Elon Musk Runs DOGE With His CEO Playbook

Summary

WSJ Tech News Briefing: Elon Musk Runs DOGE With His CEO Playbook Episode Release Date: February 14, 2025

Host: Julie Chang | The Wall Street Journal

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Introduction

In this episode of Tech News Briefing, Julie Chang delves into two major stories dominating the tech landscape: Elon Musk's unconventional management of the newly formed Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) and Amazon's contentious return-to-office mandate. The discussion provides insightful analysis on Musk's integration into government operations and the challenges faced by Amazon as it reinstates in-person work requirements.

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Elon Musk’s Leadership of DOGE: A CEO’s Playbook in Government

April 03:07 - Julie Chang Introduces the Topic

Julie Chang opens the segment by highlighting that it's been four weeks since Elon Musk assumed leadership of DOGE, an entity established to reduce government spending. She sets the stage for an in-depth conversation with WSJ columnist Tim Higgins about Musk's first 100 days within the Trump administration.

April 03:13 - Tim Higgins on Musk’s Initial Actions

Tim Higgins outlines Musk’s aggressive approach in various government agencies:

“He and his team have gone into several agencies. They had a hand in essentially gutting US Aid. They've gone into the Treasury, they have gone into other government agencies, and they have many more ahead, including the Department of Defense, the Department of Education.”
(03:13)

Higgins emphasizes Musk’s strategy of creating momentum, akin to his tactics in the private sector:

“This is a classic Silicon Valley mindset of move fast and break things, and he is applying that to government now.”
(03:57)

April 04:06 - The Concept of Momentum

Julie prompts Higgins to elaborate on Musk’s focus on maintaining momentum:

“It's really kind of a classic Silicon Valley mindset of move fast and break things, and he is applying that to government now.”
(03:57)

Higgins compares Musk’s actions in government to his leadership at Tesla:

“He made some dramatic changes. He made a lot of cuts in the workforce… part of a bigger cost reduction that he was taking in as he was making the case to investors that he was preparing Tesla essentially to be in fighting condition for the AI future.”
(04:06)

April 05:17 - Challenges of Running Government vs. a Corporation

The conversation shifts to the inherent differences between managing a government department and a private company:

“The government is just a total different beast for a lot of reasons. A, he's not elected. B, there are just so many different stakeholders who have a say and who play in all of this…”
(05:17)

Higgins notes the delicate balance Musk must maintain with President Trump:

“He is doing the will or the bidding of President Trump… there is this delicate dance between the two of them.”
(05:17)

April 06:32 - Political and Legal Reactions

Higgins discusses the political fallout and resistance from Democrats:

“Democrats, not surprisingly, are not happy with what's going on. They feel like important programs are being cut… We've already seen some of this taken to the courts.”
(06:32)

The segment highlights the potential for prolonged debates and legal battles over DOGE’s authority and actions.

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Amazon’s Return-to-Office Mandate: Navigating Employee Backlash

April 07:32 - Introduction to Amazon’s Policy

After a brief ad interruption, Julie shifts focus to Amazon’s recent decision to require its 350,000 corporate employees to return to the office five days a week starting January. She introduces WSJ reporter Katie Bill's insights on the implementation challenges.

April 08:46 - Details of the Mandate

Katie Bill explains Amazon’s rationale:

“Amazon back in September told its workers that as of January, they could expect to be required to be in the office five days a week… CEO Andy Jassy has previously told people that this is about collaborating, brainstorming, and that doing those things, it's just simpler and more effective if you do it in person.”
(08:46)

April 09:17 - Employee Challenges and Responses

Bill outlines the various obstacles employees are encountering:

“One issue is not everyone has assigned seating, so they might have to walk around and find a different place to set up camp for the day… commutes are a big thing that people are not necessarily thrilled with.”
(09:17)

She highlights extreme cases, such as AWS employees facing relocation requirements:

