Democratic States Band Together to Counter RFK Jr.

Summary

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WSJ What’s News – "Democratic States Band Together to Counter RFK Jr."

Date: October 15, 2025

Host: Caitlin McCabe | Podcast: The Wall Street Journal

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Brief Overview

This episode dives into the heightened defense posture within NATO amid Russian aerial threats, power shifts in Gaza under the Hamas-Israel ceasefire, economic pressure points in renewed U.S.-China trade tensions, and, centrally, the formation of a coalition by Democratic "blue" states to counteract federal public health policies under President Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s administration. The states' new alliance is a direct reaction to perceived federal funding cuts and policy changes threatening public health response capacities.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. NATO's Defensive Stance and Aerial Threats from Russia

• NATO is re-examining its rules of engagement, considering making it easier to shoot down Russian aircraft after recent airspace violations.
• Lithuanian Defense Minister Dovile Lithuania (01:23):

  “Has changed legislation to ensure that there is no need for political permission for each time that an object needs to be neutralized... Nobody can have time in the sky for political negotiations.”

• Dutch Minister Ruben Brecklemans (02:06):

  “Communicating with Russia means that you can never expect that they will tell the truth. They will just tell what they want to say... So that’s the reality.”

• Strong NATO support for providing Ukraine with long-range Tomahawk missiles to strike deeper into Russian territory.
  (02:33) Brecklemans:

  “We always said as the Netherlands that we are supporting deep strike operations by Ukraine, that there is no limit or no boundary to this... If the United States decides to provide Tomahawk missiles, we will definitely support that.”

2. Power Struggles in Gaza Amid Ceasefire

• Hamas uses the Israeli pullback as an opportunity to crack down on rival armed groups and reassert control.
• Benoit Foukan, WSJ Security Correspondent (03:31):

  “The Israeli forces are pulled back from only part of the enclave, and that’s where Hamas is reestablishing power. They set out a police force that was more focused on price gouging and looting... initially was actually sort of unarmed because they didn’t want to be targeted by the Israelis.”

• Hamas' refusal to disarm complicates Israel’s objectives.
  (04:30) Foukan:

  “They see [rival armed groups] as an additional reason why they would need to keep weapons officially for law and order, but also obviously to protect themselves... So it’s clearly an additional reason why Hamas is struggling to come to that particular point, which is the most fundamental one for Israel, which is disarming."

3. U.S.-China Trade Tensions and Market Volatility

• Beijing is exploiting President Trump’s sensitivity to market volatility as a pressure point in ongoing trade disputes.
• Recent sanctions and rare earth restrictions by China trigger U.S. market turmoil.
• U.S. economic weaknesses—slowing hiring, contracting manufacturing, rising prices—reduce resilience to trade shocks.

4. Blue States’ Shadow Public Health Alliance Against RFK Jr. Policies

• 15 Democratic-governed states (e.g., NY, CA, NC) are forming a coalition to resist what they see as hazardous policy shifts and funding cuts from the Kennedy administration, especially following changes in vaccine policy and CDC funding.
• Betsy McKay, WSJ (07:48):

  “So they’re joining forces to help one another prepare for pandemics, track infectious diseases, write public health guidelines that the federal government normally writes, and share expertise on everything from preventive care to outbreaks. States that are well resourced, like New York, said they will share information on health threats... with less resourced states.”

• These states together represent about a third of the U.S. population (08:25).
• Triggered by recent events, e.g., 600 CDC jobs were eliminated due to a federal shutdown, impacting the state ability to respond to outbreaks.
• Betsy McKay (08:38):

  “So New York Governor Kathy Hochul said that with the assaults on science and medicine from Washington, governors have no choice but to step up and lead to protect their citizens.”

• Example: Maine's CDC was recently unable to send teams to assist outbreak response due to the shutdown.

