College Rankings Part 3: Student Ability to Think

Summary

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WSJ Your Money Briefing

Episode: College Rankings Part 3: Student Ability to Think
Host: J.R. Whalen (Wall Street Journal)
Guest: Melissa Korn (Wall Street Journal reporter)
Date: September 29, 2017

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Episode Overview

This episode is the third part in a series exploring the Wall Street Journal/Times Higher Education College Rankings. The discussion centers on how colleges foster students’ abilities to think critically and engage intellectually—beyond mere post-graduation outcomes. The episode examines why engagement matters, how it's measured, and its connection to diversity, outcomes, and affordability.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Role of Engagement in College Rankings

• Engagement accounts for 20% of a school’s score in the WSJ/Times Higher Ed College Rankings.
• Engagement is measured by students’ classroom experiences, critical thinking development, and overall intellectual growth, not just outcomes like graduation rate or salary.
  • “It's an acknowledgement that what happens in college or how you measure kind of the value of college experience isn't just your salary at the time you graduate... but what happens inside classrooms, inside libraries.”
    — Melissa Korn [01:19]

Diversity Among Top-Engagement Schools

• Top schools for engagement include a range of institutions, from very small colleges to large universities. Several religious schools stand out, but there is no strict profile for success.
  • “It's actually a really broad mix of schools that top our charts… The only commonality between among some of them is that they're religious schools.”
    — Melissa Korn [01:45]

Critical Thinking and Employer Demands

• The need for critical thinking has become apparent as employers seek graduates who can do more than regurgitate facts; they want adaptable, analytical thinkers.
  • “A lot of employers say that they can teach somebody the real technical skills, but they want to be hiring people who can think critically.”
    — Melissa Korn [02:26]
• Engagement in the classroom gives students the skills to adapt and succeed in the workplace.

Diversity in Student Populations

• Colleges strive for diversity in gender, socioeconomic background, race, and ethnicity among students and faculty, which enriches class discussions and broadens perspectives.
  • “They want it in part because of optics… but also because they say that it really does add some depth to classroom conversations, pushes people out of their comfort zones…”
    — Melissa Korn [03:08]
• Public universities often excel at recruiting diverse students, partially because they serve local communities.
• Ironically, public universities working hardest to engage and support diverse students often have the fewest resources.

Affordability and Financial Aid

• Lower tuition at public schools supports diversity, but elite private schools often offer substantial aid, sometimes making them less expensive than publics for lower-income students.
  • “Some of the really elite private schools have so much financial aid available now that their net price, the out of pocket cost for students, is actually less than it would be at some publics.”
    — Melissa Korn [04:33]
• Example: At Stanford University, families earning under $65,000 pay nothing for tuition, room, and board.
  • “That's a significant amount of money that Stanford's putting forward to help those families.”
    — Melissa Korn [04:54]

Making Sense of Rankings for Prospective Students

• Rankings are a tool, not an answer; families should use them as a starting point, not the sole factor in deciding where a student should enroll.
  • “If a school is just boasting about that one number, that's not enough for a student or prospective student to make a decision on. And families…this is a launch point. This is a starting off point for families.”
    — Melissa Korn [06:03]
• Ultimately, choosing a college is both a student and a family decision, with significant financial and personal impact.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Are your assumptions being challenged? Are you inspired by your peers? That really matters in a student's intellectual maturation.”
  — Melissa Korn [01:19]
• “You often hear about critical thinking voids or gaps... employers want to see that students are actually learning things, not just learning rote memorization.”
  — Melissa Korn [02:26]
• “The public universities, the ones that are doing the most to engage, recruit and retain, these students have the fewest resources to do that.”
  — Melissa Korn [03:34]
• “It's absolutely important for any school to find a way to stand out… if a school can stand out and say, hey, our graduates get jobs… that's a really great thing for a school.”
  — Melissa Korn [06:03]

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Important Timestamps

• 00:33 — Introduction to the episode theme
• 01:19 — Why engagement matters in college experience
• 01:45 — Types of colleges leading in engagement scores
• 02:26 — The need for critical thinking and what employers are looking for
• 03:08 — How and why colleges are prioritizing diversity
• 03:34 — Resource challenges at public universities
• 04:33 — Private versus public school affordability, financial aid
• 04:54 — Stanford’s support for low-income students
• 06:03 — How colleges use rankings and how families should interpret them
• 06:56 — Final thoughts on the importance of family decisions and investment

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Summary Flow & Usefulness

The conversation moves from what college engagement means and why it matters for students’ intellectual development, to how schools foster critical thinking and diversity, to how affordability plays a role in access and outcomes. The language is accessible and insightful, rooted in Melissa Korn’s expertise and the WSJ’s data-driven perspective. This summary highlights the episode's guidance for families considering colleges, stressing the importance of engagement, diversity, and fit—beyond the numbers.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

This is yous Money Matters from the Wall Street Journal. Welcome to youo Money Matters. I'm J.R. whalen in New York. In part three of our look at the Wall Street Journal's Time Higher Education College rankings, we highlight how for students and families researching where to attend college, what happens in the classroom and is just as important as what happens when a student graduates and embarks on a career. The Wall Street Journal's Melissa Korn joins us to discuss. Melissa the Wall Street Journal and the Times Higher Education College rankings gave engagement 20% of a school's total score in the rankings. And that places a lot of importance on things like how students can take the ability to think and apply that to the postgraduate world.

