystems.

Path to Profitability and Future Prospects

Waymo faces the dual challenge of reducing operational costs and increasing ride adoption to achieve profitability. High vehicle costs and the expensive nature of end-to-end AI technologies remain significant hurdles. Additionally, maintaining a competitive pricing structure is imperative to attract and retain riders who might otherwise opt for cheaper, human-driven alternatives.

Shweta Kajuria [17:42]: "We did an experiment with 20 rides within San Francisco and 20 different ride requests within Phoenix... Waymo was consistently approximately 25 to 30% more expensive than an Uber ride."

Despite these challenges, Waymo continues to focus on expanding its market presence, recently announcing plans to launch its service in Miami, Florida, by 2026.

Waymo's potential shift towards licensing its technology to other automotive manufacturers, rather than operating its own fleet, presents another avenue for revenue generation. Analysts suggest that partnerships and technology integration could provide higher-margin returns, essential for long-term sustainability.

Shweta Kajuria [19:05]: "We are more likely, in my view, to see a scenario in the next three to five years whereby way more technology is then integrated into [other automakers]... Waymo gets a high margin licensing fee for that technology."

Investor Confidence and Industry Outlook

Waymo’s strategic maneuvers have attracted substantial investor confidence, evidenced by a recent $5.6 billion investment from firms including Andreessen Horowitz, Silver Lake, and Tiger Global. Investors praise Waymo's balanced approach to ambitious goals and responsible execution, emphasizing its leading position in the market.

Tiger Global Founder Chase Coleman [19:23]: "Waymo had balanced ambitious goals with responsible execution."

Silver Lake Co CEO Egon Durbin [19:23]: "Waymo's driving technology leads in earning trust."

With competitors like General Motors stepping back from the robo taxi race, Waymo's lead appears to be widening, positioning the company as a pivotal player as the industry evolves.

Miles Krupa [21:30]: "If you can get the name recognition with people that associate self driving cars with Waymo and you feel safe in Waymo, building that brand loyalty right now might really pay off..."

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a nuanced perspective on Waymo’s future, highlighting both the immense potential and the substantial challenges that lie ahead. As Waymo navigates the intricate balance between technological innovation, operational efficiency, and market expansion, its journey offers critical insights into the evolving landscape of autonomous transportation.

---

Notable Contributors:

• Danny Lewis: Host and Producer
• Miles Krupa: WSJ Tech Reporter
• Megan Bobrowski: WSJ Tech Reporter
• Shweta Kajuria: Analyst, Wolf Research
• Phil Koopman: Professor, Carnegie Mellon University
• Elon Musk: CEO of Tesla

---

For those interested in the cutting-edge developments in autonomous vehicle technology and the competitive dynamics of the robotaxi industry, this episode offers a comprehensive and insightful analysis.

Transcript

[Merrill Lynch]

Say this is your financial life. Over time, things can get more complex. With a personalized plan, Merrill can help you navigate it all. Learn [e-mail] Bullish Merrill, a bank of America company what would you like the power to do?

[Merrill Lynch Compliance]

Investing Involves risk Merrill Lynch, Pierce Fenner and Smith Incorporated Registered Broker Dealer Registered Investment Advisor Member SIPC a wholly owned subsidiary of bank of America Corp.

[Danny Lewis]

Back in October, after years of pledging, its self driving technology was just around the corner, electric vehicle maker Tesla finally unveiled its first prototype driverless car. Tesla CEO Elon Musk walked out to techno music alongside someone wearing a SpaceX spacesuit. Waving to the crowd, he stepped into the passenger side of a sleek gull winged two seater vehicle which drove off to the main stage. No driver behind the steering wheel and actually no steering wheel at all.

[Elon Musk]

As you can see, I just arrived in the Robo Taxi, the cyber cab, musk said.

[Danny Lewis]

These vehicles were designed to be entirely driverless. No steering wheels, no brake or accelerator pedals, no side view mirrors, even autonomous.

[Elon Musk]

Future is here and it feels great.

[Danny Lewis]

It was a flashy and tightly choreographed event held on a set at Warner Brothers Studios in Burbank, California. But it was light on details about the business and the cars, and that left some investors disappointed. The day after the event, Tesla Shares fell almost 9% in one of its worst days in 2024. Meanwhile, out in the real world, just a short drive over the Hollywood Hills, members of the public can already hail a driverless car to get around Los Angeles. Owned, operated and designed by the biggest name in the business, Waymo Robo Taxis are officially in service in LA. You can now order a ride across 63 square miles from downtown LA to Santa Monica without being forced to chit.

[Elon Musk]

Chat with the driver.

