China, U.S. Near Deal on TikTok

Summary

Podcast Summary: WSJ What’s News – “China, U.S. Near Deal on TikTok”

Date: September 17, 2025
Host: Caitlin McCabe (The Wall Street Journal)
Duration Covered: 00:20 – 10:50

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Episode Overview

This morning edition focuses on three significant global developments:

• The potential resolution to the ongoing TikTok-US ownership saga, with the U.S. and China nearing a deal;
• President Trump’s unprecedented second state visit to the UK;
• Economic and market updates, including issues around Fed independence and a major leadership change at Ben & Jerry’s.

The tone is brisk, factual, and insightful, as typical for WSJ’s news summaries.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. U.S. Investors and TikTok: A Groundbreaking Deal in the Works

[00:36–03:26]

• Deal Structure:

  • A U.S. investor group (Oracle, Silverlake, Andreessen Horowitz) would acquire ~80% stake in TikTok’s U.S. business.

  • Chinese shareholders, mainly ByteDance, retain just under 20%.

  • American board dominance, with a government designee to ensure data security compliance.

    "What would happen is that these American companies would buy a collective stake of about 80% and leave the remainder a little bit under 20% for Chinese shareholders to own."
    —Jonathan Chang, China Bureau Chief (01:18)

• Algorithm as the 'Secret Sauce':

  • Beijing had long considered the TikTok algorithm a protected “national security concern.”

  • A likely compromise: the algorithm remains proprietary to ByteDance but will be licensed to TikTok USA—a crucial concession from China.

    "It's the secret sauce that makes it so successful... Beijing had treated this intellectual property, this algorithm, as a national security concern of its own."
    —Jonathan Chang (02:34)

• Implications:

  • Users in the U.S. would move to a standalone “TikTok USA,” possibly with a reengineered or licensed algorithm.

  • Both sides must still approve terms; the deal is not final.

    "It's worth noting that both China and the US still need to agree to these terms, which in turn could change the outline of this prospective deal."
    —Caitlin McCabe (03:26)

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2. Politics, Economics, and the Independence of Data

[03:26–06:05]

• Bureau of Labor Statistics Shake-Up:

  • Erica McIntarfer, recently dismissed as commissioner by President Trump, warns her firing endangers economic credibility.

  • She compares the move to those in countries where ousting statisticians led to loss of trust and economic turmoil.

    "[Her] dismissal marks a, quote, dangerous step for the economy. MacIntarfer was dismissed in August after Trump complained about massive downward revisions to the number of jobs created this spring and accused her of manipulating the data to make him look bad."
    —Caitlin McCabe (03:26)

• Federal Reserve Drama:

  • President Trump’s appointee Stephen Myron was sworn in as Fed governor with unusual haste.

  • Democrats in the Senate introduced legislation to bar officials from holding concurrent White House and Fed roles, expressing concern over the Fed’s independence.

  • Myron remains Chair of the Council of Economic Advisers, theoretically setting up a conflict of interest.

    "Senate Democrats are worried that the Federal Reserve's independence when it sets interest rates could be eroded if officials can hold roles both at the White House and at the Fed."
    —Unnamed Senate Reporter (04:41)

• Interest Rates and Mortgages:

  • Despite expectations for a Fed rate cut, mortgage rates are unlikely to fall quickly.

  • Most experts predict rates may stay above 6% into the next year.

    "Those who've been predicting a big drop in rates have been wrong over and over again over the last few years."
    —Veronica Dagger, Personal Finance Reporter (05:41)

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3. President Trump’s Second State Visit to the UK

[07:02–10:39]

• Royal Treatment for Trump:

  • Trump becomes the first U.S. president to enjoy a second state visit, including a private meeting with King Charles at Windsor.

  • British government uses “royal pizzazz” (e.g., parades, carriages, and flypasts) to woo Trump and advance UK trade and foreign policy interests.

    "This is really Britain laying on the royal pizzazz thick to try and win over Trump and butter him up."
    —Max Colchester, UK Correspondent (00:29, 07:37)

• Background and Strategy:

  • The invitation was presented with dramatic flair by the British PM, securing Trump’s favor.

