A Settlement in a 20-Year Legal Fight Could Make it Harder to Use Your Rewards Credit Card

Summary

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WSJ What’s News - PM Edition

Episode: A Settlement in a 20-Year Legal Fight Could Make it Harder to Use Your Rewards Credit Card

Date: November 10, 2025
Host: Alex Zolsalev (The Wall Street Journal)
Key Guests: AnnaMaria Andriotis (WSJ Banking Reporter), Matthew Dalton (WSJ Paris Correspondent)

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Overview

This episode explores the ramifications of a historic legal settlement between merchants and major payment networks Visa and Mastercard—potentially changing how and where consumers can use their credit card rewards. It also covers the U.S. government shutdown and its political fallout, China’s rise in renewable energy, and IMAX’s surge amid Hollywood’s continued box office struggles.

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1. The Visa/Mastercard Lawsuit Settlement & The Future of Rewards Cards

Segment Begins: 00:33

Main Discussion Points

• Settlement Background:
  A 20-year legal fight between merchants and Visa/Mastercard over rising "interchange fees"—the service fee charged by banks to merchants each time a credit card is used—has led to a new settlement.

• Interchange Fees Demystified:
  Rewards cards have higher interchange fees than other cards. Merchants “pay tens of billions of dollars in these fees every year... because more and more people are shopping with rewards cards.”

  “Much of this comes down to interchange fees. ...They vary, but they’re often between 2% and 2.5% of the purchase price.”
  — AnnaMaria Andriotis [02:11]

• Honor All Cards Rule Change:
  Historically, merchants accepting one Visa/MC card had to accept them all. The new rules enable merchants to refuse high-fee rewards cards.

  “For decades, Visa and Mastercard have had what they call an 'honor all cards' rule. ...What this settlement has done...is it essentially says to merchants, ‘OK, we’re creating three buckets of acceptance for credit cards.’ The moment you choose to accept one rewards credit card...you have to accept all of those.”
  — AnnaMaria Andriotis [03:14]

• Who Will Be Affected?
  Large retailers are unlikely to reject rewards cards since refusing them could drive away customers and hurt sales. Small businesses, however, may reject these cards or impose surcharges.

  “It will be likely that consumers will see this with smaller merchants. Small businesses—think, you know, bagel store, hair salon, the stuff that’s just in your neighborhood.”
  — AnnaMaria Andriotis [03:48]

  Merchants may also choose to charge extra for using premium rewards cards.

• Impact on Banks:
  The settlement disrupts a long-standing guarantee banks had regarding merchant acceptance of their cards, potentially creating more competition among banks to offer attractive card products to both consumers and merchants.

  “This honor all cards rule basically said to the banks, guys, don’t worry about it...Because the moment a merchant accepts one of Visa’s credit cards, they have to accept all of them. Right? That’s not the case anymore.”
  — AnnaMaria Andriotis [04:38]

Notable Quotes

• “We’re definitely entering a new era of credit card rules that could impact...the vast majority of credit cards with rewards programs out there.”
  — AnnaMaria Andriotis [00:38]

• “The chances of merchants [rejecting rewards cards] with big merchants—not very high...But with smaller merchants, it’s more likely.”
  — AnnaMaria Andriotis [03:37]

Key Timestamps

• [00:33] — Introduction: Merchants could stop accepting rewards cards.
• [01:48] — Will consumers be affected?
• [02:11] — Interchange fees explained.
• [03:14] — Details of the settlement and ‘honor all cards’ rule.
• [03:48] — Potential merchant responses.
• [04:38] — Bank impacts.

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2. U.S. Government Shutdown Updates

Segment Begins: 05:18

Main Discussion Points

• Senate Movement:
  A possible end to the shutdown is in sight, with eight Democratic Senators breaking ranks. The GOP-led House is expected to vote soon.

• Political Fallout:
  Friction between Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer and critics questioning his control is noted.

• Travel Disruptions:
  Over 1,600 flights cancelled; the FAA and weather combine for major travel headaches.

• Stock Market Reaction:
  Optimism over a deal lifts the NASDAQ by 2.3%—its biggest single-day rally since May.

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3. China & The Global Green Energy Shift

Segment Begins: 09:25

Main Discussion Points

• China’s Investments:
  Massive domestic investments in solar, wind, and batteries. Chinese clean energy products are now ubiquitous worldwide.