“Employees were told that they would need to relocate to a handful of cities… Some employees ended up raising some issues about it potentially violating local laws.”
(10:31)

April 10:34 - Amazon’s Response to the Reporting

Amazon responds by asserting the majority of its workforce has dedicated workspaces:

“Amazon is a huge company… the majority of people do have dedicated workspaces and that they have hundreds of offices around the world…”
(10:34)

April 11:39 - Employee Sentiments and Broader Implications

Bill discusses varying employee reactions:

“Some people are just going in five days a week and doing as they've been asked. Other people… decided to find other jobs.”
(10:57)

She speculates on the broader tech industry impact:

“When we first learned of this announcement… Who can say if it's out of the question? We are in a very different labor market than we were years ago…”
(11:42)

April 12:19 - Conclusion of Amazon Segment

The segment concludes with reflections on the feasibility and popularity of such mandates in the current employment climate.

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Conclusion

Julie Chang wraps up the episode by addressing a correction regarding a previous episode and acknowledging her production team. The discussions on Elon Musk’s governance approach and Amazon’s return-to-office strategy provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of significant shifts in the tech and governmental sectors.

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Notable Quotes:

• Tim Higgins on DOGE’s Approach:
  “This is a classic Silicon Valley mindset of move fast and break things…” (03:57)

• Matt Garman, Amazon Web Services CEO:
  “But for us, that's what we've decided is what we think is the best way to operate our company. And that's how we want to move going forward.” (08:23)

• Employee Perspective:
  “She ended up just finding a fully remote job and found that was a better choice for her than going back five days.” (11:39)

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This summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the WSJ Tech News Briefing episode, providing a clear and detailed overview for those who haven't tuned in.

Transcript

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[Unknown Speaker]

1, 2, 3.

[Cashier]

Will that be cash or credit?

[Tim Higgins]

Credit.

[Cashier]

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[Julie Chang]

Welcome to Tech News briefing. It's Friday, February 14th. I'm Julie Chang for the Wall Street Journal. Elon Musk joined President Trump in the Oval Office this week.

[Tim Higgins]

It's not optional for us to sit.

[Cashier]

To reduce the federal expenses.

[Julie Chang]

It's essential. They defended the aggressive cost cuts made by Doge. We'll catch you up on the latest there. And then Amazon called its 350,000 corporate workers back to the office five days a week starting January. But upon returning, some employees are finding there isn't enough parking or even desks. We'll tell you about the e commerce giant's messy return to office mandate. First up, it's been roughly four weeks since Elon Musk took the helm of the newly established Department of Government Efficiency, or doge, which was tasked with slashing government spending. And a lot has happened since. WSJ columnist Tim Higgins joins us now to catch us up on the latest as part of our series looking at Musk's first 100 days in the Trump White House. Tim Elon Musk had a press conference in the Oval Office on Tuesday. President Trump was also there briefly. What was that about?

[Tim Higgins]

One of the things that Caught Official Washington, D.C. off guard was just the imagery of it. Elon Musk standing next to President Trump. His little son X was there here. Musk was holding court almost like a president. And it was about making the sale, making the pitch for what they're doing at Doge and what they're finding. And that sort of thing, really a scene you don't typically see from the Oval Office.

[Julie Chang]

So Trump signed an executive order Tuesday giving Doge more authority to reduce the size of the federal workforce. What can you tell us about that?

[Tim Higgins]

In a lot of ways, I would look at it as an endorsement of what Musk has been doing. He's been going very aggressively trying to figure out the levers of power, whether it's the information, the IT efforts of the government so he knows where he can go, go and then getting into kind of where the money is being spent. They're looking at people. These are kind of the classic things that we see from Musk when he went into Twitter in late 2022 and took over that company. He digs into the bowels of the company that tries to figure out where the money's going, who's in charge, who's got the bright ideas, who's going to be a problem, where are they wasting money in his mind, and they start cutting. In a lot of ways, what we're seeing Musk do in Washington is a classic corporate reorg, something we'd be accustomed to at a company. But you just don't see government play out this way.