  • The timing aligns with ongoing and future trade negotiations (notably steel tariffs) and efforts to secure continued U.S. support for European security, especially regarding Russia and Ukraine.

    "The UK government hopes that it can further negotiate down those tariffs, especially in areas such as steel. And there's also a big foreign policy dimension here."
    —Max Colchester (08:53)

• Potential Flashpoints:

  • Uncertainties remain as to whether Trump will keep demanding more once the UK/EU have made concessions.

  • Rising tensions on free speech issues, with U.S. conservatives pressuring the UK to loosen online expression policies.

  • This phase could test the limits of UK willingness to accommodate U.S. political priorities.

    "Once all that's been banked, does Trump come back and ask for more? And if so, does the UK and the Europeans continue to acquiesce, or will there be a point where they say no more?"
    —Max Colchester (09:34)

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4. Ben and Jerry’s Co-founder Exits Over Social Justice Stance

[10:50–11:59]

• Leadership & Principles:

  • Jerry Greenfield leaves Ben and Jerry’s after nearly five decades, citing that the company is being forced out of social justice advocacy.

  • The split comes ahead of Unilever’s plan to spin off its ice cream business, and after repeated clashes over issues like the Israel-Palestinian conflict.

    "Ben and Jerry's has been silenced, sidelined for fear of upsetting those in power ... [the brand] was no longer allowed to stand behind social justice issues that were core to its business."
    —Jerry Greenfield, quoted by Caitlin McCabe (10:50)

• Unilever Responds:

  • Unilever thanks Greenfield and expresses public commitment to the brand’s mission, but the episode exemplifies ongoing tensions over corporate activism.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "The reason why it's so special ... its algorithm. It's the secret sauce that makes it so successful." (Jonathan Chang, 02:34)
• "This is really Britain laying on the royal pizzazz thick to try and win over Trump and butter him up." (Max Colchester, 00:29 and 07:37)
• "Ben and Jerry's has been silenced, sidelined for fear of upsetting those in power." (Jerry Greenfield, paraphrased at 10:50)
• "Once all that's been banked, does Trump come back and ask for more?" (Max Colchester, 09:34)
• "Those who've been predicting a big drop in rates have been wrong over and over again over the last few years." (Veronica Dagger, 05:41)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• TikTok deal structure and algorithm negotiations: 01:18–03:26
• Federal Reserve independence and rate outlook: 04:41–06:05
• President Trump's UK visit, trade and foreign policy: 07:02–10:39
• Ben and Jerry’s co-founder exit over activism: 10:50–11:59

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Summary

This WSJ What’s News episode dissects a historic TikTok ownership deal nearing closure, weighing its technical and geopolitical dimensions. It also examines the political calculations behind Trump’s rare UK state visit and the broader realignments in transatlantic relations and trade, while touching on ongoing controversies over data integrity in government and corporate activism. The episode is a concise but thorough briefing on several headline issues shaping global business and politics today.

Transcript

[Morningstar Announcer]

Data is everywhere, but is it ready for consumption? Morningstar developed the language of global investment data so you have the right ingredients to help you shine. Morningstar where data speaks.

[Caitlin McCabe]

A group of powerful American investors closes in on a TikTok deal with China. Plus, President Trump meets King Charles in a historic second state visit.

[Max Colchester]

This is really Britain laying on the royal pizzazz thick to try and win over Trump and butter him up.

[Caitlin McCabe]

And buckle up market watchers. It's finally Fed day. It's Wednesday, September 17th. I'm Caitlin McCabe for the Wall Street Journal and here's the AM edition of what's news, the top headlines and business stories moving your world today. U.S. investors and President Trump are closing in on a TikTok deal with China in what could end a years long saga over the social media platform's US operations. According to people familiar with the matter, TikTok's US business would be controlled by an investor consortium that includes Oracle, Silverlake and Andreessen Horowitz under a framework the US And China are finalizing. As talks shift into high gear, our China bureau chief Jonathan Chang explains what the potential deal might look like.

[Jonathan Chang]

So first of all, the main thing to say at this point is that nothing is set in stone yet. What would happen is that these American companies would buy a collective stake of about 80% and leave the remainder a little bit under 20% for Chinese shareholders to own. That would allow the app in the US TikTok USA to remain primarily majority owned by American investors. There's talk that the composition of the board of directors would be dominated by American representatives and one of the members would potentially be designated by the US Government to ensure that the national security element of this is under control. There's concern that with the data that's being collected through the app, on what young people are talking about, where they are, their viewing habits, that all of this stuff is of great value to whichever government is able to access this information.

