Volkswagen Will Bring Its Robotaxi Service to the U.S. with Help from Uber

Summary

WSJ Tech News Briefing Summary: "Volkswagen Will Bring Its Robotaxi Service to the U.S. with Help from Uber"

Released on July 11, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of the Wall Street Journal's Tech News Briefing, host Patrick Coffey explores two pivotal developments in the tech world: the intensifying battle between media publishers and AI-driven data scrapers, and Volkswagen's strategic move into the U.S. autonomous vehicle market via a partnership with Uber. This comprehensive summary delves into the key discussions, insights, and conclusions drawn during the episode, providing a clear understanding for those who haven't listened.

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1. The Battle Against Data Scrapers

Overview: Data scrapers pose a significant threat to the media industry by harvesting大量内容 from publishers' websites to feed AI products without proper compensation. This segment discusses how publishers are combating this challenge through litigation, licensing deals, and technological barriers.

Key Discussions:

• The Threat of Data Scrapers:

  • Patrick Coffey highlights the menace of data scrapers: “Scrapers don't sound like the friendliest tech toys, but they're especially threatening to the media business since they descend on websites by the millions in order to vacuum up the kind of content that feeds AI products” [00:11].

• Publishers’ Defensive Strategies:

  • Isabella Simonetti outlines three primary defenses publishers are employing:
    1. Litigation: High-profile lawsuits, such as the New York Times suing OpenAI and Microsoft.
    2. Licensing Deals: Establishing agreements with big tech companies to ensure compensation for content usage.
    3. Technological Solutions: Collaborating with companies like Cloudflare to block unauthorized bots from accessing content [01:30].

• Licensing Deals and Negotiation Dynamics:

  • Coffey queries whether publishers hope that licensing deals might coerce AI companies into negotiations. Simonetti responds, emphasizing the inevitability of AI's integration: “AI isn't going anywhere... news organizations recognize that they need to cut deals in order to have a sustainable relationship going forward with the big tech companies” [02:18].
  • She adds that ongoing litigation creates a tense atmosphere, with many publishers opting to "wait and see how that plays out in order to come back to the bargaining table" [02:18].

• Fair Use Debate:

  • A central issue is whether AI companies have the right to use open web content. Simonetti explains, “News companies and publishers argue no, it's not fair use to take our content without permission, and that the AI and big tech companies are arguing that because the technology is so revelatory and transformative, it is in fact fair use to use our content to train their models” [03:09].

• Cloudflare’s Technological Blockade:

  • Coffey inquires about the feasibility of Cloudflare’s solution to block scrapers. Simonetti notes the divided stance: “Publishers are supportive... AI and big tech companies... are skeptical of the measure” [03:51].
  • She further explains Cloudflare’s role as a mediator, though the effectiveness remains uncertain: “Whether or not it will work is another question” [04:39].

Notable Quotes:

• Isabella Simonetti [01:30]: “There are three paths that publishers can take in order to defend against this issue.”
• Simonetti [02:18]: “AI isn't going anywhere... news organizations recognize that they need to cut deals...”
• Simonetti [03:09]: “It's in fact fair use to use our content to train their models.”
• Simonetti [03:51]: “Publishers are trying to do everything that they can in order to protect their content.”
• Simonetti [04:39]: “Whether or not it will work is another question.”

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2. Volkswagen’s Robotaxi Service in Partnership with Uber

Overview: Volkswagen is positioning itself as a significant player in the autonomous vehicle market by introducing a self-driving minivan robotaxi service in the United States, in collaboration with Uber. This segment covers the vehicle’s features, testing experiences in Hamburg, regulatory challenges, and strategic differences from other market leaders like Waymo and Tesla.

Key Discussions:

• Introduction to Volkswagen’s Autonomous Minivan:

  • Coffey introduces Volkswagen’s initiative: “That's the classic Volkswagen ad slogan might apply to its latest product, a self-driving minivan...” [05:08].

• Vehicle Specifications and Design:

  • Stephen Wilmot describes the vehicle: “They're adapted versions of the ID Buzz... this aev, they're calling it, Autonomous Vehicle, has a slightly higher roof and a sensor suite built into the roof” [06:24].
  • The minivan is branded by Moya, Volkswagen’s competitor to Uber, currently running a service in Hamburg with human drivers, now integrating autonomous technology [06:35].

