Tim Higgins (3:42)

And Elon Musk has really been a fixture as we've talked many times in the second Trump administration. But will this public criticism that he's had about what really is a hallmark so far of President Trump's second term, these tariffs, could that cause a further rift because the President said that Musk will leave the administration, quote, in a couple of months.

Victoria Craig (4:03)

It's interesting. The White House was asked about the rift and it was kind of chalked up to boys being boys. The comments to going back and forth between Musk and Navarro an illustration that all sides of debate are occurring and they're not only occurring at the White House, but in the public view. It is to your point though, one of the unique ways in which Musk has broken with Trump in a very public way. It doesn't seem just yet as if Trump and Musk are taking the break much further. We still see them working together. There is clearly though, an off ramp being developed for Musk to maybe dial back some of his involvement at the White House. He is a special government employee. That is a 130 day window of time. It is clear that the White House and Musk seem to be signaling that when that comes to an end, he's going to take a step back. He has many companies to run. Tesla is facing its own challenges and Musk has been spending a lot of time at the White House complex the last few months and, and investors of his companies would probably like to see him spend some of that time in Austin where Tesla is headquartered, or in south Texas where SpaceX has its launch facility.

Tim Higgins (5:27)

We talked earlier this week on the show about the nomination hearing for Jared Isaacman to head up NASA. Elon Musk was very influential in getting his friend and fellow billionaire nominated to that post. But was his vision Isaacman's slightly at odds with Musk's in the end, during his testimony? Musk's vision, of course, is for a strong push to prioritize a manned mission to Mars over a return of the moon. How did the hearing go on Capitol Hill for Isaacman?

Victoria Craig (5:55)

Well, Isaacman supports the idea of going to Mars, but it seems as if he's also very aware of the politics around returning to the moon. There's several senators who are very interested in that mission, and he voiced support for both the moon and Mars. And maybe that is some savvy politics on his part. It's important to keep Congress happy. At the end of the day, though, having somebody like him in NASA is important for Musk and his broader vision. It's clearly an ally, clearly somebody who subscribes to the ideas and ideals of what SpaceX is all about. He's been an investor. He's also been essentially a client of SpaceX. And and so I don't read it as some sort of major break or a bad sign for Musk, but rather Isaac man playing politics.

Tim Higgins (6:51)

That was WSJ columnist Tim Higgins. Coming up, when to embrace technology and when not to How Ohio's Amish community is split on the use of E bikes that story after the break.

Scott Calvert (7:08)

I was never really a runner. The way I see running is a gift, especially when you have stage four cancer. I'm Ann. I'm running the Boston Marathon. Presented by bank of America. I run for Dana Farber Cancer Institute to give people like me a chance to thrive in life, even with cancer. Join bank of America in helping Anne's cause. Give, if you can, at B of A Com supportan what would you like.

Tim Higgins (7:33)

The power to do? References to charitable organizations is not endorsement by bank of America Corporation. Copyright 2025. People in Big cities like New York and London lament the widespread use of electric bikes. Often that's because users ditch the bikes in bushes, abandoned them in the middle of the sidewalk, or whiz through red lights at top speed. In one part of Ohio, though, people are wary of E bike adoption for completely different reasons. WSJ reporter Scott Calvert traveled to Berlin, Ohio, where E bikes have become ubiquitous on the hilly roads of the world's second biggest Amish settlement. Scott for our listeners who aren't as familiar with the Amish community, just explain their general relationship with technology.

Scott Calvert (8:21)

Sure. So they have a general sort of wariness when it comes to adopting technology. They're not anti technology, but the way that they look at it is they want to see what will it do to their faith, their family, their community. And if they think that there's going to be a benefit, then they are willing to consider adopting it.

Tim Higgins (8:38)

And so what's particularly interesting now is that E bikes have surged in popularity among people in this community, particularly young people. How widespread is the adoption?

Scott Calvert (8:49)

It's very widespread. So when you are there, if you're on a fairly big road, you will not have to wait long before you see some Amish person riding by on their E bike. And particularly in the mornings and in the afternoons when people are riding them to work to jobs, you will see a fairly steady stream of people on e bikes. In Holmes County, Ohio, which is the second largest Amish community in the country, and the world for that matter, there are several groups within that umbrella, and some of the more conservative groups are very restrictive when it comes to technology. And in the context of bikes, they don't allow pedal bikes or electric bikes. Then there is this group called Old Order, which is a majority of that community. And most of the Old Order districts, which are sort of like parishes or congregations, they have approved electric bikes. And then there is a group called New Order. It's a little bit complicated, but they permit pedal bikes, but not the electric kind.

Tim Higgins (9:45)

And you talked to one bike shop owner who really put this surge in interest in perspective.

Scott Calvert (9:50)

Yeah, so he said it really started about a decade ago, and he pins it to 2016. And he said that it just kind of went wild then. Everybody wanted them. That's really when this sort of surge began. And it sort of has increased since then. People are saying that there are constantly more and more people who are buying E bikes, and at this point, replacing E bikes, his shop, 95% of what they sell are E bikes.

Tim Higgins (10:13)

And given what you explained about this relationship to technology and wanting to use certain kinds and not others, what's sort of the idea behind making e bikes an acceptable form of transportation?

Scott Calvert (10:24)

It's really convenience is what it comes down to, because increasingly, a lot of Amish people in this community have come off the family farm. They're working in this growing manufacturing sector. Oftentimes their work is five or ten miles away. And so if they didn't have the E bike, they could ride a pedal bike, but it's very hilly. They could go by horse and buggy, but that's slow. Or basically, these companies often supply vans, and so they could ride in the company van. They're not allowed to drive cars Amish, but they can ride, but that costs several dollars a day, and so that's expensive. So the E bike is seen as a convenient option that pretty quickly pays for itself over a relatively short period of time.

Tim Higgins (11:02)

I'm a fellow E Bike owner myself, so I can certainly attest to the convenience of it. But I think what's important to point out with this story too is that not everyone is thrilled with this widespread, can we call it, adoption of E bikes within this community? And it isn't about the power usage that these bikes have. It's more what the E bikes symbolize and what they could really do to family structures within the communities. Right?

Scott Calvert (11:26)

That's right. One thing people sometimes don't understand is that for many Amish, there are a fair amount of appliances that they have at home. So they use like natural gas or solar to power things like refrigerators and stoves and washing machines. They don't connect to the electric grid because they want to maintain some separation from the wider world. They don't drive cars, but they do use technology. And you'll see it at these companies. They have these generator powered tools that they use. But when it comes to the E bikes, it's not the power source, but it's sort of what it allows. It's this concern about the impact on the family, on the community. And so for the people who are critical of the E bikes and don't support them, the concern is that it makes it very easy for people to go off in their own direction. It's easy for teenagers to go places without parental supervision and maybe get into things they shouldn't. And so the flip side of the convenience is a concern that it just creates this sort of family separation and undermines that family unity.

Tim Higgins (12:21)

That was WSJ reporter Scott Calvert. And that's it for Tech News Briefing. Today's show was produced by Julie Chang. I'm your host, Victoria Craig. Additional support this week from Jess Jupiter and Matthew Walls. Jessica Fenton and Michael Lavalle wrote our theme music. Our supervising producer is Emily Martosi. Our development producer is Aisha Al Muslim. Scott Salloway and Chris Zinsley are the deputy editors. And Falana Patterson is the Wall Street Journal's head of news audio. We'll be back this afternoon with TNV Tech Minute. Thanks for listening.