What Trump’s Second Term Could Mean for the Top U.S. Cyber Agency

Summary

WSJ Tech News Briefing: What Trump’s Second Term Could Mean for the Top U.S. Cyber Agency

Release Date: November 19, 2024
Host: Belle Lynn
Reporters: Angel Au Young, James Rundle
Podcast: WSJ Tech News Briefing by The Wall Street Journal

---

Introduction

In the November 19, 2024 episode of WSJ Tech News Briefing, host Belle Lynn delves into two prominent topics shaping the tech landscape. First, she explores the emerging trend of tech professionals opting to network in saunas instead of traditional venues like bars and boardrooms. Following this, the podcast shifts focus to the potential ramifications of President Elect Donald Trump's second term on the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA), the leading U.S. cybersecurity agency.

---

Techies Take to Saunas: A New Networking Frontier

Anti-Alcohol Movement Fuels Sauna Trend

Belle Lynn opens the episode by highlighting a novel trend in Silicon Valley: tech founders and investors are increasingly choosing saunas as their preferred venues for meetings and networking events. This shift away from conventional settings is attributed to a broader anti-alcohol movement sweeping through the tech industry.

Angel Au Young Explains the Trend
WSJ reporter Angel Au Young provides insight into this movement. At [00:19], Belle Lynn introduces the topic and follows up by asking Angel about the reasons behind the surge in sauna-based networking.

Angel Au Young [01:24]: "There is an anti-alcohol movement that's sweeping through the tech industry and it's making investors and founders and employees just hungry for gathering places outside of bars or restaurants where the typical activity would be drinking or eating."

Angel elaborates that saunas offer a sober alternative where professionals can connect without the influence of alcohol. These venues can accommodate anywhere from 20 to 90 people, making them versatile for various event sizes. The trend appears to skew towards younger professionals, with event attendees ranging from their late 20s to their 50s.

Biohacking and Efficiency Drive the Movement
When queried about the origins of the anti-alcohol sentiment, Angel connects it to Silicon Valley's obsession with biohacking and personal efficiency.

Angel Au Young [02:09]: "It all relates to Silicon Valley's obsession with biohacking and trying to hack your own body in different ways to make yourself more efficient. Efficiency is a big theme in Silicon Valley that's partially tied to why people are just turning away from alcohol."

Effectiveness and Reception of Sauna Networking
Belle Lynn probes the effectiveness of these sauna gatherings, to which Angel responds that they are proving to be valuable networking opportunities. Investors appreciate the ability to connect with founders on both professional and personal levels in a relaxed environment.

Angel Au Young [02:31]: "It seems like for the people who have been invited to these type of events, it has become a really good networking opportunity. But what investors have told me is that it's also a way to get to know founders, both from a professional standpoint and a personal level."

Angel shares an anecdote about a first meeting at Asana, where a founder connected over family life, highlighting the personal touch facilitated by such informal settings. However, she notes that the intense environment of a sauna—where individuals meet in swimwear and endure high temperatures—might not be comfortable for everyone.

Future Outlook: Expansion of Sauna Events
Looking ahead, Angel anticipates that while sauna networking is still in its early stages, the trend is gaining traction in major tech hubs like San Francisco, New York, and Boulder. The growth is facilitated by the recent availability of suitable sauna facilities.

Angel Au Young [04:11]: "These types of social saunas have popped up this year in San Francisco, Louisiana, New York, Boulder, which are tech hotspots. And one of the investors that I spoke to for this story, he said that there's always going to be a scenario where somebody's going to feel uncomfortable regardless of what the activity is. But right now saunas are taking off because new facilities have just popped up."

---

CISA Under Scrutiny: Implications of Trump's Second Term

Overview of CISA's Role and Responsibilities

Transitioning to the main segment, Belle Lynn introduces the topic of the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) and its uncertain future under President Elect Trump's second administration. She highlights reports by James Rundle on the agency's critical role and the mounting criticisms it faces.

James Rundle Details CISA's Mandate
At [06:27], James Rundle outlines CISA's primary responsibilities:

James Rundle: "CISA is the primary federal agency responsible for cybersecurity among civilian branch agencies in the government. So everything basically outside of DoD, it's responsible for coordinating between them, making sure they have the appropriate protections in place, and they're all secure from hackers."

Additionally, CISA interfaces with 16 critical infrastructure sectors, including telecommunications, energy, and financial services, and plays a pivotal role in election security, encompassing both cyber and physical aspects.

Trump's Complicated Relationship with CISA
Belle and James discuss President Trump's intricate history with CISA. Trump established the agency in 2018 but had a contentious relationship with its first director, Christopher Krebs.