• Test Drive Insights:

  • Wilmot shares his experience: “It was actually my very first ride in an autonomous vehicle... mostly very smooth. It negotiated complex driving decisions pretty well” [07:27].
  • However, challenges arose with delivery trucks in narrow roads, leading to a near-miss incident: “It struggled a bit with these situations... headed into oncoming traffic... safety driver was able to nudge it back into the right lane” [08:15].

• Regulatory Challenges: Europe vs. U.S.:

  • Wilmot discusses the regulatory environment: “In Europe, typically, you have to get pre approval for any vehicle, including autonomous ones... regulatory approach has held Europe back” [10:08].
  • Contrastingly, the U.S. offers a more flexible framework encouraging quicker deployment: “The US has a system where it's easier to trial things without getting pre approval for the vehicle” [10:30].

• Volkswagen’s Strategic Approach:

  • Volkswagen opts for a minivan to facilitate both ride-hailing and ride-pooling, aligning with European efforts to reduce urban congestion: “They can share the vehicle... part of the narrative is taking cars off the road” [11:04].
  • In the U.S., the partnership with Uber focuses on ride-hailing, acknowledging the American preference for private over public transport: “In the US they will be competing as a taxi service, essentially” [12:00].
  • Volkswagen aims to remove the safety driver earlier in the U.S. than in Europe due to less stringent regulations, with a planned rollout starting in Los Angeles: “Testing... starting late this year and a trial service starting next year” [08:00].

Notable Quotes:

• Stephen Wilmot [07:30]: “It was quite an experience, mostly very smooth. It negotiated complex driving decisions pretty well.”
• Wilmot [08:15]: “It felt like one of those situations that was a near miss and highlighted why the safety driver was still there.”
• Wilmot [10:08]: “Regulatory approach has held Europe back.”
• Wilmot [11:04]: “It's trying to do both ride hailing and ride pooling... better set up for ride pooling.”
• Wilmot [12:00]: “They will be competing as a taxi service, essentially.”

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3. Conclusion

The episode underscores the evolving tensions between media publishers and AI entities over content usage, highlighting the significant implications for the future of digital content and AI development. Simultaneously, Volkswagen’s foray into the autonomous vehicle market, supported by strategic partnerships and tailored approaches to different regulatory landscapes, marks a noteworthy advancement in the expanding robotaxi industry.

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Final Thoughts

This detailed summary encapsulates the critical discussions from the WSJ Tech News Briefing episode, providing valuable insights into the challenges and innovations shaping both media and autonomous vehicle sectors. The inclusion of notable quotes enhances the understanding of the complex dynamics at play, making it a comprehensive guide for listeners and non-listeners alike.

Transcript

[Viking Narrator]

Viking committed to exploring the world in comfort. Journey through the heart of Europe on an elegant Viking longship with thoughtful service, cultural enrichment and all inclusive fares.

[Patrick Coffey]

Discover [e-mail] welcome to Tech News Briefing. It's Friday, July 11th. I'm Patrick Coffey for the Wall Street Journal. The robo taxi wars are heating up between key players like Waymo, Tesla and Volkswagen. Self driving minivans are already testing out German roads and a deal with Uber will bring them to the US next year. Plus what are data scrapers and why are big publishers trying to block them? We look at the latest development in the fight between AI and the news business that could change the future of the web as we know it. But first, scrapers don't sound like the friendliest tech toys, but they're especially threatening to the media business since they descend on websites by the millions in order to vacuum up the kind of content that feeds AI products. And that includes the original reporting that drives news organizations. Now some publishers are hoping to force the AI giant's hands by blocking their bots altogether. The Journal's Isabella Simonetti reported on this emerging phenomenon. Isabella publishers are now fighting tech companies to protect their websites and and avoid having their stories hoovered up to feed new AI tools. How does that process work?

[Isabella Simonetti]

So there are three paths that publishers can take in order to defend against this issue. One is litigation, which we've seen for example with the New York Times, which is suing OpenAI and Microsoft. The second is cutting licensing deals with the big tech companies themselves in order to make sure that they're getting compensated for the use of their content. And then the third is, which we explore in the story, is working with companies like cloudflare who claim that they have technology that can essentially block bots from crawling and scraping content from publishers websites.

