Alex Osola (2:56)

Speaking of housing, New York City Mayor Zoran Mamdani met President Trump in Washington today to discuss building more housing. The two political opposites have found common ground on the issue of affordability. Last year, the US Experienced something that hasn't happened in almost a century, net negative migration. More people moved out than moved in. The Brookings Institution, a think tank, puts the net loss at around 150,000 people. The Trump administration has said this shows the the effects of its immigration crackdown with 675,000 deportations. But there's also something else going on. America's own citizens are leaving in record numbers. A Wall Street Journal analysis of data from 15 countries showed that at least 180,000Americans left, too. Joe Parkinson, who leads the Journal's World Enterprise team, joins me now from London. Joe, I want to start with how we actually know that this is happening. Does the US Government measure the number of citizens who are moving elsewhere?

Joe Parkinson (3:56)

The government hasn't kept accurate data on that since around about the Eisenhower administration. What we needed to do was basically look at the other end of the telescope. So instead of looking to the US Government, go to every country, find the data, pull the data to try and create a picture of how many Americans were actually moving abroad. And as we went through that data, a historical pattern began to emerge.

Alex Osola (4:18)

When did this outflow of Americans start?

Joe Parkinson (4:21)

Really, this is not a new story entirely. What's changed to magnify the numbers in recent years really are big shifts in technology, in things like remote work, that you can now work for an American company but be based in Lisbon, in Bali, Mexico City. That wasn't really possible, you know, five years ago, let alone 20 years ago. The kind of Americans that are doing this has really changed. Once upon a time, it used to be very well credentialed people, perhaps on assignments for blue chip companies or retirees. Now it's people of all stripes, young families, students, single people, from speaking to individuals.

Alex Osola (4:59)

What are some of the sort of catalysts that were making people make this change?

Joe Parkinson (5:03)

I think affordability is a big one. There's also a sense of safety. One motif that kept coming up with young families was the idea of gun violence, which has become more and more of a problem. There was also the idea their work, life balance. They'd be able to get away from the perception in America that your time is very, very squeezed. And then there's the unavoidable issue of political volatility. You know, what is wrong to say, I think, is that this is just a very recent phenomena or a Trump phenomena that is a very partial and politicized kind of slant on this. That is definitely a push factor for some people, but it does not explain the totality of this phenomenon.

Alex Osola (5:42)

So where are people going and what impact is that having on their new places of residence?

Joe Parkinson (5:48)

You're seeing this in Portugal, Italy, places that have been popular for a long time like the U.K. canada, Mexico, Ireland. But it's also happening in places that you wouldn't perhaps know record numbers. We see in Vietnam, in the Philippines, in Bali, even in places like Albania. Countries are very, very interested in attracting Americans because they bring capital with them and they bring know how. And so European countries in particular have done a lot of work to create favourable visa regimes, favourable tax regime.

Alex Osola (6:20)

That was WSJ World enterprise chief Joe Parkinson. Thanks, Joe.

Joe Parkinson (6:24)

Thanks so much.

Alex Osola (6:30)

At a performing arts center today near the Clintons home in Chappaqua, New York, Hillary Clinton sat for a closed door videotaped deposition on Jeffrey Epstein for a Republican led House committee. She says she had no prior knowledge of Jeffrey Epstein's wrongdoing and that she had no information to share about any criminal activity by him or his associate Ghislaine Maxwell. She accused House Republicans of conducting a quote, fishing expedition. The House Oversight Committee's chair, Kentucky Republican James Comer, said his panel was pursuing a serious and bipartisan investigation.

Political Analyst (7:01)

No one's accusing at this moment the Clintons of any wrongdoing. They're going to have due process. But we have a lot of questions and the purpose of the whole investigation is to try to understand many things about Epstein.

Alex Osola (7:15)

Former President Bill Clinton's testimony is scheduled for tomorrow. It's the first time a former first lady and president are speaking to a congressional committee under subpoena. Meanwhile, Berge Brenda, the president and chief executive of the World Economic Forum said today that he would step down after a review into his past connections with Epstein. The organization is behind the annual meeting of executives and political leaders in Davos, Switzerland. It began the review earlier this month. Brenda has previously denied wrongdoing. Coming up, why big oil wants President Trump to stop his battle with the wind industry. That's after the break.