  “China has been flooding global markets with these products...Developing countries...have really been turning to solar and batteries in particular.”
  — Matthew Dalton [09:32]

• Climate Goals Outlook:
  Despite progress, the world likely won't meet the Paris Accord’s 1.5°C warming limit; even 2°C is increasingly challenging.

  “Most people think 1.5 degrees is out of reach. ...Under 2 degrees, even that is going to be tough.”
  — Matthew Dalton [10:45]

Notable Quotes

• “It’s sort of a double-edged sword for the West...the entire world is relying on China for a lot of this stuff.”
  — Matthew Dalton [10:06]

Key Timestamps

• [09:32] — Overview of China’s green tech dominance.
• [10:35] — Status of global climate targets.

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4. IMAX Booms as Hollywood Struggles

Segment Begins: 11:25

Main Discussion Points

• IMAX as Box Office Outlier:
  While overall box office numbers lag, IMAX is hitting record-high market share and projected to top $1.2 billion worldwide for the first time.

• Blockbuster Releases:
  “Mission Impossible: The Final Reckoning” took in 20% of its opening weekend from IMAX screens.

• Exclusive IMAX Content:
  Some films feature sequences only shown in the IMAX format, creating scarcity and driving traffic to big screens.

Notable Quotes

• “There are several sequences in The Final Reckoning that are created specifically for IMAX...It’s a spectacular way to watch the film.”
  — Christopher McQuarrie, Director (quote aired at [12:03])

Key Timestamps

• [12:03] — Movie director and stars advocate for the IMAX experience.

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Summary Table of Key Segments

| Topic | Speaker(s) | Timestamps | Key Points | |-----------------------------------|-------------------------|---------------|--------------------------------------------------| | Credit Card Rewards Settlement | AnnaMaria Andriotis | 00:33–05:15 | Merchant acceptance, bank impact, consumer effect | | U.S. Government Shutdown | Alex Zolsalev | 05:18–09:25 | Political, economic, and travel ramifications | | China’s Green Energy Dominance | Matthew Dalton | 09:25–11:21 | Clean tech surge, global climate targets | | IMAX in Hollywood | Alex Zolsalev + Guests | 11:25–12:49 | IMAX’s boom, blockbuster exclusives |

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• “Possibly. And I say that because it’s a complicated question.”
  — AnnaMaria Andriotis, on whether consumers should worry about their rewards cards being rejected [01:48]

• “The moment you choose to accept one rewards credit card...you have to accept all of those credit cards.”
  — AnnaMaria Andriotis [03:18]

• “It’s sort of a double-edged sword for the West… And so the entire world is relying on China for a lot of this stuff.”
  — Matthew Dalton [10:06]

• “There are several sequences in The Final Reckoning that are created specifically for IMAX.”
  — Christopher McQuarrie, Director [12:03]

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Tone & Style

The tone is brisk, fact-driven, and clear, with brief moments of explanatory detail to help listeners grasp complex finance and policy topics. Practical effects on everyday life are emphasized throughout, especially regarding credit cards and the current political situation.

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For Listeners

This episode provides crucial updates for anyone who uses credit card rewards, follows U.S. political developments, cares about climate policy, or loves movies and cinema innovation—all in a concise but comprehensive rundown.

Transcript

[A]

Here's Chen Wang, Vanguard's chief economist, Asia Pacific and global head of the Vanguard Capital Markets model. On the appeal of an international investment international company. They have a more reasonable valuation, higher dividend yield, as well as potentially some US Dollar depreciation becoming their tailwind. For more insights, go to vanguard.com all.

[B]

Investments are subject to risk, including the possible loss of the money you invest. Diversification does not ensure a profit or protect against a loss. Investments in stocks or bonds issued by non US Companies are subject to risks, including country and regional risk and currency risk.

[A]

Got one of those rewards credit cards? Well, merchants could stop accepting them.

[C]

We're definitely entering a new era of credit card rules that could impact most the vast majority of credit cards with rewards programs out there.

