Podcast Summary: WSJ Tech News Briefing

Episode: The New AI Data Trade, Part 2: Let's Make a Deal
Date: August 18, 2025
Host: Colman Stanifer (The Wall Street Journal)

Episode Overview

This episode, the second in a two-part special, explores the maturing landscape of AI data licensing, particularly for smaller content creators. Host Colman Stanifer dives into the new world of data brokers—the companies connecting creators who want to monetize their content with AI firms hungry for training data. Can creators cash in on this AI gold rush, or do the odds still overwhelmingly favor the big tech players?

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Emergence of AI Data Brokers

• Origins & Purpose:
  Companies like Trovio (Austin, TX), RHEI (British Columbia), and Protege (New York) are emerging as intermediaries to help creators license their content for AI training purposes. Trovio, for example, is backed by Reddit co-founder Alexis Ohanian’s firm, 776.
  (01:31–02:00)

• Market Tensions:
  Initial AI model training scraped freely from the web, sparking backlash over compensation. Big companies, like News Corp (WSJ’s owner), are cutting content deals, but smaller players felt left out and powerless—data brokers aim to bridge that gap.
  (02:00–02:44)

“People felt like they were hearing about AI companies training their models with their data that was posted online without their permission... feeling like they just needed a partner to help navigate the space.”
— Marty Pesis, CEO, Trovio (00:18)

2. How AI Content Licensing Actually Works

• The Licensing Process:
  To license your content, you sign a contract (typically 3 years, with automatic renewal unless notice is given). Revenue splits in Trovio’s sample contract: 60% to creator, 40% to the broker—though this varies.
  (02:44–03:12)

• Data Processing:
  Once uploaded, the content is cleaned, indexed, and enriched with metadata to make it AI-ready.
  (03:12–03:29)

“The data is clean, indexed, and enriched with metadata... that really differentiates it. We run it through a bunch of models and pipelines... ultimately able to deliver it in the formats that the AI companies need.”
— Marty Pesis (03:12)

3. What Type of Content Sells?

• Quality is Key:
  Not all content will be accepted; there’s a quality bar. Unique, dynamic footage (e.g., teams playing football, less-common sports like curling) tends to fetch better prices. (04:11–04:26)

“There is a quality bar that we look for… It’s usually like, below the bar [iPhone family videos]... So there is a certain bar that we look for in terms of quality.”
— Marty Pesis (04:11)

• Payment Structure:
  Payment depends on exclusivity, video quality, specificity, and whether content was already publicly available. Creators like Jared Brick report earning $1–$4/minute. Jared, who’s uploaded 50 terabytes (about 50 max-storage iPhones’ worth), earned ~$80,000 since Nov 2024 and projects $120,000 by year’s end.
  (04:26–05:28)

“We’ve done other creative projects, we’ve funded different things, we’ve paid off debt, we’ve built new revenue streams.”
— Jared Brick (05:28)

4. The Reality: Winners and Skeptics

• Payouts & Guarantees:
  Trovio claims to have paid out over $5 million to creators as of Nov 2024, expecting $25 million by late 2025. Yet, there’s no guarantee every uploader will get paid—some will earn nothing if their content isn’t licensed.
  (05:36–06:04)

• Mixed Experiences:

  • Success Story: Jared Brick (featured previously) benefited significantly from AI licensing.
  • No Payoff: Tyler Tuen (Good Garden Film, Whidbey Island, WA) uploaded 3 terabytes but hasn’t seen compensation, possibly due to the age and type of footage. Managing and prepping old archives also proved time-consuming.

“There is a certain amount of hours involved in managing data on my end and I don’t see the value yet... I have other arenas where I’m making human relationships and money from those human relationships.”
— Tyler Tuen (07:43)

5. Hesitation & Ethical Concerns

• Ethical Doubts:
  Some creators, like Charles Walsh (YouTuber/photographer, Oregon), refuse to participate. Walsh was offered $5,000 by RHEI for his Spanish-language channel—substantially more than his monthly YouTube earnings. But since some videos contained audience-submitted images, he was uncomfortable licensing what wasn’t fully his. He’s wary of training a tool that could replace him.

“I don’t want to train AI. I want to use AI. I want to have AI do my laundry and dishes so I have time to create. I don’t want AI.”
— Charles Walsh (08:08)

“It’s just like anything, [AI tools]... we either use them or they use us. And that’s kind of where I’m at.”
— Charles Walsh (09:15)

• Platform Outreach:
  RHEI confirms they’re reaching out to creators by email with specific dollar offers, but wouldn't disclose sign-up numbers for their RHEI Data Pro service.

6. The Future: Resist or Join?

• Industry at a Crossroads:
  Media and small content creators face a choice—join the data licensure wave or find new ways to protect content from AI crawl. Data brokers position themselves as a means for "everyone, not just big companies," to profit, but creator skepticism on several fronts (ownership, time investment, disruption) remains.

• Adapting to Change:
  Some, like Jared Brick, embrace the change, emphasizing the risk of being left behind by the rapid advance of technology.

“You have to stay with the market... We don’t want to become blockbusters sitting there with our hard drives going ‘oh, we didn’t do anything and just holding on to our media.’ You can’t fight technology. If I don’t get involved, is AI going to stop? No.”
— Jared Brick (10:35)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the dilemma facing creators:

  “Either cut a deal or find a way to protect your data from AI crawling.”
  — Colman Stanifer (09:27)

• Summing up the stakes:

  “We don't want to become blockbusters… just holding on to our media.”
  — Jared Brick (10:36)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:18]: Marty Pesis on creator frustrations and need for brokers
• [03:12]: How Trovio processes and enriches content
• [04:11]: What quality of content AI companies look for
• [05:28]: Jared Brick’s story and financial outcomes
• [07:43]: Tyler Tuen on lack of payoff and time commitment
• [08:08]: Charles Walsh’s ethical reservations
• [10:35]: Jared Brick on why creators shouldn’t resist change

Final Thoughts

This episode provides a nuanced look at the complex, evolving relationship between content creators and the burgeoning AI data brokerage world. While some creators are cashing in, others confront ethical, practical, and financial hurdles. The debate remains lively—should you fuel AI with your data, or focus on protecting and differentiating your work as the landscape keeps shifting?