Luke Vargas (3:34)

I mean, situate for us what we believe the vibe to be in Silicon Valley responding to all this.

Sam Schechner (3:39)

I mean, I think they take it super seriously. Europe represents, for these big companies upwards of a quarter of their revenue. I mean, it's no joke. It would be a bloodbath if they were cut off somehow from Europe. And this has been the case for quite some time. So they take it very seriously and that's why they invest so heavily in Europe. So much infrastructure, so much staff. Let's open an AI lab in Paris. Google's AI efforts are headquartered out of London. So in that sense the dependency does go both ways.

Luke Vargas (4:09)

SAM this tech decoupling is being led by governments like France to develop sovereign tech systems. But surely this also requires a strong private tech sector if there's any hope of rivaling the U.S. the government is

Sam Schechner (4:21)

not going to build a tech ecosystem, whether they're buying a video conferencing thing for government workers or not. It's, we're talking about technologies that are being built in the private sector. And so the whole, that's the whole game, right? Can Europe build and sustain a vibrant tech ecosystem on its own? And for technologies that already exist, like cloud services, that's something that's been won by the US but is still important for Europe to catch up in. They don't need new technologies, they just need heavy investment to try to build something that could match the cost of servers run by big American companies for the next tech revolution. There are very vibrant tech ecosystems here and there's a lot of startups. And when it comes to AI, I mean, one of the most recognized labs is actually a French lab. Mistral and Chinese labs have shown you don't necessarily need all the resources. There's definitely an open field that AI provides that may give Europe an ability to leapfrog into this tech race. And so I certainly wouldn't count Europe out of the tech race entirely.

Luke Vargas (5:26)

I've been speaking to Wall Street Journal tech reporter Sam Schechner. We've got to take a short break, but when we come back, we'll take a closer look at what digital sovereignty looks like for the man leading the charge in France. Stay with us.

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Sam Schechner (6:02)

Now.

Luke Vargas (6:16)

Let's ditch the jargon and answer the question simply what does sovereign tech really look like? Well, who better to ask than David Amiel, France's Minister for State Reform, who is on the line with us from Paris. David, David, define in your words how France and you see tech sovereignty. What does that mean?

David Amiel (6:35)

Well, France has been pushing for strategic autonomy at the European level for a long time and in the world we live in, there is no strategic autonomy without tech sovereignty. It means three things. First, it means avoiding critical dependencies and we need to strengthen our resilience in an unstable world on some specific parts of the tech sector. Second, we must ensure compliance with our values in order to preserve our democratic framework, in order to ensure consumer protection. The digital space is not the Wild west as President Emmanuel Le Macron often says. We must protect the health of our children. We must keep on fighting against racism, hate speeches, anti Semitism in social network and that is in line with the European regulation. And third, we must support European innovation, particularly for instance in cloud computing, in artificial intelligence, in data management, because this would be the key pillars of competitiveness in the future, just in terms of

Luke Vargas (7:49)

critical dependency and steps to reduce it. Tell me about the push to to shift government workers away from US video conferencing platforms and how that fits into the wider strategy.

David Amiel (8:00)

So we need to rely on solutions we can master so we avoid service interruptions. So in a way to ensure our resilience, we put forward a solution that was designed both by research and development made by the French state, but also by French private companies. That's called Visio and it incorporates the state of the art video conferencing. And that's very important because if you don't provide public agents with state of the art solutions, there will be no adoption and history is full of state led projects that led to nowhere because of that. So it's very important for us to really rely on the strengths and innovation of the private sector. So our solution will be hosted by Outscale. It comes From DESO System, there will be AI powered meeting transcription using speaker separation technologies that is provided by Pianote, a French startup. And that will also do a lot to facilitate the daily workings of French public agents.

Luke Vargas (9:14)

So what's next here? Is the French government going to back more tools and are you going to try and convince the private sector to adopt this software?

David Amiel (9:22)

Well, you know, when you don't master a solution, you cannot ensure that it will be resilient in any state of the world, because there can be many, many crises in the years to come. We have witnessed some in the recent years. Think of COVID think of the war in Ukraine and so on. More specifically, it's really an issue of resilience on some things that are really related to the core functioning of the state.

Luke Vargas (9:55)

I see that you wrote last year that in responding to President Trump's economic policies, confrontation in the digital field may be inevitable. You also said that Europe was becoming less frightened of wielding power when it comes to taking its technological future into its hands. But how much less frightened, specifically, what if the state steps you're taking get the attention of the White House and provoke US anger?

David Amiel (10:21)

You know, the sovereignty agenda, the strategic autonomy that we've been pushing is not new. France has been calling for a long time for more strategic autonomy of Europe. It has really been at the heart of what President Macron has been pushing for since his first election in 2017. And it was true also under other American administrations. I believe that in an unstable world, it's very important that Europe asserts itself as a geopolitical power. And that is, I believe, good for everyone, and it's good for the US but it's good for the world economy as well, because the more European is an engine for world growth, the more I think it will benefit everybody.

Luke Vargas (11:16)

I mean, this is still early days, but I'm curious what you've learned about that effort so far, what it's going to take for France if it wants to rival US Tech competition and cultivate its domestic industry.

David Amiel (11:27)

Well, I believe also that we have to learn what works behind Europe and especially in the U.S. when you look at what the U.S. has been really good at, there is no doubt that innovation is at the core of it. And when you look at the way the the US has engineered a public and private partnership, the key role that has been played in the US by major universities and research centers, that's also something that Europe, at the European level, because it's a relevant scale to act, I believe, on this innovation agenda, has

Luke Vargas (12:10)

to learn from The US President has also been very forceful in basically going out there and soliciting orders, for example, for Boeing planes as a part of trade deals around the world. Are we learning that that's kind of something that's necessary here? You've got to basically help your companies compete at the head of state level?

David Amiel (12:28)

No, as you know, we don't believe in protectionism. I think that innovation also flourishes on trade, on exchange of ideas and so on. And that is really something that at the heart also of the European economy to provide for this stable, open, predictive framework. And when you look at the comparative advantage of, of the European and of the French economy, I believe that's part of it.

Luke Vargas (13:05)

Finally, when you look across the French tech landscape, startups and slightly larger businesses that already exist, do you think already there is a company out there that will grow and become a global competitor to some of the big US Firms that we've talked about earlier, or is that missing the point?

David Amiel (13:23)

Definitely, I believe that European should aim at creating European champions in tech. France is now the most attractive country in Europe for foreign investment. So the next frontier is really scaling up through supporting innovation, easing access to capital, streamlining certain regulations and so on.

Luke Vargas (13:47)

David Amiens is France's Minister for State Reform. Minister, thank you so much for being with us on what's News.

David Amiel (13:53)

Thank you very much.

Luke Vargas (13:56)

And that's it for what's news for February 22nd. Today's show was produced by Daniel Bach and Hattie Moyer with supervising producers Sandra Kilhoff and Melanie Roy. I'm Luke Vargas and we'll be back tomorrow morning with a brand new show. Till then, thanks for listening.

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