[Danny Lewis]

If that's not your thing, streets only.

[Shweta Kajuria]

No highway driving at this point.

[Danny Lewis]

This is what we gotta get used to.

[Miles Krupa]

Again, the future is here.

[Danny Lewis]

Waymo's robo taxi business is still way ahead of Tesla and other rivals like Amazon's Zoox. As of October, Waymo says it's conducting 150,000 paid rides a week across the four cities it's operating in while its competitors are still testing their technology. But even with the multibillion dollar bet Google's parent company Alphabet, is making on Waymo and its expansion into new markets, how can it maintain its lead in the robo taxi race? And how might the industry change as the efforts to build and popularize driverless car technology continue? I'm Danny Lewis and this is Waymo and the Robo Taxi Race A series from the Wall Street Journal's Future of Everything we're looking at what it would take for Waymo to stay at the top of the growing industry with its rivals snapping at its heels. Today, Episode two Under the Hood that's after the break.

[Merrill Lynch]

You want a straightforward path to your goals, but at Merrill, we know things may get in the way or new opportunities can put you at a crossroads with the bull at your back.

[Danny Lewis]

I found a better route.

[Merrill Lynch]

You get a personalized plan and a clear path forward. Go to ML.combullish to learn more. Merrill, a Bank of America company what would you like the power to do?

[Merrill Lynch Compliance]

Investing involves risk Merrill Lynch Pierce Veneran Smith Incorporated Registered Broker Dealer Registered Investment Advis sipc, a wholly owned subsidiary of bank of America Corp.

[Danny Lewis]

In our last episode we talked about how Waymo went from a slow and steady approach to developing driverless cars to first place and continuing to accelerate. But the company is facing some challenges on this next lap of the race and it's also a crucial time for the industry as a whole. So let's start with some of Waymo's competition, namely Tesla. As we just heard, Elon Musk's electric vehicle company is making a very high profile pivot to driverless cars.

[Elon Musk]

We saw Elon's vision for how he wants to roll out this technology.

[Danny Lewis]

WSJ tech reporter Miles Krupa we got.

[Elon Musk]

A small sedan that he wants to be carrying passengers as a robo taxi and we got a larger van that he thinks will be able to shuttle upwards of a dozen people at a time.

[Danny Lewis]

From the outside, the robo taxi or cyber cab looks similar to the Teslas already on the roads. The van though is a retro futuristic looking vehicle, all rounded edges and sharp lines. Very art deco. But there are other ways that Tesla is an outlier in the driverless car industry.

[Elon Musk]

There's been this divide in the self driving car industry for a long time about whether you need LiDAR or not to achieve fully autonomous driving.

[Danny Lewis]

Those are the laser based sensors that let a driverless car detect what's around it in real time. If you've ever seen a Waymo and wondered what the spinning cylinders mounted on its sides are, those are lidar sensors.

[Elon Musk]

Waymo and Zoox taking the approach that you need LiDAR.

[Danny Lewis]

While Tesla uses LiDAR for data gathering, Musk has said he thinks cameras are enough for self driving cars. He talked about this at Tesla's Autonomy Day event back in April 2019.

[Elon Musk]

Anyone relying on LIDAR is doomed.

[Shweta Kajuria]

Expensive sensors that are unnecessary.

[Danny Lewis]

Tesla stopped installing LIDAR sensors in some of its cars in October 2022. Instead, its full self driving and autopilot systems rely on cameras that are cheaper than LIDAR and artificial intelligence algorithms. Then, what's called an end to end neural network takes in raw data and translates it into the vehicle's actions.

[Merrill Lynch Compliance]

The deal with end to end is to say, you know what, we're not going to write code, we're just going to show a ton of examples.

[Danny Lewis]

Phil Copeman studies driverless cars and how to make them safe at Carnegie Mellon University.

[Merrill Lynch Compliance]

Camera goes in one end, wheels spinning, comes out the other end. It's all machine learning through and through. Thus end to end machine learning.

[Danny Lewis]

That means instead of Tesla programmers manually writing instructions for how future driverless cars should handle any given situation, the company can take data and video from all the Teslas out there on the road and feed it into an AI program.

[Merrill Lynch Compliance]

It's sort of like training a pet. If the pet does something you don't like, you say bad dog and that's it. That's all it knows. Well, we try something else and eventually it gets good dog.

[Danny Lewis]

Koopman says if you have enough data, this method could actually make it a lot easier to get driverless cars to behave naturally in common situations.

[Merrill Lynch Compliance]

Driving down the street, taking a corner in the way a human driver would take a corner. Here's what the human driver did. You should learn how to do the same thing.