5. Federal Rebuttal

• Health and Human Services spokesperson accuses Democratic states of undermining trust in public health and reaffirms federal commitment to “policy on vaccines based on rigorous evidence and not the ‘failed politics of the pandemic.’” (09:26)

6. Other News Highlights

• Medicare Enrollment: Seniors face big changes in 2026, including possible higher costs and loss of favored doctors. Explainer available on WSJ.com (09:26)
• London Prepares for Robo-Taxis: Waymo and Uber (partnering with Wave) are set to debut autonomous taxis.
  Stephen Wilmot, Autos Reporter (10:47):

  “The UK government, led by Keir Starmer, is very keen to reinvigorate growth... and they’re looking to welcome anything that looks like artificial intelligence, high tech-led investment.”

• Cabbie union head remains skeptical of robo-taxis’ viability until safety drivers are removed (11:39).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On NATO response rules:
  Dovile Lithuania (01:23):

  “Nobody can have time in the sky for political negotiations.”

• On Russian communication:
  Ruben Brecklemans (02:06):

  “They will just tell what they want to say... So that’s the reality.”

• On blue states' public health push:
  Betsy McKay (07:48):

  “So they’re joining forces to help one another prepare for pandemics, track infectious diseases, write public health guidelines that the federal government normally writes.”

• On rationale for forming the alliance:
  Gov. Kathy Hochul via Betsy McKay (08:38):

  “With the assaults on science and medicine from Washington, governors have no choice but to step up and lead to protect their citizens.”

• On robo-taxi skepticism:
  Stephen Wilmot (11:39):

  “Until they take the safety drivers out, we don’t actually know what they’ll do. And until then, they’re just expensive taxis.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction & Headlines – 00:18-00:53
• NATO/Russia/Airspace – 01:23-02:52
• Ukraine Tomahawk Missiles – 02:20-02:52
• Gaza/Hamas Crackdown – 03:31-04:30
• Hamas Disarmament Issue – 04:21-05:05
• US-China Trade Tensions – 05:05-06:15
• Democratic States' Health Alliance – 06:48-09:26
• Medicare 2026 Enrollment Changes – 09:26-10:00
• London Robo-Taxi Rollout – 10:47-11:52

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Conclusion

This episode highlights rising geopolitical tensions (NATO-Russia, Middle East), domestic policy fractures as Democratic states push back against a federal rollback of public health resources, and high-tech advances overseas. The creation of a blue state public health consortium anchor the episode as a symbol of state-level resistance in a polarized federal environment.

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Transcript

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[Caitlin McCabe]

Pete Hegseth joins NATO's defense ministers to discuss bolder action to combat aerial threats from Russia. Plus, as Israeli forces pull back in Gaza, Hamas begins a violent crash in a show of authority and blue states band together to counter rfk.

[Betsy McKay]

Junior governors have formed this alliance because they're worried that federal funding cuts and policy changes, like changes to the vaccine policy. They're worried that they are putting citizens at risk and forcing the governors to find alternatives.

[Caitlin McCabe]

It's Wednesday, October 15th. I'm Caitlin McCabe for the Wall Street Journal and here is the AM edition of what's News, the top headlines and business stories moving YOUR world. NATO is discussing new rules that could make it easier to shoot down Russian fighter jets. Changing NATO's rules of engagement is one of several moves to improve its defenses following recent incursions into the bloc's airspace. Here's the Lithuanian Defense Minister Dovile Lithuania.

[Lithuanian Defense Minister Dovile Lithuania]

Has changed legislation to ensure that there is no need for political permission for each time that an object needs to be neutralized. I'm hoping that all other countries will ensure that exceptions that prevent immediate reaction by our air force are removed as fast as possible. Nobody can have time in the sky for political negotiations.

[Caitlin McCabe]

While Russia has denied any involvement in drone and jet incursions over Poland, Denmark and Germany in recent weeks, ministers arriving at the meeting this morning, including Estonia's Hanoi, did not mince their words about the security threat facing NATO members.

