China-Backed Hackers Use Anthropic AI to Automate Cyberattacks

Summary

WSJ What’s News — PM Edition

Episode Title: China-Backed Hackers Use Anthropic AI to Automate Cyberattacks
Date: November 13, 2025
Host: Sabrina Siddiqi (for Alex Osola)
Featured Guest: Sam Schechner (WSJ Technology Reporter)

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Episode Overview

This episode explores a major development in cybersecurity: state-backed Chinese hackers using Anthropic's AI (Claude) to automate sophisticated cyberattacks on a global scale. Additional major topics covered included Verizon’s historic job cuts, Disney’s financial woes, the U.S. market decline, new streaming trends, updates in cable broadcasting, a federal lawsuit over California’s congressional map, and a bold ballot initiative to tax billionaires’ wealth.

The focus segment is a deep dive discussion between Sabrina Siddiqi and Sam Schechner on the implications of AI-powered cyberattacks, Anthropic’s response, and what this means for the future of cybersecurity and AI governance.

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Key Segments & Insights

Verizon Announces Massive Layoffs

[00:48 - 02:23]

• Headline: Verizon to cut roughly 15,000 jobs, the largest reduction in its history.
• Key Points:
  • This comes amid subscriber losses in both wireless and home internet, and leadership changes with Dan Schulman as the new CEO.
  • 200 stores to be franchised, moving employees off payroll.
• Contextual Quote:
  “Verizon is the largest US Telecom company when you're going by subscribers, but it's struggling to hold on to customers…” — Sabrina Siddiqi, [00:54]

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Disney Disappoints Wall Street

[02:23 - 02:58]

• Issue: Disney’s quarterly results underperform investor expectations.
• Investor Concerns: Transition from traditional TV to streaming, and execution of expensive long-term projects.

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Main Feature: China-Backed Hackers Use Anthropic AI for Cyberattacks

[02:58 - 05:54]

1. A Transformative Moment in AI-Driven Hacking

• Inflection Point: Hackers are now orchestrating entire attacks via AI, not just discrete tasks.

• Sam Schechner explains:
  “We've seen hackers do more and more individual tasks using AI. …What Anthropic is reporting here is that they saw AI orchestrating an attack over all of these different steps, with humans only getting involved in a few individual choke points.” — Sam Schechner, [03:02]

• Automation Scale:
  “A company official saying 80 to 90% of the attack was automated.” — Sabrina Siddiqi, [02:51]

2. Targets and Outcomes

• Targets: 30 entities detected — tech corporations, financial services, a chemical company, and foreign governments.
• Security Breaches: Only three or four instances where hackers got into target systems; U.S. not among them.

3. How Hackers Circumvented AI Safeguards

• Method: Posed as security contractors conducting legitimate “penetration testing.”
• Jailbreaking Tactics: Deconstructed attack tasks into innocuous segments to evade detection.
• Schechner’s Explanation:
  “They also cut the tasks into much smaller bits so that each bit didn't necessarily seem that illicit. And then they were stitched together in such a way that Claude still did most of the activity, but it didn't necessarily. Each instance of it didn't understand that it was part of a broader hacking campaign.” — Sam Schechner, [04:41]

4. Anthropic’s Response and the Ongoing Arms Race

• Countermeasures: Anthropic has implemented external detection methods to spot misuse.
• The Arms Race:
  “It's an arms race really between AI companies and people who would misuse them … the question is, you know, who comes out ahead?” — Sam Schechner, [05:12], [05:49]

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Market Wrap: Broad Decline Amid Rate Cut Doubts

[05:59 - 06:39]

• Stocks: Nasdaq fell 2.3%, Dow down nearly 800 points.
• Reason: Uncertainty over a Federal Reserve interest rate cut.

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Streaming Industry Trends – Price Hikes and "Streamflation"

[07:14 - 09:02]

• Major platforms (HBO, Disney, Peacock, Apple TV, Paramount) have raised subscription prices.

• Consumer Behavior:

  • Despite price increases, people hold onto multiple subscriptions.
  • Trend toward ad-supported tiers, more active pausing/resuming of subscriptions.
  • Melissa Korn:
    “People want to be able to talk about whatever the hot show is that their friends are watching, so they don't really want to walk away from all of it.” — Melissa Korn, [08:14]

• NBCU Launches NBCSN: New sports-focused cable channel

• Carriage: Agreements with YouTube TV, Comcast/Xfinity in place.

