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Every day, the people of Meta work to protect over 3 billion users around the world.
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Our people get that the eyes of the world are on us. So there's no version where we can't have really good and really robust systems. My name is Nathan and I support our product risk and compliance team. We've been using AI to help make sure everything that needed a privacy or a risk review was getting it. And everything that needs a set of human eyes is getting one.
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Get the fax at meta.me risk. Hey, what's news, listeners? It's Sunday, March 29th. I'm Alex Osola for the Wall Street Journal. This is what's New Sunday, the show where we tackle the big questions about the biggest stories in the news by reaching out to our colleagues across the newsroom to help explain what's happening in our world. On today's show, Agentic AI is the buzziest word in tech right now. AI agents are taking on tasks like tracking customer orders and making restaurant reservations. And the next generation promises to be even more powerful, becoming kind of like a personal assistant. But AI agents also come with big risks, even as they may stand to finally help tech companies make money off artificial intelligence. Journal tech reporter Isabel Bousquet joins me to discuss. Isabel, when developers or companies refer to an AI agent or AI assistant, what do they mean? Like, what is that? Like?
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This is a very overhyped, overused term, and I don't think the industry has a common definition. But at its base, an agent is an AI that can do something for you. It becomes agentic when you say, make this restaurant reservation for me. Book this doctor's appointment for me, book this flight for me, buy this dress for me. Anything where it's going out into the world and executing some behavior on your behalf. That's the point at which it becomes an agent.
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When companies talk about using AI agents, how are they using them?
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We're seeing two kind of big categories emerge. So far, one is in the coding space. There are a million companies that offer this, from the Claude code and OpenAI codecs of the world to cursor replit Lovable. Everyone has an AI coding agent these days. Engineers are using this a lot. The other area we've started to see agents take off is in customer service. It kind of grows out of the traditional phone tree technology that was not really AI enabled at all, but now it can be. If a customer calls with a question about, like, where their order is, an AI agent can handle that call and give status updates or replace a missing loyalty card or Things like that.
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How do these tools actually help companies make money?
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We know companies are spending a lot of money to use them. If we take engineering, this is the example a lot of people use because it's just the most mature use case by far. So every time a coder uses an agent, it costs money. It costs what they call tokens. And some companies give their engineers a certain allotted number of tokens. And some companies are more flexible, saying have as many tokens as you want. But some companies compare the salary of the engineer to the amount of tokens they're using, and they're saying that in a lot of cases, this person is costing more in tokens than they are in actual salary. But on the flip side of that, they're also looking at the amount of work this person is doing. And they're saying this person is being like 10 times or 50 times more productive than they would if they didn't have a coding agent. So although they're costing two times an engineer salary, they're delivering like 10x of what an engineer can do. So that's how they're weighing the returns at this point.
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The kinds of agents we've been talking about are out there in the world, but there's something else that's coming, right? And it's something called openclaw.
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Yeah. So openclaw is an open source orchestration framework. For it to be a true personal assistant, you have to give it access to everything, which is a huge security concern because there have been instances where it goes and deletes a bunch of your files or deletes a bunch of your emails, or it could get your credit card into a fraud situation. It's very insecure, but the potential is massive for you to just connect it to everything in your system and all of your logins and all of your data. And then these agents, they're doing all these complicated things. You can set it to do a task and then walk away. It's just become this whole other level in terms of what agents are capable of doing.
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Open Claw was acquired by OpenAI last month. But other companies are getting on board with what agents like OpenClaw can do. Here's Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang speaking at the company's annual developers conference earlier this month.
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Every company in the world today needs to have an Open Claw strategy, an Agentix system strategy. This is the new computer.
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Isabelle, what is the promise for this next generation of AI agents for companies?
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Jensen's saying every company needs to have an open cloth strategy was really bold. It's hard to know how different an open clause strategy needs to be be from an agent strategy. The potential for businesses is vast and I think the direction this is all going is that knowledge workers will engage with fewer and fewer interfaces. And if you could think about a way, way, way future state as a knowledge worker, you might just have to engage with your open claw agent. The agent handles the back end of everything and you just have a much simpler, cleaner experience coming up.