[A]

Plus, there's a possible end to the government shutdown that has Democrats feel furious at defectors within their own party. And Hollywood may be struggling to bounce back after the pandemic, but IMAX is booming. It's Monday, November 10th. I'm Alex Zosalev for the Wall Street Journal. This is the PM edition of what's news, the top headlines and business stories that move the world today. Do you have one of those premium rewards cards like the JPMorgan Chase, Sapphire Reserve or. Well, stores could soon be rejecting them. That's because of a settlement between merchants and Visa and MasterCard in a legal fight over credit card swipe fees that dates back two decades. Anna Maria Andreotis, who covers the banking sector for the Journal, is here to talk about what this deal means for merchants, banks and the rest of us. So, Anna Maria, should consumers be worried that these popular credit cards won't be accepted in a lot of places?

[C]

Possibly. And I say that because it's a complicated question. We're definitely entering a new era of credit card rules that could impact most the vast majority of credit cards with rewards programs out there.

[A]

So let's back up for a second. What was this case about?

[C]

Much of this comes down to interchange fees. So every time that consumers pay with a credit card, the merchant pays pays the bank that issued your credit card what's called an interchange fee. These fees vary, but they're often between 2% to 2.5% of the purchase price. Merchants pay tens of billions of dollars in these fees every year. These costs have been rising so much for merchants because more and more consumers have switched from cash and debit cards to credit. Car 2 It's because more and more people are shopping with rewards cards. And it's because credit cards with rewards have higher interchange fees than credit cards that don't have rewards programs.

[A]

So this legal settlement has enabled merchants to reject some of these cards if they want to. But have they said that they won't take rewards cards?

[C]

For decades, Visa and MasterCard have had what they call an honor all cards rule. What this rule has said is merchant, if you accept one Visa credit card, you have to accept all Visa credit cards. What this settlement has done, if it's approved by the court, is it essentially says to merchants, okay, we're creating three buckets of acceptance for credit cards. But the moment that you choose to accept one rewards credit card, that falls into that rewards bucket, you have to accept all of those credit cards. So here's what consumers can expect. There is a possibility that merchants, when you pull out to pay with a rewards credit card, they'll say no. The chances of merchants doing that are, with big merchants, not very high because what it could result in would be merchants seeing their sales fall potentially in a pretty substantial way. It will be likely that consumers will see this with smaller merchants. Small businesses think of like, you know, the bagel store, the hair salon, the stuff that's just in your neighborhood. Another thing that consumers could be seeing. Rather than rejecting the credit card outright, the merchants in particular smaller merchants might say, well, I'm going to charge you extra for that.

[A]

You mentioned banks. How have they responded to this move?

[C]

It does not benefit banks when something like this happened. This honor roll cards rule basically said to the banks, guys, don't worry about it. You don't have to compete against each other. You don't have to have your own card products competing against each other. Because the moment a merchant accepts one of a Visa's credit cards, they have to accept all of them. Right. That's not the case anymore. So it's going to make it a little bit tougher right now. It potentially starts to create a little bit more of a real competitive environment for banks when it comes to merchant acceptance.

[A]

That was WSJ reporter Anna Maria Andreotis. Thanks, Anna Maria.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