[Caitlin McCabe]

Jonathan adds that although the full details are yet to be sketched out, there's an understanding that users in the US Would move to a new app. Crucially, this means engineers would be recreating TikTok's lucrative algorithm for the American app, a key concession from China.

[Jonathan Chang]

Part of the concern on Beijing's side here is that TikTok, the reason why it's so special, the reason why it has such a large following, is its algorithm. It's the secret sauce that makes it so successful. It is what effectively makes the app so addictive and Beijing had treated this intellectual property this algorithm as a national security concern of its own. It didn't want to have it expropriated by America. And so that was one of the real obstacles to a deal here. And it looks like as part of the horse trading that's involved with all of this trade and tariffs and other sort of restrictions, that China may be willing to have this algorithm stay with the Chinese parent company ByteDance, but have it be licensed to TikTok USA.

[Caitlin McCabe]

It's worth noting that both China and the US still need to agree to these terms, which in turn could change the outline of this prospective deal. Former Bureau of Labor statistics commissioner Erica McIntarfer made her first public comments yesterday since President Trump fired her last month, and she didn't mince words, saying her dismissal marks a, quote, dangerous step for the economy. McIntar said countries like Argentina, Greece and Turkey have all ousted statisticians over disappointing numbers while which in turn eroded trust in economic data, leading to worsening economic crises, higher inflation and higher borrowing costs. MacIntarfer was dismissed in August after Trump complained about massive downward revisions to the number of jobs created this spring and accused her of manipulating the data to make him look bad. Economists have refuted those claims and at long last, it's Fed Day, with an interest rate decision coming from the Central bank at 2pm Eastern. President Trump's appointee to join the board, Stephen Myron, will be among the governors voting on rates after being rapidly sworn into the role. Yet yesterday, Journal reporter Joe Wallace says Myron's quick path to Fed governor has ruffled feathers in Washington, with Democrats introducing a bill in the Senate yesterday targeting Myron's dual role at the Fed and the White House.

[Unnamed Senate Democrat Reporter]

Senate Democrats are worried that the Federal Reserve's independence when it sets interest rates could be eroded if officials can hold roles both at the White House and at the Fed. They've introduced a bill to ban officials from doing just that. The backdrop, of course, is Stephen Myran's new position as Fed governor. He'll vote on interest rates today for the first time. And although he has taken a leave of absence from his role as chair of the Council of Economic Advisers at the White House, he hasn't resigned. And although his role at the Fed is due to expire in January, he could stay on indefinitely if President Trump doesn't nominate a successor.

[Caitlin McCabe]

Investors are widely expecting the Fed to cut rates later today. But if you're hoping that would lead to better mortgage rates, think again. Last week, the average 30 year fixed mortgage rate fell to 6.35%. But even if we get a quarter point cut to interest rates today, personal finance reporter Veronica Dagger says mortgage rates won't necessarily follow suit.

[Veronica Dagger]

Many economists expect mortgage rates to gradually drop through the end of the year and into early next, but largely stay above 6%. A few in the industry say rates could dip into the high fives by late 2026. But those who've been predicting a big drop in rates have been wrong over and over again over the last few years.

[Caitlin McCabe]

And check out WSJ.com later for all of our Fed coverage and not least chair Powell's presser shortly after 2:00pm Eastern. Coming up, we look at President Trump's unprecedented second state visit to the UK and why one of Ben and Jerry's co founders is quitting the company after nearly 50 years. Those stories after the break.

[Morningstar Announcer]

What's driving the markets this week? What's on investors minds as they look ahead? Find out on the Markets podcast from Goldman Sachs, a breakdown of market moves and macro signals in 10 minutes or less. The Markets podcast from Goldman Sachs. Listen now.