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The risks that agentic AI brings with it and where AI agents go from here, that's after the break.
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Protein is now at Starbucks and it's never tasted so good. You can add protein cold foam to your favorite drink or try one of our new protein lattes or Matcha. Try it today at Starbucks.
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Isabella what are the risks that come with the use of agentic AI?
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The idea that an agent can take action is great, but also not great for businesses because an AI by its nature can hallucinate, it can get things wrong. If you're issuing a customer a refund, what if you issue them like too big a refund? Or what if you promise them a deal that doesn't exist exist? You have to put a lot of faith in the agent in order to let it act fully autonomously. So a lot of companies still want to have a human in the loop. They want the agent to do a lot of the legwork and then the human employee can sign off on that. And then agentic shopping is going to be a huge trend, like giving an agent your credit card information and saying, purchase this shirt for me when the price hits $50. But what if it purchases it for you? Well, the price is still $80. If you're a cred credit card company, the one that operates that credit card that was used, are you liable? Is the AI liable? How responsible are people for the actions their agents take? And can agents be hacked to give away your personal, sensitive, valuable data, things like your credit card information? So there's a lot of unknowns and a lot of security concerns. It sort of harkens back to the early days of the Internet when people were afraid to put their credit card information to buy anything online.
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Tech companies have been investing hundreds of billions of dollars into AI. Are AI agents finally the way that AI makes companies money?
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I don't know if we've seen that prove out yet. It still seems like companies are investing a lot of money to use AI and it's been hard for them to point to a clear example of an actual financial return in a lot of ways those financial returns are linked to the size of the workforce they have. And so if they do layoffs and say we're being a lot more efficient with AI, is that an example of a return? So I do think over time there will be some rightsizing of the workforce based on the fact that companies now have all these AI capabilities. But that kind of seems like a longer term horizon. I do think revenue per employee is going up. Like companies are making more money on a per employee basis than they have in the past. But this is something that's just very hard to measure. And so I think a lot of companies have given up on the phase. We made x percent return on the amount of money we spent on AI and have just accepted that this is a necessary technology for them to be using as a company. And even if they can't prove it out with a specific number value, that doesn't make the investment not worth it.
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One of the other bigger conversations that's going on in this moment is particularly investor skepticism about what AI means for companies built around software. Some people are calling it the SaaS apocalypse, referring to software as a service. What does the rise of AI agents tell us about where that conversation is headed?
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The rise of these super capable AI agents is another thing that puts pressure on These traditional legacy SaaS companies, especially the coding agents, because that's where you saw a lot of the SaaS Apocalypse fears stem from, which is with this great new coding agent, I don't need those expensive legacy providers. The more nimble startups with super cutting edge AI agents we see, the more pressure it does put on those companies. From what I've seen, most of those companies are pretty aware of of where things are headed and they've made huge investments themselves in agents. Like if you take Salesforce as an example, like they're making it very front and center in terms of their strategy. I think it's just a question of how fast can those companies move and how good are the agents they're building compared to the AI native startups and the agents they're building.
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That was Wall Street Journal tech reporter Isabel Busquet.
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Thanks, Isabelle. Thanks again for having me.
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And that's what's new Sunday for March 29th. Today's show was produced by Pierre Biennime with supervising producers Tali Arbel and Melanie Roy. I'm Alex Osola and we'll be back tomorrow morning with a brand new show. Until then, thanks for listening.
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The Future of Everything is the Wall Street Journal's flagship live event. Returning to New York City May 4th through 5th. Be there as CEOs, policymakers and innovators sit down with our journalists to answer the most pressing questions of the day. From finance, tech and economic policy to sports streaming and style, we're bringing together today's most compelling newsmakers for two days of conversations on what's Ahead. Listeners of this podcast can access exclusive discounted rates by visiting WSJ.com future that's WSJ.com future.