[Danny Lewis]

But Koopman says end to end machine learning is not good at knowing how to respond to rare situations. And that's where questions about safety come into play.

[Merrill Lynch Compliance]

How do you train it when it's time to cross the WL line to avoid a crash? How do you train it to deal with fire trucks with the lights on? If you haven't seen many, how do you train it not to drive into a covered road that might be floodwater?

[Danny Lewis]

These are all issues that have cropped up with Tesla's current technology. Earlier this year, a Wall Street Journal investigation into Data from over 200 crashes involving Tesla's autopilot found that cars using the system sometimes struggle to recognize objects or stay on the road. We reached out to Tesla for this series and the company did not respond to requests for comment. Another big difference between Tesla and the other players in the driverless car world. Musk's company doesn't have the required California state permits to test its vehicles without a driver present. A spokesperson for the California Department of Motor Vehicles said Tesla has had a permit to test self driving cars with a safety driver since 2015, which is set to expire at the end of 2024. They also said Tesla has not applied for a driverless testing or or deployment permit.

[Miles Krupa]

There's different levels of autonomous driving and you need different permits to do different levels of this driving.

[Danny Lewis]

Megan Bobrowski is a tech reporter for the Journal. The levels generally used by the driverless car industry to measure autonomous capabilities are developed by the global standards organization SAE International. They range from zero purely support systems for a human driver, like automatic emergency braking or blind spot warnings, to five, which would be a car that can drive itself anywhere under all conditions. Waymo says its vehicles operate at level four because they only drive in areas the company has mapped out.

[Miles Krupa]

So they have all these permits and they've done what they're doing with LIDAR and cameras. Tesla currently its cars operate at a like level 2.

[Danny Lewis]

SAE International defines that as the highest level of driver support features, which still requires constant supervision and is not considered automated driving.

[Miles Krupa]

Elon Musk has said that will change and I think the next year is going to be really interesting to follow and in the next year we'll see. Can you do self driving cars with just cameras? I think that's a big question mark.

[Danny Lewis]

Especially since some of the other companies chasing Waymo's success, like Amazon's Zoox, also use LIDAR and radar as well as cameras. But while the sensors are similar, conducting more limited operations, Zoox is still testing passenger rides in its driverless vehicles, which like Tesla's Cyber Cab, lack steering wheels and brake and accelerator pedals. Zoox says those are on the roads in one neighborhood in San Francisco. The streets of a suburb just south of the city and in Las Vegas, including on the Strip. But the cost of the technology is one reason why Musk is so keen on sticking with cameras. And end to end AI cost is a challenge that everyone in the driverless car industry is facing because running a robo taxi company is expensive. Starting with the cars themselves, let's just.

[Shweta Kajuria]

Take Waymo as an example.

[Danny Lewis]

Shweta Kajuria is an analyst with market research firm Wolf Research. She follows Waymo as part of her.

[Shweta Kajuria]

Work at a high level. The cost of a fully autonomous car, as it stands today with Waymo, includes the cost of the cars.

[Danny Lewis]

Waymo currently uses Jaguar I paces electric.

[Shweta Kajuria]

SUVs, so approximately $50,000. Then on top of that there are different units of LiDAR. About four units of those cost about another seven to eight thousand dollars. Plus there are cameras that cost about two to three thousand dollars and then on top of that radar, another two.

[Danny Lewis]

To three thousand, Kajuria says. Altogether, she estimates that each Waymo vehicle costs about $125,000. A Waymo spokesperson declined to comment.

[Shweta Kajuria]

Just for context, we think maybe 25 to 30,000 for Tesla.

[Danny Lewis]

During the unveiling event we heard earlier, Elon Musk said he expects the Tesla Cyber Cab to cost less than $30,000. But in addition to the cost of the cars, Kajuria says all the computing power and research and maintenance that goes into the robo taxi business is likely costing Waymo and Alphabet billions of dollars per year. A Waymo spokesperson declined to comment. Alphabet did not respond to a request for comment.

[Shweta Kajuria]

The going consensus view is about three to five year lead that Waymo has over anyone else in the industry. What does Waymo need to do in.

[Danny Lewis]

Order to keep that leadership and to become profitable? We'll look at what's next for Waymo's future and the business of driverless cars. After the breakfast.

[Merrill Lynch]

Say this is your financial life. Over time, things can get more complex. With a personalized plan, Merrill can help you navigate it all. Learn [e-mail] Bullish Merrill, a Bank of America company what would you like the power to do?