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Politics & Policy

Lawsuit Over California’s Congressional Map

[09:02 - 11:02]

• Federal Challenge: DOJ sues, alleging new map is an illegal racial gerrymander.
• Stakes: Could shift House control in 2026 midterms.

California Billionaire Wealth Tax Ballot Initiative

[11:02 - 13:05]

• Proposal: One-time 5% tax on net worth over $1 billion.
• Purpose: Offset healthcare cuts — although broader “tax the rich” sentiment permeates support.
• Obstacles: Needs 875,000 signatures and voter approval; faces opposition from Governor Newsom and “Stop the Squeeze” PAC.
• Logistical Challenges:
  • Difficulty in valuing illiquid assets (private company shares, art, IP).
  • Uncertainty about actual number of billionaires to tax.
• Paul Kiernan:
  “Another thing that's going to make it difficult is nobody really knows exactly how many billionaires there are. It's much harder to get conclusive data on billionaires who own shares in private companies, intellectual property rights, who own a lot of art and collectibles. The state, if this passes, is going to have its work cut out for it. Just figuring out who to go after.” — Paul Kiernan, [12:25]

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On the inflection point in AI hacking:
  “What Anthropic is reporting here is … AI orchestrating an attack over all of these different steps, with humans only getting involved in a few individual choke points.”
  — Sam Schechner, [03:02]

• On sidestepping safeguards:
  “The hackers posed as security contractors…which is a legitimate use of AI. And so that was how the hackers were able to sidestep some of Anthropic's protections.”
  — Sam Schechner, [04:16]

• On the arms race in AI security:
  “It's an arms race really between AI companies and people who would misuse them… The question is, you know, who comes out ahead?”
  — Sam Schechner, [05:12]; [05:49]

• On wealth tax logistics:
  "The state, if this passes, is going to have its work cut out for it. Just figuring out who to go after.”
  — Paul Kiernan, [12:25]

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Conclusion

This episode delivers a concise yet deeply informative roundup of headline business, tech, and political news, anchored by breaking details on how Chinese state-backed hackers leveraged Anthropic’s AI to automate cyberattacks — signaling a pivotal escalation in the cybersecurity arms race. The discussion contextualizes how AI tools are exploited, outlines industry responses, and frames a larger narrative about the accelerating tension between AI innovation and security. Also notable are updates on market turmoil, evolving streaming economics, and bold political initiatives with national implications.

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For further listening:

• Tomorrow’s Tech News Briefing with more from Melissa Korn
• Future episodes for ongoing coverage of AI in cybersecurity and policy developments

Transcript

[Podcast Narrator]

This episode is brought to you by Netflix from the creator of Homeland. Claire Danes and Matthew Rhys star in the new Netflix series the Beast in Me as ruthless rivals whose shared darkness will set them on a collision course with fatal consequences. The Beast in Me is a riveting psychological cat and mouse story about guilt, justice and doubt. You will not want to miss this. The Beast in Me is now playing only on Netflix.

[Sabrina Siddiqi]

In California, there's a push for an unprecedented wealth tax on billionaires, plus an inflection point in hackers using AI to automate dozens of attacks on governments and corporations.

[Sam Schechner]

It's an arms race, really, between AI companies and people who would misuse them.

[Sabrina Siddiqi]

And Verizon plans to cut roughly 15,000 jobs in its largest reduction ever it's Thursday, November 13th. I'm Sabrina for the Wall Street Journal, sitting in for Alex Osola. This is the PM edition of what's News, the top headlines and business stories that move the world. Today, we exclusively report that Verizon is planning to cut roughly 15,000 jobs in its largest reduction ever. That's according to people familiar with the matter. The cuts are likely going to happen next week, and most of them will be layoffs. The company also plans to turn about 200 stores into franchises, moving employees off its payroll. Verizon is the largest US Telecom company when you're going by subscribers, but it's struggling to hold on to customers in both the wireless and home Internet markets. Last month, the company named a new CEO, Dan Schulman, who is the former chief executive of PayPal and Virgin Mobile USA. He has said he would aggressively reduce the company's cost base and take steps to reverse the customer losses. In other tech and media news, Disney's stock fell more than 7% today after lackluster quarterly results that fell short of Wall street expectations. Revenue was basically flat and a key operating profit measure dropped 5%. The company's parks and streaming businesses posted profit gains, but investors remained worried about Disney's ability to manage the transition from traditional TV to streaming and and to execute on the multibillion dollar investments it is making in theme parks and cruise ships. We're exclusively reporting that Anthropic, one of the world's largest AI startups, said today that state sponsored hackers from China used the company's tools for dozens of cyber attacks on governments and major corporations. Anthropic says the September hacking campaign involved an unprecedented level of automation, with a company official saying 80 to 90% of the attack was automated. Sam Schechner, a tech reporter at the Wall Street Journal joins us now to discuss. Sam, is this a turning point in hackers use of AI in their attacks?

