Kevin Rose and Alexis Ohanian on Rebooting Social Media in the Age of AI

Summary

WSJ Tech News Briefing: Kevin Rose and Alexis Ohanian on Rebooting Social Media in the Age of AI

Podcast Information:

• Title: WSJ Tech News Briefing
• Host/Author: The Wall Street Journal
• Episode: Kevin Rose and Alexis Ohanian on Rebooting Social Media in the Age of AI
• Release Date: June 23, 2025

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Introduction

In the June 23, 2025 episode of WSJ Tech News Briefing, host Victoria Craig delves into the challenges and innovations surrounding the revival of social media platforms in an era dominated by artificial intelligence and bot proliferation. The spotlight is on Kevin Rose, co-founder of the original internet aggregator Digg, and Alexis Ohanian, co-founder of Reddit. Together, they discuss their ambitious project to reboot Digg, aiming to create a more authentic and user-driven online community.

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The Challenge of Bots and AI in Social Media

Wilson Rothman, WSJ’s Deputy Tech and Media Editor, initiates the conversation by highlighting the dangers of bot armies infiltrating social platforms. He poses the critical question of how new platforms can ensure genuine user engagement without being overrun by automated accounts.

Kevin Rose emphasizes the importance of human-driven content, recalling Reddit’s success where authentic discussions outperformed single-source reviews. He warns, “if this is overrun by bots and AI... they are up there” (02:23).

Alexis Ohanian expands on this by referencing a study from a Zurich university, revealing that a significant percentage (10-30%) of content on Reddit’s "Change My View" community was manipulated by AI bots. He underscores the reality of the dead Internet theory, which suggests that much of online content is either generated or influenced by AI, making authentic human interaction increasingly rare (02:45).

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Strategies for Authentic User Verification

Preventing bot infiltration is paramount for Rose and Ohanian’s reboot of Digg. Kevin Rose outlines a multi-tiered approach to user verification:

1. Low-Friction Entry: Simplifying the onboarding process to encourage real users without creating significant barriers.
2. High-End Verification: Referencing Sam Altman’s World ID, Rose mentions advanced verification methods like retina scanning to ensure user authenticity (03:30).
3. ZK Proofs Technology: Rose introduces Zero-Knowledge Proofs (ZK Proofs) as a means for users to verify ownership of products or services without revealing personal information. For example, a user can prove they own a fitness tracker and leave authenticated reviews without disclosing their identity (03:17).

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Rethinking the Business Model: Moving Away from Ad-Driven Revenue

Wilson Rothman probes into the conventional ad-driven revenue models that dominate current social platforms, questioning their sustainability and ethical implications.

Kevin Rose critiques the reliance on unpaid moderation and community management, advocating for fair compensation for those who contribute significantly to platform growth. He points out the exploitative nature of current models where community creators add immense value but receive little in return. Rose suggests that communities should have more control over their advertising, allowing them to approve brands that align with their values. This approach would not only enhance user experience but also ensure that revenue benefits the community at large (06:31).

Alexis Ohanian agrees, emphasizing the necessity of a sustainable business model that fairly compensates creators. He highlights the potential of aligning stakeholder interests to foster a thriving and equitable platform. Ohanian envisions a model where user enjoyment and community alignment drive the platform’s success, moving beyond the traditional ad-centric approaches of the early 2000s (08:33).

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Empowering Creators and Moderators

A significant portion of the discussion centers on transforming the roles of community moderators from unpaid labor into valued contributors. Kevin Rose advocates for models similar to Substack and Patreon, where creators and moderators receive compensation for their efforts. He emphasizes the importance of protecting creators' rights, referencing the case where Reddit failed to secure copyright for "WallStreetBets" against its creator, a loss that hindered community ownership and growth (06:31).

Alexis Ohanian reinforces this by asserting that the immense value generated by online communities should be equitably distributed to those who sustain them. He envisions a future where moderators and creators are directly rewarded, ensuring their continued investment and the platform’s overall health (08:41).

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Future of Social Media Platforms

Rose and Ohanian discuss the broader implications of their approach to rebooting Digg in the context of the evolving digital landscape. They highlight the increasing sophistication of AI in generating content and engaging users, which necessitates robust verification and fair monetization strategies to maintain genuine human interactions.

Kevin Rose warns of AI agents' capacity for persistent and manipulative behavior, such as befriending users over extended periods to extract value without detection. This underscores the need for continual innovation in verification and trust-building measures (03:30).