James Rundle [07:35]: "Trump stood up the agency himself back in 2018. It was his creation. But over the first couple of years, it was a bit of a rocky relationship. And it came to a head in the 2020 election when its first director, Christopher Krebs, came onto Twitter now X obviously, and said there was no evidence of elections hampering or fraud or anything of the sort. And Trump famously fired him by tweet."

Since Krebs's dismissal, Trump has remained largely silent on CISA, allowing critics, including Republican lawmakers and conservative think tanks like those behind Project 2025, to spearhead the discourse against the agency.

Criticism from Lawmakers and Policy Proposals
Project 2025, a policy document developed by a conservative think tank with ties to Trump's first administration, calls for significant reductions in CISA's scope and budget, advocating for the transfer of many of its responsibilities to the Department of Transportation.

James Rundle [08:27]: "... it called basically for the complete gutting of CISA, for a lot of its roles to be transferred to the Transportation Department, and for a real narrowing of its mission."

Corporate Cybersecurity Leaders Support CISA
Despite political pressures, corporate cybersecurity executives generally hold a positive view of CISA. James notes that CISA has strengthened its collaboration with the private sector through initiatives like the Joint Cyber Defense Collaborative, fostering intelligence sharing during major events and cyber incidents.

James Rundle [08:36]: "They're broadly pretty positive from the people I speak to, at least. CISA has done a lot over the last four years, in particular to really boost its relationships with the private sector."

While some critique CISA's effectiveness, the prevailing sentiment underscores its essential role in safeguarding against escalating cyber threats from nation-states and malicious actors targeting both government and private sectors.

Impact of the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE)
The recent appointment of Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy to lead the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) introduces further uncertainty for CISA. DOGE aims to reduce government spending and restructure federal agencies, positioning CISA as a potential target for budget cuts and mission realignment.

James Rundle [09:31]: "CISA is kind of a ripe target for the kind of things that DOGE wants to do. Its budget has increased over the last year from 2 billion to $3 billion. It's hired pretty widely. The criticism from Republicans makes it seem like it does a lot more than its core mission."

Experts suggest that DOGE may impose a pause on new initiatives and possibly roll back existing programs to ensure CISA's mission remains focused. This could involve reductions in budget and personnel, or even the dissolution of certain divisions.

Likelihood of CISA's Dissolution
Concerns about CISA's survival are balanced by the agency's entrenched position within the federal government and bipartisan recognition of its importance. Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky, despite advocating for CISA's dismantling, acknowledges the challenges in eliminating an agency so deeply integrated across various government functions.

James Rundle [10:01]: "People we spoke to said that there are lawmakers on both sides of the House that would pretty much go to the map for CISA. They understand its importance. And also CISA is so deeply embedded now in so many various parts of the federal government, it would be hard to extract it quickly."

The potential dismantling of CISA raises concerns about a return to fragmented federal cybersecurity efforts, reminiscent of pre-CISA times, which could lead to decreased coordination and increased vulnerability to cyber threats.

CISA's Response and Future Outlook
CISA has maintained a diplomatic stance amidst the uncertainty, expressing commitment to a smooth transition under the incoming administration. Current Director Jenny Salee announced her departure alongside other politically appointed officials, signaling forthcoming leadership changes.

James Rundle [10:36]: "CISA remains diplomatic about this. A spokesman said the agency is fully committed to a seamless transition and left it there."

As CISA braces for potential restructuring, the tech and cybersecurity communities await concrete developments, recognizing that any significant changes could have far-reaching implications for national security and corporate cybersecurity strategies.

---

Conclusion

The November 19 episode of WSJ Tech News Briefing provides a comprehensive look into evolving networking trends within Silicon Valley and the precarious future of the nation's leading cybersecurity agency under President Elect Trump's anticipated second term. While the sauna networking phenomenon reflects broader cultural shifts towards health and efficiency, the spotlight on CISA underscores the intricate interplay between politics, national security, and technological innovation. As these narratives unfold, stakeholders across the tech and government sectors remain vigilant, anticipating the next steps in these dynamic arenas.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Angel Au Young [01:24]: "There is an anti-alcohol movement that's sweeping through the tech industry and it's making investors and founders and employees just hungry for gathering places outside of bars or restaurants where the typical activity would be drinking or eating."

• James Rundle [06:27]: "CISA is the primary federal agency responsible for cybersecurity among civilian branch agencies in the government."

• James Rundle [07:35]: "Trump stood up the agency himself back in 2018. It was his creation. But over the first couple of years, it was a bit of a rocky relationship."

• James Rundle [08:36]: "They're broadly pretty positive from the people I speak to, at least. CISA has done a lot over the last four years, in particular to really boost its relationships with the private sector."