[Dutch Minister Ruben Brecklemans]

Communicating with Russia means that you can never expect that they will tell the truth. They will just tell what they want to say. It was the same also with mix. So they said that they were not in our airspace. So they were. So that's the reality.

[Caitlin McCabe]

More support for Ukraine is also on the docket with Dutch Minister Ruben Brecklemans among allies backing the provision of US Longer range Tomahawk missiles that can strike deep into Russian territory.

[Dutch Minister Ruben Brecklemans]

We always said as the Netherlands that we are supporting deep strike operations by Ukraine, that there is no limit or no boundary to this in terms of kilometers. Also no limit when it comes to the type of missiles. It's up to the US to decide. But if the United States decides to provide Tomahawk missiles, we will definitely support that.

[Caitlin McCabe]

U.S. secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth is set to press more allies to pay for US weapons for Ukraine. So far, deals worth just over $2 billion have been agreed. And Washington and Kyiv want countries such as Brit, Britain, France, Spain and Italy to open their wallets too. Turning now to the situation in Gaza, where a pause in the war between Hamas and Israel under the U. S. Brokered ceasefire has resulted in a violent crackdown between Hamas and other armed Palestinian groups in the enclave. Journal security correspondent Benoit Foukan says the group is trying to assert authority as the remaining governing power in Gaza.

[Benoit Foukan]

The Israeli forces are pulled back from only part of the enclave, and that's where Hamas is reestablishing power. And they have been ready, they've been preparing for months to retake control. One thing they did is they set out a police force that was more focused on price gouging and looting and initially was actually sort of unarmed because they didn't want to be targeted by the Israelis. So Hamas officials told me that they really were working on this strategy and sort of setting new people on the ground. We also have a report from the Gaza Interior Ministry that I obtained that basically shows that they identify a dozen subgroups in Rafah under Israeli control, and they are so far out of reach unless Hamas launched an operation on effectively Israeli controlled territory. And so far, the Israelis and Hamas have avoided to have a direct confrontation over these groups.

[Caitlin McCabe]

And Benoit says the crackdown could complicate Israel's hope for Hamas to disarm, something the militant group did not agree to under the ceasefire deal.

[Benoit Foukan]

It's privately something Hamas has said that they think that the presence of armed groups that are rival to their power, or in their case, that they see as a source of disorder and criminality. They see it as an additional reason why they would need to keep weapons officially in their case for law and order, but also obviously to protect themselves against attacks from these groups. So it's clearly an additional reason why Hamas is struggling to come to that particular point, which is the most fundamental one for Israel, which is disarming.

[Caitlin McCabe]

As the Trump administration tries to publicly calm renewed trade tensions with China, Beijing may have found America's Achilles heel. President Trump's fixation on the stock market. According to people close to Beijing's decision making, President Xi Jinping is betting that the US Economy can't absorb a prolonged trade standoff with the world's second largest economy. The market's sharp negative reaction on Friday to China's new rare earth restrictions was a reminder of the economic vulnerability Beijing could be trying to exploit in a bid to force Trump to negotiate. Many economists say the US Isn't positioned to absorb another trade fight with China, with hiring slowing manufacturing contracting and prices continuing to rise. Just yesterday, China sanctioned the U.S. units of a South Korean shipping company, resulting in another rollercoaster day for markets. Coming up, US States are joining forces to help one another prepare for pandemics and buy vaccines in bulk amid concerns around the federal health department's preparedness. That story and more after the break.