Alexis Ohanian remains optimistic, believing that by starting from first principles and addressing the core issues of user trust and creator compensation, they can build a more resilient and user-centric social media platform. He envisions Digg as a space where user experience and community alignment drive growth, rather than ad revenues and algorithm-driven engagement (08:42).

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with Wilson Rothman summarizing the key insights from his conversation with Kevin Rose and Alexis Ohanian. The reboot of Digg represents a significant effort to create a more authentic and equitable social media platform in an age where AI and bots pose substantial challenges. By prioritizing real user engagement, fair compensation for creators, and innovative verification methods, Rose and Ohanian aim to redefine the future of online communities.

Notable Quotes:

• Kevin Rose (02:23): "There is power in that [human collaboration]. But if this is overrun by bots and AI... they are up there."
• Alexis Ohanian (02:45): "I think the average person has no idea just how much of the content they consume on social media... is a human using AI in the loop to generate that content at scale to manipulate and evade."
• Kevin Rose (03:17): "... it is an approvable way that says I can actually act on authority as a long term whoop user to guarantee that I've actually held and been active in said device."
• Kevin Rose (06:31): "The days of unpaid moderation by the masses... has to go away."
• Alexis Ohanian (08:41): "If we can nail both improving the user experience... and find a way to align your interests with the communities and digs, it's a huge win."

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Episode Credits: Produced by Julie Chang with Deputy Editor Chris Sinsley. Hosted by Victoria Craig.

Transcript

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[Victoria Craig]

Welcome to Tech News Briefing. It's Monday, June 23rd. I'm Victoria Craig for the Wall Street Journal. Can you really teach an old dog new tricks? Two Internet entrepreneurs are certainly going to try, as they seek to breathe new into an old staple of a bygone digital age. But how can they navigate a new online world dominated by artificial intelligence and bot armies? To give users an authentic, worthwhile experience in the tech industry, companies are constantly innovating and striving for the next best thing. But sometimes there's value in looking backwards. Internet pioneer Kevin Rose, co founder of the now defunct Internet aggregator Digg, joined Alexis Ohanian, co founder of Reddit, on Stage at the WSJ's Future of Everything event in New York. Our deputy tech and media editor, Wilson Rothman sat down with the pair to talk about their new company, a reboot of Digg, and why they've decided to go back to the future.

[Wilson Rothman]

So you guys are creating a new product, essentially a new platform, but it's called Digg. You bought the rights back and you're starting it up. And you are taking a lot of the lessons you learned in creating these two communities and watching all these other communities bloom. And you want to make sure, for starters, that you don't get bot armies just walking through the front door, because that's one of the things that's gone wrong. So let's just start with the front door.

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Yeah.

[Wilson Rothman]

Knock, knock. How do you let them in?

[Kevin Rose]

The one thing I will say that Reddit was so awesome is that it was the auto complete. On Google, you would say, what is the best speaker or headphone should I wear? And you would see, literally, Google would say, do you want to add Reddit to it? And it was because humans coming together to discuss something that they're very passionate about can produce amazing results. Right? Better than any one independent reviewer on the Verge or anywhere else could do. You get the masses coming together, so there is power in that. But if this is overrun by bots and AI and we're seeing, I don't know what you think the numbers are, but they're up there.

[Alexis Ohanian]

Look, it's big, right? Even you saw that there was a university in Zurich that published a study where they literally manipulated the change my view community on Reddit using AI, there's reports 10, 20, 30% of content. And it's the M Dash, which apparently Is the.

[Wilson Rothman]

And it was the most effective con.

[Alexis Ohanian]

Yes.

[Wilson Rothman]

The most effective arguments in the channel change, my view came from bots.

[Alexis Ohanian]

Yeah. And I think I've long subscribed to the dead Internet theory, which like 10 years ago was a conspiracy theory. But probably in the last few years, since we've blown past the Turing Test, is a very real thing. I think the average person has no idea just how much of the content they consume on social media. If it's not an outright bot, is a human using AI in the loop to generate that content at scale to manipulate and evade.

[Wilson Rothman]

So it's very important you want people who are real people who are ideally not even using bots to communicate their ideas coming in the door.

[Kevin Rose]

Yeah. So basically I don't want to get into technical details of how we prevent that stuff, but as low as friction as possible. And then at the high end of it you have Sam Altman that's going out and scanning your retina. Right. That's pretty hardcore fully verified human.

[Wilson Rothman]

That's Sam Altman's world id.