[Patrick Coffey]

I feel like there's been a bit of an if you can't beat em, join em vibe. When publishers sign licensing deals, do they hope that the new blockers might force AI companies to the negotiating table?

[Isabella Simonetti]

Yeah. So AI isn't going anywhere. It impacts all of our lives and we're even using it in newsrooms to make our work more efficient and better. And we're still in the very early stages of this and these news organizations recognize that they need to cut deals in order to have a sustainable relationship going forward with the big tech companies. That being said, because of the ongoing litigation, the deal making environment is somewhat tense. A lot of people want to wait and see how that plays out in order to come back to the bargaining TABLE News organizations are in touch with these companies about potential deals, but whether or not they actually get done and the nature of them is still something that is being sorted out.

[Patrick Coffey]

So do AI companies have the right to use all this content on the open web? And if so, what's their justification for that?

[Isabella Simonetti]

That's what's up for debate. News companies and publishers argue no, it's not fair use to take our content without permission, and that the AI and big tech companies are arguing that because the technology is so revelatory and transformative, it is in fact fair use to use our content to train their models. So it's something that judges are debating and are going to have to decide as these legal cases unfold.

[Patrick Coffey]

So as you said, Cloudflare recently debuted a tool that they say can block the scrapers and determine how the media company's content can be used. Do we know how realistic this proposal is, especially since past efforts have failed?

[Isabella Simonetti]

It's hard to know. A lot of news organizations are supportive of the endeavor by Cloudflare to propose basically this technology that can serve as a middleman and stop bots. The AI and big tech companies, on the other hand, feel we don't need a middleman here. We can work things out on our own or see how things play out in court. So a lot of them are skeptical of the measure, but publishers are trying to do everything that they can in order to protect their content. While so much of the future is uncertain. And the only way to know whether or not this is effective is to see how it's deployed and how it works out over the course of the.

[Patrick Coffey]

Next couple months, it almost seems like a way for Cloudflare to attract new business as well.

[Isabella Simonetti]

Totally. They're creating sort of an ecosystem out of being a mediator of sorts between these big tech companies and publishers. So if I'm an AI bot and I'm trying to crawl content on a publisher's website and I hit this wall, which is put up by Cloudflare technology that will say, you know, in order to use this you need permission. Cloudflare has a whole business out of that. That's what they're trying to do. Whether or not it will work is another question.

[Patrick Coffey]

That was WSJ reporter Isabella Simonetti coming up. It's ugly, but it gets you there. That classic Volkswagen ad slogan might apply to its latest product, a self driving minivan that the company hopes will move its ride pooling service into the US Market with some help from Uber. That's after the.

[Katie Dayton]

With a Venmo debit card. You can Venmo more than just your friends. You can use your balance in so many ways. You can Venmo everything. Need gas? You can Venmo this. How about snacks? You can Venmo that. Your favorite band's merch? You can Venmo this or their next show. You can Venmo that. Visit Venmo Me Debit to learn more. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp bank and a pursuant to license. My MasterCard International Incorporated card may be used everywhere. MasterCard is accepted. Venmo purchase restrictions apply.

[Patrick Coffey]

Volkswagen, the famed German automaker is partnering with Uber in an effort to bring its self driving car service to the US next year. Here's a conversation from the WSJ's Katie Dayton and reporter Steven Wilmot after he took a test drive in Hamburg.

[Stephen Wilmot]

So Stephen, what do these new vehicles from VW look like? Do they also have those big sensor spinners that we're used to seeing on the streets of San Francisco with Waymo?

[Viking Narrator]

Basically, they're adapted versions of the ID Buzz. So the electric version of Volkswagen's iconic bus, this aev, they're calling it, Autonomous Vehicle, has a slightly higher roof and a sensor suite built into the roof. They're black and gold, black and bronze. They're branded by Moya, which is a brand Volkswagen created a few years ago as a competitor to Uber, like a ride hailing, ride pooling service. And it's been running a service in Hamburg for many years with human drivers and now it wants to integrate autonomous vehicles into that service. And they've been running around on the streets of Hamburg for some months in test mode, bookable by staff. And they're now kind of gearing up for the launch to the public.

[Stephen Wilmot]

And you have been for a ride in one of these?