[Sam Schechner]

Yeah, it really does seem to be something of an inflection point. We've seen hackers do more and more individual tasks using AI. It helps them write phishing emails, it helps them scan for vulnerabilities. What Anthropic is reporting here is that they saw AI orchestrating an attack over all of these different steps, with humans only getting involved in a few individual choke points. And so the company itself says that this is an inflection point.

[Sabrina Siddiqi]

And what do we know about the hackers, the targets, and what information they were able to get?

[Sam Schechner]

We don't know that much. Anthropic did not disclose who the targets were. It said that there were roughly 30 targets that it detected, including tech corporations, financial services, a chemical company, as well as foreign governments. They wouldn't say whether the US was a target, but they did confirm that the US was not one of the handful of three or four instances where the hackers did manage to get into their target systems.

[Sabrina Siddiqi]

Hackers were able to go around safeguards in Anthropic's AI tools known as claude. How did they do that?

[Sam Schechner]

The company says that the hackers posed as security contractors for the targets and said that they were conducting what's called penetration testing, trying to get into those targets and find vulnerabilities, which is a legitimate use of AI. And so that was how the hackers were able to sidestep some of Anthropic's protections.

[Sabrina Siddiqi]

Is that an unusual approach to pose as testers?

[Sam Schechner]

No, in fact, that's a pretty standard approach to what's known as jailbreaking an AI system. In this case, not only did they pose as security researchers, but they also cut the tasks into much smaller bits so that each bit didn't necessarily seem that illicit. And then they were stitched together in such a way that CLAUDE still did most of the activity, but it didn't necessarily. Each instance of it didn't understand that it was part of a broader hacking campaign.

[Sabrina Siddiqi]

What has the company done in response in updating methods to circumvent hackers?

[Sam Schechner]

Anthropic said that it has new methods of detecting hackers and so they've updated the methods that are kind of outside of cloud that you would use to detect this kind of misuse. It's an arms race really between AI companies and people who would misuse them. In general, the private AI companies who keep a tighter hold of their systems, like anthropic or like OpenAI are somewhat less exposed to this kind of misuse. Hackers were using the latest technology to hack long before AI, and they're going to continue to do that. And the question is, you know, who comes out ahead?

[Sabrina Siddiqi]

That was the Wall Journal's Sam Schechner. Thank you, Sam.

[Sam Schechner]

Of course. Thanks so much for having me.

[Sabrina Siddiqi]

There was a broad market decline on Wall street today with worries that the Federal Reserve could decide not to cut interest rates next month. Weighing on stocks, the Nasdaq led declines, dropping 2.3% as chip stocks including Nvidia AI Infrastructure Co. CoreWeave, Tesla and other technology companies took a dive. The Dow was off nearly 800 points, or 1.7%, and the S&P also fell 1.7%. Coming up, how a push for a first of its kind tax on billionaires is playing out in California. That's after the break.

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[Sabrina Siddiqi]

The range of options for how to watch shows and movies without cable is only growing, and so is the price tag. In the last several months, we've seen price increases from hbo, Max, Disney, Peacock and Apple tv. Paramount is raising prices early next year. The Journal's deputy media bureau chief, Melissa Korn reports on the newest wave of streamflation.

[Melissa Korn]

We seem to be stubbornly committed to our streaming subscriptions these days. And even though the prices have risen in some cases quite significantly over the past few years, research shows that people are still subscribing to multiple plans. Streaming is kind of running our lives right now. There's all these different tiers of service now for a lot of the different streaming platforms. But essentially the two main versions are ad free and ad supported. And there's been a shift more toward the ad supported, so you pay a little less, but you do have to watch commercials.