[C]

Yeah. So it's an acknowledgement that what happens in college or how you measure kind of the value of college experience isn't just your salary at the time you graduate or even how many years it takes you to graduate, but what happens inside classrooms, inside libraries. So are your assumptions being challenged? Are you inspired by your peers? That really matters in a student's intellectual maturation.

[B]

And it's not just the big schools that succeed at doing this. Right.

[C]

Right. It's actually it's a really broad mix of schools that top our charts. The only commonality between among some of them is that they're religious schools. So you've got Dort College, which is a very small school, less than 1500 students in Iowa. And there at the top you've got Texas Christian University, Texas A and M, Brigham Young, which are all much larger institutions. So it really is a school by school thing. We can't just say just because a school is small they have better engagement scores or just because a school fits a certain profile.

[B]

Is this becoming a new area of competition among schools or is this becoming a need that's been exposed? As far as students being prepared to enter the outside world, I think it's

[C]

definitely a need that's been exposed in recent years. A lot of employers say that they can teach somebody the real technical skills, but they want to be hiring people who can think critically. You often hear about critical thinking voids or Gaps. So, yeah, employers want to see that students are actually learning things, not just learning rote memorization or studying for a test. And students, you know, they're paying big money, their families are paying big money. So while they want the employment outcomes, they also want to know that their time in school is well spent.

[B]

And when it comes to these students coming through the schools and going out to the real world, the one thing that you point out in your stories in the Wall Street Journal is that schools are looking for as diverse a population as possible.

[C]

Yeah. So schools want diversity in a bunch of different ways. They want gender, socioeconomic, racial and ethnic diversity among their students and among their faculty and staff as well. And the rankings actually measure some of that, the faculty diversity. And they want it in part because of optics. It looks good to have a student body that's reflective of the country at large or the at large, but also because they say that it really does add some depth to classroom conversations, pushes people out of their comfort zones when their roommate is somebody who comes from the other side of the tracks, things like that. And we found that public universities, frankly do a much better job of this. It's in part because they're drawing from their local communities. So urban schools, cities tend to be more diverse than rural farmlands. And so these graduates, these students, they'll come in from local area, they'll stay nearby afterwards too, which helps the local economy. The thing that's interesting is the public universities, the ones that are doing the most to engage, recruit and retain, these students have the fewest resources to do that. So you have students who are often first generation of their family to go to college, low income families, and they're going to these schools that can't support them academically or in other with other resources, the way that some of the really wealthy private schools could.

[B]

And the public schools, I guess there's a lower tuition there also, which might allow more diverse population to afford it.

[C]

So there is a lower sticker price. But some of the really elite private schools have so much financial aid available now that their net price, the out of pocket cost for students, is actually less than it would be at some publics.

[B]

You know, you talk about Stanford University in California, and they have an attractive program for students from families making under $65,000 a year.

[C]

Yeah. So students who come from really the lower income families under 65,000, they can end up paying nothing for tuition, room and board. That's a significant amount of money that Stanford's putting forward to help those families.

[B]

That's an enormous savings.

[C]

Yes, absolutely. It makes it an option for these families. And a lot of the Ivy League schools have similar financial aid programs that even if you're earning well into the six figures, you might not actually be on the hook for that much in terms of tuition and at some schools, room and board.

[B]

We're speaking to the Wall Street Journal's Melissa Korn about the Wall Street Journal Times Higher Education College Rankings. And you're listening to youo Money Matter. You're at the Wall Street Journal. Thanks for listening, everyone. So, Melissa, let's talk about these rankings as a whole. There's so much research available to students and families as far as where they're going to go to school and what city to go to school in and such. And there are thousands of universities and schools around the country. It must be important for these schools to rank high. Whether it's a list measuring diversity or measuring student to teacher ratio. Engagement, as we talked about, it's got to be important to them.

[C]

Yeah, it's absolutely important for any school to find a way to stand out. It is kind of a sea of colleges that when you look at their mission statements, things like that, a lot of them do look and sound very similar. So if a school can stand out and say, hey, our graduates get jobs or hey, here's proof that we are a diverse learning community or these days when the financial picture of colleges is in question on a lot of campuses, hey, we have the financial resources to continue to educate students going forward. That's a really great thing for a school. At the same time, if a school is just boasting about that one number, that's not enough for a student or prospective student to make a decision on. And families, as you know, as we say throughout the rankings articles in the Journal, this is a launch point. This is a starting off point for families. This is not the end all be all way to make a decision about a school.

[B]

And oftentimes it's a family decision as well as the student's decision as to where they're going to go.

[C]

Absolutely. It's a huge financial investment for everybody.

[B]

All right, Melissa Korn in our studio. She covers higher education for the Wall Street Journal, talking about the Wall Street Journal Times Higher Education college rankings. Melissa, thanks very much.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

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