[Caitlin McCabe]

President Trump is in the UK this morning and set to meet King Charles in Windsor Castle as part of a second state visit. The visit will be entirely private and out of sight of the public. And any protests overnight. Police arrested four people after images of Trump and late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein were projected onto Windsor Castle. And the Stop Trump coalition is also expected to hold major protests in London and Windsor today. Today. Max Colchester is our UK Correspondent. Max, it's actually the first time in UK History that a US Leader has been granted the honor to visit twice. Can you walk us through what we're expecting?

[Max Colchester]

Well, we're expecting a lot of pomp and a lot of circumstance. There's going to be horse drawn carriages containing the president and the first lady. There's going to be around a thousand soldiers on parade. There's going to be flypasts. And this is really Britain laying on the royal pizzazz thick to try and win over Trump and butter him up so that he is more amenable to Britain's trade demands and foreign policy demands.

[Caitlin McCabe]

Yeah, lots of royal pizzazz indeed. Let's back up for a second. How did this visit come about?

[Max Colchester]

So this all came about after Trump was re elected. The British government quickly realized that the way to his heart was through the royal family, whom he deeply admires. And so what we saw last February was the British prime minister arrive in the Oval Office and do a fairly unusual stunt, which is normally these invitations are given privately, but in this instance, Starmer presented with a flourish a letter from His Majesty King Charles III inviting Trump to this historic second visit, which seemed to please the President greatly. And so here we are.

[Caitlin McCabe]

This visit also comes at quite the strategic time for Britain. The UK has already secured an early tariff deal, but there are other trade discussions, including around products like steel, that are still underway, right?

[Max Colchester]

Absolutely. There's still a lot to play for. Britain has managed to secure a favorable tariff deal compared to many countries around the world, but it is still paying tariffs. And so the UK government hopes that it can further negotiate down those tariffs, especially in areas such as steel. And there's also a big foreign policy dimension here. The UK has been instrumental in trying to keep Trump on side in getting the US to contribute to Europe's security, in particular in applying pressure on Russia over Ukraine. So that is also a very big thing they're going to be discussing. So although the UK is getting favorable treatment from Trump, they really do feel there is more that they can gain from this relationship.

[Caitlin McCabe]

What are the potential flashpoints that you're watching for from this visit?

[Max Colchester]

Well, the big question is really that Starmer and Europe more generally have given Trump everything he wants. They are spending more on defense, they've granted him trade deals and they have kowtowed before him. Now the question is, what happens next? And particularly in the uk, they've given him this extra glitz of a royal visit. Once all that's been banked, does Trump come back and ask for more? And if so, does the UK and the Europeans continue to acquiesce, or will there be a point where they say no more? There's also a big ongoing debate in the UK about free speech, and several people in the MAGA sphere have come out and criticised the UK for not doing more to allow people to express their views online or in person. So we could see potentially pressure from the US administration for the UK government to change its position on that. But again, these are issues that now become very difficult to solve. It'd be very hard for the British Prime Minister to go and change the country's approach, approach to free speech, because of what a foreign government is pressuring him on. So we're now entering potentially a much more difficult phase here in the relationship if Trump does decide to pressure for more things.

[Caitlin McCabe]

Max Colchester covers the UK for the Wall Street Journal. Max, thanks so much for being here.

[Max Colchester]

Many thanks.

[Caitlin McCabe]

And finally, Ben and Jerry's co founder Jerry Greenfield is stepping away from the company after 47 years ahead of Unilever's planned spinoff. Of its ice cream business as a separate entity. The ice cream brand and its parent company have clashed for years over the brand's social activism and especially its stance on the Israel Palestinian conflict. Posting on social media, Greenfield said, quote, ben and Jerry's has been silenced, sidelined for fear of upsetting those in power, end quote, adding that he decided to leave because the ice cream brand was no longer allowed to stand behind social justice issues that were core to its business. A spokesman for Unilever's ice cream business said in a statement that they were grateful to Greenfield and dedicated to the company's mission of product, economic and social commitments. And that's it for what's news for this Wednesday morning. Today's show is produced by Kate Bullivant and Rema McKenna. Our supervising producers were Daniel Bach and Sandra Kilhoff. And I'm Caitlin McCabe for the Wall Street Journal. We'll be back tonight with a new show. Until then, thanks for listening. Foreign.

[Sarah Devereaux]

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[Veronica Dagger]

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[Sarah Devereaux]

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