[Merrill Lynch Compliance]

Investing involves risk Merrill Pierce Veteran Smith Incorporated Registered Broker Dealer Registered Investment Advisor Member sipc a wholly owned subsidiary of bank of America Corp.

[Danny Lewis]

Right now, members of the public can hail Waymo in a handful of cities. San Francisco of course, but also Los Angeles and Phoenix, Arizona. But that will soon change. In September, Waymo announced that it's partnering with Uber to bring paid robo taxi rides to Uber's platform in two new cities, Austin, Texas and Atlanta, Georgia. This deal has some interesting details, first being that Uber will take over all vehicle maintenance and ride booking. WSJ tech reporter Miles Krupa Uber is.

[Elon Musk]

Bearing the cost of cleaning, repairing these vehicles, storage operations, a lot of the sort of nitty gritty of running these vehicles in these local markets.

[Danny Lewis]

But there's a chance that Uber riders in Atlanta and Austin could get caught off guard when a hailed car shows up without a driver. Uber might automatically assign them a Waymo unless they intentionally opt out or decline the car within a certain time period.

[Elon Musk]

You could see that easily driving more adoption of Waymo as long as enough people opt in.

[Danny Lewis]

In exchange, the two companies will share the revenue from the Waymo rides. If you haven't been keeping up with all the ins and outs of this technology, you may not realize that Uber has a complicated relationship with driverless cars. At one point it had Its own research division focused on the technology. But in 2017, Waymo sued the ride hailing company for allegedly stealing and using trade secrets. Uber agreed to settle in February 2018, but then the next month, one of its test vehicles driving in Tempe, Arizona, struck and killed a pedestrian crossing a street, while the safety driver behind the wheel was distracted by watching TV on her phone. And in 2020, Uber got rid of its driverless car division entirely. An Uber spokesperson said the company's current approach to autonomous driving is to partner with vehicle developers, fleet operators, and cities, including with Waymo, for rides in Phoenix, though Waymo also operates its own app there. But Miles says this new deal is different.

[Elon Musk]

Uber has a huge base of people who have downloaded the app, and so by getting it in front of more people, it increases the likelihood that people will be calling their cars throughout the day.

[Danny Lewis]

The theory being that as more people ride in Waymos, the more comfortable they'll become with riding in Waymos or other driverless cars. But also because the amount of time a robo taxi spends empty can have a big effect on how much money it makes the company.

[Miles Krupa]

You're not making money when you're driving test, Miles. You're only making money when you have paying passengers in the car.

[Danny Lewis]

WSJ tech reporter Megan Bobrowski looked at public data from Waymo's operations in California.

[Miles Krupa]

I crunched some numbers, and from September last year to May this year, nearly 40% of the miles that Waymo drove did not have passengers in them.

[Danny Lewis]

A Waymo spokesperson says the company is working to reduce the number of miles its cars drive without passengers. Some of that mileage may be from testing. But unlike a ride hailing company where drivers are only paid when they have riders in the car, Waymo cars have extra costs associated with their technology, which makes getting the vehicles onto services that already have a lot of users like Uber, really important.

[Elon Musk]

That reduces the amount of miles that the cars are driving without paying passengers. And that kind of density of use is really important for Waymo to get to profitability ultimately. So you can kind of see them thinking a bit more about how they're going to turn this into a real business.

[Danny Lewis]

Waymo isn't giving up its own app yet, though. In early December, the company announced plans to bring its Waymo One robo taxi service to Miami, Florida, in 2026. But Miles says this is still a big challenge that Waymo and its rivals are going to have to contend with as they try to make back their investments.

[Elon Musk]

On the flip side, they don't have to pay drivers. And so the calculation becomes for each car that you put on the road, how many miles can you get out of the car? And then of those miles, how many are paying passengers? And then for each ride with paying passengers, how does the revenue you're bringing in compare to the costs? Those are kind of the economics that the company and its investors are thinking about right now.

[Danny Lewis]

A Waymo spokesperson said it only collects fares from paying passengers, but all miles driven provide meaningful experience to the automated driving system. Shweta Khajuria, the Wolf Research analyst, estimates it could take a while for Waymo to break even.

[Shweta Kajuria]

Assuming that Waymo has invested about 15 to 20 billion in capital investment. Even if you assume about 45 daily trips, which is three trips an hour, which is about where Uber is, and 20,000 vehicles, it would take them 10 years to even break even, which is a very long time.

[Danny Lewis]

A Waymo spokesperson declined to comment. Kajuria says a few things could shorten this timeline. First, rides have to be competitively priced.