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[Caitlin McCabe]

It's been roughly five weeks since conservative activist Charlie Kirk was shot dead while speaking on a college campus in Utah, and tensions over his killing are still running high. Yesterday, the State Department said it revoked the visas of at least six people over their comments on his death, including nationals of countries including Argentina, South Africa and Mexico. The department said on social media that the U.S. has, quote, no obligation to host foreigners who wish death on Americans, end quote. It didn't say if the people were currently in America and didn't specify what kind of visas they held or when they were revoked. And we're exclusively reporting that governors from 15 mainly blue states, including New York, California and North Carolina, are forming a shadow public health alliance in a sign of growing resistance to Robert F. Kennedy Jr. S agenda. The Journal's Betsy McKay says the initiative aims to help detect and respond to disease threats of all kinds.

[Betsy McKay]

So they're joining forces to help one another prepare for pandemics, track infectious diseases, write public health guidelines that the federal government normally writes, and share expertise on everything from preventive care to outbreaks. So these governors said they would share public health intelligence and data with each other, disease fighting strategies and states that are well resourced, like New York, said they will share information on health threats that they identify in their own laboratories with each other with less resourced states.

[Caitlin McCabe]

Betsy says the states, which represent about a third of the U.S. population, have joined forces out of concern that the Trump administration's federal funding cuts and policy changes are putting their citizens at risk.

[Betsy McKay]

So New York Governor Kathy Hilkul said that with the assaults on science and medicine from Washington, governors have no choice but to step up and lead to protect their citizens. Just this past weekend, 600 jobs were eliminated at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention as part of the federal shutdown. So most federal funding to the CDC goes to state and local health departments and there have been cuts. The shutdown is just exacerbating that. So officials in the state of Maine asked the CDC in September for help with a response to an outbreak of HIV and hepatitis C and the CDC approved the request. But the state of Maine learned on Friday that the CDC can't send teams right now because of a shutdown.

[Caitlin McCabe]

A Health and Human Services spokesman accused Democrat run states of eroding Americans trust in public health agencies and said the HHS would ensure policy on vaccines is set based on rigorous evidence and not the quote, failed politics of the pandemic. End quote. And in other healthcare news, enrollment for 2026 Medicare coverage starts today. And for the second year in a row, big changes are coming to the program, which means seniors could end up with surprises like higher drug costs or the loss of a favorite doctor. Thankfully, our colleagues on the health team have put together an explainer walking you through all the potential pitfalls of this year's Medicare enrollment. You can check it out now on WSJ.com, and we'll leave a link in our show notes. And finally, London, England is very much known as the land of the black cabs. Soon, however, they'll be getting some new competition. Robo taxis. Waymo says it will launch a fully autonomous ride hailing service in the UK next year, marking the Alphabet owned company's European debut. And Uber is also planning to roll out a London robo taxi service after striking a partnership with local autonomous driving startup Wave. Journal Autos reporter Stephen Wilmot says these sorts of ventures are finding fertile ground in the uk.

[Stephen Wilmot]

The UK Government rolled out a red carpet for robo taxis in June. It announced a plan to allow pilot programs starting in the spring of 2026. And it has a full legal framework for robo taxis coming out in the second half of 2027. But I think that that plan outs in June was clearly a way to say don't wait until 2027, we want you to start testing earlier. The UK government led by Keir Starmer is very keen to reinvigorate growth. They've made a big deal of this and they're looking to welcome anything that looks like artificial intelligence, high tech led investment. So yeah, it's part of the UK Government's growth agenda.

[Caitlin McCabe]

Uber's partner Wave is already testing its self driving technology in London with safety drivers behind the wheel of adapted cars. I asked Stephen how worried black cabs were about competition from Robo Taxis.

[Stephen Wilmot]

I spoke to the head of their union and his response was, well, I don't think they'll work, which is not unreasonable. Until they take the safety drivers out, we don't actually know what they'll do. And until then, they're just expensive taxis.

[Caitlin McCabe]

And that's it for what's news for this Wednesday morning. Today's show is produced by Daniel Bach and Kate Bullivant. Our supervising producers were Christina Rocca and Sandra Kilhoff. And I'm Caitlin McCabe for the Wall Street Journal. We'll be back tonight with a new show. Until then, thanks for listening.

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