The New Corporate Playbook for How to Do a Layoff

Summary

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WSJ What’s News – Episode Summary

Episode Title: The New Corporate Playbook for How to Do a Layoff
Date: November 17, 2025
Host: Alex Osola (The Wall Street Journal)

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Overview

This episode explores the rapidly evolving approach to corporate layoffs, focusing on how large companies—Amazon and Conde Nast among them—now notify employees of job losses, increasingly relying on digital methods over in-person communication. The Wall Street Journal’s Chip Cutter joins to discuss the reasons behind these stark new processes, their impact on workers, how companies are weighing brand risks versus efficiency, and the broader implications for workplace culture. Additional segments cover the surge in prop betting in sports and its downsides, international news updates (including developments in Gaza and UK immigration policy), and insight into the business behind internet sensation "Baby Shark."

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Main Theme:

How and Why Layoff Strategies Are Getting More Efficient—and Less Personal

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. New Layoff Methods: Texts, Emails, and Listen-Only Calls

• Timestamp: 00:50 – 03:35
• Companies are increasingly notifying employees about layoffs via text messages, emails, or impersonal digital meetings, reducing direct FaceTime.
• Chip Cutter explains the shift is driven by logistical pressures: “When you’re trying to let go in some cases thousands of workers … how do you do this all in a really short period of time?” (02:11)
• Cites the recent Amazon layoffs, where ~14,000 employees were notified via a text message instructing them to check their email for the real news.

2. Intentions vs. Worker Experience

• Timestamp: 02:09 – 02:53
• The goal is efficiency and the avoidance of emotional, public scenes in the office—but many view this as “heartless” and traumatic for employees.
• Quote: “It feels a little heartless. This feels tough on workers where you learn just in the middle of the night in some cases … that you no longer have a job.” — Chip Cutter (02:49)

3. Case Study: Conde Nast and Employee Pushback

• Timestamp: 02:53 – 03:35
• Teen Vogue employees protested their layoffs by confronting HR head Stan Duncan in person, leading to viral videos.
• Management’s response: Firing four protestors and suspending others, sparking further protests and a rally with New York Attorney General Letitia James promising legal action.
• The episode highlights unpredictability and risks of poorly-handled layoffs, with reputational and even legal consequences.

4. Brand & Business Risk: How Layoffs Reflect on Companies

• Timestamp: 04:08 – 04:42
• Layoff procedures, especially impersonal ones, can hurt public perception and employer brand.
• Social media blowback after Amazon’s cuts: “People on the internet just criticizing how they did this … it reflects on their brands, it reflects on their values.” — Chip Cutter (04:24)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the corporate rationale:
  • “HR people keep trying to make this more efficient … That’s why you’ve seen many go to this approach where you are told via text, you are told via email. Everybody learns their fate at once.” — Chip Cutter (02:12)
• On employee reaction and public scrutiny:
  • “One person on LinkedIn wrote, ‘Who thought that was okay?’” — Chip Cutter (04:26)
• On legal and brand impact:
  • Describing the aftermath at Conde Nast: “The firings … led to their own protest and a rally … that brought the New York Attorney General ... She said that she was going to take Conde Nast to court.” — Chip Cutter (03:36)
• On what other companies are learning:
  • “A lot of HR people who are doing these layoffs have watched what has happened at Conde Nast and said, 'Ooh, we do not want that to happen to us.'” — Chip Cutter (03:33)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:50: Introduction to new layoff methods (Amazon, Southwest Airlines)
• 02:09: Chip Cutter on efficiency and rationale for mass digital notification
• 02:53: Deep dive into Conde Nast incident and consequences
• 04:08: Discussion of business & brand downside, public/social media reaction
• 04:42: Chip Cutter wraps up insights

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Additional Topics Covered (Briefly)

The Rise of Prop Betting and Integrity of Sports

• 07:23: Jared Diamond explains the rise in popularity of prop betting due to online platforms allowing continuous, granular wagers.
• 08:30: Sports leagues are now trying to limit certain prop bets to deter manipulation; “If people start doubting that what they’re watching is genuine competition, you essentially don’t have a business anymore.” (08:17)

International News Briefs

• 09:41: Gaza: Hamas regains popularity amid relative security during ceasefire.
• 10:22: UK Immigration: Stricter asylum, longer waits, asset confiscation.
• 11:14: Viral Content Economics: “Baby Shark” is a global phenomenon but isn’t as lucrative for its creators as one might expect.

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Summary for New Listeners

This episode offers a nuanced look at how and why companies are altering their layoff strategies—sparking debates about efficiency, empathy, and corporate values. With firsthand examples and media fallout, it’s an essential listen for understanding evolving workplace dynamics and the personal toll of so-called “efficient” layoffs. The broader news round-up further contextualizes how organizations, from governments to YouTube content creators, are adapting to public scrutiny and changing business realities.