[Julie Chang]

We're roughly four weeks in since inauguration. Can you give us a rundown on all the things Musk has done so far?

[Tim Higgins]

He and his team have gone into several agencies. They had a hand in essentially gutting US Aid. They've gone into the treasury, they have gone into other government agencies, and they have many more ahead, including the Department of Defense, the Department of Education. A lot of movement and a lot of effort by Musk to create the appearance of momentum, which is something that he's relied on over the years in private work at his companies. This idea of keeping the momentum going forward to build support has really been a key thing for him. It's really kind of a classic Silicon Valley mindset of move fast and break things, and he is applying that to government now.

[Julie Chang]

Tim, you wrote about this idea of momentum in your last column. Explain that a bit more for us and how you saw it play out in one of Musk's companies a few.

[Tim Higgins]

Years ago, when Tesla's deliveries were sluggish, profits were under pressure, he did what he tends to do, and he made some dramatic changes. He made a lot of cuts in the workforce, including. He got rid of a lot of people in the supercharger department, and that surprised a lot of people. And it was part of a bigger cost reduction that he was taking in as he was making the case to investors that he was preparing Tesla essentially to be in fighting condition for the AI future that it was moving towards, that driverless cars were its future. That's where the resources needed to go. These other things were not as important. And that's a future that's in, if not months, years away. But it helps tell the story to investors that there's momentum to something bigger to help justify why the company has its large valuation. And it's, in a lot of ways, kind of classic Musk in that he is showing investors, showing the outer world, that he's moving towards something, even if it's not quite sure it's a victory in the near term.

[Julie Chang]

But the government isn't a company. So what are the biggest differences you see between running the government with momentum versus running X or Tesla with momentum?

[Tim Higgins]

Well, you hit it on the head. It's one thing for Elon Musk to essentially play God at a company that he controls, that he owns. The government is just a total different beast for a lot of reasons. A, he's not elected. B, there are just so many different stakeholders who have a say and who play in all of this, whether it's Congress or the judiciary or the fact that he is drawing his power from his close relationship with the President. And at the end of the day, he's doing the will or the bidding of President Trump. And Musk has talked about and it doesn't often get attention, but he will point out during his late night kind of briefings on X that he's held or in other kind of scenarios that he's running this stuff by the President, that he is getting permission, that he is telling the President what he's finding and that he's not out there just doing whatever he wants. And the President would say that the buck stops with him. So there is this delicate dance, if you will, between the two of them. But for a lot of people in D.C. in particular, watching what's going on, they feel like Musk is taking over the government.

[Julie Chang]

How are other government officials reacting to Musk and Doge?

[Tim Higgins]

Democrats, not surprisingly, are not happy with what's going on. They feel like important programs are being cut. Some would question whether Trump administration is overstepping. Remember, it's Congress that has the power of the purse. And in making some of these decisions, it seems to be setting up a fight over whether the White House can cut some of this spending in the way it's doing or whether Congress should be more involved. And so that kind of drama is sure to play out. We've already seen some of this taken to the courts for judges to become involved with. And really what we're likely to see is many months of contentious debate and fighting over this.

[Julie Chang]

That was WSJ columnist Tim Higgins. Coming up, Amazon is requiring workers to be back in the office five days a week. How's it been going? That's after the break.

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[Cashier]

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[Tim Higgins]

Time.

[Julie Chang]

Among tech companies, e commerce giant Amazon has been a big proponent of workers returning to the office.

[Matt Garman]

If it's not for you, then that's okay. You can go and find another company if you want to.

[Julie Chang]

That's Amazon Web Services CEO Matt Garman speaking at a Wall Street Journal event in October.

[Matt Garman]

But for us, that's what we've decided is what we think is the best way to operate our company. And that's how we want to move going forward.