• James Rundle [10:36]: "CISA remains diplomatic about this. A spokesman said the agency is fully committed to a seamless transition and left it there."

---

This summary is based on the transcript provided and aims to encapsulate the key discussions and insights shared during the podcast episode.

Transcript

[Narrator]

Exchanges. The Goldman Sachs podcast featuring exchanges on the forces driving the markets and the economy. Exchanges between the leading minds at Goldman Sachs. New episodes every week. Listen now.

[Belle Lynn]

Welcome to Tech News briefing. It's Tuesday, November 19th. I'm Belle Lynn for the Wall Street Journal. Forget bars and boardrooms. Techies are starting to take their meetings and networking in saunas. What's behind this hot Silicon Valley trend? We'll find out. And then President Elect Trump's second term could bring about huge changes to the top US Cybersecurity agency. Our reporter James Rundle tells us why it's facing criticism from some lawmakers and how it could change in the new administration. But first, tech founders and investors are no strangers to experimentation. And the newest trend, they're latching onto networking inside saunas, those hot, sweaty, enclosed spaces best known as areas to relax and get away from work. For more on what's behind this trend, we're joined by WSJ reporter Angel Au Young. So, angel, why saunas?

[Angel Au Young]

I was told that there is an anti alcohol movement that's sweeping through the tech industry and it's making investors and founders and employees just hungry for gathering places outside of bars or restaurants where the typical activity would be drinking or eating. And so one answer to that has been these social saunas. And these saunas can fit anywhere from 20 to 90 people, depending on the facility. And yeah, it's become a bit of a trend. It does seem like it skews on the younger end. The events that I saw and reported on the age differences range from late 20s to 50s.

[Belle Lynn]

Where does this sort of anti alcohol movement come from?

[Angel Au Young]

In general? It all relates to Silicon Valley's obsession with biohacking and trying to hack your own body in different ways to make yourself more efficient. Efficiency is a big theme in Silicon Valley that's partially tied to why people are just turning away from alcohol.

[Belle Lynn]

So based on folks you've spoken with, how effective is sauna networking?

[Angel Au Young]

It seems like for the people who have been invited to these type of events, it has become a really good networking opportunity. But what investors have told me is that it's also a way to get to know founders, both from a professional standpoint and a personal level.

[Belle Lynn]

Very personal.

[Angel Au Young]

Right. And when I say personal, I mean because you're not in a conference center or a bar where everybody's in a suit, you can ask questions like, what is your family like? Do you have kids? And the founder that I spoke to who ended up taking a first founders meeting at Asana, she told me that she got to know that the founder, who's also a woman, she had kids and they were able to talk about family life in a way that Asana supported. At the end of the day, if it is a first founders meeting, you are meeting them probably in some kind of swimwear and these saunas can get obviously very hot. And so when you're meeting somebody for the first time and you've got sweat dripping down your face, I can see that being an obstacle in and of itself. But if you are an investor and you find a founder who is open to having a first founders meeting at Asana, then maybe there is an interesting synergy there that could result in some kind of an investment. But it definitely takes getting used to and it's definitely not for everyone.

[Belle Lynn]

So where do you think this is all going? I know we talked about the underlying anti alcohol movement driving the move towards these alternative networking and social events. Do you think we'll see more sauna type events pop up?

[Angel Au Young]

We're still pretty early stages with this trend. These types of social saunas have popped up this year in San Francisco, Louisiana, New York, Boulder, which are tech hotspots. And one of the investors that I spoke to for this story, he said that there's always going to be a scenario where somebody's going to feel uncomfortable regardless of what the activity is. But right now saunas are taking off because new facilities have just popped up. There just hadn't been good saunas for people to plan these types of work events at so it could take off.

[Belle Lynn]

That was our reporter, Angel Au Young. Coming up, the nation's top cybersecurity agency could see some big changes in President Elect Trump's second administration. We'll find out what that could look like after the break.

[Angel Au Young]

This podcast is brought to you by Eaton Vance ETFs. Can your fixed income ETF adapt to changing markets? Get to know actively managed EVTR, the symbol of [e-mail] Symbols before investing, prospective.

[Narrator]

Investors should carefully consider the investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. The current prospectus contains this and other information and is [e-mail] read the prospectus carefully before investing not FDIC insured offer no bank guarantee May lose value not insured by any federal government agency Not a deposit Investments involve risk Principal losses possible distributed by Foresight Fund Services llc.

[Belle Lynn]

The Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, or cisa, faces an uncertain future in President Elect Trump's second term. Criticism of the agency, which was created by Trump in 2018, has come from Republican lawmakers. Project 2025 and corporate cybersecurity executives. And just last week, Trump appointed Tesla CEO Elon Musk and former Republican presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy to lead an initiative to cut government spending and restructure federal agencies. WSJ reporter James Rundle tells us how CISA could change under the new administration and why various groups have criticized it for overreach. So, James, what are some of CISA's responsibilities?