[Sabrina Siddiqi]

Melissa says people aren't significantly changing their streaming habits even as prices go up.

[Melissa Korn]

We haven't seen this price fatigue yet, but when people do kind of an audit of their subscriptions. They're sometimes shocked to see how many things they subscribe to. So occasionally we'll see some push toward that and people trimming down. But at the same time, people want to be able to talk about whatever the hot show is that their friends are watching, so they don't really want to walk away from all of it. So you may see more of a push toward the bundled plans, more of a push toward the ad supported plans, and more and more. We've already started to see this and reported on it pausing, right? So you pause your subscription for three months and then you rejoin it when the new season of the show you want comes back. So you're kind of dipping in and out of these subscriptions more actively versus just holding them long term.

[Sabrina Siddiqi]

You can hear more from Melissa on tomorrow's episode of Tech News Briefing. And even if it's the age of streaming, NBCUniversal is going old school and launching a new cable channel. NBCSN will launch on Monday and mostly carry sports that are also streamed on the company's Peacock service, including NBA games, Big Ten college football, golf and Premier League soccer. Google's YouTube TV, one of the country's largest paid TV providers with roughly 10 million subscribers, has agreed to carry the channel. Comcast, NBCU's parent company, will also carry it on its Xfinity cable platform, and NBCU said it expects to sign more deals by the end of the year. The Justice Department is suing California to block its new congressional map for the 2026 midterm elections. The lawsuit intensifies a political and legal fight that could determine control of the House of Representatives. The federal government argues that California's new electoral lines adding five Democratic leaning districts are an illegal racial gerrymander. The state hasn't yet responded to the litigation, but California Democrats have described their efforts as a legal response to a Texas map. That map, approved this summer, adds as many as five Republican leaning districts and is also the subject of litigation. And in California, there's a new approach to taxing the rich. A ballot initiative proposed by a healthcare workers union would take aim at the state's billionaires with a one time 5% tax on net worth over $1 billion. If this went into effect, it would be an unprecedented effort to tax wealth rather than income. That means instead of taxing, for example, salary, the state would be taxing assets, a person's stock portfolio, art collection, cars and even intellectual property rights. WSJ economics reporter Paul Kiernan says the measure is being sponsored by a healthcare workers union.

[Paul Kiernan]

The union is being pretty disciplined about saying this is only aiming to raise tax revenue to offset health care cuts. But everyone around this proposal, everyone who is advising it, everyone who's supporting it, when you talk to them, they couch it much more in terms of like, tax the rich. A lot of the people who are supporting this proposal are people who have been saying for a long time that the richest Americans have basically gotten too wealthy and too powerful, and the only way to take them down a peg is by taxing their assets. You can't really get there by taxing their income.

[Sabrina Siddiqi]

The ballot measure is no sure thing. Supporters need to gather 875,000 signatures and then win approval from California voters next November. It's already encountered significant opposition.

[Paul Kiernan]

Governor Gavin Newsom has said he is against the measure. He's against wealth taxes. And also this week, a group of political strategists with ties to Newsom launched a political action committee called Stop the Squeeze to oppose the campaign. When you talk to people who oppose this idea, they're very concerned that it could open up the floodgates. You know, critics of this measure say that it's not outlandish. In fact, it's to be expected that if it succeeds, you could get a whole slew of other interest groups trying to tax billionaires to raise money for their initiatives.

[Sabrina Siddiqi]

Paul also says it would be hard for California to figure out the logistics of a tax on assets.

[Paul Kiernan]

It would impose a pretty substantial burden on the state revenue authorities. One reason for that is that California is home to a lot of tech startups. Shares of private companies are hard to value. They're liquid. Another thing that's going to make it difficult is nobody really knows exactly how many billionaires there are. It's much harder to get conclusive data on billionaires who own shares in private companies, intellectual property rights, who own a lot of art and collectibles. The state, if this passes, is going to have its work cut out for it. Just figuring out who to go after.

[Sabrina Siddiqi]

And that's what's news for this Thursday afternoon. Today's show was produced by Pierre Bienname and Zoe Culkin with supervising producer Tali Arbel. I'm Sabrina Siddiqi for the Wall Street Journal. We'll be back with a new show tomorrow morning. Thanks for listening.

[Sam Schechner]

Sam.