[Shweta Kajuria]

We did an experiment with 20 rides within San Francisco and 20 different ride requests within Phoenix, two of the biggest markets for Waymo. And across those 40 different rides, Waymo was consistently approximately 25 to 30% more expensive than an Uber ride.

[Danny Lewis]

She says rides that are cheaper, or at least similar to what riders will pay for a person to drive them in a taxi will encourage more people to give Waymo a shot. Uber says riders who are matched with Waymo's in Austin and Atlanta will pay the same rates as if the app had assigned them a human driven car.

[Shweta Kajuria]

The more the usage, the more the price gap is going to narrow and we are just not there just yet.

[Danny Lewis]

But Kajuria says one reason the rides are so expensive is probably because the vehicles are so expensive. Like we said earlier. She estimates that each Waymo vehicle currently costs about $125,000 before getting into regular maintenance.

[Shweta Kajuria]

That is a huge amount of investment towards what it costs to insure the car, the hardware, the cost to serve, that is managing these units, and then the research that goes behind making the autonomous technology better every day.

[Danny Lewis]

But Katuria says there's another option Waymo could take to become profitable. Getting out of the day to day business of operating taxis entirely.

[Shweta Kajuria]

We are more likely, in my view, to see a scenario in the next three to five years whereby way more technology is then integrated into flow. Fords and Chryslers and Hyundai's Toyotas, et cetera. But Waymo gets a high margin licensing fee for that technology.

[Danny Lewis]

Waymo's partnership with Uber presents a potential blueprint for establishing markets in new cities as it tries to accelerate its growth. Though, new cities also mean new challenges for its technology.

[Merrill Lynch Compliance]

When these companies scale up, a lot of loose ends will become apparent because they're just more opportunities to have a problem.

[Danny Lewis]

Carnegie Mellon University Professor Phil Copeman all.

[Merrill Lynch Compliance]

These companies have pressure to make their investors happy, and the question is always Are the companies holding back the pressure well enough that they can expand their operations at a reasonable, prudent pace? Or are they succumbing to the pressure and ramping up faster than they should?

[Danny Lewis]

Some of Waymo's funders have expressed support for its efforts to get the execution right. In October, Waymo closed its latest investment round, raising $5.6 billion from firms including Andreessen Horowitz, Silver Lake and Tiger Global. In a statement at the time, Tiger Global founder Chase Coleman said Waymo had balanced ambitious goals with responsible execution, and Silver Lake Co CEO Egon Durbin said Waymo's driving technology leads in earning trust. A Waymo spokesperson said the company is not facing investor pressure to expand quickly and its expansion plans are guided by a safety framework. Over the last two years, Waymo has gone from getting just 10,000 paid rides a week to 150,000 across all its markets. And it announced plans to bring its driverless cars to three more major US Cities as the company tries to make the most out of its lead in the robo taxi race, a lead which just got wider. A few days ago, one of Waymo's biggest competitors announced it is abandoning its robo taxi efforts. General Motors will continue to work on self driving, but it's scrapping Cruise's work on robo taxis because of the time and costs needed to scale the business. GM invested upwards of $10 billion into Cruise. As for what might happen to Waymo and the driverless car industry at large, WSJ reporter Megan Bobrowski says this is Waymo's moment to find out now is.

[Miles Krupa]

The time for them to do this. There's no other competitors in the market and so if you can get the name recognition with people that associate self driving cars with Waymo and you feel safe in Waymo and so you're going to take away building that brand loyalty right now might really pay off for Waymo once other competitors do enter the market.

[Danny Lewis]

The Future of Everything is a production of the Wall Street Journal. Stephanie Ilgen Fritz is the Editorial Director of the Future of Everything. This episode was produced by me, Danny Lewis. Special thanks to Miles Krupa Megan Bobrowski and Becky Peterson. Our fact checker is Aparna Nathan. Michael Laval and Jessica Fenton are our sound designers and wrote our theme music. Catherine Millsop is our supervising producer. We had help from Section Editor Dagmar Alland, Aisha Al Muslim is our development producer, Scott Salloway and Chris Zinsley are the deputy editors and Philana Patterson is the head of News audio for the Wall Street Journal. Like the show? Tell your friends and leave us a five star review on your favorite platform. Thanks for listening.

[Merrill Lynch]

Say this is your financial life. Over time things can get more complex. With a personalized plan, Merrill can help you navigate it all. Learn more at ML. Com Bullish Merrill, a Bank of America company. What would you like the power to.

[Merrill Lynch Compliance]

Do Investing Involves risk Merrill Lynch Pierce Veneran Smith Inc. Registered Broker Dealer Registered Investment Advisor Member SIPC, a wholly owned subsidiary of bank of America Corp.