[James Rundle]

So CISA is the primary federal agency responsible for cybersecurity among civilian branch agencies in the government. So everything basically outside of DoD, it's responsible for coordinating between them, making sure they have the appropriate protections in place, and they're all secure from hackers. But it also has a number of ancillary roles as well. It's responsible for interfacing with the 16 critical infrastructure sectors, which includes things like telecommunications, gas, energy, the financial services sector. And it also has a very, very important role in election security as well. CISA doesn't just handle the cybersecurity aspects of that, but it also handles an element of physical security as well. There have been a lot of criticisms from lawmakers around President Elect Trump over the past few years around cisa, around its role specifically in disinformation, which has become something of a lightning rod for criticism from a number of congressional Republicans, not least of all Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky, who is now taking over as chair of the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Government affairs, which is CISA's primary overseer.

[Belle Lynn]

And what is President Elect Trump's history with cisa?

[James Rundle]

In a word, it's complicated. So Trump stood up the agency himself back in 2018. It was his creation. But over the first couple of years, it was a bit of a rocky relationship. And it came to a head in the 2020 election when its first director, Christopher Krebs, came onto Twitter now X obviously, and said there was no evidence of elections hampering or fraud or anything of the sort. And Trump famously fired him by tweet. And since then, Trump hasn't said too much about cisa. He's let a lot of the lawmakers I spoke about do the talking. There were also pretty heavy mentions of it in Project 2025, which is a policy document drawn up by a conservative think tank, including a lot of members of Trump's first administration, which he has publicly distanced himself from. But that called basically for the complete gutting of cisa, for a lot of its roles to be transferred to the Transportation Department, and for a real narrowing of its mission.

[Belle Lynn]

So there are A number of parties that have criticized cisa. What about corporate cyber executives? What does the business world have to say about cisa?

[James Rundle]

They're broadly pretty positive from the people I speak to, at least. CISA has done a lot over the last four years, in particular to really boost its relationships with the private sector. It stood up this entity called the Joint Cyber Defense Collaborative, which is an interface between government, law enforcement and the private sector. Especially when things go wrong or there's a big event such as the Olympics or the super bowl or something like that, then they all get together and talk about it. They share intelligence through it. There have been some criticisms of CISA that they haven't perhaps been as effective as the private sector would like. But on the whole, the broad sentiment from most people I speak to is that they've done a pretty good job and their role is increasingly crucial all the time, when threats from nation states, which have in the past been really the government's preserve, are now increasingly faced by corporations as well.

[Belle Lynn]

Last week, Trump appointed Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy to lead this new Department of Government Efficiency, or doge. How could this potentially impact cisa?

[James Rundle]

CISA is kind of a ripe target for the kind of things that DOGE wants to do. Its budget has increased over the last year from 2 billion to $3 billion. It's hired pretty widely. The criticism from Republicans makes it seem like it does a lot more than its core mission. And some people we spoke to said that there might be a pause in new initiatives, there might be a pullback on existing ones, just to make sure that, in their words, the mission is focused properly, which can mean anything from reductions in headcount through to cutbacks entirely.

[Belle Lynn]

Is there a risk that CISA might go away altogether?

[James Rundle]

There is always a risk. And Rand Paul, the senator from Kentucky I spoke about earlier, has said that he would like that in an ideal world, but even he admits it's unlikely. People we spoke to said that there are lawmakers on both sides of the House that would pretty much go to the map for cisa. They understand its importance. And also CISA is so deeply embedded now in so many various parts of the federal government, it would be hard to extract it quickly. The risk is that we end up in a situation where we were maybe eight years ago, before CISA was even created, where there is no real coordination at the federal level and every agency does their own thing, and as a result, you end up with chaos.

[Belle Lynn]

James, what has CISA said about all this?

[James Rundle]

CISA's remains diplomatic about this. A spokesman said the agency is fully committed to a seamless transition and left it there in the same way that the Trump transition team said the American people reelected President Trump by a resounding margin, giving him a mandate to implement the promises he made in the campaign trail. Everyone's waiting to see what happens, although we do know some changes coming. Jenny Salee, the current director, said she will stand down on the day of President Trump's inauguration, along with all other politically appointed officials. So that will herald a change at the top of the agency for sure.

[Belle Lynn]

That was our reporter James Rundle. And that's it for Tech News Briefing. Today's show was produced by Julie Chang, with supervising producer Catherine Millsop logging off. I'm Belle Lynn for the Wall Street Journal. We'll sign back in this afternoon with TNB Tech Minute. Thanks for listening.