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Alex Osola (8:31)

We're exclusively reporting that pollution from US Power plants rose last year. It's a rare uptick in an otherwise long term downward trend. An environmental group, the Natural Resources Defense Council, conducted the analysis of data from the Environmental Protection Agency. The increase in emissions comes partly from power plants burning more coal for electricity. The Trump administration has pushed to use coal and rolled back Biden era climate regulations. The EPA says focusing on a single year of emissions data obscures a longer term decline. And while President Trump has promoted coal, he's been battling the wind industry. He says offshore wind farms like the one off the coast of Martha's Vineyard are ugly, expensive and destructive for wildlife. And he's blocked efforts to build new ones. Trump's actions have plunged the wind industry into turmoil, but now it's gaining a surprising ally, Big oil. Benoit Morin covers the oil and gas industry for the Journal and is here to tell us more. Benoit, why is the oil industry asking President Trump to say, stop this battle against offshore wind?

Oppenheimer Advertiser (9:31)

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Benoit Morin (9:31)

It's a sort of a surprising development. The short answer is that the oil and gas industry is desperate to get legislation passed to be able to speed up permits for energy infrastructure, and it really wants to build more pipelines. But as part of those negotiations, Democrats in the Senate have said, well, as long as Trump keeps going after offshore wind, we're freezing everything out. So the oil and gas industry is asking Trump essentially, hey, could you cool it down on offshore wind for a minute so we can get this legislation passed? You know, if you keep going after those guys, it's going to potentially backfire against us because we won't be able to build, you know, the projects that we want to build.

Alex Osola (10:14)

Why is this so important to the oil and gas industry? Like, what's at stake for them here?

Benoit Morin (10:19)

What's at stake is their ability to ship more of their products to new markets. And we're talking mostly about natural gas pipelines. Those have been blocked by green groups. Groups have become very good at using the courts to block those projects. And the oil and gas industry is very eager to reform those laws and the permitting process in general. And it's kind of a perfect moment for the industry because everyone's aligned on making permitting easier because of just this wave of energy demand the US Is facing. So it's really Trump that's the hold up here.

Alex Osola (10:55)

The White House says Trump's position is that wind farms are a liability that jeopardizes the safety of the American people. What is Trump saying?

Benoit Morin (11:03)

Trump has not shown any signs of wanting to concede anything. And I will note that Trump has been successful in holding wind projects hostage as it were, threatening to block them or outright blocking them, and in exchange getting, for instance, one natural gas pipeline pushed through regulators in New York State. So I think that's one of the ways that the administration is thinking about its leverage here.

Alex Osola (11:32)

That was WSJ reporter Benoit Morin. Thanks, Benoit.

Benoit Morin (11:35)

Thank you.

Alex Osola (11:41)

In US Markets, Nvidia's blockbuster quarter wasn't enough to reassure investors. It logged a jump in profit and record sales, but shares fell 5.5% today. That dragged on the NASDAQ, which dropped 1.2%. The S& P fell about half a percent while the Dow was flat. Stellantis is reporting an annual loss equivalent to more than $26 billion last year, reflecting big charges from its retreat from electric vehicles. Like other automakers, it's investing in hybrids and old school combustion engines again. And Stellantis expects to return to profit this year with help from relaunched cars like the Jeep Cherokee. And Walmart has agreed to pay $100 million to settle claims from the Federal Trade Commission that the retailer deceived delivery drivers about how much they could earn from pay and tips. The company said it valued its drivers and was improving transparency. The latest round of talks over Iran's nuclear program wrapped up today without a deal. Both sides are still far apart on key issues. The US Wants Iran to destroy its three main nuclear sites and send its enriched uranium to the US Officials also say a nuclear deal must last forever rather than have restrictions sunsetting over time. Iran objects to these demands. Officials say the U.S. and Iran would likely meet again for talks. President Trump has threatened to take military action if a deal isn't reached, and that's what's news for this Thursday afternoon. Today's show is produced by Pierre Biennime with supervising producer Tali Arbel. Alex I'm Alex Osola for the Wall Street Journal. We'll be back with a new show tomorrow morning. Thanks for listening.

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