[Julie Chang]

But according to current and former employees, the company's return to office mandate has been messy. Here to tell us more about that is WSJ reporter Katie Bindley. Katie, catch us up with Amazon's return to office effort. Who was asked to return when and why?

[Unknown Speaker]

So Amazon back in September told its workers that as of January, they could expect to be required to be in the office five days a week. And they've made a big point that being in person altogether is extremely important for fostering their culture. Their CEO Andy Jassy has previously told people that this is about collaborating, brainstorming, and that doing those things, it's just simpler and more effective if you do it in person.

[Julie Chang]

And what are some of the issues workers are running into?

[Unknown Speaker]

One issue is not everyone has assigned seating, so they might have to walk around and find a different place to set up camp for the day. There's also issues with parking spaces in some cases. So if you don't get there in time, you might not get a parking spot. And then obviously commutes are a big thing that people are not necessarily thrilled with having to do five days a week. In the San Francisco Bay Area specifically, some employees have actually gotten together to try to lobby for the opening of a new office, and they've actually managed to get about 600 people who have signed on to a spreadsheet in support of that effort in the hopes that they will get additional space in the area and then some parts of the company. For example, within Amazon Web Services, employees were told that they would need to relocate to a handful of cities in the U.S. europe, Asia and Latin America. And in Europe, just as an example, London, Paris, and Munich were the options of where people could relocate. So there were employees who were not living in London, Paris, or Munich and who might have been not even living in the same country who would have then had to relocate out of their home country in order to keep their jobs. Some employees ended up raising some issues about it potentially violating local laws. So that's on hold for the time being.

[Julie Chang]

What has Amazon said in response to your reporting?

[Unknown Speaker]

Obviously, Amazon is a huge company with hundreds of thousands of corporate employees, and they basically just said that the majority of people do have dedicated workspaces and that they have hundreds of offices around the world and that this is a relatively small number that weren't quite ready for everyone to come back a full five days a week.

[Julie Chang]

So how are workers feeling about Amazon's return to office mandate?

[Unknown Speaker]

Some people are just going in five days a week and doing as they've been asked. Other people, when word came out that they were going to be required in five days, decided to find other jobs. I spoke with someone who had been at Amazon for a decade and had been a remote employee for seven years, but was told that she would be required to be back in full time. She does live about 65 miles from Seattle and with traffic, was just worried about how much time out of her day that was gonna take. She does have a disability and considered trying to file for an exception, but she was feeling pretty skeptical that the company would approve it. So she ended up just finding a fully remote job and found that was a better choice for her than going back five days.

[Julie Chang]

Does this tell us anything about the broader tech landscape?

[Unknown Speaker]

It's interesting. I mean, when we first learned of this announcement back in September, there was this question of, like, okay, well, who's gonna follow suit as Amazon of giving cover for the other large tech companies now to require their workers back in five days? And so far, we haven't seen the largest tech companies calling people back full time yet. Who can say if it's out of the question? I mean, we are in a very different labor market than we were years ago when a lot of people were brought on. Remote employees were eventually required in three days a week. Five days a week certainly does not seem like the most popular option. At the same time, it is much more of an employer's market than it was.

[Julie Chang]

That was WSJ reporter Katie Binley. And before we go, heads up, we've made a Correction to the February 12 episode of Tech News Briefing. Craig Martel is chief AI officer at Cohecity, an earlier version of the episode incorrectly said he is CTO at Cohesity. And that's it for Tech News Briefing. Today's show was produced by Jess Jupiter. I'm your host, Julie Chang. Additional support this week from Pierre Biennime. Jessica Fenton and Michael Lavalle wrote our theme music. Our supervising producer is Katherine Millsop. Our development producer is Aisha Al Muslim. Scott Salloway and Chris Sinsley are the deputy editors. And Falana Patterson is the Wall Street Journal's head of news audio. We'll be back this afternoon with TNB Tech Minute. Thanks for listening.