[Kevin Rose]

World id, yeah. So there's a gradient of trust that has to take place here and then. So that's a gradient of trust on just the human or not on the other side of the screen. And then there's also a gradient of trust that actually I believe you can get to a lot quicker, which is around do I trust what this person is saying about said product. So we have a very fancy. There's very fancy technology out there that people can look up. It's called ZK Proofs and it is a way to use an algorithm to prove that you actually own something on another platform. So right now, and I have no affiliation with this brand, but I'm wearing a whoop. It's a fitness tracker. I've had it for three years. I can go in and create a proof within two clicks. And then in the dig comments I can say I love my whoop. I think it's amazing. And the new version is fantastic. And you will see, almost like you do on Amazon where you see verified purchase, you will see that Kevin has decided to share with the world in an anonymous way. Meaning they whoop can't see which my user account is linked to. That's the cool thing about proves. But it's an approvable way that says I can actually act on authority as a long term whoop user to guarantee that I've actually held and been active in said device. I think more of that is coming to the Internet and we're going to need that because the world is going to be flooded with bots with AI agents. They're infinitely patient. They will hang out in your DMs and befriend you for six months until there's an ask that you don't even think is an ask because you think you just have a new friend.

[Victoria Craig]

Coming up, we'll be back with Wilson, Kevin and Alexis who get down to brass tacks about how this new venture will actually work. That's after the break.

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[Victoria Craig]

But what does that mean? How will it work? And is it a viable business model? WSJ tech and media editor Wilson Rothman poses those questions to Kevin Rose and Alexis Ohanian.

[Wilson Rothman]

So business model all right. A lot of the problems that we've seen out there have a lot to do with the fact that the major platforms that people use are ad driven. There's a data, personal data loop. There's a lot of get people psyched about this so you can pour more ads into their feeds. Like that whole compulsion. Obviously it sent record profits to these companies with record valuations. Seems like it's a great business. But I know you guys are going to say that's not what you're going to do. So what are you going to do?

[Kevin Rose]

There's a couple things here. I'll try and be as kind as possible, but I do believe the days of unpaid moderation by the masses doing all the heavy lifting to create massive multi million person communities has to go away. I think these people are putting in their life and soul into these communities and for them not to be compensated some way is ridiculous to me. And so we have to figure out a way to bring them along for the ride. And you know Substack's doing that quite well. Patreon's doing that quite well. I mean these are and they should have more ownership over their communities. It is crazy to me that the creator of WallStreetBets lost the copyright case against Reddit because Reddit went and copyrighted that term that somebody in the community created. And it's like in my head we should be going out and trying helping them copyright these on their behalf like they did. They added tremendous value to the network in terms of millions of users. That's part of it. The other part of it on the ad side, I have a lot of top podcaster like big podcaster friends that I kind of mingle with. And the one thing the podcasts get right that is so important is when you are a Tim Ferriss or Rogan or any of the bigs that are out there, you get to say no to anyone that doesn't meet your values. You can say, I don't want to do that brand. It is so weird to me that an unnamed advertiser can randomly pop up in your community that you didn't approve to get in there. So if we could put more power back into the community. Now you have community buy in at the ad level and if they are a type of ad unit that says I believe I'm in the gaming community, yes, that is the best mouse in the world, let that ad come in here and then figure out if you are partaking in that part of the system, how we can build the rails behind the scenes to make sure that we spread a little bit more of the compensation universally amongst the ecosystem so that they can do great things with their community and turn these moderators into unpaid labor, into more director of vibes and just make them real champions for their community.

[Wilson Rothman]

And Alexis is going to pay them a little bit how to write.

[Alexis Ohanian]

I mean, look, you're buying. I'm a happy investor. I think. Look, sustainable business model for sure. That is crucial.

[Kevin Rose]

Yes.

[Alexis Ohanian]

And I, I will underscore those things that Kevin said. At the end of the day, you have so much value being created that's not at all being captured by the creators. And if you just look across every other form of online content creation that is against the norm. Right. You cannot. It is untenable. And if we can nail both improving the user experience just so day to day you actually enjoy the stuff that you're doing and find a way to align your interests with the communities and digs, it's a huge win. And advertising was like the thing to do in the early aughts. If you could build enough of an audience, sure, throw an ad on it. But we can look at it from first principles. And I want to believe the business model that'll make Diggs successful is one that aligns all those stakeholders. And I think it is very, very possible.

[Victoria Craig]

That was WSJ Deputy Tech and Media Editor Wilson Rothman. In conversation with Kevin Rose and Alexis ohanian at the WSJ's Future of Everything conference. And that's it for Tech News Briefing. Today's show was produced by Julie Chang with deputy editor Chris Sinsley. I'm Victoria Craig for the Wall Street Journal. We'll be back this afternoon with TNB Tech Minute. Thanks for listening.

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