[Viking Narrator]

Yeah, it was actually my very first ride in an autonomous vehicle because they're not common in Europe at all, even though they've become normal on the streets of San Francisco and Austin and Phoenix and various other cities in the us but in Europe they're a rarity. So this is definitely one of the most prominent tests now going on in Europe, and the only one really by a car maker. It was quite an experience, mostly very smooth. It negotiated complex driving decisions pretty well. We were in a central Hamburg, it's a very busy downtown area. We were out at 9 in the morning when there was a lot of delivery traffic, big lorries, big trucks. And this was actually where the technology came unstuck a bit because these Delivery trucks, they just sit in the road, often quite narrow roads. And if you're a human driver, you assess whether it's safe to try and pull around them, or you just sit behind them until they move on. And it struggled a bit with these situations. And in fact, on one occasion, it basically headed into oncoming traffic on the other side of the road as a way to get around the delivery truck. So it was quite a scary situation. But there are safety drivers in these vehicles and the safety driver was able to nudge it back into the right lane. We didn't crash, but it felt like one of those situations that was a near miss and highlighted why the safety driver was still there. They're hoping to take the safety driver out. Well, they're not being hugely specific, but towards the end of 2026, early 2027, interestingly, they think they'll be able to take the safety driver out earlier in the us so the interesting thing is these vehicles are going to the US in a deal with Uber, starting in Los Angeles, with testing, they say, starting late this year and a trial service starting next year. And Volkswagen thinks it will be able to take the safety driver out of the vehicle earlier in the US than in Europe, where regulations are more complex.

[Stephen Wilmot]

Can you say more about that? It sounds a lot like European carmakers are further behind American ones in developing this technology. What is it about Europe, its regulations and the companies there that explain that delay?

[Viking Narrator]

The US has led with Waymo, and actually China has not been very far behind. The US and Europe really has been nowhere to be seen until now from a policy point of view. They're waking up to the fact that this is a bit of a missed opportunity and that they need to catch up. So we've had a number of initiatives from policymakers from Brussels, from Westminster in the UK saying, oh, we're going to accelerate trials of autonomous vehicles and so forth. Historically, what's held it back has been regulation to some extent. The US has a system where it's easier to trial things without getting pre approval for the vehicle. In Europe, typically, you have to get pre approval for any vehicle, including autonomous ones. So that puts a bit more onus on the company to prove it's safe before putting it on public roads, and that burden of proof is quite high. So that regulatory approach has held Europe back. I would say that the main thing that's held Europe back is the lack of tech giants. This technology has originated in California for a reason, and it's also been popularized in China by Baidu, which is kind of China's, Google and other tech companies. It's adjacent to AI, it's software. It's all the things that the US and China are good at. In Europe hasn't been.

[Stephen Wilmot]

And how has VW's entry strategy into this market differed from the likes of Waymo? For instance, I think it's interesting it's gone with a minivan as opposed to a smaller taxi sized vehicle.

[Viking Narrator]

That reflects a couple of things. One is that it's trying to do both ride hailing and ride pooling. The minivan is slightly better set up for ride pooling. That is where passengers would share the vehicle. And that in turn reflects the fact that it's working together closely with the authorities in Hamburg and they are looking for a public transport solution. And part of the narrative is taking cars off the road. And so ride pooling is this sort of easier pitch to public authorities who are trying to decongest their cities than ride hailing, where you're just potentially adding taxi traffic to already congested streets. So it's very much that European approach where they're trying to work hand in glove with city authorities. Volkswagen is a quasi public company. It's part owned by the state of Lower Saxony Niedersachsen in Germany. But when it comes to the US its deal with Uber will be for ride hailing because they accept that Americans are less into public transport and in the US they will be competing as a taxi service, essentially.

[Patrick Coffey]

That was the WSJ's Katy Dayton speaking with reporter Stephen Wilmot. And that's it for Tech News Briefing. Before we go, a reminder that we're on a new schedule starting this week. Tech News Briefing will be back on Tuesday. And in the meantime, we'll have the TNB Tech Minute with the latest tech headlines in the feed weekdays in the morning and afternoon. Today's show was produced by Julie Chang. I'm your host, Patrick Coffey. Jessica Fenton and Michael Lavalle wrote our theme music. Our supervising producer is Melanie Roy. Our development producer is Aisha Al Muslim. Scott Salloway and Chris Zinsley are the deputy editors. And Falana Patterson is the Wall Street Journal's head of news Audio. Thanks for listening.

[Isabella Simonetti]

Foreign.

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