Transcript

[Vanguard Narrator]

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[Alex Osola]

The acting head of FEMA has resigned in the latest high level departure at the federal agency. Plus why prop bets are so popular and why sports leagues are starting to crack down on them.

[Jared Diamond]

The people start doubting that what they're watching is genuine competition. You essentially don't have a business anymore.

[Alex Osola]

And does Amazon laying people off via text and email signal a new approach to job cuts? It's Monday, November 17th. I'm Alex Osola for the Wall street this is the PM edition of what's News, the top headlines and business stories that move the world today. Sinclair, one of the country's largest owners of local TV stations, says it has built a roughly 8% stake in local TV broadcaster E.W. scripps to help it buy the company. Sinclair says it's discussed a deal with Scripps, but there's no agreement yet. We're in a moment when employers are laying off thousands of workers and how they're doing it keeps evolving. During the pandemic, it was zoom calls. Then it was surprise calendar invites to HR meetings. Now many companies are trying to make layoffs more efficient and they tend to involve a lot less FaceTime. When Amazon started laying off some 14,000 employees last month, they received a text to check their emails, which then informed them they'd lost their job. Some Southwest Airlines employees learned they lost their jobs while at home via a scripted video call that was in listen only mode, not letting them respond. For more on how layoffs keep changing and why, I'm joined now by Chip Cutter, who covers workplace issues for the Journal. Chip. Why are companies shifting to doing layoffs this way?

[Chip Cutter]

Well, HR people keep trying to make this more efficient when you're trying to let go in some cases thousands of workers. How do you do this all in a really short period of time? And so that's why you've seen many go to this approach where you are told via text, you are told via email. Everybody learns their fate at once. And in many cases, companies want to minimize some of the in office emotions. They don't want people to be coming from conference rooms crying and having their colleagues embracing them. And it's easier to do that when you're at home, when everybody is told at once. But then a lot of people would argue this feels a little heartless. This feels tough on workers where you learn just in the middle of the night in some cases when you look at your phone that you no longer have a job.

[Alex Osola]

Let's talk about one recent example from Conde Nast. The company said it would move its Teen vogue publication under vogue.com and let some employees go. After that, a group of workers confronted an HR executive, Stan Duncan, outside his office to ask for an explanation. Video of the encounter from media publication the Wrap was pretty quickly all over the Internet.

[Chip Cutter]

We'd appreciate if you would go back.

[Jared Diamond]

To the workplace where you're Is there.

[Alex Osola]

A place that you would be able.

[Chip Cutter]

To speak to us? Not today.

[Alex Osola]

We have other things going on.

[Jared Diamond]

Do you think we're not worth speaking to?

[Alex Osola]

Sam, those are your words, not Conde Nast later fired four participants involved in the in office protest and suspended others. And this example just shows us layoffs can be unpredictable. There can be real pushback.

[Chip Cutter]

The firings of these workers after the in office protests then led to their own protest in a rally outside of Conde Nast headquarters in lower Manhattan last week that brought the New York Attorney General, Leticia James to the rally. She said that she was going to take Conde Nast to court. Now, Conde Nast has said that the terminations were lawful and based on clear violations of company policy. They'll say that they'll respond to the attorney general if she has concerns. But I think a lot of HR people who are doing these layoffs have watched what has happened at Conde Nast and said, ooh, we do not want that to happen to us.

[Alex Osola]

Yeah, layoffs in general can be really messy. But does this new approach companies are taking that tries to make these job reductions as efficient as possible come with any downsides for its business? Does it affect how others perceive the company?

[Chip Cutter]

It does. It gives people a sense for how this organization operates. After Amazon's layoffs, you saw people on the Internet just criticizing how they did this. I mean, One person on LinkedIn wrote who thought that was okay. And so you see people really scrutinizing the approach that companies take here. It reflects on their brands, it reflects on their values. It shows you how they operate.

[Alex Osola]

That was Wall Street Journal reporter Chip Cutter. Thanks, Chip. Thank you. Major U.S. stock indexes all fell about 1% to start the week as a sell off in tech stocks intensified trading lower were shares of Meta Platforms and Nvidia. The chip maker reports earnings later this week into updates from Washington. David Richardson, the acting head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, or fema, has has resigned after about seven months in the role. The Department of Homeland security says that FEMA's chief of staff will take over for him starting in December. There was no reason provided for Richardson's resignation. Richardson was a DHS official and didn't have a background in emergency management career officials at FEMA have criticized his ability to run the agency. President Trump has also called for getting rid of FEMA as his administration tries to overhaul how the government handles emergency management and disaster relief funding. And Federal Reserve Governor Lisa Cook's lawyer has provided the first detailed defense of her mortgage applications. He argues that apparent discrepancies in loan documents were either accurate at the time or a, quote, inadvertent notation that couldn't constitute fraud. Given other disclosures to her lenders, the Supreme Court has for now blocked President Trump's attempt to remove her from the Fed. And we'll hear arguments in January. Coming up, are the creators of your toddler's favorite song swimming in it? That's after the break.