As we mentioned in this morning's show, there's an end in sight to the government shutdown that's due to eight senators who have broken with Democratic leadership to help Republicans advance a measure that funds the government. The Senate could have its final vote on the measure later today, followed by a vote in the GOP run House later this week. The crack in party unity drew condemnation from many Democrats with some left leaning critics saying Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer can't keep his troops in line. In the meantime, the shutdown drags on. Aviation analytics company Cirium says more than 1600 flights have been canceled today as of this afternoon, or around 6.3% of the schedule. Bad weather is worsening the pain caused by the FAA flight restrictions and the number of disrupted flights is expected to grow. Meanwhile, President Trump is threatening to dock the pay of air traffic controllers who don't return to work. If flight restrictions have disrupted your travel plans in the past few days, let us know. Send a voice memo to wnpodsj.com hopes of an end to the government shutdown helped lift stocks today. The Nasdaq led gains closing up 2.3%, its biggest one day rally since May. After a steep slide last week, chip stocks and the Magnificent Seven tech companies rose, the S&P climbed 1.5% and the Dow rose less than 1%. Once the government reopens, a slew of delayed government economic data will likely be released. In the meantime, we've been looking at alternative data to get a sense of how the economy is doing. We dropped the first special episode in a four part series on alternative economic indicators today, looking at what Nevada's employment picture can tell us about the broader US Economy. That's in the what's News feed now. Coming up, why IMAX's big screens are bringing in big money. That's after the break. Exchanges, the Goldman Sachs podcast featuring exchanges on navigating macro uncertainty exchanges on the forces shaping global markets. For the sharpest analysis on finance, business and the economy, count on exchanges between leading minds at Goldman Sachs. New episodes every week. Listen now. President Trump pardoned a list of top allies in connection with efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election. The list of pardons includes high profile figures such as Trump's former chief of staff Mark Meadows, lawyers Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell, as well as dozens of others. None of the people identified on the list have been charged with federal crimes, making the pardons a largely symbolic move. The federal pardon would not affect charges brought by state prosecutors. The U.S. supreme Court has rejected a long shot bid to overTurn the landmark 2015 decision that gave same sex couples the constitutional right to marry. In a brief written order, the court turned away an appeal by Kim Davis, a Kentucky county clerk who had denied a marriage license to a gay couple. And the Food and Drug Administration said manufacturers should remove black box warnings on hormone replacement therapy, drugs that alleviate menopause symptoms. In an opinion piece published today in the Wall Street Journal, FDA Commissioner Marty McCary says clinical trials that appeared to show increased breast cancer risk were not in fact statistically significant. He says those warnings may have kept many women away from what could be life changing treatment. The big United nations climate conference, known as COP30, starts this week in Brazil. Just as political support is faltering for the landmark Paris Climate Accord adopted at the UN Climate Conference a decade ago. The US has pulled out of the agreement and Europe and Canada are wary of the cost and political unpopularity of climate measures. It's China that has emerged as a clean technology superpower. Paris correspondent Matthew Dalton joins us now. Matthew, what have China's investments in greentech looked like?

[B]

Well, they are making enormous manufacturing investments in all of the big clean energy technologies. They are installing huge numbers of solar panels, wind turbines, batteries domestically and their own electricity grid. A lot of people think that those installations are so large that they're able to cover China's electricity demand growth on their own. So that's what's happening inside China. And it's just been this titanic shift that few people saw coming actually when the Paris Accord was signed in 2015. Overseas China has been flooding global markets with these products as well. So developing countries all around the world have really been turning to solar and batteries in particular, as in some cases the least costly choice for installing power generation. It's sort of double edged sword for the west because they haven't been able to compete in many of these technologies. And so the entire world is relying on China for a lot of this stuff.

[A]

So the Paris Agreement called for world governments to try to limit global warming to the rise of 1.5 degrees Celsius since the industrial age. Where do those goals stand now?

[B]

Global emissions are still rising. China's emissions are plateauing, maybe, maybe starting to fall. It's unclear, but emissions in some other countries are still rising. So Most people think 1.5 degrees is out of reach. Without some insane economic catastrophe striking the globe under 2 degrees, even that is going to be tough. But the emergence of China, the new market dynamics of clean energy, does make this at least under 2 degrees possible.

[A]

That was WSJ reporter Matthew Dalton. Thank you, Matthew.

[B]

Thanks a lot, Alex.

[A]

And finally, in the movie business, the hot ticket is iMax. The box office overall has struggled to recover from the pandemic, but everyone wants imax. Its share of domestic and global tickets are at record highs and its worldwide box office is on track to exceed $1.2 billion this year for the first time. Take Mission Impossible, the Final Reckoning. When it hit theaters earlier this year, the movie made 20% of its first weekend domestic box office from IMAX screens. The movie star Tom Cruise and its director, Christopher McQuarrie, touted the jumbo screen experience in IMAX's own promotional video.

[B]

Look, we want it on the big screen. IMAX is a beautiful format and we wanted imax. There are several sequences in the Final Reckoning that are created specifically for imax. And seeing them in IMAX on the big screen is the only time you're ever going to see them like that. It's a spectacular way to watch the film.

[A]

Hollywood power players are pitching the CEO of IMAX to take their movies, hoping the big screen gets viewers off the couch and into theaters. And if studios land this prize, they splash the IMAX name on movie ads, sometimes in even bigger print than the title of the movie itself. And that's what's news for this Monday afternoon. Today's show is produced by Pierre Bienname and Zoe Kolkin, with supervising producer Tali Arbel. I'm Alex Osola for the Wall Street Journal. We'll be back with a new show tomorrow morning.

[C]

Thanks for listening.