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[Alex Osola]

Betting scandals have become a familiar part of pro sports these days, and they're increasingly driven by prop betting. That's a bet placed not on the outcome of a game but on a specific statistic within it. So the wave of players and coaches who have been accused of manipulating play has forced leagues to work with sportsbooks to try to reduce their risk. WSJ sports reporter Jared diamond joins me now to discuss what's driving the trend and what's being done about it. Jared, why has prop betting gotten so much more popular lately?

[Jared Diamond]

So for most of the history of gambling in this country, prop bets didn't really exist. People would bet on the outcome of games. Maybe you'd bet against the spread. These gambling companies started realizing, hey, if we only have people betting on the outcome of Games, they bet and then they don't bet again. But now because of online betting, we could keep people betting throughout the game again and again, every 30 seconds, every minute. Suddenly, markets started sprouting up saying, how many points will this person score? How many rebounds will this person grab? Hey, let's keep it going. What's going to happen on this drive, on this play, on this pitch? They could take bets on all of those things to where some people are literally betting every couple of minutes or more. That's just more money for the sportsbooks. More prop bet markets popped up and they became extremely popular with consumers who increasingly want to bet on sports.

[Alex Osola]

So mlb, along with the NBA and the NFL have been working with betting companies to reduce the number of prop bets. How effective has that been? And what else could the leagues be doing?

[Jared Diamond]

So we're just at the beginning of all of this, where league's finally going, hey, maybe we need to kind of do something about this. You know, sports gambling has only been legal in this country now for seven years, which sounds like a long time, but really isn't. So we've started seeing the NBA working with sportsbooks to have them stop offering prop bet market on certain kinds of players. Baseball now has worked with sportsbooks to stop offering individual pitch markets entirely. How fast a pitch will go, the location of a pitch, it's obviously a start, but whether it's enough remains to be seen. The reality is pro sports leagues like gambling, there's plenty of studies that show that people who gamble are more likely to be engaged in their sport. It drives interest. So on the one hand, they kind of want fans to be gambling because it brings people to their sports. But on the other hand, if people start doubting that what they're watching is genuine competition, you essentially don't have a business anymore. And this is that line that I think sports leagues are struggling to kind of walk.

[Alex Osola]

That was WSJ sports reporter Jared Dimon. Thank you, Jared.

[Jared Diamond]

Thank you.

[Alex Osola]

In international news, Hamas has grown more popular in Gaza since the ceasefire. A major reason security. As the ceasefire took hold last month and Israeli forces pulled back, Hamas fighters re emerged on the streets as police and internal security forces. That has reduced crime and looting and has allowed Hamas to rebuild its image. But pollsters and analysts say Palestinians now see the militant group as more pragmatic, which could pose a challenge to President Trump's plan to bring peace to the enclave by disarming the group. Speaking of President Trump's peace plan, the US Expects the UN Security Council to back Trump's plan after a flurry of behind the scenes diplomacy by top Trump officials and U.S. allies. The plan would create a legal mandate for an international stabilization force and lay the groundwork for a new transitional government in Gaza. The vote is planned for this evening. If it passes, it would be a diplomatic victory for Trump but still leaves many questions about the future of Gaza unanswered. And the UK Government is overhauling its immigration policy to crack down on people seeking asylum. It's changing laws to make it easier to expel migrants, quadrupling the wait to become permanent residents to 20 years, and could even confiscate assets like jewelry and cars of asylum seekers to offset the cost of processing their claims. The UK is the latest European nation to respond to voter unhappiness with illegal immigration. And finally, if you've been around a young child in the past decade, chances are you're all too familiar with this little tune. Sorry, that's stuck in your head now. Anyway, it's such an addictive song that kids, including unfortunately for Me, My Toddler can't stop listening to it. Baby shark dance is YouTube's most watched video ever since it was uploaded to the site in 2016, it's been played more than 4.7 million times a day on average. But for Pinkfong, the South Korean company behind the earworm, that mega virality hasn't made the company mega rich. Last year, it had $67 million in revenue. YouTube has strict rules around its made for kids videos, which make that content less profitable for creators than stuff that's not for kids. Tomorrow, Pinkfong will go public in South Korea, and its IPO is expected to generate nearly $50 million. The company plans to use those funds to create new content, hopefully some that my daughter and I can both enjoy. And that's what's news for this Monday afternoon. Also, heads up, we've got a special episode in your feed. On the third episode of our Economic Indicator series, we took a look at heavy truck sales and what they can tell us about how the US Economy is doing. That's in your feed now. Today's show is produced by Pierre Bienname and Zoe Kolkin, with supervising producer Tali Arbel. I'm Alex Osola for the Wall Street Journal. We'll be back with a new show tomorrow morning. Thanks for listening. Foreign. Break free from the AI frenzy and truly transform your marketing with Adobe. The path to ROI is clear and the opportunity is all around you. Let's turn AI's promise into your marketing reality. It starts with Adobe.